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Husband just got fired for stealing


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Old 27th July 2015, 9:23 PM   #31
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My husband's employer is NOT pressing charges. They just asked him to cut them a check for the profits that he made, after shipping and auction fees. All of $300. For context, he sold 4 brand new iPhone 4s that were leftover after the company started deploying iPhone 5s.

So, that said... this is not out of character for him. He's done it before, but it used to be true junk with little value. Tons of IT people scavenge old equipment that is otherwise going to be thrown away. As a manager, I've seen employees do this ALL the time and, generally, nobody cares. However, he took it too far by taking something that was brand new and still had plenty of resale value, even if it was kind of outdated.
Minimizing what he has done by saying you have seen other IT people do it is nothing more than denial and justifying what he did.

He got FIRED... so it is a pretty big screw up and one that should not be minimized because you feel sorry for him.

Yeah.. if they don't press charges and accept the reimbursement he still doesn't have a job and lost his recommendation as well...

What he did was terribly criminal and while you are minimizing with context I would get some context back to you that if he hadn't gotten caught so soon the context would have been a whole lot more theft than $300.00 as he would have continued to steal and commit the offense of dealing in stolen property as well.

He needs some serious help, I haven't read any of your back threads but remember posting on some and it seems your husband doesn't have you and the child as a priority in his life, he threw away his livelihood away for $300.00 that he didn't need as a life or death scenario with you working...

I would start by seeing if while you still have him on any insurance that he gets some therapy to figure out why he is so self destructive and why he does this to you and the baby.
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Old 27th July 2015, 9:25 PM   #32
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Words are cheap, though. IIRC previously he also said he 'gets' that he was being an abusive and bad partner, etc, before doing the same thing over and over again.

I dunno, A... if he was fired for something like being snarky to a bitchy customer, or being late to work because he overslept the alarm, I could understand. Still wouldn't like it, but I could understand forgiving and forgetting.

But this was completely premeditated, definitely not an accident. He knew what he was doing was wrong and yet he just kept doing it on the sly. Worse yet, he didn't even tell YOU about this. You weren't informed or given a chance to weigh in despite the fact that these actions would affect both of you from now henceforth. And if he hadn't been caught you wouldn't even have known.
Yeah, that's him. What he logically "knows" and what he "does" are very different things. However, the past few months, things have actually been better. My therapist is aware of the whole story and even she thinks he's not beyond hope, but that he desperately needs therapy.

Actually, I found out he was doing this over the weekend. One of the phones he sold was activated and somehow conflicted with one of the active lines at the company (long story) so he was called late at night on Saturday to fix it, which he did. He then explained why that might have happened. He had already sold them at this point, obviously... so little I could do. I just asked what did he need the money for, and he told me he wanted to put a dent on his credit card. That's all there is to it.
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Old 27th July 2015, 9:30 PM   #33
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Minimizing what he has done by saying you have seen other IT people do it is nothing more than denial and justifying what he did.

He got FIRED... so it is a pretty big screw up and one that should not be minimized because you feel sorry for him.

Yeah.. if they don't press charges and accept the reimbursement he still doesn't have a job and lost his recommendation as well...

What he did was terribly criminal and while you are minimizing with context I would get some context back to you that if he hadn't gotten caught so soon the context would have been a whole lot more theft than $300.00 as he would have continued to steal and commit the offense of dealing in stolen property as well.

He needs some serious help, I haven't read any of your back threads but remember posting on some and it seems your husband doesn't have you and the child as a priority in his life, he threw away his livelihood away for $300.00 that he didn't need as a life or death scenario with you working...

I would start by seeing if while you still have him on any insurance that he gets some therapy to figure out why he is so self destructive and why he does this to you and the baby.
I'm not minimizing, I'm putting it into context. Again, tons of IT people scavenge old crap from their employers... sometimes, it's even encouraged so they don't have to pay the electronics recycling people to come pick it up and charge us for that. However, he crossed a line and took something of actual value.

Personally, I don't even think that he realized about the severity of the consequences this could have. Me, our child, or even himself, didn't even enter the consideration. He probably didn't think it was even possible for him to get caught.

Clearly, he knows different now. He was pretty shaken when he got home. That alone was a rare sight...
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Old 27th July 2015, 9:40 PM   #34
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Scavenging worthless stuff and taking items of value to sell is not the same thing. At all. You must know that.

And he should have known the consequences of stealing items of value from his employer to sell. Any adult would understand that's a termination worthy offense, and could lead to arrest.

Too many excuses. He was reckless with your family's security.
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Old 27th July 2015, 9:48 PM   #35
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He messed up... big time. But he is also a human being.

You are his better half. No amount of armchair quarterbacking by any of us here can make up your mind for you. I am a bit shocked at some of the harsh comments by some of the posters here to be quite honest? If the roles were reversed how would he treat you?

I doubt he was being malicious but he acted with very poor judgement. He's lucky his employer didn't file a police report and press charges. That would have been worse.

If one of your kids was doing the stealing I'm sure he'd be irate. I'm sure you've already pointed that out to him?

He's already been humiliated in front of all his colleagues. He was fired and likely everyone at work knows why. These things get out even when they try to cover them up. His professional reputation among his network of peers is likely ruined. Now he has to live with the guilt and the added pressure/anxiety added to your families finances. This can be a lot for any man to handle.

If he's an otherwise good man, good father and husband I say just make your peace with it and move on. Let him know you won't tolerate anything similar EVER (for the kids sake). Best thing you can do is make sure his butt is out there everyday all day looking for alternate employment.

Berating the man over and over again about what he did will only cause him to resent you.

Not all is lost for him though. Likely he has allies at his former place of employment who will provide a decent reference should another respecting employer need to verify anything. I've known IT guys who have stolen laptops, server equipment etc who were let go and they had no issue finding another similar role because their former employers never pressed formal charges so nothing ever became public record.
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Old 27th July 2015, 9:50 PM   #36
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Scavenging worthless stuff and taking items of value to sell is not the same thing. At all. You must know that.

And he should have known the consequences of stealing items of value from his employer to sell. Any adult would understand that's a termination worthy offense, and could lead to arrest.

Too many excuses. He was reckless with your family's security.
I do see the difference. That's what I just said?

Frankly, I really am not sure how much he realized what he was doing could end in this. He actually told me that he thought it was impossible for him to get caught, given he was the main responsible person for keeping track of this stuff. He said he thought he could "cover his tracks".

Honestly, me being an IT person myself, and knowing what I know... this sounds an awful lot like arrogance, with an unhealthy dose of self-delusion.
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Old 27th July 2015, 10:00 PM   #37
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I do see the difference. That's what I just said?

Frankly, I really am not sure how much he realized what he was doing could end in this. He actually told me that he thought it was impossible for him to get caught, given he was the main responsible person for keeping track of this stuff. He said he thought he could "cover his tracks".

Honestly, me being an IT person myself, and knowing what I know... this sounds an awful lot like arrogance, with an unhealthy dose of self-delusion.
But there is no comparison to the scavengjng. None. I don't understand why you even bring that practice up.

Thinking he wouldn't get caught is arrogant, yes. What else would he do if he felt he wouldn't get caught? Is this representative of his character? The solution is not better judgment about possibility of getting caught.
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Old 27th July 2015, 10:15 PM   #38
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My husband's employer is NOT pressing charges. They just asked him to cut them a check for the profits that he made, after shipping and auction fees. All of $300. For context, he sold 4 brand new iPhone 4s that were leftover after the company started deploying iPhone 5s.

Prior to this situation, my husband was their single most productive and brilliant employee. A true one-man IT department, from top to bottom. His boss apologized to him on their last performance review because he couldn't give him the raise he deserved -- he knew my husband was getting paid about half of his market rate. Imagine that, after all this was said and done... the other manager (recently promoted to director) actually told him he would STILL give him a positive recommendation!

So, that said... this is not out of character for him. He's done it before, but it used to be true junk with little value. Tons of IT people scavenge old equipment that is otherwise going to be thrown away. As a manager, I've seen employees do this ALL the time and, generally, nobody cares. However, he took it too far by taking something that was brand new and still had plenty of resale value, even if it was kind of outdated.

My husband's state of mind as of late hasn't been good. Worse than usual, even taking into consideration his depression. When he texted me this morning to tell me he was fired, I was immediately concerned about what he might do. Plus, he was supposed to be taking our daughter to a doctor's appointment, and I didn't think that he would be capable. That's why I took the rest of the day off, and I was glad I did. He was visibly shaken when he got home.

He said he did it because he didn't think it was possible for him to get caught, since he was the one who managed the carrier account as well as the inventory. He just wanted some extra cash to pay off his credit card.

We've talked and right now he's just trying to tie loose ends but he's going to be looking for a job again soon. I'm not concerned about his ability to find a new job (he truly is a rare gem in the IT field -- I say that as a manager, and a wife), but it may take a few months. In the meantime, things are going to be pretty tough around here.

As for the past abuse situation... I've been in therapy for several months now, and believe it or not, after I got a job, the abuse tapered down to almost zero. He still has days when he's not particularly nice, but he's no longer mean and nasty like he used to. My therapist believes that the stress caused by the financial difficulties when I was staying at home with our daughter caused him to act out like that -- he perceived me to be the "cause" of the problem for not having a job. When the situation was resolved, the abuse went away. Not acceptable, of course... but it seems a plausible explanation.

Funny how that goes. Now that he's unemployed, I would NEVER treat him the way he treated me then...
It could also be that he behaves better when you have a job because he knows then you could leave him if you wanted to. I have a friend whose husband is like that.
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Old 27th July 2015, 10:19 PM   #39
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But there is no comparison to the scavengjng. None. I don't understand why you even bring that practice up.

Thinking he wouldn't get caught is arrogant, yes. What else would he do if he felt he wouldn't get caught? Is this representative of his character? The solution is not better judgment about possibility of getting caught.
I bring it up because: where exactly is the line between what's acceptable to grab, and what isn't?

For example, a CRT monitor that the company hasn't used in 15 years. Worthless, right? What if I told you that you can actually make money off that? I could show you a pile of scrap metal and old computer parts worth a thousand dollars, and you would have sworn it was junk.

I don't justify what my husband did. I know it was wrong. But at some point he crossed the line between something relatively harmless, and obviously premeditated theft of valuable property. Do YOU know where that line was?
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Old 27th July 2015, 10:27 PM   #40
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I bring it up because: where exactly is the line between what's acceptable to grab, and what isn't?

For example, a CRT monitor that the company hasn't used in 15 years. Worthless, right? What if I told you that you can actually make money off that? I could show you a pile of scrap metal and old computer parts worth a thousand dollars, and you would have sworn it was junk.

I don't justify what my husband did. I know it was wrong. But at some point he crossed the line between something relatively harmless, and obviously premeditated theft of valuable property. Do YOU know where that line was?
The line was clear to him. That's why he talked about being sure he wouldn't get caught.
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Old 27th July 2015, 10:28 PM   #41
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Do YOU know where that line was?
A CRT that the company hasn't used in 15 years is still theft, the company owns it.

A pile of computer scrap that the company keeps in a room and tells people to scavenge isn't theft, but taking something that someone else owns is and you were not told you can have is.

I see no difference in stealing a 15 year old CRT and an IPhone 4.. both are old and outdated as well both are owned by the company..

Stealing company paper is also theft.. it's only 6 bucks a pack though and people can get fired for it, if every one of my employees stole a pack a paper each month my paper bill would sky rocket

My company fired a bookkeeper for stealing petty cash and adding a few products each month on the Sam's Club bill that she would cart home in her car.. all in all not a lot of money, it was still stealing and the trust was gone from the relationship and she had to go.
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Old 27th July 2015, 10:41 PM   #42
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A CRT that the company hasn't used in 15 years is still theft, the company owns it.

A pile of computer scrap that the company keeps in a room and tells people to scavenge isn't theft, but taking something that someone else owns is and you were not told you can have is.

I see no difference in stealing a 15 year old CRT and an IPhone 4.. both are old and outdated as well both are owned by the company..

Stealing company paper is also theft.. it's only 6 bucks a pack though and people can get fired for it, if every one of my employees stole a pack a paper each month my paper bill would sky rocket

My company fired a bookkeeper for stealing petty cash and adding a few products each month on the Sam's Club bill that she would cart home in her car.. all in all not a lot of money, it was still stealing and the trust was gone from the relationship and she had to go.
That makes perfect sense to me. I don't think he saw it that way, though.

I've seen many, many employees take junk from work and sell it and then turn a profit, knowing that they were going to be tossed away. Nobody really cared.

I think he got horribly carried away and got blinded by the easy money

Talking to him now... I'm not even sure he sees this as wrong. He's sorry he was caught, and hates that his routine has been disrupted... but I don't think he internalizes his actions as wrong to his employer and damaging to me and his daughter's wellbeing.
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Old 27th July 2015, 10:47 PM   #43
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I'm not even sure he sees this as wrong.
That is why I have been pushing my points in my posts, sorry for being caught is a far cry from "crap, I messed up and won't do it again"

All in all though he can turn this around, he should get right back out there and secure another good IT job, jump back on the horse that threw him off as it were.

Hopefully he won't sit at home and let you bring home the bacon while your debt gets out of control.. and hopefully you can guide him into getting right back out in the workforce and turn it into a positive.


Good Luck
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Old 27th July 2015, 10:54 PM   #44
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Japanese restaurants staff with Indonesians; other restaurants staff with Mexicans. Every time you eat out, you're supporting a system which is designed to profit off of low wage indentured servants.

Are you still fnckable, still lovable at the end of the night to your spouse? Is your integrity intact? What about those Nike shoes you're wearing? How empathetic and ethical are they?
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Old 27th July 2015, 11:06 PM   #45
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Japanese restaurants staff with Indonesians; other restaurants staff with Mexicans. Every time you eat out, you're supporting a system which is designed to profit off of low wage indentured servants.

Are you still fnckable, still lovable at the end of the night to your spouse? Is your integrity intact? What about those Nike shoes you're wearing? How empathetic and ethical are they?
You have GOT to be ****ting me. That's like saying someone has no right to condemn a politician who was caught embezzling a million dollars of taxpayer money, because they own an iPhone that was made by child sweatshop labour in China.

When you DIRECTLY participate in a crime, that is an entirely different story from owning a Nike. The exploitation of people in third world countries is a real issue (and one that more people should be concerned about IMO), but it's a ridiculous strawman to say that nobody should be able to judge anyone else who committed a crime just because they are a consumer.
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