workplace violence

[d0nnivain]

My husband works for a type of social services agency. Yesterday upon learning that he was not going to be awarded more money, a disgruntled client told my husband's co-worker that he (the client) was going to come down to their offices with a gun & shoot the place up before killing himself. The client is currently receiving psychiatric care through that agency.

 

 

The co-worker reported the client's threats to his supervisors as required by policy but nothing was done. They didn't call the cops. They didn't even call the client's psychiatrist.

 

 

DH's office opened for business 1/2 hour ago. I'm worried about him. There is security on the premises but they are kangaroo cops. They do not have metal detectors.

 

 

I hope the client was just making an idle threat but I'm furious that the agency didn't report the threat to anybody. I told DH to complain to his union shop steward & get the union to force the agency to report the threat at least to the police.

 

 

Can anybody offer me comfort?

[carhill]

IMO, any comfort can come from knowing the client and their history. If the client has been 5150 before, then the LEO's should be brought in, if only for documentation. If they have a history of talk, then that can be helpful. It's the quiet ones which can be the real threats. No warning.

 

 

 

If H has a CCW and can carry legally at work (depends), I'd suggest it. Unfortunate that it has to come down to that these days but life is what it is. Hope everyone, including the client, stays safe.

[Popsicle]

Report it to the police yourself so they can watch the place?

[jen1447]

The police won't babysit unless there's a tangible immediate threat.

 

Usually the ones who run a hard talk game are trying to scare and/or intimidate ppl, and that mindset doesn't square with physical attacks. (Ppl who want to hurt you physically have no need to issue warnings and usually don't.) So chances are this was a moment of acting out to comfort some sense of personal deficiency, not a concrete statement of intentions.

 

I'm surprised they didn't report it to the police anyway. Are the security guards armed?

[SammySammy]

Isn't a threat like that a crime? I'm quite sure I've heard of people being arrested for making threats such as that.

[d0nnivain]

carhill -- a ccw will never fly in this state. The NE does not like guns.

 

I'm hoping the guy was just spouting off but it's really scary.

Popsicle -- i don't know the person's identity. It would be a breech of that person's mental health records / privacy for DH to tell me who it is. Because he made some threats indicating he may be a danger to himself or others, DH & his colleagues are privileged to tell law enforcement but I can't.

 

Jen -- I'm pretty sure but not certain that the guards are not armed. They are not law enforcement. They are security. Big difference in raining & background.

[jen1447]

Isn't a threat like that a crime? I'm quite sure I've heard of people being arrested for making threats such as that.

 

It is if it's tangible. Like if someone sent a letter saying they were going to blow up a building using such and such methods on a specific date, they'd be in deep, but if someone idly says "I'm gonna kill your dumb ass," in a pickup basketball game, not so much. The problem in d0's case is that it's in the wide middle ground. Most likely the police would take an interest and at least attempt to contact the guy, but I doubt it'd be grounds for an immediate arrest. (Maybe it would - they do tend to take these kinds of things very seriously anymore.)

[SammySammy]

It is if it's tangible. Like if someone sent a letter saying they were going to blow up a building using such and such methods on a specific date, they'd be in deep, but if someone idly says "I'm gonna kill your dumb ass," in a pickup basketball game, not so much. The problem in d0's case is that it's in the wide middle ground. Most likely the police would take an interest and at least attempt to contact the guy, but I doubt it'd be grounds for an immediate arrest. (Maybe it would - they do tend to take these kinds of things very seriously anymore.)

 

You're right.

 

I did some brief research and terroristic threats can be a crime depending on the jurisdiction and the circumstances.

 

I live in Texas, so doing that around here may not be a good idea. Things may be different in NE states.

[jen1447]

d0, since this seems to be somewhat of an occupational hazard for your hubs' business, have they ever had any risk management consultation? e.g. safe rooms, emergency exits, crisis plans, etc.?

[lollipopspot]

The supervisors work on the premises too I assume. So they must not feel that the threat is serious enough to act on it by calling the police. Not saying that they're necessarily right, but they have more information about this guy's history than you do, they're working in social services, and they're the ones in more immediate risk...so unless they're very incompetent, I'd think they were making reasoned decisions about their own and others' safety.

 

I understand your fear, but it's very unlikely regardless that anything bad will happen. Hold onto that. We hear about these things, but we personally are unlikely to experience them.

 

In America we can be shot by going to the mall. So we live in this risk environment and need to try to sublimate it to function.

[d0nnivain]

DH has all the info. He has read the guy's file. He is also a Marine veteran who can assess a threat, way better than I can. DH is scared (well to the extent that Marines admit fear). That is why I am freaked out.

 

There are no safe rooms & he has complained to his supervisors, including the center's director that their response is inadequate. I think his employer is being negligent & too cavalier.

 

So far all's quiet. He's been texting me every few hours. Understand this is a big deal for him. I have gotten more texts from DH today then I usually get in the course of a week during the work day & it's not even lunch time yet. It's highly unusual.

 

And yes, to whoever asked. What that person said on the phone is a 4th degree crime in the state where we live.

[lollipopspot]

DH has all the info. He has read the guy's file. He is also a Marine veteran who can assess a threat, way better than I can. DH is scared (well to the extent that Marines admit fear). That is why I am freaked out.

 

Then that sucks. He shouldn't have to feel fear at work His supervisors ought better to act, even if just for the sake of appeasing the workers.

 

It's still unlikely to happen. There are a a lot of mentally ill, violent, revengeful people in the US who have access to weapons - and they still don't completely blow up their lives by doing something like this. It's still most likely an idle threat, meant to cause intimidation.

[gaius]

Usually if they're serious they don't announce it out loud beforehand. More likely it was just an attempt to be manipulative in order to get what he wanted.

 

No disrespect to your husband but I don't think being a Marine nessicarily makes him an expert at figuring out who's serious when it comes to depressive threats and who isn't. Even the experts don't even get it right 100% of the time.

 

In other words, everything should be ok.

[SammySammy]

I don't think Americans can afford to be lackadaisical with threats against our lives. Especially when you work for the government. I would take that very seriously.

[OnlyBelieve]

I can't imagine how he's feeling at work today and how it must make you feel. I pray for your husband's peace and safety at his workplace. At this point all you can do is pray for him and trust that he will be okay.

 

Blessings to the both of you,

[GemmaUK]

I have to re-iterate what a few others have said already in that a threat of this kind is just a knee-jerk and incredibly unlikely to result in anything.

 

For all you know the guy could have been high or drunk even - or it was simply a knee-jerk - literally.

 

I can totally understand your concern and your husbands fear though - no question on that front.

 

I worked for a global IT company some years back and I remember, around 2.30pm UK time one of our top sales ladies came into our office and said that a plane had just crashed into one of the Twin Towers. We thought she was joking and then she came up to me and googled it. We couldn't believe what was happening.

The rest of that day we barely worked - including our Finance Director we just watched what was going on.

That afternoon is still as clear as today is in my mind.

The following morning is also as clear.

Our FD got into work first, then one by one the rest of us arrived. I remember my boss saying that Rob the FD seemed really quiet. He was a pretty quiet guy but even so for him - he didn't seem quite right.

The rest of the team (5 of us including the HR manager) arrived in and Rob called us all into his office together.

A few of us glanced at each other when he called us in and honestly I thought he was going to say his wife or one of his young children had passed away. He was white as a sheet and looked terrified.

 

He apologised and said he had had a call and didn't know what to do about it.

We asked what it was about and he said it was a death threat and that they had left a voicemail and called directly in to his phone line.

He asked if we wanted to hear it as he felt like calling the police but he honestly didn't know if he should.

He played it back, twice. It still remains the most frightening thing I have ever heard. It was a threat to bomb our office and also our US office. It wasn't just some kid either, it was a woman, she mentioned names and personal info about some UK and US staff.

 

We all said he should call the police - he did - the fire brigade also came out as a first check for any bombs that may have been planted.

The call couldn't be traced as it was only a v-mail.

 

Those of us who heard that message were the most affected by it. The other staff were much much less affected. Hearing it made a huge difference.

 

Nothing ever happened but it shook us up and we were all glad the FD asked us to listen and that he listened to each of us when we said his thinking was right and he should call the police. He literally went around each of us to ask our opinion.

 

Your husband is right. What has happened should be reported to the authorities and that also should be passed on to those responsible for this guy. It should not be ignored.

But, he will be safe. It has shaken him up and you too. The guy who said it will likely breeze in next time and have no recollection of it.

[d0nnivain]

No disrespect to your husband but I don't think being a Marine nessicarily makes him an expert at figuring out who's serious when it comes to depressive threats and who isn't. Even the experts don't even get it right 100% of the time.

 

Sorry I meant that he understands vets with PTSD but more importantly his service as a Marine will help him assess an active shooter threat should such an awful thing develop. All I could do was hide under my desk or maybe try to escape. He has much greater situational awareness then I do.

 

So far so good.

 

I'm starting to hope that the guy who was spouting off was just running his mouth. At least I'm praying that is what happened.

 

I worked as an adjunct professor a while back. We had an active shooter on campus during one of my classes. We were on the 4th floor of a building with no elevator so I was fairly confident that the shooter wouldn't come upstairs & he didn't. Nobody was seriously injured that day but it makes you think.

Edited November 3, 2015 by d0nnivain

[preraph]

You should notify the police. For one thing, the man is unstable and if he owns a weapon, he needs to have that removed from him. I realize you feel there's channels to go through, but this is a bit too important. Pick up the ball that they dropped and report it to police. People who do revenge killings are often quite serious and not just spouting off. He may wait a year and do it when no one is waiting for him. They should never relax about it. It needs to be reported.

Edited November 3, 2015 by preraph

[Popsicle]

Popsicle -- i don't know the person's identity. It would be a breech of that person's mental health records / privacy for DH to tell me who it is. Because he made some threats indicating he may be a danger to himself or others, DH & his colleagues are privileged to tell law enforcement but I can't.

 

 

I don't think you need his identity. Just inform the police and they may show up just to patrol. This is what they would want you to do as well. Just their presence alone would be enough to deter a possible loose canon.

[d0nnivain]

I don't think you need his identity. Just inform the police and they may show up just to patrol. This is what they would want you to do as well. Just their presence alone would be enough to deter a possible loose canon.

 

 

DH works in a big city in a high crime area. There were several murders there yesterday because somebody wanted to protest something President Obama did. Without a specific threat which included a name & description of this person, the police would be wholly ineffective and they probably couldn't spare the resources on something so vague coming from me, an employee's wife who was relaying this info 3rd hand.

[bathtub-row]

I can completely understand why this would be scary. I don't know the laws in this case but it seems the threat should be taken seriously.

 

I hope all goes well. I'm sure your hubby won't let his guard down.

[Maggie4]

My sympathies for what you and your husband are going through.

Isn't it also really irresponsible to not call the psychiatrist? Suppose he didn't say he was going to harm someone else, and he only said he'll kill himself, and people know he's under psychiatric care, shouldn't someone get this man some help?

That last bit he says about killing himself sounds like a cry for help. If he gets no help, he may feel backed into a corner with no other options.

Maybe the route to take is not to "report" him and charge him with a crime, which seems to be what the agency is reluctant to do. Maybe it's easier to get people to help this guy instead, call the psychiatrist and maybe save his life.

[Clarence_Boddicker]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chance_(body_armor)

[preraph]

Donnivain, you can't let your lack of info stop you. Tell the police where your husband works and that there was a threat and let them go question others there and get the info. You do not have to hand it to them on a plate.

[d0nnivain]

DH came home from work today & informed me that the guy was picked up by the State Police & sent to a locked psychiatric ward. All weapons were confiscated from his home & court proceedings have begun to make the forfeiture of weapons permanent.

 

 

I can breathe easier now.

 

 

Thank you LS for your support.

 

 

We still don't know the details of how the police came to be involved but hopefully somebody will be able to help this guy deal with his mental problems Once upon a time he was probably a nice stable guy.