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Old 14th October 2011, 10:30 PM   #1
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Unhappy Extremely long rant

Hi guys,

I need to vent. And maybe some advice if anyone bothers to read all this. I'd sure appreciate it. Please forgive any repetitions or so, I get confused about what I did or did not mention already when it's this long... Short attention span

The deal is:

He's way younger than me but thinks he's above me. He's unquestioningly religious. Not ultra-orthodox, but enough to cross the line into „somewhat small-minded“, no offense.

He has no street smarts whatsoever but knows it all, because: His only trusted source of knowledge is the bible. And what the Bible says, is legit and practical and fair. If I were to take all the 613 mitzvahs seriously, I'd have to shun him for masturbating.

And all Jews, even rapist Jews, deserve love and compassion. Clarification: I feel violated when a stranger assumes I'm fine with him cat-calling me. That to me, is a rapist too. He'll call all fellow Jews cousins or brothers. And demands I be nice to them. I'm Jewish too, so why doesn't he scream at others to be nicer to me? Even when they ain't nice to me. Like when they sexually harassed me. I should be "compassionate".

He told me this by yelling and threatening to unfriend me. After I explained to him that my experience with these particular people (not Jews in general) have been nothing short of traumatizing every time, and then I tried to change the subject by being nothing but supportive of his goals; he suddenly came back to it, after hours, because, my saying I will only have sex with someone who looks Israeli/"Jewish", is so racist and horrible that our friendship must absolutely depend on it and he gets to yell at me for that FOR HOURS but G-d forbid I merely tell him to attend class more often for his own sake, then he'll go "That's so offensive and out of line; don't worry about me until I [insert perfectly normal past times for guys his age here]!" on me for HOURS.

And after he yelled and pushed me to tears with his paranoid accusations (whatever could be about him, he'll make about him, screamingly and unable to be reasoned with) and lack of understanding and even more lack of the compassion he preaches, he'll dismiss the state he put me in saying "It's all in your head, but seriously, what I just said, it's serious and you must abide or we can't be friends because I don't give a **** what you went through, racism is never tolerable and I must not tolerate it on my facebook wall (by which he means his feed of MY wall)". He meant by racism my saying that I don't want a rapechild from "specific people". I'm no racist, but I'm a purist when it comes to my own procreation. As for "rapechild", see "hitting on me".
To make him stop and listen to my point of view about not wanting to be hit on by „people fitting a specific profile“, I had to go as far as to disclose to him that I've been repeatedly sexually assaulted (more than cat-called) by those people and that naturally, I've developed an aversion to interacting with them, because the definition of crazy is to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result – that is me talking to males fitting „that profile“, until I decided to shun them, after a 100 times of being sorry. I never told anyone THAT much, and he pushed me into telling him of all people. And did that really change his mind about yelling at me? Not for more than 30 minutes. Well I didn't time it, but it felt like less than 1 hour.

Where was his compassion for ME when I was being sexually harassed? I was the victim. But I should welcome them into Israel and not be so hard on them (so why is he being hard on me?). So he assumes that being a Jew always equals being a good person. So Jews torching mosques are better people than Nazis torching synagogues?

And he'll use "we're close enough friends" as an excuse to talk to me in any way he damn well pleases, yell, insult, boss me around, and ask me what's wrong with me when I trip over my own feet because I'm trying to do all his 100 orders at once when I'm tired and sick, while he's sitting there playing with my dog.
He says that in a marriage, the man must provide leadership. Well sweetheart, a decent leader is aware and considerate of his follower's capabilities. And you ain't my husband.

But G-d forbid I'm so much as critical or sarcastic, he'll get up in my face, how dare I! I'm a sarcastic person, deal with it, but when he says he's accepting, that would require him not trying to change me to accommodate him. I've accepted his uselessness in any personal problems because he'll just go and cite the Bible because that is soooo the solution to all problems: You can pray suicidality, rape trauma, any trauma, Multiple sklerosis, loneliness etc. all away, and that's that, and that's the only thing you can expect from him: No hug, no listening, no talking it out – just „Here's this Bible verse about... And yeah, it is totally practical!“. I've accepted that and will probably not confide in him anymore, as much as I long to. A very dear friend of mine is slowly dying from MS and fading away from depression, and I can't talk to him about it because all he'll say is „He needs G-d“, which offends and demoralizes me, because it shows how much (=little) he's willing to think about my troubles with his own head and how quick he is to dismiss them with the word „G-d“. Let G-d sort it out. Yeah, that'll totally do the trick for my sick friend who is an atheist, and if prayer could cure MS, we'd know about it. I'd love to talk reason with him, but...

And he'll twist my saying "I need to tiptoe around you" (does that surprise you, after all you've read so far?) into "How can you accuse me of saying all kinds of horrible things about you when I'm nothing but kind to you?". He admitted being paranoid at one point, but whether that was an actual earnest confession, or him trying to de-insultify his checking his beverages for traces of my putting roofies in them, I don't know. Maybe he only said that to not hurt my feelings. No, I did not slip him roofies.

He tells me to be as humble as him, but he's Michael Scott-humble as in: Aim as high as possible, but assume that others = I will be honored and glad if I can clean the toilet of some army base (I yearn to be a soldier in the service of Israel). What makes me less likely to aim high? And just so you know, I'll be fine with just a tank unit or even training those gross Oketz dogs, or less. Much less, as long as I get a uniform.
But I should content myself scrubbing the army loo. That is contributing, too. Yes, because soldiers cannot fight when they have to wipe the toilet seat themselves after dripping on it... Or that it'd be a great honor if, if declined by the army, I get to change old peoples' diapers instead, as a volunteer mind you, for free. Well then why doesn't he do that if that's so great and honorable? I can see why he won't, but why can't he see why I won't? Why would it be natural for him to come to Israel just to join the army, but I, I can come for less? Excuse me, my streetsmarts and life experience equal, if not outweigh, his physical/athletic qualifications. I've „been there, done that“ a lot of less than enviable things that left me strong and unfazed by most horrors.
Has it never ocurred to him that this talk is insulting? I mean, if the best I can hope for, is changing diapers and scrubbing toilets, what does that say about what he thinks of me?

He yells at me for having a grunt in my naturally low-pitched voice when scolding MY puppy, saying I sound like a satanist, and he won't shut up about it because that's serious business. Dogs have no notion of satanism. I've raised dogs before! He'll yell at me unfairly, he'll almost beat my tiny cat for biting him, but I don't get to scream at my dog. And I've found that the best way to raise a dog, is to act like one. I'm not having my vocal chords operated on just to accommodate his taste in how I deal with MY dog.

Mind you, he constantly emphasizes that he's loving and compassionate, like a crook wearing all white clothes to convince everyone of a purity that needs to be brandished in order to count. He IS those things, but I don't see as much of it as I hear of it. I do see a lot of it and I'm grateful, I love him, but... Oh you get the picture.

Oh right, he'll also tell me „No more grossly inapropriate jokes when I'm around if you want to keep hanging out with me“, but I've heard more tales from him about his penis, than he knows about my vagina, which is basically nothing.

And I can't bring up any of that with him: Because it's all in my head and how dare I, when he's oh so loving. And he CAN be loving, most of the time he IS loving, caring and helpful. But he can get so angry and unfair.

Like - he'll boast about giving his friends keys to his apartment so they can have a place to stay, and what he does for and with them, but while he does hang out with and help me with things, which I do appreciate, I can't help but feel left out. What makes me less needing of this affection? G-d knows he knows I'd be there for him at 3 am to wipe his hindquarters if both his arms were broken. I'm home lonely most of the time and he knows. But he won't even let me sleep over when I locked myself out at 1 am. He said he had people over but on the phone, there was no background noise whatsoever and his place is too small, and his voice too loud, for there to be anyone asleep with him. He was alone. I'm no idiot. Compassion my butt. But yell at me for lying when the lie was a mere JOKE in front of a bunch of strangers.

Why is this bothering me so much; well he's the best friend I've had since I came to Israel, and I love being with him and if I were more religious and had a smaller ass, I'd totally try to get him to marry me. I just don't think I have a shot; if I had I'd probably ignore the promise of more misery and go for it. I love him so much, yet his behavior is just unfair and hurtful and there's nothing I can do about it without ending contact alltogether, which is the last thing I want.
But I'm already so resentful because of all these unresolved issues that I find quite abusive. Before I really got to know him, we had this fun little puppy love going on; now I'm balancing between tiptoeing and being somewhat true myself and hoping I can be myself in only positive ways. He doesn't really notice, because how could a G-d fearing compassionate kid like him ever wrong anyone? I recently told him part of what's bothering me, and he dismissed it.
And he didn't notice at all my lack of joy and being all over him when he does show up for class lately. I used to greet him with big fat smiles and stuff, now I stare at the classroom door longing for him to show up, but when he does, I'm happy but I keep it to myself because I fear a „lack of appreciation“ of some sort. I get gloomy when he can't sit next to me for lack of space, but walking up to him during the break has become difficult, too, when I have no „valid excuse“ to bother him. Not that he'll reject me because I know he won't, but our issues stick to the back of my head and I can't move on from unresolved issues.
First the arguments were only on Facebook chats and I thought it's because of the lack of body language and tone of voice that he took offense where I meant none, and vice-versa. But his disrespect (I should change old people diapers; scream at me for how I raise my dog, boss me around, dump my sick friend on G-d,...) has oozed into real life so I don't think it's all because of chat misunderstandings. There is a problem.
I'm trying to reduce his behavior to his „golden cage“ upbringing and the stress he's currently in, and his age, but from what he told me, it's safe to assume that it is unfortunately his short-fused, touchy nature. What he told me about that, mind you, were all general remarks and in no way any sign of comprehension for my specific concerns about his behavior. I understand a lot of his behavior because we have a lot of things in common, or I used to be like him in certain ways, so I understand, but I still can't cope.

I'm an easygoing person, and I certainly don't let an interpersonal relationship depend on opinions that don't concern me personally, such as gay marriage or racism. He's against the „gay lifestyle“, do I dump him for that? No. I ain't gay. So why can I not publicly say that I don't want a child with a non-“jewish-looking“ person? He ain't that nonejewishlooking person. He's rightwing, I'm a liberal Nazi (pro gay, anti Palestine). What should this matter when we love (hanging out with) each-other? My friends in my former country were anti-Israel, wearing those awful Palestinian scarves and attending „Free Palestine“-protests, did that destroy or friendship? No. I think true friendship shouldn't stand or fall over politics or religion. I know he loves me, but I'm not bulletproof.

I don't want to hurt him or lose him or fight more, but I need it off my chest. I'm so sorry, but I can't put up with that and not kick and scream. If our friendship is to survive, I need this talked about and if he won't do that without being a jerk, then I have to look elsewhere, right? I just hope he never finds this post or it'll be twisted into another thing it isn't...

It's past 4 am. I wasn't going to stay up past midnight. See what this relationship does to me. Great.
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Old 20th October 2011, 5:54 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Pompom View Post
Hi guys,

I need to vent. And maybe some advice if anyone bothers to read all this. I'd sure appreciate it. Please forgive any repetitions or so, I get confused about what I did or did not mention already when it's this long... Short attention span

The deal is:

He's way younger than me but thinks he's above me. He's unquestioningly religious. Not ultra-orthodox, but enough to cross the line into „somewhat small-minded“, no offense.
Pompom,
This is a long post, but have some questions.

This is just a casual, friendship, not a dating relationship?

Does this man know about your past, which you posted in another thread?
Not judging here, but as you posted it, it might factor in.

Quote:
Oh right, he'll also tell me „No more grossly inapropriate jokes when I'm around if you want to keep hanging out with me“, but I've heard more tales from him about his penis, than he knows about my vagina, which is basically nothing.
It seems odd, all this. Am not sure this guy's a great fit for you given what you've posted about him.
Is this someone you want to seriously date?
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Old 21st October 2011, 3:24 AM   #3
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It's casual although I think we've both been flirting. I sure have and he has to be blind not to have noticed, and his countless sexual innuendos and certain behavior also suggests it, but practically, we're just friends.

I told him about my past way after this behavior was established... I thought it can't get much worse, and our friend had just confided in us with her "dark past" and I didn't want her to feel like the freak of the bunch all alone, so I thought, screw it, if he's a true friend, this won't change anything, and blurted it out.

As for your question, I'm starting to lean "no". But I'm sure that's just because I haven't see him for 2 weeks. I'm sure once he'll walk into class all the concerns will be muted.

And thanks for reading
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Old 21st October 2011, 11:45 PM   #4
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It's casual although I think we've both been flirting. I sure have and he has to be blind not to have noticed, and his countless sexual innuendos and certain behavior also suggests it, but practically, we're just friends.
Wow. He portrays himself as a devout religious Jew, following all the rules, etc.

Yet he talks in sexual innuendos, and references his penis?
Quote:
Oh right, he'll also tell me „No more grossly inapropriate jokes when I'm around if you want to keep hanging out with me“, but I've heard more tales from him about his penis, than he knows about my vagina, which is basically nothing.
His behavior seems contradictory.
Quote:
I told him about my past way after this behavior was established... I thought it can't get much worse, and our friend had just confided in us with her "dark past" and I didn't want her to feel like the freak of the bunch all alone, so I thought, screw it, if he's a true friend, this won't change anything, and blurted it out.
How did he react?
Him being "super religious," am curious his reaction.

I'd PM you on some of this but you don't have privileges yet.

Didn't see you respond in the other thread. I know you were offended by some of the other posts.
If I can ask, am I correct in assuming you no longer engage in that former line of work?
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Old 22nd October 2011, 5:14 AM   #5
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He didn't react at all, and only brought it up once when he was writing my army application letter, asking if there were any records of that job they might get their hands on.
Yeah, he did that for me...
I don't even think he thinks less of me for that, since he once told me that he didn't hold the past against a person if that past stays the past. Also I think he already thinks less of me for not being religious, so what damage can any more confessions of "sin" do... And ofcourse he'd never say it, because compassion and love and all that, but I'm sure there's a reason why he never invites me along when he goes on a trip or something with his other friends, who are all religious.

I quit that job in early 2010 when the economy went bad and I was faced with the impossibility to reject 9 out of 10 customers. Didn't want to have to "do" everyone that came along just to pay the rent of my workspace

And yup, I stopped responding there, said all I had to say. Not really interested in reading more unfounded insults.
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Old 22nd October 2011, 11:47 AM   #6
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In the first half of your OP. Pom-pom, you described this man as continually insulting, belittling, demeaning, yelling, and being dismissive of your point of view.

Now this is just my opinion, but I feel that the only time it's acceptable to yell at someone is when they're about to get run over by a bus. If someone raises their voice and talks over me---I walk away---I won't be disrespected like that. Once a conversation devolves into yelling, I can't imagine any helpful or constructive communication happening..........

Yet, in the later part of your OP---you mention wanting to marry this guy...
Is that how you want to spend your life? Getting yelled at? Not being heard? Having YOUR feelings discounted? Being thought of as "less than" because you don't share his religious beliefs?

Do you really want a lifetime of browbeating?
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Old 23rd October 2011, 7:52 PM   #7
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In the first half of your OP. Pom-pom, you described this man as continually insulting, belittling, demeaning, yelling, and being dismissive of your point of view.

...
Yet, in the later part of your OP---you mention wanting to marry this guy...
Is that how you want to spend your life? Getting yelled at? Not being heard? Having YOUR feelings discounted? Being thought of as "less than" because you don't share his religious beliefs?

Do you really want a lifetime of browbeating?
This bothered me as well.

Pom Pom,
What do you know about him? Do you think he's a virgin?

Though not a Jew, I once striclty adhered to religious beliefs.
I've eased-up, however, but I know what that's like and what he may be experiencing.
I didn't tell off-color jokes, though, as I took things pretty seriously.

Are you sure this guy's a good fit for you?
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Old 24th October 2011, 2:08 PM   #8
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He's a pretty proud virgin actually... Which ain't normally my cup of tea but you know, his behavior bothers me but it never surprised me, and I accepted the risk of getting hurt (only to complain afterwards, I know, I know!). I'm a good judge of character and the day he walked into my classroom/life, I knew I'd like him way too much, but I also knew he has the kind temper/opinion issues I'm complaining about now. It's just that I also knew I'd like him really, really much and there are reasons for that, too. As long as we're good, I'm just really happy around him. And eventhough he tends to give me this feeling of holier-than-thou (him), he also keeps telling me how great this and this and that is about me. Actually, I may have forgotten to mention 2 important things:
1, about "grossly inappropriate jokes"... He said he wanted this not because it might embarass him, but because he knew I was "better than that" and wanted me to be my best, which is kind of flattering, although I like my racist dead baby genital Holocaust jokes... Also, he stopped bothering. And started pigging out on them.
2, he admits he's got a case of OCD and perfectionism. So it's probably not even personal, though it's irksome either way.

Quote:
Yet, in the later part of your OP---you mention wanting to marry this guy...
Is that how you want to spend your life? Getting yelled at? Not being heard? Having YOUR feelings discounted? Being thought of as "less than" because you don't share his religious beliefs?
Not that he even knows I'm thinking about that, but it would be on the condition of meeting half-way. Yes I could use some discipline, but he also needs to mellow out some. I don't even mind so much being "under" a man in a committed, sexual relationship, but as long as we're both assuming we're just friends, I need equality. I'm not a "respect your elders" person, but I'd still like my word to count.

I mean, I've complained a lot, but he also carries my groceries (and here, you buy things at $0.60/2 pounds, go figure what my trolley weighs) up the hill, he writes my appliccation letter, he forces me to watch my health (he'd more or less slam me onto a bench in the shade and push water down my throat when I'm trying to "toughen out" a heat stroke), he'll offer to share what little food he can afford, he stuck around when I had to put down my cat and stayed to cheer me up afterward, I mean he IS a sweety, just sometimes I just wanna kick him...
On the other hand, I feel like it'd be unfair to let the bad things outweigh the good, I wouldn't want friends to judge me that way, so how could I? I'm just very sensitive, and his personality and mine fit great in some ways, but provide big problems in others. Everybody around us who doesn't really know us that well, thinks we're dating, and people who do know us see that connection we have. We get each-other despite our differences. I just feel like we might actually be soulmates, even with all the bash-each-others-face-in material...
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Old 26th October 2011, 4:25 PM   #9
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I'm starting to feel horrible about this being out there, and long and nasty and deprecating of this wonderful person who has some flaws that bother me personally while they're probably not even aimed at me personally.
The reason I care so much in the first place, is because I love him so much and there are valid reasons for that, it's not just me seeking out guys who make me miserable, half of it is actually his good qualities. It's probably 50% me seeking out a guy I'll guard myself from so I won't get into a serious relationship that might hurt me, and 50% me going animal kingdom and Darwinistic or whoever said that we seek out good breeding mates aka suitable partners. So half of my crush on him is reasonable, half of it is me trying to stay lonely and miserable. Or something like that. I just had a huge brownie and whipped cream and a scoop of vanilla icecream, way too much sugar for my gastric bypass, so my mind is kinda affected, sorry, I know it shows. I'm lucid, just incapable of limiting the number of words I communicate my lucid thoughts in. My opening post was not in such a state, that was just me being emotional. Which also makes me wordy. I need to shut up.

So in short I really don't feel right about this post being here anymore, while I do appreciate everyone's input and I did need to vent and I do feel the way I said I did. But I also feel love and admiration for his positive qualities, so please forgive me for asking this, but could this be deleted? I just feel like the bigger ******* of the two for dragging him through the mud like this, eventhough I didn't make these up, he doesn't understand my reproaches to their full extent so he'd probably feel hurt for no reason he can grasp, if he were to find this and that thought scares me, not just because he'd be furious, but also because he'd be hurt and is it obvious I'm on sugar for being so wordy about this simple thing:

Thanks for your input, I DO appreciate it and it did make me think about a few things (basically I decided to man up and be more assertive even if he could snap me in half at some point), I just don't feel right about bashing him publicly, please delete this, and I'm truly sorry I'm asking this after people actually cared to read so much personal ranting from some stranger, which is really something. Most people would say "TL;DR", so, I truly appreciate it.

I actually flung some of these things at him yesterday, with a smile and all the calming signals I learned from a dog book and repeating that I do love him and stuff, and that he's a wonderful guy otherwise, and I guess putting some flowers into my speech bubble made him willing to think about what I said and he showed quite some comprehension. I think that actually daring to tell him to the face (not as detailed as I did here, but what it boils down to) made it possible to be more open in the future. I think we're good. Or at least a bit better.
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Old 5th November 2011, 11:56 PM   #10
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Yeah, the moderators 'round here don't like to edit or delete posts, so prob. won't happen.
I wouldn't advise posting so much geographic and occupation detail as someone familiar with your univ., locale, etc., might figure out where you are. I'm in the U.S., fyi.

Quote:
He didn't react at all, and only brought it up once when he was writing my army application letter, asking if there were any records of that job they might get their hands on.
Yeah, he did that for me...
I don't even think he thinks less of me for that, since he once told me that he didn't hold the past against a person if that past stays the past. Also I think he already thinks less of me for not being religious, so what damage can any more confessions of "sin" do...
Good view he has there.
Quote:
was writing my army application letter,
You sound like some tough broad, wanting to join the military.
Quote:
I actually flung some of these things at him yesterday, with a smile and all the calming signals I learned from a dog book and repeating that I do love him and stuff, and that he's a wonderful guy otherwise, and I guess putting some flowers into my speech bubble made him willing to think about what I said and he showed quite some comprehension. I think that actually daring to tell him to the face (not as detailed as I did here, but what it boils down to) made it possible to be more open in the future. I think we're good. Or at least a bit better.
It's good it sounds like he's taken a bit by you. Hope that all works out.

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Old 6th November 2011, 6:38 PM   #11
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I think you should ask yourself what percentage of the time you spend with him makes you feel happy compared to unhappy. If you feel unhappy more often than you feel happy around him, that's not a good sign.

A friend once told me that relationships/friendships shouldn't be stressful. You should feel good about yourself when you're around a friend or a romantic partner.
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Old 7th November 2011, 5:44 AM   #12
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I think you should ask yourself what percentage of the time you spend with him makes you feel happy compared to unhappy. If you feel unhappy more often than you feel happy around him, that's not a good sign.

A friend once told me that relationships/friendships shouldn't be stressful. You should feel good about yourself when you're around a friend or a romantic partner.
See most of the time, I'm happy and lately a lot has changed for the better.

I feel really, really horrible about this; please, just this once?
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Old 7th November 2011, 10:47 AM   #13
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Contact a mod. Maybe they'll axe the thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompom View Post
I feel really, really horrible about this; please, just this once?
Though the mods explicitly say they won't edit or delete threads, perhaps you could PM them and see what happens.
Am not a mod, so can't help you there. CarHill is, so maybe ask him.

After all, many legitimate threads with useful posts all the sudden disappear.
These threads aren't only "closed" to new posts, but all the posts are wiped from the forum.
One such thread is this, cached here:

Porn and relationships, seriously

As a FORMER heavy porn user, I contributed much to that thread and earnestly tried to convince men to try to kick the habit, or at least lessen their viewing of hardcore porn.
Two female posters who have strong views on the subject also provided much insight.

There were also posts on how to help a particular single never-in-a-relationship guy end his distress and go out and meet more women....


Didn't see the final posts that caused the thread to be wiped off the planet, but imagine the debate must've gotten hot and heavy after a long side-track issue a couple of posters engaged in...

Fortunately, there's web caching, so I have much of the thread to view...



On your thread, Pom Pom, understand you'll be more reluctant to post so much private information about your guy and your situation.
You didn't reveal your or his name, so should be okay.
Just don't state where you live, etc., say you only saw him in classes, and he helped write you a letter of application, not to what agency, etc.


As for him reading this post, simple. Don't tell him you post on LS.

I don't tell my spouse I post here. Too many deep personal things I've related about me
(ala "Long time refused and considering leaving" -- read some of the threads I've started).

Last edited by Floridaman; 7th November 2011 at 10:57 AM..
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Old 18th November 2011, 2:42 AM   #14
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If the thread can't be removed, at least have the damned decency of not bringing it back to the top of the list by posting totally unrelated BS.
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Old 18th November 2011, 3:40 PM   #15
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Hope you're referencing another poster that followed me (but whose posts are gone).
Thought I added some useful info here, Pom.
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