Thoughts on this Email...

[SBBW]

So I finally got the friend that i've been having problems with to contact me. I emailed her asking if there was a problem and this is what I got back. She really ripped into me goo. I guess I am just looking for thoughts. This way you all can hear some of her side of the story too.

 

Well, yes, there is a problem.

 

For one thing, it's not just that you kicked me out. If you kicked me out based on my playing, then that I could deal with. But you kicked me out because of all this other ****. Because I'm not spiritual enough and serious about your music. Honestly how is your music that spiritual? You guys write songs about banging corpses, mutilating roadkill, sex with cripples, etc. That's all fine and dandy, but GWAR has been doing that for years along with countless other shock value bands. At practice all you guys do is play the same 6 songs over and over again while getting wasted and pigging out on takeout. That's fun and everything, but I don't get how you can say I am not spiritual or serious enough to be a part of your project. Most of the time it seems like you guys aren't even taking it serious. And I know a hell of a lot of musicians who have a goal to play live. It had nothing to do with me wanting to hog the spotlight like you said. It had to do with wanting to be a part of something that was cohesive and talented enough to play a live show. I wanted to see all of us play live, not just me. Wanting that for us as a band is not wanting to hog the spotlight.

 

And the fact that you wasted all this time. I know you don't see it as wasted time, but put yourself in my position for a minute. When I entered (after you begging me to join you for months) there was no keyboard music written. So it's not like I just had to learn a few songs. I had to spend time writing keyboard parts for your whole catalog, then memorizing all of them. It took you guys a year to write and learn these songs, it took me a few weeks. And then all the time I spent practicing with you guys after I did write and learn the music is wasted too. And I thought I was doing fine all this time. If there was a problem someone could have spoke up and said something. I'd think you, being my friend, would have the courtesy, but apparently not. And you don't understand how this was a waste of my time? Think about it.

 

And, I got really tired of having to censor myself at practice. Every time I made a suggestion or had an idea you guys all listened politely, then the next day I got a call or an email from you bitching me out about it. I know you will say it's because I am oh so narcicistic and all, but I don't like being given the thrid degree for my opinion or a simple idea.

 

And Everything I ever said to you got completely twisted around when it got back to the guys. I would bet money the things I'm saying in this email will get twisted around before you tell the guys. I say one thing, you tell them something else. I do one thing, you tell them the opposite. When I was asked to join the other band you went and told them all that I was planning to quit. And don't say you didn't.

 

And there's more to this then just the band... You are exhausting to have a friendship with. Your judgmental, for one. Like when **** got laid off, you couldn't shut up about what a loser he is. Well you've been laid off and fired from a few jobs in the time I've known you, does that make you a loser too? And at that one party you had you yelled at me in front of everyone there because I didn't tell you ***** was a vegetarian. So? Who cares if she's a vedgie? And why the hell is it my duty to tell you? You made an ass of me in front of a whole house of people because I didn't tell you that? Were you feeling a little low on yourself that day and wanting to bully someone or what? You judge people based on the music they listen to, the clothes they wear, how much money they have... That gets really old after a while.

 

And you talk about everyone behind their backs. ******* has told me a few things you've told him about me, and I know you've told me a lot of unflattering things about him. And you agree with whoever is in the room at the time. I've noticed this about you and religion. When we are in the company of a Satanist, suddenly your a Satanist? And I've seen this happen with an Atheist and a Pagan as well. And you belittle my religious beliefs? At least I am secure enough to stick to them no matter who I am conversing with. You go on and on about what a non conformist you are. But out of everyone I know you make the most effort to conform. You change based on your surroundings like a chameleon. And if your so proud to be a large woman, why the hell are you always dieting? And I'm sick of hearing about my smoking. Yes, I smoke cigarettes. But I take vitimins, exercise regularly, and eat healthy most of the time. Cigarettes are a vise for me, just like food is a vise for you. Do you ever hear me bitching about all the junk food you eat?

 

I guess I could go on... but none of it'll get through. You'll interpret this message how you want to. You'll probably have a laugh with the guys about and call me a whiner crybaby. But you asked if there was a problem. I think I've given you plenty to chew on for a while. You should read this message critically the next time you start to wonder why you don't have any friends.

[Zona76]

read that again a little more slowly.... then tell me what was your point? What was the question?

[Great Gazoo]

My thought is that she IS pissed off and for a reason.

[Trialbyfire]

I think your ex-friend has clearly stated her issues with you. Much of what she said was expressed by the LS members who participated in the previous thread. It will be beneficial for you to understand how your treatment of your friend has caused her to distance herself from you.

 

Point blank, you treated her like crap and now she wants nothing to do with you.

[SBBW]

My thought is that she IS pissed off and for a reason.

 

I'm so glad someone here finally sees it like I do.

[crazy_grl]

I'm so glad someone here finally sees it like I do.

 

Just read the other 2 threads, and I think everyone sees it that way. Did you misread Great Gazoo's post or something?

 

Seems she's realized what a sh*tty friend you are and wants nothing to do with you. I think you should follow her advice:

 

You should read this message critically the next time you start to wonder why you don't have any friends.

[Trimmer]

Zona and GreatGazoo - you really need the background in these two threads to put this in context...

 

Original thread

 

Followup

 

SBBW: What is there to say? Now you don't have to guess any more. You know my opinion; it hasn't changed.

[Zona76]

So, are you denying any truth to this email ?

Is this all lies?

It's not just that she is a bad performer but that she won't conform to your music style?

[SBBW]

Just read the other 2 threads, and I think everyone sees it that way. Did you misread Great Gazoo's post or something?

 

Seems she's realized what a sh*tty friend you are and wants nothing to do with you. I think you should follow her advice:

 

I guess I did misread it. Boy is my face red.

[SBBW]

So, are you denying any truth to this email ?

Is this all lies?

It's not just that she is a bad performer but that she won't conform to your music style?

 

No, I'm not denying the truth in it.

 

The reason we kicked her out is stated pretty clear.... She wasn't serious enough being the biggest reason. And she was a bad performer. As far as conforming to our style that wasn't a problem I guess. She wasn't as talented as we are, but we play metal, and she was more then willing to play metal. So I guess she conformed just fine.

 

But, she needs to realize that bands all have one member they rip on. She was that member. She needs to grow a thicker skin if she's ever going to be successful.

[Trialbyfire]

Wow, complete and utter denial. I've never seen anyone who can lie to themselves so effectively. It is the strangest sense of self-entitlement based on rampant jealousy, I've ever seen. If you consider that LS has people from all walks of life, that's quite something.

 

You honestly don't get it, do you? Your ex-friend communicates very clearly and has excellent points. Why can't you see this and fix yourself? If you don't, you will never have any friends.

[Trimmer]

But, she needs to realize that bands all have one member they rip on. She was that member.

I don't know where you got that idea, but it is WRONG WRONG WRONG on its face. That may happen in some bands, but it's not any kind of a rule, or even necessarily that common. I think it's much more common that everyone both takes and gives a share of the ripping back and forth, kept to a modest level that everyone can enjoy and feel like they are included in. The dynamics within a band are WAY more subtle than you are allowing for, and I think you are likely to have as much trouble understanding the interpersonal dynamics within a band as you are having with the dynamics of a friendship. The ideal that "all bands" have one member that they "rip on" is just laughable.

 

But even given that, you are continuing to deflect yourself off the point, into "how bands work" and performance skills, etc. It's not about that, and it never was. It is about how you handled your relationship with her as a person, both as a band member and as a friend. In each case, you treated her with an inexperienced lack of professionalism (as a band member) and with a malicious lack of human care and empathy (as a friend.) As a result, she is no longer in your band (which was your intention all along) and she is no longer your friend (which is now her intention.)

 

Other than your inability to objectively view your own behavior, I just don't see anything surprising about the outcome of this situation. Even without knowing her performance skills, from reading her EMail, I feel that her general approach to band dynamics and personal interaction agrees with mine.

 

Let her go. Let it go.

[crazy_grl]

But, she needs to realize that bands all have one member they rip on. She was that member. She needs to grow a thicker skin if she's ever going to be successful.

 

She's got a new band, co-workers who she's chummy with, friends who like her enough to cast her in a movie role (and they must really like her and think she's special if she's as talentless and underserving as you claim). She's probably got a lot more going on in her life, too. She seems to be doing well.

 

You're the one who has no friends.

 

Somebody needs to realize something, and I don't think it's her. She already realized what she needed to know: you're a jerk and unworthy of her time.

 

Just because you're massively insecure doesn't give you the right to take it out on others... and it doesn't fool anybody. People see it for the weakness it is, not the strength you try to pretend it is. I think she was only friends with you for this long because she felt sorry for you.

[Art_Critic]

Seems to me that you treated her like total crap.. you were abusive to her and she had her limit and told you to take a hike..

At least she woke up and didn't continue to let you treat her like a second class citizen..

You should be ashamed of yourself and she should be proud of the fact that she got rid of the toxic person in her life..

 

I hope that if you only play 6 songs and really do just get wasted and fall all over your own music that you get a wake up call from her email and straighten up..

 

At the very least you need to do some serious introspection and make some apologies to her to straighten out this friendship.. it that is even possible..

[Magnatolia]

Sounds like you're not a friend I would want. You lead a certain life and can't understand why she doesn't want to be the same as you.

[SBBW]

Um, I've tried therapy hun. I really didn't see the point or benfit of paying someone $100 an hour to listen to me talk. I can find people who do that for free.

 

And I don't care if he has a PHd in Psychology, he didn't help me.

 

ANd what is so wrong with self entitlement? I deserve what I have because I worked for it.

[SBBW]

Allright she is no godamn saint people! You guys are all defending her like she's fickin mother Theresa and none of you even know her.

 

I feel I am entitled to her friendship because of all the times she had a bad day and called me up to talk about it. And all the long drives we went on, and all the nights out clubbing and all that. I feel I overestimated her to tell the truth. I thought being a strong person, which I think she is, she would get over this like it was nothing.

[AriaIncognito]

Allright she is no godamn saint people! You guys are all defending her like she's fickin mother Theresa and none of you even know her.

 

 

And notice how nobody on any of these threads has defended you.

 

Food for thought.

[dropdeadlegs]

I went back and read the other two threads so I could better understand the issue behind the email.

 

I hope this has firmly cemented in your mind just how much hurt and anger she is feeling towards you. Yep, she ripped you a good one, but you deserved it.

 

I hope her new band has many live gigs and soon!

 

There have been in excess of 80 posts concerning this saga and I haven't read one that said you were in any way respectful of the friendship. I hope you can now understand that is is over for all intensive purposes. Anyone treated the way she was treated wouldn't be looking for more kicks from their supposed "friend."

 

The fact that she is even speaking to you at all amazes me, yet you expect her to go to Guitar World and have drinks with you like a real friend would do.

 

You, my dear, are no real friend. If anyone is the narcissist in this former relationship, my money is on YOU.

[Trimmer]

And what is so wrong with self entitlement? I deserve what I have because I worked for it.

From that perspective, nothing is wrong with it. But to extend your point, you don't "deserve" your friends unless you work at being a friend, and even then, it's still up to them. The point here is that you can't "claim" them like you would a paycheck for hours worked.

 

I feel I overestimated her to tell the truth. I thought being a strong person, which I think she is, she would get over this like it was nothing.

Even to strong people - perhaps especially to strong people - betrayal of a friendship isn't "nothing." It's actually weak people who can't stand up for themselves who will stay in a relationship in spite of abuse or betrayal, telling themselves "it was nothing."

 

Now, if you had any empathy, any true remorse or regret, and could have communicated that to her, then that might have been a starting point. But "I regret that I lost a friend and the things that I got from her" doesn't do the job - that's still you being self-centered: look how it affects me. If you could put yourself in her shoes, and get to a point where you can truly feel "I regret what I did because of how it made her feel," only then do you have a starting point for a conversation. And if you can't get there (and I don't really hear any movement towards that in your comments here) then just accept her for the decision she made, accept yourself for who you are, and move on and find some friends who can do the same.

 

Um, I've tried therapy hun. I really didn't see the point or benfit of paying someone $100 an hour to listen to me talk.

Actually, the point of therapy is to hear yourself talk. And you're probably right; until you have an interest in that, there is probably no point or benefit.

 

I can find people who do that for free.

Yes, they're called 'friends.' You should get started on some new ones, then.

[SBBW]

Ok... I considered starting a new thread for this rant, but I don't see it necessary.

 

I love Tool. They are about the greatest band ever IMO. Sometimes there music brings tears to my eyes, honestly.

 

Every time they come around, I can never go see them. Either we can't afford it, or we can't find a babysitter, always something. Last time they were here was right around my birthday. My husband's birthday falls around the same time as mine. Well, we couldn't afford to buy tickets.

 

Seeing how the Tool show was a lost cause, I really wanted one of those Coffin Guitar cases. I hinted to the whole band for one. So, my drummer came over one night with presents for both me and my husband. He gave me a Coffin case. Then he gave my husband a ticket to the Tool show! He told me he was going to get me a ticket too, but he knew how bad I wanted a Coffin case because it was all I talked about. If I would have known a Tool ticket was my other choice I'd take that any day over a stupid coffin case!

 

So, hubby and drummer and a few other people went to see Tool while I sat at home. I was so livid mad! And when hubby came home he started to tell me about what a great show it was, but I cut him off, bitcjed him out, and we fought about it.

 

Well, now Tool is coming again. Once again I don't think we can go. But, this now former friend, my ex bandmate who has sparked all these posts, has a blog. I am subscrubed to her blog, even still. She knows this. Well, apparently she is going to see Tool. Her brother invited her. I guess they have kickass seats right up front and her brother has all these connections and he is trying to score some VIP passes. She posted a whole blog about this. She knows I read her blog. She hasn't posted in it in three months, and suddenly this post? It's like she's saying "Neener neener neener!" She knows how bad I want to see these guys and she knew I would read that. It's like a slap in my face!

[mockeryjones]

It's like a slap in my face!

 

considering all that you have posted about this situation, it's a slap in the face that you richly deserve.

[sb129]

Wow, complete and utter denial. I've never seen anyone who can lie to themselves so effectively. It is the strangest sense of self-entitlement based on rampant jealousy, I've ever seen. .

 

Yup TBF. I have just read all three threads with a growing sense of disbelief.

 

Somebody needs to realize something, and I don't think it's her. She already realized what she needed to know: you're a jerk and unworthy of her time.

 

Just because you're massively insecure doesn't give you the right to take it out on others... and it doesn't fool anybody. People see it for the weakness it is, not the strength you try to pretend it is. I think she was only friends with you for this long because she felt sorry for you.

 

Not ONE person on LS is on your side SBBW. Doesn't that tell you something?

 

Seems to me that you treated her like total crap.. you were abusive to her and she had her limit and told you to take a hike..

At least she woke up and didn't continue to let you treat her like a second class citizen..

You should be ashamed of yourself and she should be proud of the fact that she got rid of the toxic person in her life..

At the very least you need to do some serious introspection and make some apologies to her to straighten out this friendship.. it that is even possible..

 

 

 

Wow. All I can say is get over yourself. You come across as someone who feels very entitled and overly self important. You have treated your friend like crap. You put her down to others, make fun of her, make a fool of her with a group of people watching, and then wonder why she won't be your friend. Unbelievable.

 

Unbelievable is right. Get over yourself indeed!

 

And NOW you are bitching because she gets to go and see Tool and you don't? How old are you? 5? No 33- I cannot believe a 33 year old woman would be so downright petty, and despite EVERY person who has replied to your posts telling you how awful you have been, you STILL think you are in the right.

Its a slap in the face that she goes to Tool? You are probably the last thing on her mind when she writes her blog. She is clearly moving on with her life, and good for her! I am happy that she is going to Tool. She sounds like a great person.

 

With friends like you, who needs enemies?

 

BTW, I have seen Tool twice, and they are amazing live.

[SBBW]

^I'm sure they are, but that is not my point.

 

My point is I think she was directing that right at me to annoy me. No blog posts for three months, then suddenly she goes on this long tangent about going to see Tool. Seems suspicious to me.

 

Since I posted my last post here there is something new in her blog... After the whole thing about the Tool show, she included a paragraph about the new band.

 

And then this friend of her's, this 18 year old girl she hangs out with (Why she is hanging out with teenagers is beyond me at this point, something I could never understand about her) But anyway, little miss 18yo teeny bopper makes this comment: "Hey, glad to hear you guys are making a lot of headway. Can't wait to hear you play. Btw is ***** **** looking for somone to replace you? My bother just got a toy keyboard from wal mart for his birthday. Maybe he could help them out, lol."

 

I want to slap some faces about now. This little girl needs to learn to respect her elders!

[sb129]

My point is I think she was directing that right at me to annoy me. No blog posts for three months, then suddenly she goes on this long tangent about going to see Tool. Seems suspicious to me.

 

I want to slap some faces about now. This little girl needs to learn to respect her elders!

 

 

thats because you ARE suspicious. How self absorbed to assume she is only doing it to spite you.

 

Ever think it may actually be because she is excited about going?

What a novel concept.

 

Respect her elders? You? After the "mature" way you treated her?

 

Get a grip.