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How to make my friend save himself ? Does therapy make you end toxic relationships?


PissOfMind

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I am terribly worried about my longtime friend who is in a relationship with one of the most toxic women I have ever met. My friend is the sweetest, the most loyal person ever and him being with such a toxic and negative woman saddens me deeply.

 

His girlfriend is apparently depressed and suffers from a BPD. Not only is she insecure, possessive and hysterical, but she is also generally disliked by people- she is aggressive, judgmental and loves proceeding into long, vitriolic rants about how she hates everybody, including herself LOL. At some point she even dumped my friend and got together with some random guy, only to start panicking, crying and begging my friend to take her back, which he reluctantly agreed to do. I was devastated to hear this news-I was pretty sure he would suffer again. Funnily enough, while they were apart, he started dating a girl who he had always had a crush on. I know this girl and she is a very attractive, positive, mature and intelligent woman who brought a lot of good into my friend's life. Once they got closer, my friend started enjoying life, laughing, travelling, meeting people again, finally having great sex (as he put it himself), and I was pretty sure they would end up together and he would finally experience a healthy,drama-free relationship based on trust and friendship. When things became serious, his ex gf rushed back and basically pressurized him into accepting her back, providing him with a sob story of her latest emotional problems and family issues. I could not comprehend why he changed the good for the bad, but since he hoped that things would be different this time,I decided that I could only support him as a friend. So here they are now, together again- she is constantly struggling with her own demons, throwing tantrums and beating the sh**t out of him emotionally; he is unhappy and regretful about what he did. He says he misses the girl he dated, but at the same time he wants to help his girlfriend or actually he is scared to leave her. He is aware of the fact that he is playing a knight in shining armour who wants to save the whole world and his depressed and anxious gf, and says he wants to deal with his own issues which make them stay and sacrifice his happiness in the name of loyalty, but at the same time he says he feels guilty, powerless and trapped, or maybe „deep inside he feels there is still hope to save the relationship”.

 

I managed to convince him to start his own therapy, which he did some time ago, but I am nor sure if it helps him. I know that it is a long process and I reckon that him seeing a therapist is a huge success, but he has become sadder than ever, he doesn’t really want to speak to anybody. I hardly ever speak to him, he became isolated, but claims „he will be fine”. I don’t want him to think that I want to persuade him into doing anything, and I am not arrogant enough to tell him that I know what is better for him. What I know for sure, however, is that he is not that open and joyous person I used to know, and I wish he found the courage to end things before his gf ruins his life and his mental health. I dread the thought of him being convinced by his therapist to continue fighting for the relationship. Have you ever decided to seek professional help to find strength to end a toxic relationship? Any success stories? How did you manage to help your friends get back to their senses?

Edited by PissOfMind
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POM, you're describing a guy who walks right on past all the emotionally available women (BORING!) until he finds one who is emotionally unavailable and desperately needs him. It therefore sounds like your efforts to help him may be just as futile as his doomed efforts to help his BPDer GF.

 

Yet, if you nonetheless are determined to do something -- so as not to leave any stone unturned -- I suggest you do what I've done in similar situations: give him a copy of Stop Walking on Eggshells or a copy of I Hate You, Don't Leave Me! They are the two best selling BPD books that are targeted to the abused partners.

 

Alternatively, you could send him links to three online articles that may help. Two of them are Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with BPD (Article 9 at BPDfamily) and Leaving a Partner with BPD (Article 10). The third article is the best explanation I have found of how excessive caregivers (like your friend and me) get to be this way during our childhoods. It is Shari Schreiber's blog article at Do You Love to be Needed, or Need to be Loved?. Schreiber argues that, due to childhood dynamics with our parents, our desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are).

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Thank you so much, Downtown, for the links you shared. Did these articles help you? You said you had been a rescuer yourself and you did not pay attention to available women. Has it changed in any way? What did you do (or are still doing) to help yourself? Was there anyone that helped you become aware of your issues and deal with them?

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Yes, POM, those articles did help me. Granted, I don't like Schreiber's view of BPDers because she confuses them with narcissists and sociopaths -- thus mistakenly describing BPDers as spiders who spin webs to trap you in. I nonetheless find her view of us excessive caregivers as insightful.

 

At to gaining insight into my role of being an excessive caregiver, what helped me the most was understanding the role played by my BPDer exW. We caregivers have such weak personal boundaries, and such strong empathy, that we easily become enmeshed with our partner. We thus have great difficulty in telling where OUR problems stop and those of our partners begin. Hence, by learning about my exW's contribution to the toxicity, I was able -- through subtraction -- to clearly see my contribution to the toxic marriage (i.e., my enabling behavior and how it was harming her, not helping her).

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My friend’s awareness of how toxic his relationship is is quite big, which gives me hope for his recovery. He was also the first to call himself a savior and Florence Nightingale. What I find disturbing, though, is his assumption that „perhaps he needs to fall apart completely in order to be able to make that final decision and walk away”. Did you also need that tipping point to end the relationship? I think it would be outright cruel and irresponsible of me as his friend, to stand back and watch him wait for the worst to happen, whatever this might be. Still, I’ve also been told that maybe I should let him experience the worst as some people need to get their asses kicked properly to get back to their senses. I just don’t want him to get irreparably broken, though.

 

What is astonishing to me too, is that he claims that he still has a lot of feelings for that girl he dated and he sometimes says that he wishes he had not missed the chance he had. As far as I know, they split up on friendly terms, with that girl knowing about his issues and letting him go and wishing him well. They maintain low but friendly contact, which probably means that he still has a chance to win her back and try to be happy, but he chooses to flog himself in that relationship instead. I know this is my perspective, a healthy person’s perspective, and I also know that ending a relationship is never an easy thing,let alone ending a relationship with a BPD person. Still, I guess that making some decisions should be easier for him in the circumstances where he can choose between a mess and a chance to grow as a man and a person. Or maybe I just underestimate the level of masochism that he finds enjoyable?

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He is one of those guys who feels like more of a man if a woman makes him feel needed. It's certainly a double-edged sword since some people are not above faking needing them just to keep them involved. I've noticed over my many years that quite a few men who cheat claim to have a wife at home who needs him or is fragile or would harm herself if he left. So they cheat because they figure the woman is that desperate they can do whatever they want. Never mind that if she really is fragile, the emotional toll that cheating will take on her.

 

He's already lucid that he likes playing the white knight, but you might gently remind him that he's not really helping her if he hasn't been able to get her to where she's so fragile he's afraid to leave her. Helping her would be getting her to a shrink and putting her on her own two feet. He gets something out of this, though, or he wouldn't do it. Maybe he feels inferior to independent stable women or maybe he feels he has no power with them or isn't physically attracted. Who knows. But to move past it, he's probably going to have to let it take him down to the bottom of the barrel to decide this isn't what he wants after all. I sympathize because I hate it when friends of mine have crazy spouses.

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What I find disturbing, though, is his assumption that „perhaps he needs to fall apart completely in order to be able to make that final decision and walk away”. Did you also need that tipping point to end the relationship?
No, I never needed that tipping point because I did not feel that way. What I can say, however, is that -- to caregivers like your friend and me -- the notion of walking away from a sick loved one is anathema. It goes against our sense of values, our religion, our family training -- indeed, against every fiber of our being.

 

Given this situation, there are only two things that will allow him to break free (IME). One is to experience righteous anger at the way he is being abused (i.e., to start loving himself as much as he loves her). The other is to realize that -- by staying with a BPDer -- he is actually harming her, because his enabling behavior is destroying her opportunities to have to confront her issues and learn how to manage them. If he is reluctant to believe that his behavior is "enabling" her bad behavior, simply remind him that -- if it were not -- there is no way a BPDer would tolerate his continued presence in the relationship.

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We have already had at least a few conversations about how his mom’s alcoholism turned him into a "parentified kid" and savior and about how he tries to recreate the pattern with his current gf. As I’ve said, he is well aware of how much his unresolved childhood issues affect his choices, which makes him turn down a decent girl, for instance. His awareness doesn't make him angry, though. How much time does it take for a man like him to get pissed off, if even her leaving him for a random guy didn’t make him see the light? All the publications you have posted, as well as shrink4men website are immensely helpful and I will definitely share them with him, but as you said yourself, just reading stuff might not be enough. It can reassure him, but it won't make him make that decision at last.

 

I believe that speeding things up is crucial since my friend sometimes says things like „I’d probably have to blow my brains off to find peace”. It literally sends shvers down my spine and I am seriously afraid he is suicidal. He is the type that never complains, his gf does all the work in this respect. Needless to say, those who say least are the first to fall apart…

 

Another problem of his is the fact he has never been the first to break up with a woman. He is such a good guy always hoping for things to get better...and always getting burnt. Sometimes I wish I could tell him he is a complete pu**y to let others treat him like that, but what I feel now is actually sympathy, not anger. Your words about „breaking up as something which is against your values” resonated with me- it's definitely unusual for him to treat his well-being as a priority.

 

How long did your relationship last before you decided to call it quits? Did you see a therapist? And do you now find available women attractive? :)

Edited by PissOfMind
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I dread the thought of him being convinced by his therapist to continue fighting for the relationship. Have you ever decided to seek professional help to find strength to end a toxic relationship? Any success stories? How did you manage to help your friends get back to their senses?

 

One thing we caregiver personalities learn over time is to avoid getting wound up in other people's stuff, like this friend. They make their own choices. Sure, be a friend and love them as a friend but don't invest personal emotions and time into their milieu with others. Set limits.

 

Professional therapy success depends IMO upon the competency of the therapist, the chosen therapy for the issue and the willingness of the person in therapy to do the work and own their behaviors and choices. I had MC while caregiving (not for my wife) and IMO the professional therapy with a psychologist was invaluable, mainly in separating out issues into discrete chunks and working those, as well as owning behaviors and choices, deciding on boundaries and moving on.

 

However, something I've noted of late is a propensity to fall to far to the other side, to disconnect from others and, sure, talk the talk, but without much, or any, emotional content, more like a professional therapist than intimate and loving friend. That's been on my mind lately. No panacea I guess.

 

My project of late has been a friend of 20 years or so who, well, drinks a lot. She's married and sometimes goes into inappropriate territory with me but, having lost another close friend of many years, actually my exW's best female friend, to alcoholism, the issue is on my mind. How do I convince her to save herself so as not to end up dead at 50? Difficult choice. Balancing appropriate intimacy boundaries with emotional investment is difficult too. IME, very little about interpersonal relationships is easy. Heh, maybe it is, but not for me :D

 

Overall, I'd focus on support for your friend and offer up resources that could help them make choices which are healthy for them. Ultimately, it's up to them. You know them best and what mix of care and 'tough love' works in your friendship.

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How long did your relationship last before you decided to call it quits?
I didn't call it quits because I did not know what I was dealing with. Like most caregivers, I hung on to the marriage for 15 years and would have stayed forever if my exW had not left me. By "left me," I mean she threw a temper tantrum, chased me room to room, and -- after I pushed her away from a bedroom door she was destroying -- she called the police and had me thrown into jail for "brutalizing her." Because it was early on Saturday morning, I was in jail for 3 days before I could go before a judge in arraignment. By then, she had obtained a R/O barring me from returning to my own home for the next 18 months (the time it takes to get a D in this State). In hindsight, it was one of the best things to ever happen to me.

 

Did you see a therapist?
I spent a small fortune taking her to six different psychologists in weekly visits for 15 years. NONE of them would tell me what her disorder was. The last one, which we both saw for 5 years of weekly visits, would always say "I don't believe labels are useful." At my very last meeting with her, that psychologist reluctantly admitted that my exW has a personality disorder but refused to say which one.

 

I've since learned that therapists generally are loath to tell a BPDer (much less tell her H or her insurance company) the name of this disorder, so as to protect that client. If you're interested, I explain this at Loath to Diagnose BPD. This is why I encourage anyone who is seeing strong BPD warning signs to see their own psychologist -- for a visit or two all by themselves -- to obtain a candid professional opinion. That way, you are ensured the psychologist is ethically bound to protect only YOUR best interest, not that of your potentially-BPDer partner.

 

And do you now find available women attractive?
Yes, but like most men stumbling out of a toxic relationship with a BPDer, I've had to work on lowering my expectations to realistic levels. Once you've spent time with a BPDer, you will miss all the fireworks and adoration that BPDers give you coming out the gate, during the first week or two. It takes some adjustment to get used to not being lauded as the White Knight who has arrived to rescue someone. That was a very heady experience.
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Thank you all for your insightful comments.

 

My friend seems to know what he is dealing with, but since he has problems leaving people, I am afraid he is going to wait for the worst or rather for her leaving him in some outrageous manner that is typical of her. When she broke up with him last time,I was sure that would be the end of it. The way in which she did it should have made him immune to any remorse tricks she would later pull on him. But he succumbed again. I have no idea what kind of a nightmare he would have to go through to stop playing an armchair psychologist.

 

Theoretically, since in the meantime he experienced a positive relationship with another woman, which he himself called a refreshing change after a constant fight and toxicity, he should be even more determined to get out of the situation which makes him unhappy. Or is it just my naive idea?

 

I find it so difficult to understand him that sometimes I really wish I didn't give a damn and I wish I could just leave him with that whole mess and told him to get back when he gets his sh**t together. I have already applied some tough love which Carhill recommended, and just stopped contacting him on a regular basis, which I have always done. I only make sure he still visits his therapist. After all, it’s all I can do right now, isn’t it?

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Funnily enough, while they were apart, he started dating a girl who he had always had a crush on. I know this girl and she is a very attractive, positive, mature and intelligent woman who brought a lot of good into my friend's life. Once they got closer, my friend started enjoying life, laughing, travelling, meeting people again, finally having great sex (as he put it himself), and I was pretty sure they would end up together and he would finally experience a healthy,drama-free relationship based on trust and friendship.

 

***THIS IS WHEN YOUR FRIEND MADE A CHOICE***

 

When things became serious, his ex gf rushed back and basically pressurized him into accepting her back, providing him with a sob story of her latest emotional problems and family issues. I could not comprehend why he changed the good for the bad, but since he hoped that things would be different this time,I decided that I could only support him as a friend. So here they are now, together again- she is constantly struggling with her own demons, throwing tantrums and beating the sh**t out of him emotionally; he is unhappy and regretful about what he did.

 

You have to understand that your friend is making a choice, there is something damaged or incomplete in him.

 

Getting therapy is probably the best thing that he can do.

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