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-   -   Would it be wrong to send another e-mail? (http://www.loveshack.org/forums/platonic/business-professional-relationships/634396-would-wrong-send-another-e-mail)

PKrueger24 9th September 2017 10:25 AM

Would it be wrong to send another e-mail?
 
This may not fit exactly into 'Business and Professional,' categories, but I thought it may be the best place to put it. Apologies if this entirely the wrong place.


I recently accepted a job in Montreal, and have been living here for about two weeks. I looked into joining a floor hockey league, as I've played for years and hope to keep in shape and be social, and was quite surprised when the guy who runs this league e-mailed me back almost immediately. He said he had a spot for me, and that registration would cost $195 for a 14 game season.


I should note that my job does not pay me a lot of money -- I was [and still am] very new to the city, and feared that I wouldn't have enough money to make ends meet. I was frank with him and thanked him for his help, but explained that it was slightly too costly right now. He said he understood and he'd keep me on a list in case they ever needed a spare player, as sparing is free of charge. I did e-mail afterwards to inquire as to whether they typically prefer money paid at the start of the season or towards he end, but received no reply.


So...after looking at things a bit more closely, this league would be essentially about $14 per game, which is quite reasonable. I've been tempted to write back and mention my availability if they need someone for the season, but I'm reluctant, as I fear I'd come off as being quite strange or rude [perhaps I am, but I still don't wanna make that impression]. And also, given that I'm a stranger to these people and have never played with them before, I really doubt I'll ever get a call to spare for anyone.


So what do you think? Would it be acceptable to send another e-mail? Or just forget it?

anika99 9th September 2017 10:47 AM

I'm not sure what you want to say in your email? Perhaps the guy never responded to your last email because the team is now full but if you now have the $195 then I see nothing wrong with sending him another email letting him know that you can pay the fee. Or do you mean that you want to pay $14 per game? I really doubt they will go for that but I guess you could ask. I have family members who play hockey and as far as I know the registration fee always has to be paid in full and upfront.

preraph 9th September 2017 12:59 PM

I think he's assuming that since you were surprised by the fee, that you are probably very inexperienced and not been on a team before. I wouldn't contact him at all until you have the full fee and are ready to join without hesitation. You might have to wait until next year. Then you can start fresh.

ChatroomHero 9th September 2017 1:00 PM

I have run a large league and managed teams for almost 20 years. The issue is when you owe fees, the managers or leagues pay up front often months before the season starts. We might have 5+ people per team struggling to pay or avoiding paying for as long as they can, so what happens is when money is due we will front $1500 of our own money whether we have it or not, so you not being able to pay say $195 at once kind of screws us more. You can't afford $195, but if I add you I have to now front $1700 and hope I get it back whenever you happen to have it. Then I get to go to the bar after games and watch you drop $30 for beer and food while you still owe me money...and deal with the I'll give you $20 next Wednesday bs, and next Wednesday you are dressed and gone before everyone else and forget, or miss the game.... Lol.

So like you say you have a hard time coming up with $195, how would you like it if the guy said its $195 to play but if you could pay $900 upfront to cover a couple of other players that can't afford to pay and he might give you most of that extra $700 back at $14 per game if and when those other players show up and pay, how would you feel? Would that be OK for him to ask of you?

You are asking a stranger for a loan is what it comes down to and if you skip a game or don't have $14 one game...he gets to give a free loan out of his pocket that he knows he prob won't ever recover 1/2 the money from.

Frankly if there was a team desperate for a body to fill a spot, they might be willing to work with you. The problem is you want to do something you admit you can't afford right now, but you are asking if it is OK to do it at the expense of others. Heck, you could go to a cash advance place or put it on a new credit card and take on all the negative consequences of borrowing money yourself if u wanted to. You could ask your company for an extra $200 advance you pay back over the next 3 paychecks...but that is what a stand up adult does.

If you want to be a stand up person and a worthy adult, the answer is you cannot afford it so you cannot do it. If you want to be a leech and a bit of a user and immature, by all means see if you can get charity from a stranger for a non essential activity. Who cares about integrity anyway, right?

PKrueger24 9th September 2017 1:41 PM

Hi,
Thanks for the thorough response. I guess I wasn't being quite clear in my initial post. I certainly did not intend to ask this person for money, nor any sort of favor, as you say.

I suppose I considered the fee afterwards and realized that the total of 195 for the season really amounted to 14 dollars per game. I don't earn much, but I got to thinking that this was not an unreasonable amount, and I do think I'd be able to afford that. The only thing I was wondering was whether it'd be appropriate to contact this person or not, as I already effectively bowed out on the basis of cost. I just thought I'd come off as annoying or desperate to email him again and essentially say "Hey, on second thought, I do have enough money after all. Is there still a spot for me?"

I'm sorry you've had bad experiences in running your own league and I do understand league managers have a lot of red tape and administrative stuff to take care of. I understand my question may have been unclear and you were simply being frank with me, but you're rambling and insulting response is not appreciated and really is quite uncalled for, largely because it's based on assumption (i..e, that I'm asking this person for money). Perhaps we should take our own advice with respect to maturity or not being a loser.

Anyhow, just thought I'd clear up a few things. Again, thanks for the reply and have a nice weekend.

ChatroomHero 11th September 2017 1:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PKrueger24 (Post 7411597)

Anyhow, just thought I'd clear up a few things. Again, thanks for the reply and have a nice weekend.


Let me clear it up for you a bit:


"I did e-mail afterwards to inquire as to whether they typically prefer money paid at the start of the season or towards he end, but received no reply."


That's a quote from your first post. I responded to your post. Now you are changing the story and adding a twist when in fact you specifically stated you asked if people pay toward the end, obviously because you can't come up with $195 right now.


One would have to suspend all rational thought to think anyone would run a league and not need payment until "towards the end". I gave you the benefit of the doubt there because I cannot believe you were so na´ve to think any sports league would be "pay at the end of the season". What I said was spot on, sorry it hit a sore spot but that is on you and not me. Hopefully next year you can properly afford it.

PKrueger24 11th September 2017 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChatroomHero (Post 7413171)
Let me clear it up for you a bit:


"I did e-mail afterwards to inquire as to whether they typically prefer money paid at the start of the season or towards he end, but received no reply."


That's a quote from your first post. I responded to your post. Now you are changing the story and adding a twist when in fact you specifically stated you asked if people pay toward the end, obviously because you can't come up with $195 right now.


One would have to suspend all rational thought to think anyone would run a league and not need payment until "towards the end". I gave you the benefit of the doubt there because I cannot believe you were so na´ve to think any sports league would be "pay at the end of the season". What I said was spot on, sorry it hit a sore spot but that is on you and not me. Hopefully next year you can properly afford it.




Hello,
Thanks again for "clearing it up." I hope you had a nice weekend.


I'm not sure what you think you said that was "spot on." About me not having much money right now? Sure, I'd even admit that. About me asking an admittedly irrational question? Sure, I'll even give you that. Let's call it a lapse in judgement and, sure, being na´ve on my part.


I'll admit to you that when I lived in another province before the move to Montreal, I played in a semi-pro 5-pin bowling league for years. The set-up there was that we'd pay a $20/game every Sunday, and as the season came to a close, league managers would post reminders on each team's envelop about who still owed what amount. If that amount was not paid by the last game of the season, it simply came out of the person's winnings on the last night. So for example, if someone was supposed to win $150 on the final game of the season and still owed $80, their total winnings would be, of course, $70. Was that system effective? I have to think so. It has been running for years and still has regular league members. Was it an ideal system from a managerial point of view? I guess that depends who you ask. I would have to conjecture that from your point of view, I suppose not.


As to everything else you say you are "spot on" about, I question that. I cannot stress enough that I was not "asking a stranger for a charity," and despite what you say, my "sore spot" is quite justified, as being character assassinated by someone online is something I cannot help address [if you need a refresher, please refer to your previous post, wherein you referred to be as a "user, a bit immature," and implied I was not a "worthwhile person." You are, of course, entitled to your opinion of me, but I am likewise entitled to respond in kind.


To return, I can see your point on how my question would be perceived as, at best, na´ve, and at worst, miserly, na´ve, and thick-headed. If that is what you are suggesting, well, I posted this question and I guess I must accept that opinion, even though I strongly disagree with it.


To your points, you're claiming I added some sort of "twist" to my post, even though that is not the case. Sorry, but you failing to understand a question does not constitute a "twist" in a story. And though I hate to say it, I can't help that your struggles as a "league manager," may result from your own shortcomings as an administrator. For example, in your initial disjointed post, you went on some strange tangent from talking about how fees are paid to "going out to a bar and watching a guy drop money for food or beer." Huh? Sorry you've had a hard time in your own league, but if you can't make payment methods clear or properly manage a league, perhaps you should stick to fantasy leagues.


Once again, thanks for taking the time to post a thorough [even if disjointed and somewhat incoherent] initial response, and then returning to "clear up," your misinformed points. To sum up, even if my email was admittedly misguided [at best], I suppose I asked merely because in my own experience, even though it was in a different sport, some leagues may accept installations of payments, or may even simply deduct your money owed from your total winnings. Again, perhaps flawed, but it happens.


As a final note, it may help to refrain from engaging in insulting responses to [even apparently foolish] questions. Fact is, there is always a person on the other side of the screen, and you'd do well to keep that in mind from here on. Yes, I do know my responses have been quite scathing, for lack of a better word, but I would again add that I am merely responding to unjust insults.


Have a nice week.

CC12 12th September 2017 2:19 AM

Your original question:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PKrueger24 (Post 7411471)
So what do you think? Would it be acceptable to send another e-mail? Or just forget it?

Yes, it would be acceptable to send another email.

You can literally just say the bolded:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PKrueger24 (Post 7411597)
I just thought I'd come off as annoying or desperate to email him again and essentially say "Hey, on second thought, I do have enough money after all. Is there still a spot for me?"

Unless you were rude or annoying when you originally told him you don't have the money, it would be completely fine to email that sentence to him. It's a club you're trying to join, not a romantic interest you rejected and are crawling back to.

I think some people might have thought you were asking for a favor or a loan or whatever from the team because you were asking about a totally normal request. "Hey, I got the money, can I join?" is basically what everyone else on the team asked.

So why do you think you're uneasy about sending this email? Is this maybe a social anxiety thing?

d0nnivain 12th September 2017 7:47 AM

If you now have all the money & are wiling to commit, do send another email.
I have managed to work things out. I'd still love to play if you have room. Where can I send my check?
Don't go into a lengthy explanation. Just pay. No one cares about anything other than whether your check clears & you show up

ChatroomHero 12th September 2017 8:44 AM

"you say, my "sore spot" is quite justified, as being character assassinated by someone online is something I cannot help address [if you need a refresher, please refer to your previous post, wherein you referred to be as a "user, a bit immature," and implied I was not a "worthwhile person." You are, of course, entitled to your opinion of me, but I am likewise entitled to respond in kind. "


You don't really know what character assassination means.


In your rambling response you just dodge the issue. You know darn well a league like that is not pay as you go as opposed to how bowling leagues go. You asked the guy, he told you $195 to play. He did not say it's $14 a game. Let's not play na´ve. You're really straining to do some explaining.


The answer would be simple. If you realized on second thought you had $195 you could come up with, there really is no question that you would just email him back and say, "Hey, I have the money, I am still interested".


The whole...you couldn't afford $195 but when you thought about it, it was only $14 a game so suddenly you could afford $195 garbage, I mean come on. It doesn't matter if it equated to only 5 cents per game or $50 per game, it was $195 either way and you cannot afford that. You wanted to email him back to fish around and see if you could pay on different terms so you could play.

PKrueger24 12th September 2017 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChatroomHero (Post 7413824)
"you say, my "sore spot" is quite justified, as being character assassinated by someone online is something I cannot help address [if you need a refresher, please refer to your previous post, wherein you referred to be as a "user, a bit immature," and implied I was not a "worthwhile person." You are, of course, entitled to your opinion of me, but I am likewise entitled to respond in kind. "


You don't really know what character assassination means.


In your rambling response you just dodge the issue. You know darn well a league like that is not pay as you go as opposed to how bowling leagues go. You asked the guy, he told you $195 to play. He did not say it's $14 a game. Let's not play na´ve. You're really straining to do some explaining.


The answer would be simple. If you realized on second thought you had $195 you could come up with, there really is no question that you would just email him back and say, "Hey, I have the money, I am still interested".


The whole...you couldn't afford $195 but when you thought about it, it was only $14 a game so suddenly you could afford $195 garbage, I mean come on. It doesn't matter if it equated to only 5 cents per game or $50 per game, it was $195 either way and you cannot afford that. You wanted to email him back to fish around and see if you could pay on different terms so you could play.




Well, I hope you didn't pull a hamstring jumping to your latest conclusions.


Listen, my "rambling" responses have articulately and systematically dismantled each of your barely-coherent arguments, and if that's problematic for you, well, sorry. To recap some of your illogical and assumption-based "arguments."


"You are asking for a charity from a stranger."
False. Once again, speaking from personal experience, different leagues have different payment methods. I know you've had trouble getting your own league members to pay their dues, but that's sure not mine or anyone else's problem.


"You are being a user, a bit immature, and not a worthwhile human being."


False. You failing to understand a very simply question which, interestingly enough no one else but you has apparently struggled to understand, does not say anything about my character [and yes, I do know what character assassination means, thanks].


"One would have to suspend all rational thought to think a sport league accepts payment 'towards the end' of a season."


False. See my argument about the bowling league [who apparently are superior league managers to you. Also, I still don't understand where your strange and completely random tangent about going to a bar came from, but then why try to understand nonsense, I suppose].


"You knew darn well ...."
False. I knew nothing "darn well," and so I resent your implications otherwise. Listen, you are obviously less intelligent than me and clearly a sad excuse of a league manager. In fact, I seriously doubt you've even managed anything. I mean, if it is true you have in fact "run large leagues for almost 20 years," one would have to think that somewhere along the way, if you were struggling to collect payments on time, you'd start running your leagues differently at some point, no? If you've been burned in the past but people who were reluctant to pay, and yet to fail to address this accordingly, you can't be surprised when nothing changes. Again, not my problem.


So since you're apparently lacking in the areas of comprehension, I don't expect any sort of reasonable response out of you. I tried to have some least somewhat polite dialogue with you, which I venture to think is more than you'd have done if someone responded to you in such a way, and yet you decided to engage with someone more intelligent than you and respond with assumption and strange tangents. The only one "dodging the issues," my friend, is you. And once again, I don't actually believe you've ever managed anything in your life.

ChatroomHero 13th September 2017 6:43 AM

You can't afford $200 and your other posts claim you have no friends. By all means, tell me your opinion of me rather than look at yourself and your failures in being an adult.

PKrueger24 13th September 2017 8:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChatroomHero (Post 7414492)
You can't afford $200 and your other posts claim you have no friends. By all means, tell me your opinion of me rather than look at yourself and your failures in being an adult.


Ah yes, the hallmark of the typical bully. You could never outdo me in intelligence, so instead you avoid my previous points, most likely because you know they are true and you have no intelligent response to them, so you avoid it altogether and once again go on a tangent.


In another lifetime, I'd most likely let this comment go, but in this lifetime I cannot. You claim I'm a "failure" due to my income, and while I will admit I will never be wealthy, my job is a respectable once which I wanted to do my whole life. Actually getting this job is something I never thought I'd do, so while I'll never be wealthy, I will also, barring extraordinary circumstances, never live in poverty, and I also have a job which provides me with incredible happiness and self-fulfillment. So for that reason, I am most certainly not a "failure" based on my income.


To your point about my not having friends. I've struggled for most of my life with social anxiety, as well as OCD, and at my lowest point with this, I was too anxious to even leave the house to get a coffee most days, as I thought others were "judging" me, and so I was paralyzed with anxiety. I could not imagine ever having friends, much less joining any kind of league or holding down a job where I'm required to be around many people for 95% of the day.


I also battled a 2-year long drug addiction and eating disorder, both of which nearly killed me, and both stemmed from my anxiety. I'm now one year sober from drugs and still struggle with the eating disorder, but I hope to get there at some point. Still, the fact that I'm still here to type this is something, I suppose, and is clear proof that I'm not a "failure."


I don't know you, I'll never know you, and I frankly don't type this in hopes of evoking any sense of understanding from you. Instead, if you want to talk about failure, I'll once again cite the fact that you want me to believe you've somehow "managed a large league for almost 20 years," and by your own admission, you've struggled to collect payment from your league members consistently and on time. That, my friend, is the very definition of a failure, as you are, of course, failing to regulate the arguably most essential part of any managerial role, which is to collect all funds and ensure they are paid on time. Again, you're a failure.


So if having a low income, but great personal fulfillment and still being able to pay the bills and have some comfort is a failure to you, then sure, I guess I am. If making some bad choices along the way and getting more involved with drugs than I ever should have a failure to you, then I guess I am that as well, even though I am now sober. If struggling with such mental illness as social anxiety, anorexia nervosa, and OCD makes me a failure, even if I continue to struggle with these problems, then I guess that sums it up, I'm a failure.


How old are you? That's something I want you to think about the next time you post on this forum. In your previous post, you criticize me for "dodging the issue," when in truth it was a matter of you simply lacking the intelligence to construct an argument which could not be easily dismantled. Now you post here in an effort to have the "last word" in a discussion, much like an immature child would do, and in fact cannot respond with any kind of intelligent argument beyond "you're a failure."


But as you say in your first post, who cares about integrity, right?

angel.eyes 13th September 2017 6:44 PM

Do you have $195 to pay the coordinator now???

That's the amount he asked for. How about a little extra for the incidental (but not optional) extras that invariably come up with playing in a sports league?

If you don't, then don't contact the coordinator. If you do, then by all means, reach out and see if he'll still consider having you in his league.

TBH, it sounds as if you can barely afford your brand new living situation of two weeks. In your shoes, I would focus on getting my finances in better shape before I took on optional expenses that I wasn't even sure I could handle.

You just moved. You aren't in any position to predict reliably what your expenses are going to look like over the course of the next six months or a year. That's critical when, as you state, you don't have any financial buffer.

Revisit getting involved in a league in a year. In the meanwhile, if you do end up having any extra money, sock it away in a rainy day fund. You need something to tide you over should you lose this dream job of yours.


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