Maternity leave & then leave

[edgygirl]

So this Senior person at work took the all the maternity leave months the company provides as part of the benefits package, came back and a week later it's been announced she's leaving next week.

 

Ethical or unethical?

 

Also, her position is quite critical, and there's no replacement and it will be hard to find someone. I don't know the inside story, perhaps she did announce it to leadership a while ago.

 

I know she is entitled to, no unlawful thing done, but still...

 

Opinions?

[Tayla]

people can do as they please involving staying or leaving.

 

we stopped force labor years ago.

 

Glad she made a decision that works for her life.

 

Personally I stopped thinking an employee owes their company any notice since the employer certainly are well and capable of firing on a whim. Equal play.

[Got it]

There should be succession planning so positions are able to be refilled. She was out on maternity leave, was the work just sitting? Most likely someone was covering it so a replacement can be found.

 

It is the price of doing business. While it isn't ideal, most parting of ways leaves someone left in a hard spot.

[TaraMaiden2]

I know it is deeply frustrating for many companies to employ ladies of a certain age, maybe married a year or two, who announce one day (after their training and probationary period has elapsed) that Surprise!! They're pregnant!

 

Law in the UK stipulates that it is discrimination to even suggest a question regarding child-bearing plans to female applicants of jobs. You cannot ask any leading questions which might be viewed as prejudicial to their application or suitability, surrounding familial intentions, or status.

 

I myself, many years ago, was asked whether having 2 young children at home, would pose a problem for me.

My response was to ask, "I'f I were a 32-year-old man with two young children, would you be asking me that question?"

 

The interviewer foot-shuffled, metaphorically speaking and admitted that no, he wouldn't.....

 

That kind of question is now actually illegal.

 

So a Company has no way of being able to evaluate a person's staying power, or whether they will be a waste of resources, time and money.

 

I do not entirely blame women though.

It would be a questionable practice if men could also child-bear.

But the scales are weighted against us.

 

We are required to perform exactly as men can. Sometimes, in order to prove our mettle, we have to out-perform them, to merely be considered equal and up to par.

We are expected to hold down a job, rise to the challenge, and succeed; all the while also being expected to juggle a family life, look attractive, raise our children, and still get home to cook dinner and perform domestic tasks.

 

I don't know what solution there is to such situations.

[ufo8mycat]

So this Senior person at work took the all the maternity leave months the company provides as part of the benefits package, came back and a week later it's been announced she's leaving next week.

 

Ethical or unethical?

 

Also, her position is quite critical, and there's no replacement and it will be hard to find someone. I don't know the inside story, perhaps she did announce it to leadership a while ago.

 

I know she is entitled to, no unlawful thing done, but still...

 

Opinions?

 

It happens, while as a manager it is infuriating there isn't much you can do. You also don't know what discussions were had behind closed doors, how her maternity leave and return to work were managed.

 

I have known women who have done this and in each case, it was due to the company making returning to work at the same level and equivalent duties difficult. So they sought more family friendly options elsewhere.

[edgygirl]

The work was just picked up by all the more senior people, such as me (about 8 people in total at this office). Quality suffered immensely, as we are all super busy as is. It's extremely difficult to find someone for the same position and I know it will take months. That's what happened for an equivalent position that was recently filled.

 

The position above her of leader of the whole studio has also been vacant for 8 months now as they also can't find the right person...

 

It's interesting, I never worked in a company where they really took their time to find THE right person like this... and leave a position open for months on end.

 

I started talking with them in March and only got an offer in October after almost a dozen phone and live interviews. It's kinda crazy there.

 

There should be succession planning so positions are able to be refilled. She was out on maternity leave, was the work just sitting? Most likely someone was covering it so a replacement can be found.

 

It is the price of doing business. While it isn't ideal, most parting of ways leaves someone left in a hard spot.

[edgygirl]

I dunno, for some reason, I believe companies (in the US) give maternity leave as an incentive to their employees who of course deserve to have maternity leave and be with their baby.

 

But if you know you want to leave the company, maybe the moral thing to do would be to leave BEFORE you have a child, not after you take advantage of the company's benefits. It rubbed me the wrong way although of course companies don't think much about the employee's well being when letting them go "at will".

 

I wish all countries had the same leave benefits such as Canada etc. do.

[carhill]

Between your story here and the other work-related thread you started, I'd take a hard look at the competition.

 

Expect employees to use every trick in the book to benefit themselves and to take full, complete and excessive to the absolute boundary of the law, advantage of every generosity an employer offers. Sure, some might employ a sense of fair play, but don't expect it.

 

I know one employee at a company I advise who took two maternity leaves, then returned briefly and then, my last day there recently, said goodbye to me because she was quitting to start a day care facility. Heh. Imagine two kids in three years and all the job shifting due to, yup, legalities and then, boom, a ton of training expense down the toilet.

 

That's how business works. The ownership side isn't for the faint of heart.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Technically employers can't "do anything" about this but emplyees that pull this stuff will never be considered for a promotion and will be the first people out with any downsizing. Of course this may be irrelevant to her if she already plans to leave, although bad reputation can go far.

[SJS]

I dunno, for some reason, I believe companies (in the US) give maternity leave as an incentive to their employees who of course deserve to have maternity leave and be with their baby.

 

But if you know you want to leave the company, maybe the moral thing to do would be to leave BEFORE you have a child, not after you take advantage of the company's benefits. It rubbed me the wrong way although of course companies don't think much about the employee's well being when letting them go "at will".

 

I wish all countries had the same leave benefits such as Canada etc. do.

Maternity leave for the US is pitiful compared to other countries. I believe I got 8-9 weeks paid (which I paid into for short term disability), and got another 3-4 unpaid.

 

 

At the time my husband worked the night shift, and my job was not very accommodating to me to move my schedule around to avoid putting my baby in daycare for an hour per day. 3 months after I returned to work, I quit. It was not planned when I initially went on mat leave but that's how it worked out.

 

 

I think a lot of career-minded women aren't aware of how strong the maternal instinct is until baby is born and then suddenly that job isn't as important as before.

[TaraMaiden2]

Technically employers can't "do anything" about this but emplyees that pull this stuff will never be considered for a promotion and will be the first people out with any downsizing. Of course this may be irrelevant to her if she already plans to leave, although bad reputation can go far.

 

And this is the downside of women trying to juggle careers with motherhood.

Having children CAN hold you back, and can stunt your career prospects.

 

as I said, such issues wouldn't even arise if men could also incubate babies.

 

It's an unspoken but prevalent prejudice, and while one can blame Mother Nature for the anomaly, it's a global, social issue.

 

Apparently, in the harsh reality of the dog-eat-dog world of commerce, finance and success, women CANNOT, it seems, have both.

 

Something's got to give.

Women - have to choose.

 

And the unfairness of it all is often countermanded with typically-macho, male protestations of having to give leeway, make allowances, exceptions and new rules...

 

These particular men are probably single, married with SAHM wives, or have spouses who have 'jobs' - not careers.

 

One guy I used to work with, who was particularly vocal about his prejudice against women in the workplace, was married, had 2 glorious little kids, his wife was a housewife (home-maker) - and he had a mistress.

 

Make of that what you will.

 

Women want justice and fairness, but it seems whichever way we turn, someone's thumb is on the scales.

[Emilia]

I dunno, for some reason, I believe companies (in the US) give maternity leave as an incentive to their employees who of course deserve to have maternity leave and be with their baby.

 

But if you know you want to leave the company, maybe the moral thing to do would be to leave BEFORE you have a child, not after you take advantage of the company's benefits. It rubbed me the wrong way although of course companies don't think much about the employee's well being when letting them go "at will".

I wish all countries had the same leave benefits such as Canada etc. do.

Exactly. I don't believe in company loyalty the slightest, you never know what goes on and when they will screw you over.

 

The fact that they take so long to replace someone is the key issue here IMO. That's the main problem, decision making, not the employee.

[TaraMaiden2]

Agreed. Company loyalty only works one way:

 

Employee -> Company.

 

No Company will ever have the slightest qualm about having to down-size and lose employees.

 

Face it - salaries are a Company's biggest outgoing.

So cutting employees, saves money.

 

Also, every single company I have ever worked for, has never thought outside the box.

My H is a talented, gifted, intelligent, knowlegeable and experienced person.

He's had some stunning senior posts and his CV is impressive.

 

One company turned him down for a job he seemed absolutely tailor-made for.

 

he rang up asking why he had not had the opportunity to attend the hitherto-promised second interview - and the young man he spoke to, stated, off the record, that my H was a potential threat to his job.

 

So rather than risk employing someone who could ultimately have become a sound investment, business asset and credit to the company - this young 26-year-old upstart ensured that even if his company might suffer as a result of employing the 'wrong' person, someone as good - or possibly better - than him, was not going to even get a foot in the door.

They employed a 23-year-old, just-married as yet childless young lady. (we know this because they met at the initial interview stage - and my H knew her from a social situation).

 

Let's see how that goes, shall we...?

[anika99]

I dunno, for some reason, I believe companies (in the US) give maternity leave as an incentive to their employees who of course deserve to have maternity leave and be with their baby.

 

But if you know you want to leave the company, maybe the moral thing to do would be to leave BEFORE you have a child, not after you take advantage of the company's benefits. It rubbed me the wrong way although of course companies don't think much about the employee's well being when letting them go "at will".

 

I wish all countries had the same leave benefits such as Canada etc. do.

 

She probably didn't know she wanted to leave before she had the baby. When the time came to leave her little infant to return to work she may have decided being with her baby is more important. Perhaps she landed a job with more flexibility allowing her more time with her baby. I don't blame her. As I understand it maternity leave in the US is only a couple of months. Here in Canada new moms get a full year of leave.

[carhill]

https://las-elc.org/sites/default/files/media/LPWF-Know-Your-Rights.pdf

 

Good read for folks who live and work in California. As noted, there are overlapping programs which can be, well, quite lucrative.

 

A common scenario is taking advantage, legally, of one or more programs and then, increasingly common in our technology environment, supplementing income under the table while the government benefits are coming in and the job and position/rank is legally held for return. I see the same things with disability and unemployment aspects.

 

There are no consequences and, yep, like apparently people feel about employers, employees, the ones who abuse the system, don't care. What are you going to do to them anyway? White collar crime generally goes unpunished and heck, even assaults and thefts, including, yup, employee theft, are processed and the perps back on the street the same day. Life in America.

[Tayla]

As someone who walked another path, with maternity leave, it was not an option.

At the time my husband was a grad student and I was the only income. So sit, squat, and get back to work. I, often reflect, on how that affected the bonding.. Seemed at that time that it was my husband who bonded more with the little one. I loved him dearly (my son) , yet I didn't have a choice. insurance had to be paid and bills kept coming. I recall the owner of the medical center that I worked was disgruntled that I even took 7 days off . The doctor had not approved me back to work for lifting since my incisions from the c section hadn't healed.

The point being that maternity leave ( in my opinion) is a priveldge in the career sector, and like it or not , some of us ladies have to forego that priveldge to keep the lights on.

My natural instincts were to be a mom, .. Yet Part of that was realizing I had to provide...

For ladies in high profile careers , maybe they realized what is important.

As for leaving others holding the bag.. That is for management to have cross trained.

[preraph]

The whole thing is annoying, but by now most companies know that a whole lot of new mothers do not come back after their maternity leave and should at least have a Plan B in place.

[Miss Peach]

I found it challenging to go back to work but I was supporting all of us so I had to to keep the bills paid. I've known quite a few women who didn't come back. Most of the ones who did either were career driven and affluent enough for help (i.e., nanny) or they couldn't afford to quit but wanted to.

 

I dunno, for some reason, I believe companies (in the US) give maternity leave as an incentive to their employees who of course deserve to have maternity leave and be with their baby.

 

Actually in the US, it's often not paid by the employee. It usually comes from disability insurance. In my state anyway it's funded from the employee's wages. The only cost to the company is really keeping up the employer portion of certain benefits like insurance.

 

After that it's under FMLA which pays just a tiny fraction of your wages. Again this is paid by the state.

 

 

At the time my husband worked the night shift, and my job was not very accommodating to me to move my schedule around to avoid putting my baby in daycare for an hour per day. 3 months after I returned to work, I quit. It was not planned when I initially went on mat leave but that's how it worked out.

 

This has been one of my biggest things when looking at companies now as a parent. I have seen various levels of flexibility in my industry.

 

Exactly. I don't believe in company loyalty the slightest, you never know what goes on and when they will screw you over.

 

Yes... In the US at least. Everything is at will these days so both sides can stop whenever they want.

[carhill]

Yeah, contract labor, outsource vendors or consultants have been some solutions I've seen to the holes left by FMLA and other similar leave. Essentially, don't burden the existing employees with the additional workload because, well, that breeds resentment and then they jump ship, and don't bring on full-time employees that need training and gain the usual benefits of full-time status as that adds more costs which become sunk when the leave employee returns.

[Got it]

As someone who walked another path, with maternity leave, it was not an option.

At the time my husband was a grad student and I was the only income. So sit, squat, and get back to work. I, often reflect, on how that affected the bonding.. Seemed at that time that it was my husband who bonded more with the little one. I loved him dearly (my son) , yet I didn't have a choice. insurance had to be paid and bills kept coming. I recall the owner of the medical center that I worked was disgruntled that I even took 7 days off . The doctor had not approved me back to work for lifting since my incisions from the c section hadn't healed.

The point being that maternity leave ( in my opinion) is a priveldge in the career sector, and like it or not , some of us ladies have to forego that priveldge to keep the lights on.

My natural instincts were to be a mom, .. Yet Part of that was realizing I had to provide...

For ladies in high profile careers , maybe they realized what is important.

As for leaving others holding the bag.. That is for management to have cross trained.

 

I disagree. It is not a privilege, or shouldn't be, but a right. And in the US it is covered by FMLA.

 

I am an executive for a global company. I took four months maternity leave. My priority was both my home and my career and I made sure that I set my team up for success to run without me. It was a great opportunity to allow my right hand people take a step up and take over my duties to continue to develop them.

 

I am also very liberal with my team on time off for maternity/paternity, accommodating family needs, pumping, etc. If my team is happy at home they are happy and productive at work.

 

If we, in the US, say family is important, than we need to put our money where our mouth is and support families. There is absolutely ROI in supporting our people in their home life and we will retain them if we invest in them.

[Got it]

I found it challenging to go back to work but I was supporting all of us so I had to to keep the bills paid. I've known quite a few women who didn't come back. Most of the ones who did either were career driven and affluent enough for help (i.e., nanny) or they couldn't afford to quit but wanted to.

 

 

 

Actually in the US, it's often not paid by the employee. It usually comes from disability insurance. In my state anyway it's funded from the employee's wages. The only cost to the company is really keeping up the employer portion of certain benefits like insurance.

 

After that it's under FMLA which pays just a tiny fraction of your wages. Again this is paid by the state.

 

 

 

 

This has been one of my biggest things when looking at companies now as a parent. I have seen various levels of flexibility in my industry.

 

 

 

Yes... In the US at least. Everything is at will these days so both sides can stop whenever they want.

 

FMLA is unpaid law. All it does is protect the person from not having their job taken away from them.

 

https://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/

[pink_sugar]

people can do as they please involving staying or leaving.

 

we stopped force labor years ago.

 

Glad she made a decision that works for her life.

 

Personally I stopped thinking an employee owes their company any notice since the employer certainly are well and capable of firing on a whim. Equal play.

 

I have to agree with this. At Will employment is a joke, you're still expected to give notice even though a company can drop you at a moment's notice.