Someone is about to have a dday

[sandylee1]

It's come out that someone (male) at work has been using his work phone to make an awful lot of calls to a particular number. The number belongs to a female coworker.

 

He was kinda shifty when asked about the volume of calls and said they supported each other with work. There's way too many calls and texts for that and she wouldn't be the one best placed to support him. I could see his chest rise and fall and he went bright red when questioned.

 

I requested his phone and got our IT department to recover the messages. They aren't work related and he's a MM. I'd love to send them to his wife so she can see what a sneaky toerag he is, but only someone in a certain position would be able to get hold of them and I can't out myself.

 

I'm just thinking how else she'll find out the truth. Any ideas?

 

I asked another guy a general question about him and it turns out his wife previously noticed the call volume of this number and called him out on it. That was on his personal cell phone. So he clearly went underground and only uses his work phone to contact the OW.

 

He could loose his job as a result of this and he'll probably lie to his wife about the reason, but I think she should know what he's been up to.

[Got it]

It's come out that someone (male) at work has been using his work phone to make an awful lot of calls to a particular number. The number belongs to a female coworker.

 

He was kinda shifty when asked about the volume of calls and said they supported each other with work. There's way too many calls and texts for that and she wouldn't be the one best placed to support him. I could see his chest rise and fall and he went bright red when questioned.

 

I requested his phone and got our IT department to recover the messages. They aren't work related and he's a MM. I'd love to send them to his wife so she can see what a sneaky toerag he is, but only someone in a certain position would be able to get hold of them and I can't out myself.

 

I'm just thinking how else she'll find out the truth. Any ideas?

 

I asked another guy a general question about him and it turns out his wife previously noticed the call volume of this number and called him out on it. That was on his personal cell phone. So he clearly went underground and only uses his work phone to contact the OW.

 

He could loose his job as a result of this and he'll probably lie to his wife about the reason, but I think she should know what he's been up to.

 

Absolutely do not do that. You are putting yourself in jeopardy in losing your job. If you are in a position of authority to be able to get his messages you are in a high enough position to know that investigations should be kept confidential.

 

It is not your job to get involved in his personal life and whether or not his wife knows has zero impact on the company. Do not blur your personal feelings with work. Your HR and Legal department should have a very clear understanding of this and if you are HR you really have to know the line to walk. Leaking confidential investigation information is the number one way the door.

 

I am confused on why he would lose his job but assume there is some sort of policy violation he has done to warrant it.

 

My best advice for you is to walk away from this thought. Is this really worth losing your job over?

[jen1447]

^ Yes, and you could conceivably even leave your company vulnerable to legal troubles, as informing his wife has absolutely nothing to do with your professional responsibilities and would likely constitute what could be seen as a damaging and reckless overreach outside your area of legitimate interest.

[sandylee1]

Oh no. I'd never divulge any confidential info like that EVER. It's way more than my jobs worth.

 

There are good reasons why he'd loose his job... for one he's using the phone for personal use. That in itself is fraud. The other reasons are even more serious than the actual financial side of things, but I can't disclose for obvious reasons.

 

Last time we had a couple of affair partners going into the toilets at work for their tryst. That's why when people say my husband or wife has no time for an affair... he/she comes straight home.... I just think mmmm ... if they want to ... they will find the time. NEVER have 100% trust.

 

I just feel sorry for the poor BW who was deceived that it was just a friendly relationship between the two.... when it clearly isn't. I think a couple of coworkers on the same level as them know about it or at least suspect and his wife has a friend who works there... so that may be how it gets back to her. I believe that's why she questioned him the first time.

 

He could end up with no job and no wife and all for what ... sex.

 

Anyway I'm sure he'll think of a reason to tell her why he's lost his job if it comes to that. Cheaters are pretty good at coming up with lies after all.

[Got it]

It's odd that the use of the phone is viewed as fraud. Most companies allow/don't mandate work phones as purely work unless they are in a high clearance position/company. We are pretty generic with our policy and know that work phones actually becomes personal phones as well (we allow employees who need company phones to either get another phones that would be their work phone or get a phone for both uses. If they leave we terminate their phone, we wipe it of work emails and give them information on how to port it over to their personal account. Just like we know that we have employees that will get personal emails on their work address and do not monitor for use.

 

Just not a company that likes to big brother.

[EmbraceTheChange]

Oh gosh, yes, I would send a message to his wife to let her know that something is happening between her husband and the co-worker, rumors are flying at work and management is starting to be aware of it. You need to let her know that you don't have any horses in the race (so she doesn't think you are a disgruntled co-worker and flips you off), and also add facts, like they go for lunches together and come back 2 hrs later, go for walks, constantly on the phone to each other, etc - basically credible facts that her husband can't twist into "we are friends and I was helping her with work". And with mentioning that management is getting onto her husband and OW, she will be aware that it's not only is her marriage on the line, but his job too. Which suddenly turns this "friendship" with OW into serious ****.

[TaraMaiden2]

When I worked at a Garden Centre, one of the senior managers there was having an affair with one of the assistants.

 

Anyone who's ever had dealings with a Garden centre will know that sometimes, due to deliveries and professional commitments, the day starts a good while before 'opening hours'. Particularly if a certain Dutch company is delivering a lorryload of conifers, or we're expecting Rockery equipment from Spain....... So it was extremely easy for this guy to have his affair with this young woman, by getting to work early for some such reason.....

 

A Fellow manager created herself a new email address, and sent the wife a one-line message:

 

"Ask your H what he was doing on *such-and-such* a morning, with Miss *so-and-so* because I can demonstrate we had no deliveries or out-of-hours work scheduled that morning."

 

To say the economy bag of manure hit the Greenhouse ventilator, would be an understatement....

[anika99]

It's odd that the use of the phone is viewed as fraud. Most companies allow/don't mandate work phones as purely work unless they are in a high clearance position/company. We are pretty generic with our policy and know that work phones actually becomes personal phones as well (we allow employees who need company phones to either get another phones that would be their work phone or get a phone for both uses. If they leave we terminate their phone, we wipe it of work emails and give them information on how to port it over to their personal account. Just like we know that we have employees that will get personal emails on their work address and do not monitor for use.

 

Just not a company that likes to big brother.

 

Where I work it would depend on how excessive the calls were and if the calls were made during working hours. I don't think my company would have a problem with the occasional quick personal call during a break or after work, but to have excessive personal contact through the phone or internet during working hours would definitely be viewed as a misuse of company property and company time, a sort of theft. I work from home, I have a phone, a computer and an Internet connection in my house all paid for by my company yet I still pay for my own personal phone and Internet because it was made clear to me that I'm not to be on their equipment (including the phone) or their Internet for non business purposes.

[sandylee1]

It's odd that the use of the phone is viewed as fraud. Most companies allow/don't mandate work phones as purely work unless they are in a high clearance position/company. We are pretty generic with our policy and know that work phones actually becomes personal phones as well (we allow employees who need company phones to either get another phones that would be their work phone or get a phone for both uses. If they leave we terminate their phone, we wipe it of work emails and give them information on how to port it over to their personal account. Just like we know that we have employees that will get personal emails on their work address and do not monitor for use.

 

Just not a company that likes to big brother.

 

All company tech is for business only. That includes phones and laptops/tablets.

 

It was excessive use which is why it got noticed really. The odd personal call would not find you in trouble, but our policies are very clear on this.

 

He's tried to say it was work related, but the calls and texts are at all hours of the day, so I don't believe it for one minute. They are quite a large team and it's only these two who have such regular contact .

 

He's already been caught in one straight up lie anyway and unfortunately for him with my experience of cheaters, he won't wriggle very far at all.

 

Not only is it fraud in terms of the cost of calls, but the time he (and her) should be working (as they are being paid to) is spent on their lovers conversations and the company shouldn't have to pick up the bill for their shenanigans.

 

I think he probably wishes he stopped when his wife first called him out. I hear so many BSs say contact stopped on dday and I just think , but how do you reslly know. Having seen the things I have.. I don't think I could ever trust anyone who cheated on me.

 

I can certainly make sure that he gets limited time with the OW at work by assigning him on other duties quite legitimately and he knows it.... but it's not my job to stop his affair , though I can make things more difficult for the two of them to hook up at work..

[sandylee1]

Oh gosh, yes, I would send a message to his wife to let her know that something is happening between her husband and the co-worker, rumors are flying at work and management is starting to be aware of it. You need to let her know that you don't have any horses in the race (so she doesn't think you are a disgruntled co-worker and flips you off), and also add facts, like they go for lunches together and come back 2 hrs later, go for walks, constantly on the phone to each other, etc - basically credible facts that her husband can't twist into "we are friends and I was helping her with work". And with mentioning that management is getting onto her husband and OW, she will be aware that it's not only is her marriage on the line, but his job too. Which suddenly turns this "friendship" with OW into serious ****.

 

She knows who the OW is. He lied and gaslit by saying it was just a coworker, then stopped using his personal cell phone. His wife was already tipped off so it won't be a big suprise... she thought the friendship had stopped.

 

They try to be discreet at work because he's married of course, but people aren't stupid.

[Emilia]

Sounds like you need a new job because you are not busy enough. He may have broken company regulations with his phone but pretty sure you are breaking plenty by spending far more time on this than you should. I can't believe IT released that phone/txt info to you, whatever happened to data protection?

 

I think your behaviour is unprofessional OP, it's like a knitting circle, just stay out of it.

[GemmaUK]

You seem to know an awful lot about this.

I take it you and his wife have already been in contact about when she called him out previously?

Otherwise its only hearsay. Isn't it?

 

I also wonder why the female co-worker has not been treated in the same way as he has?

You say it's a big team so if you are at the level where you have access to his phone records and also can change his workload it makes me wonder why you are not talking about them both in the same light.

 

Surely the professional issue here is incorrect use of company equipment and not incorrect use of company equipment because one of them is married.

In a professional sense their relationships statuses are irrelevant.

[jen1447]

Not only is it fraud in terms of the cost of calls,

 

I realize I'm being pedantic here, sorry (and your company's policies are their policies regardless), but virtually all cellular plans today - and certainly group plans - have a flat rate for your phone service. So essentially you can make 1 call a month or 1000 calls a month for the same cost. Unless you're calling a far-off land or sth.

 

I get a company phone as a perk and they assume it will be used for personal stuff as well as professional and they don't care. I mean if it was discovered that I was using it to make plans to blow things up I'm sure that'd be a concern, but they're not interested in my 1 am romantic texts to whoever.

[Got it]

I did want to point on on the messages piece as well, if those are texts I would be shocked you got them from the phone provider. From our experience, even if it's a company phone we need a subpoena to get the information and it is still very hard. We have needed it for litigation and it was a b&tch and a half trying to get it and were unsuccessful. So unless someone was doing screen shots of their texts, or not erasing and turned over their phone there is close to impossible to retrieve.

 

IT can scrub for emails as that goes through the company servers and should have back up.

 

I agree with Jen, we have flat rates so upgrades, etc. are all interchangeable. There is no set plans per phone.

 

Are you following an actual procedure here? You are commenting you can make it hard for them to interact but if he is being terminated then that is really quite pointless. Do you have actual say in the outcome?

 

Also aren't you spending company time on the computer on LS? Isn't that a misuse of company time and equipment?

 

If someone breaks policies and warrants termination then absolutely they should be terminated. But it seems like there is almost a level of giddiness here that is kind of odd.

 

This should be more of a performance focus than because it was an affair. Unless they are supervisor/subordinate it really doesn't matter. Why so much focus on the affair (from a professional standpoint)? Would it have been an issue if they were single and found out to be dating? What is your company's dating policy?

[GorillaTheater]

I'd say he's lucky he doesn't work for a public entity. Depending on the state, those messages/emails/texts would likely be accessible to anyone for the asking under open records/public information laws.

 

 

This is a private entity, right?

[jen1447]

I'd say he's lucky he doesn't work for a public entity. Depending on the state, those messages/emails/texts would likely be accessible to anyone for the asking under open records/public information laws.

 

 

This is a private entity, right?

 

Public entities are subject to FOIA laws (with some exceptions), but not the private entity service providers that serve them. You can't FOIA the phone company.

[GorillaTheater]

Public entities are subject to FOIA laws (with some exceptions), but not the private entity service providers that serve them. You can't FOIA the phone company.

 

 

Right, but texts or emails from a public employer-issued (or paid for) phone, desk top or other electronic device are generally subject to PIA requests, at least here.

 

 

And it seems like I've heard of an affair in another state where all of the texts and emails came to light due to that state's equivalent of the PIA. As I recall, one of the parties was the mayor.

[jen1447]

Right, but texts or emails from a public employer-issued (or paid for) phone, desk top or other electronic device are generally subject to PIA requests, at least here.

 

 

And it seems like I've heard of an affair in another state where all of the texts and emails came to light due to that state's equivalent of the PIA. As I recall, one of the parties was the mayor.

 

That would be dependent on the public entity's either possession of or ability to obtain texts from the cellular provider, and as Got_It said, that can be near impossible. Providers will usually give it up to law enforcement, eventually, but that's about it. Sometimes it's almost impossible to get your own texts when you're their client. E-mails would be a different story and much easier to obtain.

 

Then there's the matter of privacy tho. It you were just a random asking for some public official's private communications, if you got them at all, most likely they'd be redacted to hell on privacy grounds and all you'd be left with would be time stamps and the words "the" and "and" and stuff like that.

 

When news organizations get those kinds of records for their big scoops on government corruption etc., they usually get them from information brokers (who get the records via pretext and other potentially shady means), not via FOIAs to the targeted entities. They generally don't have to (and won't) give up their sources so ....done deal.

[preraph]

Fire him with reason given something to do with fraternizing with female at work. That's about as far as you can go. If she wants to believe his excuses, she will, but she won't be happy he got fired. It could be the best thing for her, him having to switch jobs.

[GorillaTheater]

It also depends on whether the texts are recoverable from the device itself, and to what extent information in the hands of a third party is within the "control" of the public entity. In the situation you're talking about, it's pretty clear that the messages aren't within the control of the governmental unit.

 

 

For crying out loud.

[sandylee1]

You seem to know an awful lot about this.

I take it you and his wife have already been in contact about when she called him out previously?

Otherwise its only hearsay. Isn't it?

 

I also wonder why the female co-worker has not been treated in the same way as he has?

You say it's a big team so if you are at the level where you have access to his phone records and also can change his workload it makes me wonder why you are not talking about them both in the same light.

 

Surely the professional issue here is incorrect use of company equipment and not incorrect use of company equipment because one of them is married.

In a professional sense their relationships statuses are irrelevant.

 

I know a lot about it because I need to gather info and make decisions based on the facts and evidence.

 

It's not hearsay regarding his wife and I haven't had a convo with her. I don't know her personally.

 

He is the one who used company equipment for personal use and not the female coworker.

 

The outcome would be the same regardless of marital status. People can cheat all they like, but this affair had/has an impact on work otherwise I wouldn't know about it.

 

No personal relationships should impact on your job, otherwise that's when trouble comes your way as in this case.

[Scorpio Chick]

Any company I have ever worked for most definitely puts a restriction on the use of the phone for business only and I think that is right, fair and legitimate.

 

I am presently unemployed and job hunting and it irritates me that this MM uses a company's time for his illicit personal stuff. I think if it gets proven he is using the business phone to place calls to another employee for the purposes of conducting an affair, he should be canned! Are they paying him to conduct his affair or work? Give me his job, I won't abuse the privilege of having it!! Also, the female coworker is just as guilty.

[sandylee1]

To clarify a few points:

 

- it is my job to deal with this matter, so I have to spend time on it -not being involved is not

an option

 

- there is a cost to the calls made. Our cell phone plans must differ to yours Jen

 

- my organisation is not in the USA, so all the state laws don't apply

 

- the phone is company property and the company has every right

 

to access information. It's been done before and used as evidence.

 

- there isn't a fraternisation policy. People can have relationships with who they want, but

it can't be with a direct report or it can't impact on your work or potentially influence your

decision making.

 

- Our policies are very clear on the use of company property, but my experience is that

employees always try and deny they knew when they find themselves in such situations

 

- few calls here and there wouldn't be an issue. It's the excessive usage and the time that

work isn't being done while their chatting away. They obviously have a lot to talk about as

they can't talk when he's home with his wife.

 

 

People get together and go on to get married and have a family in some cases in the company and we wouldn't want to put a stop to any of that at all.

 

Other people in their team are couples as well ... that's not the issue. Those people aren't spending their time chatting on work phones and yes I am informed of some of the relationships, so a decision can be made on whether it's too close and one of them needs to be moved elsewhere.

 

If he had a burner phone we'd be none the wiser, but that must have been a risk for him on the home front.

[bluefeather]

Whether you take action or not, it's not your business to relay to anyone else. That is my opinion.

[minimariah]

If he had a burner phone we'd be none the wiser, but that must have been a risk for him on the home front.

 

most MMs i know have a burner phone & leave it at work, in a locked drawer; that being said... i always find it odd when people use work phone & mail for affairs. but there are some companies that don't really monitor who you talk to or who you email during the work hours as long as you get the job done.

 

i wouldn't do anything if i were you - i'd probably warn him to stop using the company's equipment if that's against your policy but you never know what goes in his marriage, his affair, maybe he loves his OW and is planning to actually leave... the options are endless.

 

stay out of it, it's by far the best thing to do.