Is this level of closeness normal for a friend?

[SpiralOut]

WARNING: a bit long!!

 

It has been a long time since I allowed anyone to become close to me. I have a habit of pushing people away. Most of my social life is at work since I haven't much choice but to talk to the people I see there 5 days a week. I've been working on trying to meet people outside of the 9-5, also, but anyway, on with the story.

 

So I am not sure if this is normal or not. I have this friend that I've been feeling closer to. It's not something I've been doing on purpose. We have a lot in common and he's a talkative, friendly person. Up until recently, it was mostly him initiating all the conversations. He respects my boundaries and doesn't pry into my personal life (unlike other people I have complained about on here, but anyway).

 

I'm the sort of person who opens up slowly. With people like him, I feel safe, like I don't need to worry about him being pushy or nosy with me. It's easier for me to tell him things.

 

We used to mostly just talk about books, music, coffee, stuff like that. Lately it has someone gotten more personal, in an innocent way if that makes sense. For example he completely out of nowhere told me how he was feeling about something that happened in his family (felt bad for his sister in law who lost a family member). Then he said "I don't know why I told you that" and changed the topic back to coffee. The other day he complained about how he was stuck staying up late talking to a friend on the phone who was freaking out and needed to be calmed down. It surprised me he told me that. I didn't say much. I'll sometimes complain about things like not sleeping well at night. I don't tell anyone else at work about that because I figure it is personal. But with him I just say it without thinking.

 

But when it comes to other things we don't talk about them. For example I've overheard other people talking to him about girls he is dating. But he never mentions them to me. I don't ask, because it's not my business. I suppose that is normal; we're not close enough to discuss those things. I don't want to talk about my love life (or lack thereof) either so that's fine.

 

We have fought with each other a few times, and I mean gotten seriously pissed and told each other exactly why we were mad at each other. Then we'll ignore each other for a while, like a few hours or a couple days until we've forgotten about it and just act like friends again. I don't usually fight with people like this and remain friends with them. It somehow feels significant. I don't know if it means that I'm getting too close to him or if I'm turning into a normal person who fights just like anyone else.

 

Someone else at work who is friends with him commented to me that he talks to me more than anyone else. Another person mentioned it too.

 

The other day we were discussing this show from the 90s and I mentioned how obsessed I used to be with one of the main actors. He asked me "was he the fat one". I just laughed and said no. I don't know if he was teasing me or if he was being jealous.

 

He also has admitted to not feeling bored talking to me. It wasn't me who brought it up. He somehow got the idea that I thought he felt bored talking to me (when I said no such thing) and he got angry about it. We bickered about it for a minute before he calmed down.

 

If this were a woman, I would consider this to be completely normal. However, because this is a guy, I am wondering if this is normal for a man-woman friendship. I've had other male friends before, but I didn't feel quite this same level of closeness with them. There was only one male friend I was close to in the past, and I found out after a while that he had feelings for me.

 

I get the feeling that he likes me. Maybe I'm imagining it. But he's dating other women, so he is obviously not interested in pursuing me.

 

So is this level of friendship normal for a male-female friendship? I keep myself emotionally distanced from so many people that I don't know if I'm crossing lines.

 

Sorry this is so long. Thanks for reading!

Edited January 15, 2012 by SpiralOut

[PlumPrincess]

I'd say, guys who start confiding personal stuff to you that they don't share with anybody else are falling for you.

 

"I don't know why I told you that"

I think that's the line they use in movies to indicate that the guy is opening up emotionally to the girl.

 

Does he have friends of both genders? If not and you're one of the few female friends he has, then he probably likes you.

 

Getting easily offended is also a sign that someone might like you more and has certain expectations.

 

And does he treat you more like a buddy, an old pal, or like a woman he's friends with? Two of my friends, a guy and a woman, have known each other for years and are comfortable enough to go to the sauna together. He has a girlfriend, but I even if he didn't have a girlfriend I doubt that there would be any kind of eroticism between them. On the other hand, I tend to believe that he is somewhat interested in me. I don't think I have reached buddy level yet.

Edited January 15, 2012 by PlumPrincess

[gaius]

I don't think he would spend so much time trying to whittle through that wall you put up if he wasn't attracted to you on some level.

[Beachead]

Seems like you two have a good platform for becoming something more than friends but I'm a bit curious as to why he hasn't asked you out yet.

 

I've had female friends that I have not developed feelings for and I've also had ones I've crushed on.

 

The ones I've had some feelings for..I'd go that extra mile. I would spend more time talking to them, spend more time helping them out with their problems. More attention basically in person.

 

What would stop me from asking them out though is perhaps the friendship itself. I don't want to change things or make it awkard if my feelings are not reciprocated..so I detach from the thought and don't really do anything suspicious.

 

How long have you two been friends for? It seems like you may be showing some signs of interest yourself.

[SpiralOut]

I'd say, guys who start confiding personal stuff to you that they don't share with anybody else are falling for you.

 

 

I think that's the line they use in movies to indicate that the guy is opening up emotionally to the girl.

 

Does he have friends of both genders? If not and you're one of the few female friends he has, then he probably likes you.

 

Getting easily offended is also a sign that someone might like you more and has certain expectations.

 

And does he treat you more like a buddy, an old pal, or like a woman he's friends with? Two of my friends, a guy and a woman, have known each other for years and are comfortable enough to go to the sauna together. He has a girlfriend, but I even if he didn't have a girlfriend I doubt that there would be any kind of eroticism between them. On the other hand, I tend to believe that he is somewhat interested in me. I don't think I have reached buddy level yet.

 

No I don't think we are on a buddy level. He treats me like a coworker he's becoming friends with. We don't talk outside of work unless it is a group event or unless he needs to text me about something work related.

 

I don't think he would spend so much time trying to whittle through that wall you put up if he wasn't attracted to you on some level.

 

Maybe

 

Seems like you two have a good platform for becoming something more than friends but I'm a bit curious as to why he hasn't asked you out yet.

 

I've had female friends that I have not developed feelings for and I've also had ones I've crushed on.

 

The ones I've had some feelings for..I'd go that extra mile. I would spend more time talking to them, spend more time helping them out with their problems. More attention basically in person.

 

What would stop me from asking them out though is perhaps the friendship itself. I don't want to change things or make it awkard if my feelings are not reciprocated..so I detach from the thought and don't really do anything suspicious.

 

How long have you two been friends for? It seems like you may be showing some signs of interest yourself.

 

We've been friends for about 5-6 months now. We actually used to hang out outside of work. There is a thread on that around here somewhere. He was always sending me flirting texts and asking me to hang out and I got the impression he liked me so I tried to make a move (getting touchy with him) and he didn't respond well to that. Then he stopped texting me and was always too busy to hang out whenever I asked him. But at work he was still friendly to me. People who knew us thought something was going on between us too; there were rumours for a while.

 

I asked him if I had offended him and he said no. He then said that he just wants to be friends.

 

Oh but there is another woman at work that he now sends flirty texts to and hangs out with her sometimes. She obviously likes him and he knows it. So that made me feel like a piece of crap to find out he was acting the same way with her he was with me.

 

I detached myself from him emotionally. No point in having feelings for someone who straight up told me he just wants to be friends.

 

So I guess that's why I'm confused about why he is acting this way. There are all these signs to show that he's falling for me. But he makes no moves. In truth I have some feelings for him too but I try to ignore them. I won't let myself fall for someone who doesn't want me.

[carhill]

My instinct is that he senses your emotional distance; some men don't care but he might be one of those who does. IOW, he's not getting signals from you that you find him attractive and his 'style' is to accept that and leave it alone. A test would be to observe how the women he is flirting with 'signal' him and compare to yourself.

 

From my perspective, what you describe between yourself and him, at the observable level (not how you feel but the actions/words which are observed), is more like acquaintances. Everyone describes friendship differently. The important factor is that they are healthy and satisfying.

 

On the romance front, if no one makes a move or lowers a wall, nothing will happen. Status quo. Up to you how you want to play that out. Good luck.

[Beachead]

Carhill makes a good point but I don't know.

 

I think you should go with your gut feeling on this Spiralout, and I think your gut is telling you something isn't right about this.

 

A interested man wouldn't back off like that if you were getting touchy feely. Nor would he tell you he wants to be friends..that's my opinion.

 

Best of Luck to you

[SpiralOut]

Carhill makes a good point but I don't know.

 

I think you should go with your gut feeling on this Spiralout, and I think your gut is telling you something isn't right about this.

 

A interested man wouldn't back off like that if you were getting touchy feely. Nor would he tell you he wants to be friends..that's my opinion.

 

Best of Luck to you

 

That's what I figured. He clearly didn't seem interested. So I categorized him in my head as "work friend"

 

But now he's acting like this. He even made a comment one day about how he likes drinking coffee with me. I think he wanted to gauge my reaction. I didn't say anything because I didn't know if he was joking or not. And we both go to the same recreation centre: I actually started going there because he recommended it to me, and he has shown interest in seeing me there at the same time (but hasn't come right out and asked).

 

It's like he senses my emotional distance so now he feels it is safe to act however he wants. Either that or he enjoys having a challenge. I think part of him wonders if I like him or not. I try to be ambiguous because of the way he rejected me.

 

I guess I'm not even sure if he wants to be friends outside of work or not. I am getting mixed signals on that account. I'm not sure if I want to even try for it or not. It all seems too complicated.

[SpiralOut]

I think my REAL question is, does this guy even want to be my FRIEND at all? I don't want to pursue anything romantic but after he backed away from me like that I don't know what the hell he wants. After I backed away from him in return, I probably gave him the message I didn't want to hang out with him either. So it seems to be at a point where neither of us wants to attempt an outside-of-work friendship. I can't tell if he just doesn't want to because he doesn't want to, or if he just thinks that I am the one who doesn't want to.

[SpiralOut]

Posting an update. I have the answer now.

 

I don't know what the deal is exactly with this guy but he does the whole hot-cold, push-pull thing and I am not willing to deal with it.

 

I don't think I'll ever know if whatever kindness he showed me was genuine or not.

 

It is so confusing when someone walks up to you and initiates conversations all the time. He has stood up for me and others have commented on what they perceive as being my "friendship" with him.

 

yet now that we don't work together anymore I don't hear from him. He made comments about wanting to lend me more books which surprised me (it implies he wants to continue contact) but then, nothing! I haven't gotten a response from him in over a month.

 

Other people at work found out before I did that he has a new job(s) now.

 

Hearing about it from other people was really hurtful.

 

I just sent him a message asking for my book back. I told him he is welcome to give it to our other coworker (his friend) to give to me if he likes. I am assuming he doesn't want to meet with me since he just ignored me for a month yet still talks to other people from work.

 

I'm not sure what I did wrong. Did I insult him somehow? Does he not want to piss off his girlfriend by talking to me? Did I share too much information by mentioning that my contract is ending soon (that's kind of common knowledge though). ?

 

Why the hell did he tell me "lets do this!!" and then ignore me? It seems like everytime he tells me he wants to meet up or do this or that with me, he pulls the disappearing act afterwards. Why make me think he wants to be around me if he doesn't??

 

It hurts when someone pursues a friendship with you only to back off when you try to reciprocate it. I never would have reached out to him at all had he not sent out signals that he enjoyed my company.

 

I hope he doesn't want to meet up. He can just give my stuff back by giving it to our coworker and that will be that. Screw him.

[HeartCure]

Posting an update. I have the answer now.

 

I don't know what the deal is exactly with this guy but he does the whole hot-cold, push-pull thing and I am not willing to deal with it.

 

I don't think I'll ever know if whatever kindness he showed me was genuine or not.

 

It is so confusing when someone walks up to you and initiates conversations all the time. He has stood up for me and others have commented on what they perceive as being my "friendship" with him.

 

yet now that we don't work together anymore I don't hear from him. He made comments about wanting to lend me more books which surprised me (it implies he wants to continue contact) but then, nothing! I haven't gotten a response from him in over a month.

 

Other people at work found out before I did that he has a new job(s) now.

 

Hearing about it from other people was really hurtful.

 

I just sent him a message asking for my book back. I told him he is welcome to give it to our other coworker (his friend) to give to me if he likes. I am assuming he doesn't want to meet with me since he just ignored me for a month yet still talks to other people from work.

 

I'm not sure what I did wrong. Did I insult him somehow? Does he not want to piss off his girlfriend by talking to me? Did I share too much information by mentioning that my contract is ending soon (that's kind of common knowledge though). ?

 

Why the hell did he tell me "lets do this!!" and then ignore me? It seems like everytime he tells me he wants to meet up or do this or that with me, he pulls the disappearing act afterwards. Why make me think he wants to be around me if he doesn't??

 

It hurts when someone pursues a friendship with you only to back off when you try to reciprocate it. I never would have reached out to him at all had he not sent out signals that he enjoyed my company.

 

I hope he doesn't want to meet up. He can just give my stuff back by giving it to our coworker and that will be that. Screw him.

 

Something could have happened in between the time gaps,as you know,guys don't just date one girl and go all out for her if they don't give them the signals that they are interested in them,maybe you gave it too late and some other girl already got his attention.That would explain the sudden change in atmosphere.Thats just a possibility,but there are many things that can change a guys mind in a matter of seconds like a switch.Just leave hin alone,he most likely has someone else in mind since he doesn't want to sacrifice his time to meet you.

[SpiralOut]

Something could have happened in between the time gaps,as you know,guys don't just date one girl and go all out for her if they don't give them the signals that they are interested in them,maybe you gave it too late and some other girl already got his attention.That would explain the sudden change in atmosphere.Thats just a possibility,but there are many things that can change a guys mind in a matter of seconds like a switch.Just leave hin alone,he most likely has someone else in mind since he doesn't want to sacrifice his time to meet you.

 

Just leave him alone? Wow, did you not read what I wrote at all? I said I don't want to even meet up with him anymore, I just want to get my stuff back from him which is why I asked him if he'd be able to give it to our coworker to give to me.

 

And yes he has his mind on someone else. He has a girlfriend, as I mentioned. I am not pursuing him romantically.

 

He is the one who told me (even though he is seeing someone) that he wanted to continue contact with me by lending me more of his stuff.

 

I did not interpret this as him wanting to date me. I interpreted this as him wanting to continue some sort of casual aquaintance/friendship.

 

I have stayed friends with other men before without any issues so I'm a bit confused by his behaviour. I don't care anymore if he wants to date me. It's just a bit confusing when someone acts like a friend one minute then suddenly doesn't the next. I don't exactly have a lot of friends, you know, so if I seem defensive, that is why. I am not the type of person who would ever try to bother someone on purpose.

 

If I don't hear back from him, I will never contact him again.

Edited April 13, 2012 by SpiralOut

[SpiralOut]

I am the sort of person who usually ignores people who tries to be my friend because I am not sure if they really mean it or not.

 

Then later, I find out that they were being sincere and they are upset with me for ignoring their efforts.

 

As a result it screws up my social life, I miss out on potential friendships and relationships and yeah my life sucks because of it.

 

I decided to try something different this time and respond to someone who appears to want to be a friend.

 

And I get pushed away when I try. I am not trying to intrude upon anyone's life or anything like that.

 

So anyone who responds to this, please be nice to me. I don't want to ever be that person who is bothering someone. That is why I have so few friends, because I don't bother to try, because I don't want to be bothersome...

 

this is really hard you know...

[MCGar]

I think the problem lies where you were too busy wondering if he like you or 'LIKED' you. You patterned your behavior after what you 'thought' he was feeling.

1st rule. When it comes to a guy YOU decide if YOU like him. If you liked him just as a friend then you should have just acted accordingly. Behave in a way that you would with any friend (close or not close) and have YOUR boundaries set up for friendship. Then it would not matter one bit if he sent mixed signals because you would be clear of your participation in the friendship.

 

2nd rule. If a guy likes you, then you WILL KNOW IT. Maybe not right away but he will not waver or 'drop the ball.' Now before all the exceptions to the rule start crying foul, let me explain. If the guy is giving mixed signals there are usually good reasons.

-He is on the fence about you, he doesn't know if he likes you more than a friend or not

-He has a passing crush on you that isn't strong enough to go farther

-He is too inhibited or socially setback to make his feelings clear. 99.9% this kind of guy needs to mature on his own before he is ready for a relationship.

-He is playing games, liking to keep girls on the hook

-He unknowingly likes the ego boost and attention it gets him

-He may just like you as a friend only but does not know how to relate to girls.

So, given all those reasons, it just means stay away from a romantic relationship with a guy if he can't be clear and forthright. Because if he isn't clear, then he IS NOT READY FOR A MATURE RELATIONSHIP. He may need more self-confidence or something, but regardless you can't 'fix' it for him. He has to fix it for himself.

 

So now that I've gotten the general rules out of the way. I think your guy in particular was confused. He liked the friendship and felt comfortable enough with you that he crossed friendship boundaries, but then realized he didn't like you romantically. He also, in general, probably really likes female attention.

 

Don't give up on making friends. Try to stick with the female friendships if you don't want the romantic complications (don't buy into the stereotype that females are only catty, there are plenty of men that are worse in that regard). In friendships with men, decide if you actually want to be friends and stick with appropriate boundaries regardless of what they do. When you are romantically interested in somebody, watch and make sure that they are giving clear signals and follow through. Because even if this dude really liked you, that doesn't mean you should get in a relationship with him.

[whichwayisup]

don't know what the deal is exactly with this guy but he does the whole hot-cold, push-pull thing and I am not willing to deal with it.

 

The guy either is a player or a narcissist. Not worth your time or effort. Try not to be upset or take it personally. You've done nothing wrong, it's all him. My guess is, he is plenty of women 'friends' spread all over the place and treats them the same way, only contacts them when it suits him best.

[SpiralOut]

I think the problem lies where you were too busy wondering if he like you or 'LIKED' you. You patterned your behavior after what you 'thought' he was feeling.

1st rule. When it comes to a guy YOU decide if YOU like him. If you liked him just as a friend then you should have just acted accordingly. Behave in a way that you would with any friend (close or not close) and have YOUR boundaries set up for friendship. Then it would not matter one bit if he sent mixed signals because you would be clear of your participation in the friendship.

 

2nd rule. If a guy likes you, then you WILL KNOW IT. Maybe not right away but he will not waver or 'drop the ball.' Now before all the exceptions to the rule start crying foul, let me explain. If the guy is giving mixed signals there are usually good reasons.

-He is on the fence about you, he doesn't know if he likes you more than a friend or not

-He has a passing crush on you that isn't strong enough to go farther

-He is too inhibited or socially setback to make his feelings clear. 99.9% this kind of guy needs to mature on his own before he is ready for a relationship.

-He is playing games, liking to keep girls on the hook

-He unknowingly likes the ego boost and attention it gets him

-He may just like you as a friend only but does not know how to relate to girls.

So, given all those reasons, it just means stay away from a romantic relationship with a guy if he can't be clear and forthright. Because if he isn't clear, then he IS NOT READY FOR A MATURE RELATIONSHIP. He may need more self-confidence or something, but regardless you can't 'fix' it for him. He has to fix it for himself.

 

Thank you. You hit the nail on the head. I knew that part of the problem was me. It was confusing figuring out if it was ALL me or partly this guy too. I think part of it is him.

 

Even if he wanted to date me, if would be a terrible idea. There are certain things about him I've noticed that are immature and really bother me.

 

Talking to him as much as I did really helped to improve my conversational skills. That's one thing this guy is really good at so I'm glad for the opportunity to pick up on some skills. Kinda meant a lot to me that I'm better at talking to people now largely in part to him....

 

The guy either is a player or a narcissist. Not worth your time or effort. Try not to be upset or take it personally. You've done nothing wrong, it's all him. My guess is, he is plenty of women 'friends' spread all over the place and treats them the same way, only contacts them when it suits him best.

 

Yeah you're probably right. We gave each other our stuff back through someone else. He mentioned that he might see me at work w hen he stopped by but it didn't sound sincere so when I heard him come in, I didn't bother to go talk to him. He did not come to find me either. Why bother to pretend?

 

I'm moving on now. Geez I seem to really suck at this meeting friends thing. Since when did it get so hard to find good people!

[trishd]

McGar had great advice and quite insightful too.. Spiral, don't give up on building friendships. They take time and a lot of work. I am sure you can look back on this experience with your co-worker and find wisdom in reading people and building connections. Communication is always key in the success of any relationship.