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MEN: Can you tell me why a guy is like this???


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Old 20th March 2004, 1:57 PM   #1
befuddled11
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Question MEN: Can you tell me why a guy is like this???

Brief history. I'm in my mid 30s, so is he. We were in a relationship for a few months, I ended it this past December because it was becoming more apparent to me that although we had a lot of things in common, we had a LOT of *critical* things that were diametrically different. NAMELY: His constant inappropriate need to (often out of the blue) give me graphic details about his past sexual experiences, threesomes, etc.....and his consistently "crude" and immature way of speaking about sex (things like "yeah, I once BANGED this chick" or "I nailed this chick once"). To him, sex was about being as "nasty" and aggressive as possible.....it was obvious he had no concept whatsoever, about "love" in sex..or intimacy or closeness..it was all just about being down and dirty. This is a guy who said that the best gift his "future wife" could give him, would be for her to bring home one of her girlfriends on his "birthday", so that he could screw her.

So, to make a long story short, I realized fully that there was no point continuing the relationship.....I'm looking for something long term that could lead to marriage..with someone who has similar views and values and morals. This is also the guy who in the 3 months we were together, never ONCE took me out anywhere. He was always content to just "hang out" at each other's house and be slugs while watching TV (I didn't get into a relationship to be a couch potato).

So we've had periodic contact since then.....usually initiated by him. At one point a couple of months ago, I agreed with his suggestion for us to "be friends." He's a funny person and our personalities are a lot alike.....we have "fun" together.....and I'd missed that.

But on 2 occasions, he just couldn't respect my clear expression of us being "just friends"......during our phone conversations, he'd be his old obnoxious self and he'd start with the "why don't I come over there and we can have sex?" ....or him turning a totally platonic conversation (about home renovations, the weather, our families, our pets) into crude sex talk. I even TOLD HIM to please knock it off....that no, I'm not the "friends with benefits" kind of woman......and let's cut the sex talk ......

The last time he did this, I had made up my mind to just write him off as a friend because it seemed he just couldn't respect me.

Well he's contacted me lately....he phoned me yesterday.

Now let me say this......I miss the "Friendship" part of our relationship..........he's really a fun guy with a great sense of humour, very similar to mine. He's very down to earth and we both feel like we could tell the other anything........like we've known each other forever. I WISH we could just have a good strong FRIENDSHIP.

So he calls to wish me a belated Happy St Patrick's day. He tells me about work, asks how work is going for me, we chit chat.......he tells me that he's missed me. But before long, the conversation turns to sex (at his doing). DAMN!!!!

He asks me how long it's been since I had sex, says "probably the last time was with me"..then he proceeds to go on about how I really just need to go out, get drunk and get laid.......how "fun" that would be, that that's "what I need." I get really tired of trying to tell this goof that I'm not that kind of person......I've never had a one night stand, I'm not into casual sex, and I sure as hell am past the days of going out to a stinking bar and getting drunk.

He then tells me, "you're weird".....meaning, I'm "weird" because I haven't had sex for a few months and I have no desire to just "let loose" and go get "laid." I tell him I couldn't care less about sex at this time, I'm not in a relationship with anyone, my life is busy and it's not even a consideration. Again, he tells me I'm "weird."

He then tells me that there's (3) reasons that he's phoned me......

1) That he doesn't know "why" but he feels that we're going to be in each other's lives forever.....that there has to be a "reason" that despite having broken up, we still communicate.......that he's never maintained any contact with an "ex" before and he strongly believes there's "some reason" that with me, he still wants to.

2) He tells me I'm a really fun person, a great sense of humour, he enjoys talking to me on the phone, how we're a lot alike and he just has a lot of fun talking to me.

3) (sorry, this is going to be graphic) That I'm "hot" and he misses my "a$$" and boobs and he still can't remember the time I gave him a BJ that "blew his mind" and then he proceeds to go on about this particular BJ. Then he jokingly tells me what *I* really need is for him to "do me." And how he's had "hundreds of blowjobs" but that one he'll never forget.

You know, when he said the last bit, I was hurt (when I guess I should have been flattered)...because of all the things he could "remember me" for.....like my kindness to him, or how when he was tired after a long day at work, I'd give him a shoulder massage, or how I'd make a great dinner that he'd talk about for days, or how whenever I went to visit him, I'd always bring him something that was his "favorite" (pop, chips, special coffee, etc)....or how I made him laugh, etc. All he remembers me for is a stupid BJ. Wow, what a legacy to leave.

He knows knows knows how I feel about the "friends with benefits" thing. I have NO NO NO desire in the world to ever sleep with him again. I JUST WANT TO BE FRIENDS, that is all. I say or do NOTHING to give him mixed messages or lead him on...I don't talk flirtatiously to him. I have been as clear as glass that I want to be friends and all this "sex talk" crap is inappropriate now........and that if he wants to have me in his life, it will only be as friends..and to be friends, I don't want to hear his sh*t about wanting to "screw me" or asking me if there's anyway I'd give him a BJ.

BUT HE DOES NOT GET IT !!

He obviously doesn't respect me. Or does he think that he'll somehow wear me down?

How can a guy be so stupid ? If he just wants to get 'laid', he could easily accomplish that. He's a very good looking guy, he could "pick up any chick" he wanted to.........but he KNOWS I'm not like that.......yet he still keeps trying to come back and get me to change my mind.

He even strangely, started talking yesterday about marriage. And he was asking me if I'm dating anyone, or have I, since him. I told him that I'm taking a break from it because I'm tired of the BS......and that yes I do want to find the guy I'm meant to be with, to marry....but that I'm too frustrated with all the "crap" you have to go through to MAYBE get to that place.

He then started "reminding me" what a good catch he is.....how he's got a great job, isn't hard to look at, has a good sense of humour.....that his only flaw is that he's a "pervert" (his word).

He's grossing me out, his blatant and continued disrespect for my beliefs and morals and convictions.........by calling me "weird" because I'm not a whore, when he knew from before the very first time that we went out on a date, that I have respect for myself and I'm not into casual sex.

Why would a guy behave like this? I get a sense that he misses me and wishes we could be together again........but all he's doing is turning me off, more and more and more.....so that i don't even want to think of a friendship with him, because he just doesn't seem capable of it.

Any guy care to offer some insight on why he's like this?

And for the record, when I ended things with him, even though I initiated it, he didn't seem to mind that much.....it's not like I broke his heart (not that I'm aware of)....he never tried to get me back then, just agreed that we were finding out how different we were.

Thanks (sorry for the length)
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Old 20th March 2004, 2:11 PM   #2
yes
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um i'm a girl but...

i get the impression that he's like a naughty school boy who enjoys bugging the prude. do you get the picture? the more you talk about morals and love and respect, the more he feels he can get a reaction by being nasty about it. the more she says 'leave me alone, u'r such an idiot', the more he feels like running up to her and shaking that dead snake in her face.

so i think the only way for you to flip the script is to drop the talk of morals,respect,etc and play along with his sick jokes - tell him all about what a great one-night stand you had (use your imagination!) or something, then say you have to go so that he doesn't get a chance to figure out if you were for real.

the goal being - make it NOT fun for him to bug you with the nasty talk. see what happens then.

my 2c,
-yes
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Old 20th March 2004, 2:47 PM   #3
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Befuddled

You continually reject my suggestions on this, but he is behaving EXACTLY like the two ADD guys I took up with and NOTHING like any other man I've ever known.

If you refuse to believe he's ADD, at least comprehend that this guy has ALL the social skills issues that people with ADD can have. He doesn't 'get' that he's behaving inappropriately. He fails to understand that all his sexual references are off-putting. He won't stop doing something that bugs you when you request it. This is life with an ADDer.

This is NOT a 'guy' thing. This is a social skills impairment thing. And yes, people with these problems can also be fun, etc. but this focus on things sexual is very, very common.

He's grossing me out, his blatant and continued disrespect for my beliefs and morals and convictions.........by calling me "weird" because I'm not a whore, when he knew from before the very first time that we went out on a date, that I have respect for myself and I'm not into casual sex.

Read my post on expectations. You keep expecting him to be able to change and act 'normal'. He cannot. First, he'd need to acknowledge it's a problem, then he might even need meds, then he'd need social skills coaching. It does exist and people have success with it, if they want to learn.

You continually disappoint yourself because you expect him to be something he's not capable of being - at least at this point. This is how this guy is - if you want him around, you'll have to get used to it.
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Old 20th March 2004, 2:51 PM   #4
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I understand your point....

The thing is, and I guess I didn't explain it very well, when he breaks off into his nasty-talk, I really DON'T break into some speech about morals and values and things of that nature. I see no need to, he knows me well enough by now, who I am and what I'm about. I see no need to "defend" why I'm not into being the "ho" that he thinks I should be. I am secure with my values and morals and I've never been one to defend myself in this way. What for?

When the conversation turns from something inane and platonic, to his abruptly changing it to "sex" and blurting out something like, "so when's the last time you got laid?" I just very calmly try to blow him off.....I surely DON'T get all uptight. His kind of talk doesn't upset me......it doesn't get me all flustered........I generally just roll my eyes and think to myself, "god, what a dipsh*t."

For me to go along with his "talk", that would only get him going more. If I was to play along and say something like, "yeah, I've had tons of one night stands lately, yeah baby, they were great".....he'd be all revved up and wanting to talk about sex and smut even more.

I'm definitely not a prude, I just have respect for my body and I'm not into STDs and getting knocked up by some one night stand......I'm looking for something "meaningful", not 'meaningless.' Sex to me is great when it's within the confines of a satisfying, loving, mutually respectful relationship. I've never had even an inkling of a desire to go out and get myself "picked up", just to have casual sex. Ugh. Yuck. Blech. That's just not for me, and at 36, I'm not going to be changing my stance on this.

There was one time a few months ago, he brought up the topic of masturbation. I responded very matter of factly about it........and all that did was get him going, him asking me for detailed information on my "practices" and then him offering to "come over there right now and eat you out."

SO you see, playing along, no matter how ridiculous the things I say are, they'd only serve to provoke his crudeness and obsession with talking smut.

You know, if he does miss me, and miss me in his life (like he does lead me to believe).....and he's trying to see if I'd change my mind and want to rekindle something with him.....then he's sure going about it the wrong way. You'd think he'd be respectful in the way he talks....and maybe suggest taking me out for dinner or trying to "woo" me.....not talk like some crude punk, who calls me "weird" because I haven't had sex in 4 months and have absolutely no desire to "go out and get drunk and get picked up."

He was also rude to me, by calling me a "loser" because of the fact that I don't go out very much. This is highly ironic, coming from a guy who, when I was with him, had no friends and never went out...except for bumming around at IKEA or Home Depot with his brother, during the day.............This is a guy who told me many times that he hated the bars, barely drank anymore (as compared to when he was in his 20s) because he couldn't stand to spend the next day being hungover and feeling like crap and wasting a whole day.

I work all week, I work hard, and by the time I get home from work, I have only a few hours to myself to unwind and relax before I have to hit the hay because I get up at 5am. I live outside of the city, as he knows, and I don't "go out" during the week. On the weekend, which goes by so quickly, I do the usual housework, laundry, shopping, things around the house, visit family sort of thing. I'm happy and content with this. I don't have any single friends....my coworkers are all middle aged and married, most with grandchildren. I don't need to be out "partying" all weekend to be happy in life. That's not my thing. Ironically, when he met me, he couldn't stop telling me how "cool" it was that he and I were a lot alike. Both more "homebodies" and content to spend time at home.....versus being the type to go out drinking and p*ssing the weekend away.

Now yesterday he asked me when the last time was that I went out. I said it had been a while. He then laughed and said to me, "you loser.....what,you just work and come home and feed the cats and go to bed, that's all you do?"

I guess from writing all of this, I see he's just a rude, hypocritical, disrespectful punk who really doesn't deserve my friendship.
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Old 20th March 2004, 2:56 PM   #5
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I see no need to, he knows me well enough by now, who I am and what I'm about. I see no need to "defend" why I'm not into being the "ho" that he thinks I should be. I am secure with my values and morals and I've never been one to defend myself in this way. What for?

He doesn't know you well. I am failing at explaining this to you, obviously. In your mind, he knows that what he's doing and saying bugs you and he still does it. That is NOT the case. He does NOT UNDERSTAND that it bugs you or why. He does not GET IT. At all.

I guess from writing all of this, I see he's just a rude, hypocritical, disrespectful punk who really doesn't deserve my friendship

No. He is not. He is simply completely oblivious to the fact that what he is doing is distasteful. This is why people with ADD are called 'stupid' and 'selfish'. They are not; the way we learn social skills is not a way people with ADD or other similar disorders (he could have a touch of autism or even Asperger's) learn. They do not absorb social skills 'rules' the way we do and their brains do not work the same.

You persist in believing that he understands the inappropirateness of his behaviour and chooses it anyway. He does NOT UNDERSTAND. Because that sort of thing doesn't bother him, he does not understand in any way why it might bother someone else. They have trouble with empathy; seeing from someone else's point of view. So he cannot see his behaviour from your eyes, he can only see it the way he sees it, that it's fun and cute. Because he thinks it's fun and cute, he utterly is unable to understand that anybody else would not think the same thing. That concept is lacking in his construct.

Last edited by moimeme; 20th March 2004 at 2:58 PM..
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Old 20th March 2004, 3:03 PM   #6
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Befuddled,

This guy is totally disrespecting, and he's seeing how far he can push you. He continues to engage in the same topic of conversation that made you break up with him. He's playing serious head games. I don't know about him having ADD or anything, but he's definitely playing games. He's crossing your boundaries, actually. You want friendship, but he's walking all over it.

I would flat out say, "look, I broke it off with you because of your attitude towards sex. Your idea of sex and mine are completely opposite. I realized I couldn't change the way you view it, and you aren't going to change my view on it. I thought we could be friends, and you know that us EVER having anything sexual as friends is off limits with me, yet you continue to try. If you can't knock it off with that, then we cannot and won't be friends." It's THAT simple. Draw your line in the sand and stay on it. If he crosses that line again after you've made it clear to him, then avoid him. He'll get THAT message then, and he'll just have to live with it.
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Old 20th March 2004, 3:05 PM   #7
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um

does it really matter what the reason is? if his behaviour isn't acceptable to you, simply cut off all contact and move on.


now... why don't you go out more? NOT to bars... but to, say, dances? (ballroom dancing?), or perhaps art exhibitions? ... join a class or a club? I realize that you job is exhausting, but i think you have much better chances of meeting someone you like by getting out and meeting people just for the heck of it. (as far as i get it, you've been doing the online dating thing a lot, and continuously getting burned by it).

this is going off on a tangent, but i think you'd agree that it's best to let relationships develop gradually - not "hello, my name is X, let's go on a date"; but slowly getting to know the person, without any pressures, with a chance to get to know them before you decide whether or not you want to go on a date.

my 2c,
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Old 20th March 2004, 3:19 PM   #8
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He's playing serious head games. I don't know about him having ADD or anything, but he's definitely playing games. He's crossing your boundaries, actually

No. He doesn't understand boundaries. He's like a North American in Saudi Arabia. North American sits at a coffee shop, crosses his legs 'man-style' with the sole of his shoe pointed at a Saudi Arabian. Saudi Arabian flips out on him. North American has no idea why Saudi Arabian is having a fit. In North America, it's fine for a guy to sit that way. North American is working from within his context, which is that sitting with one's foot pointing at somebody is nothing to worry about. However, in Saudi Arabia, that is a huge insult.

This guy does not live on our planet, socially speaking. If he understood where the boundaries are (he doesn't), he wouldn't cross them. He doesn't even understand that there are boundaries.
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Old 20th March 2004, 3:21 PM   #9
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does it really matter what the reason is?

Yes, yes, because right now she thinks he is deliberately being insulting and rude and this is making her angry. Hopefully, if she understands that this behaviour is not deliberate, the anger will subside and turn to compassion. She doesn't have to keep company with him, but at least she won't get an ulcer over it because she'll feel sorry for the poor fellow rather than furious and disgusted.

Bottom line - he can't help it. Don't feel insulted by it or hurt by it. It's completely inadvertent.
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Old 20th March 2004, 3:28 PM   #10
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Re: um

Quote:
Originally posted by yes


now... why don't you go out more? NOT to bars... but to, say, dances? (ballroom dancing?), or perhaps art exhibitions? ... join a class or a club? I realize that you job is exhausting, but i think you have much better chances of meeting someone you like by getting out and meeting people just for the heck of it. (as far as i get it, you've been doing the online dating thing a lot, and continuously getting burned by it).
But the point is, it's none of his BUSINESS whether I go out or not. And it's freakin' ironic that he'd even bring it up, considering the entire time we dated/were in a relationship, he NEVER wanted to go out anywhere...no matter how much I asked. All he wanted to do was be a lounge lizard, sack out on the couch and watch crap on TV, with him falling asleep and snoring his head off before long. That's ALL he ever wanted to do. I'd suggest we go to a movie, he was never interested. I'd suggest we go into the city and go for coffee. Not interested. I'd suggest we go for a drive to the mountains (only an hour from here). Not interested. I'd suggest we go to the local pub for a drink and some appetizers and play darts or NTN Trivia...NOT INTERESTED. We were like 2 old bumps on a log...like some old married couple who was content to fall asleep on the couch by 9pm, then toddle off to bed.

All he ever wanted to do was sit around in his sweats and watch videos or TV. It drove me nuts!

But now HE'S the one to mock ME for not being the social butterfly?

He was the one who used to tell me all the time, "befuddled, I really think you're cool...I like how we can just be ourselves and hang out......be comfortable in our sweats and just watch a movie, and not having to "go out." But now he's seen the light? Now he's apparently out at the bar a lot (and some of the sketchiest bars in the city...the places were people get stabbed)....a place he swore he'd never step foot into again.....claiming he didn't like to drink, didn't like the "bar scene"..had outgrown that years ago. Now suddenly, in 4 months, he's this newly converted bar-fly and he's putting me down because I have better things to do with my time and money than drink and drive (he lives out of town, too.....and there's no way he cabs it home after drinking......he obviously drinks and drives), get p*ssed and go to some meat market? HAHA.

Looking at it more analytically, the only reason he was mocking me was because he was hoping I'd be into going out with him to "get drunk"....so that I'd be into "loosening up and having sex with him"......because the talk about me being a loser who doesn't go out came after he gave me this big long condescending speech about how I just need to go out to a bar, get drunk and take some guy home and "f*ck his brains out."

I am very content with my life. Whether I go out or not isn't anyone's business. I'm surely not a hermit, but until the weather's warmer and there's more to do, I have a list of a hundred things I need to get done.....and setting foot in a bar and then having to figure out how I'm going to get back home (I live way outside of the city), that's not on my list.

So his "concern" for my not "doing things" wasn't really about that...it was more or less just to see if I'd be into going out and getting drunk with him, so that he could get me into bed. That's all it was about. I guess he thought that mocking me would persuade me to do what he wanted. It surely wasn't a genuine concern for my social life. LMAO!

I'm not on some mad hunt to meet someone. At this time, I couldn't really care less. I don't "need" a man in my life to be happy. I'm not actively looking. I'm focusing on my career and saving some money and perhaps making a type of career change......I'm happy where I'm at. I've never been happier. As long as I'm happy and feel fulfilled, why would I care what others think? I have no complaints :-)
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Old 20th March 2004, 3:35 PM   #11
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Befuddled

When people do things, you have two choices; you can analyze them, make assumptions about the causes of their behaviour, and choose an assumption which upsets you - whether or not it reflects reality.

Or, you can decide to choose an explanation which will not upset you.

Your elabourate scenario was an example of the former. Now, you get to be mad at him for trying to get you drunk, too.

Fine, if you like to live that way.

I have offered you the most likely and simplest explanation - the guy doesn't get it.

If he has social skills issues, he certainly isn't devious enough to construct that elabourate means of goading you that you just outlined. He just does not get it and says dumb things because he's no good at understanding what's going on or analyzing it or anything.

You seem to be heavily invested in casting the worst possible causes around his behaviour - even though you can't possibly be inside his head to know what he's thinking. Then, when you have made him out to be a total villain, you get to be angry with him and furious at him even though you have no proof that he is thinking what you seem to think he is thinking.

I really don't see how this is good for you or him. The guy's socially inept. For that reason, he's not a good match for you. Is there any reason this explanation won't suffice? Do you need to be angry at him?
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Old 20th March 2004, 3:43 PM   #12
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oh god

moimeme, it COULD be ADD, but it also could be NOT that. you have no way of knowing for sure, correct? for some reason, he's being disrespectful. if somebody's disrespectful towards me, i don't really bother to think WHY (aside from whether it's my fault, somehow) - i just get away and say 'yikes, i don't like that person'.


befuddled, it's none of his business whether or not you go out - my advice was simply that: my advice to you. because when i read the description of your lifestyle, i thought - boy, why doesn't she get out there more?...

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Old 20th March 2004, 3:47 PM   #13
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Moimeme....

Quote:
Originally posted by moimeme
does it really matter what the reason is?

Yes, yes, because right now she thinks he is deliberately being insulting and rude and this is making her angry. Hopefully, if she understands that this behaviour is not deliberate, the anger will subside and turn to compassion. She doesn't have to keep company with him, but at least she won't get an ulcer over it because she'll feel sorry for the poor fellow rather than furious and disgusted.

Bottom line - he can't help it. Don't feel insulted by it or hurt by it. It's completely inadvertent.
But what I don't get, Moimeme, is the fact that over time, he's getting worse. He was never this crude or crass even during the most difficult time of our relationship. Never then, even when we were very open and honest and had very good communication, would he have been so crude.......never then, would he have called me up (me being his girlfriend) and said, "hey befuddled, I want to come over and eat you out." But now that we're not together, he's this way..which is why I don't understand it.

He admits he's a "pervert" but even like on the phone yesterday (and in a recent email), he tries to tell me what a great catch he is......."I clean up nice, I'm not hard to look at, I make 90K a year, I'm safe to take around the parents, I'm independent, I'd make a good husband and father"..........it's like he's trying to point out to me that I should give him another chance, but then in the next breath he's talking to me like I'm nothing but a vagina. In fact, he was going on and on about what a "tight p*ssy" I have....and then asking me how I'd rate his pecker in terms of size.

I don't know, maybe he's on drugs too. He was never this bad when we were together.....and if there was ever a time for him to have been so "open", I could have seen it being then......because we did have very very frank, open discussions about sex and stuff...........but knowing that our differences in this area is what caused our relationship to end, I just can't understand his obsession to keep it up...and to be even worse.

Maybe he just gets a real kick out of trying to gross me out. Maybe it's like Yes said.

Maybe he does have ADD, I don't know. But regardless, I just can't have someone like this in my life, I guess......because I only want a friendship and I don't sit around with male friends listening to them tell me how they'd want to "eat me out." Yuck.

He's obviously not going to change, so I will just have to give up and move on. I want a friendship that's rewarding and respectful.........I deserve that, everyone does. Some of the best friends I've had in my life have been with guys (though none have been with guys I'd previously been in a relationship with). Many of these relationships with guys (friendship) were more like a "brother-sister" relationship...and I really enjoyed it....because I've never had a brother, but always wanted one. I still maintain very close relationships with a couple of guys I went to Jr and Sr high school with...we still keep in touch, after 20+ years........one even admitted to me, a few years ago, that he'd had a huge crush on me all through high school (I had no idea, just thought of him as a "brother")........yet he, nor any of my guy friends ever crossed any lines........I'm just not used to "this" with the ex.

I thought it would be really nice for a change, to actually maintain a friendship with an ex........we obviously have a history together, we knew things about each other that nobody else did, we told things to each other that we'd never told to anyone before....he and I were "that close" and feeling "free" to just be ourselves totally........I thought that he and I could capitalize on that and build a really great friendship. But I guess it's not to be, regardless of the reasons. Whether he has ADD or not, I guess the reason doesn't matter. I will have to accept the fact that he can't be the friend that I want.

Or Moimeme, if you were in my shoes, would YOU continue to be in a friendship with someone like this? If so, how would you deal with their continued crude, crass remarks and attempts to get you into bed?
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Old 20th March 2004, 3:48 PM   #14
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......I miss the "Friendship" part of our relationship..........he's really a fun guy with a great sense of humour, very similar to mine. He's very down to earth and we both feel like we could tell the other anything........like we've known each other forever....
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2) He tells me I'm a really fun person, a great sense of humour, he enjoys talking to me on the phone, how we're a lot alike and he just has a lot of fun talking to me.
I think this is what's the frustrating part for befuddled. If it weren't for this, she surely would have cut bait ages ago.
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Old 20th March 2004, 3:57 PM   #15
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Right, so I do not think ADD has anything to do with this. He has given Befuddled enough to keep her hooked...that's part of the scheme. The more she doesn't give in to what he wants, the more obnoxious he's getting. He's playing games...(SOME) men like to conquer. He's trying to see how far he can push and keep on with his tricks before she either gives him the boot or gives him what he wants.
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