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nomadic_butterfly

My mom was working for a company and I was telling her for over a year that they were over-working and underpaying her based on my research. She was a director and her boss would steal from the company, especially incentives given to her and her team i.e. $100 gift cards, birthday dinners (was suppose to take directors to a moderate restaurant but would try to take them to burger king, no kidding, and pocket the money). My mother was also supposed to get commissions on residents who moved in, but she never pressed it. I sometimes want to pimp slap my mother because personally, when it comes to MY MONEY that I EARNED, I don't muck about.

 

Anyway, that lady got fired and her company was acquired. She made friends with her new boss and her boss found out she was the lowest paid director in the whole building. There would be meetings her previous boss would never invited her to (where all the other director would go), all the directors had their pictures on the walls, except my mom and it was a resident family who was very upset she wasn't there because my mom is one of the best employees they have. She is also a woman of color, but I don't like playing the race card so I'll just assume it was purely because she didn't fight for what she was owed. anyway, this lady gave her a $2.00/hr raise. I am still angry with my mother that she didn't jump on things from the beginning because she could have sued her first company.

 

Turns out, even with that raise, she was STILL underpaid by at least $3.00. The boss that favored her got transferred out and a new boss took over. She tried to give my mom a $0.38 raise. The new company doesn't have "director" titles but instead "managers" and then executives. The new boss tried to write my mom down as a "Coordinator" but clearly it should be "Manager" as that is an equal level to the director role at the previous company (she then corrected it on documents). I did some more research, and then it dawned on me why she was trying to inconspicuously get my mom to accept "coordinator" title. Turns out, even with the $0.38 raise slated for the coming month, she would be making only $0.10 more than a coordinator. Mind you she is managing a WHOLE UNIT/floor and has the ability to hire or fire. I typed up a nice letter for her boss with evidence she is being underpaid for the level, title, and experience she has. Her boss said there is no money in the budget to give her a raise and she might have to be demoted to a "coordinator" title but she will forward her documents to corporate. Is it legal to #1, be underpaying someone, then #2 demote them because they present evidence they are being underpaid?

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It is perfectly legal.

 

It is not right, but there is nothing illegal about it. Your Mom needs to escalate to Human Resources.

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GorillaTheater

I would say, "maybe". If your mom can demonstrate that she is underpaid BECAUSE of gender, race, national origin, age, etc., either by showing that everyone or at least most people not in her protected class make more without a legitimate business reason, she may have a case.

 

Likewise, she may be able to demonstrate that the demotion is retaliation (which is generally easier to prove than discrimination) unless the company can show a legitimate business reason for the demotion.

 

Tell her to speak to an employment lawyer to sort through the details.

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amaysngrace

What Directors get an hourly wage? :confused:

 

Every single person I know with that title are salary.

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I am not well versed on employment laws so I cannot say if it is legal or not. (I would go out on a limb to say it is not illegal).

 

It appears your mom is not appreciated and valued by her employers. Does she have language barrier issues? What keeps her from being more assertive at work?

 

If she is severely underpaid, has she tried to obtain employment elsewhere? A person's service is worth as much as the market is willing to pay. Having the same title does not always mean having the same salary.

 

Instead of being angry at her for not suing her previous employer, I would suggest that you help her work on her communication skills or whatever issues (perceived or real) that she may have so she can be better appreciated by her next employer.

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nomadic_butterfly
What Directors get an hourly wage? :confused:

 

Every single person I know with that title are salary.

 

You and I have the same question! There are many things that perplex my brain about this company/former company. I still don't understand how a "salary" can be an hourly rate. It is usually a SOLID NUMBER which is what I told her. She lives in Florida and to be honest, the job market sucks and the pay is often menial. I don't understand how her raise is not a percentage but rather some cents.

 

She also doesn't get ANY bonuses despite being at the director level and performing well. Only executives get bonuses. She has one of the best kept departments and exemplary reviews by her residents/their families. Her department also has the highest resident retention rates. My mother has always struggled with being too nice and a pushover which is why I am putting my foot down for her and helping her to write a professional letter, research and seek legal advice. Enough is enough. Objectively speaking, it is rare to find one as honest and hard working and loyal as my mother - loyal to a fault that is in both her personal and professional life.

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nomadic_butterfly
I am not well versed on employment laws so I cannot say if it is legal or not. (I would go out on a limb to say it is not illegal).

 

It appears your mom is not appreciated and valued by her employers. Does she have language barrier issues? What keeps her from being more assertive at work?

 

If she is severely underpaid, has she tried to obtain employment elsewhere? A person's service is worth as much as the market is willing to pay. Having the same title does not always mean having the same salary.

 

Instead of being angry at her for not suing her previous employer, I would suggest that you help her work on her communication skills or whatever issues (perceived or real) that she may have so she can be better appreciated by her next employer.

 

My mom (although only 47) is just not as aggressive and bold as I am. Push me to my limit and I will let you have it as nice as I am in general. I don't play when it comes to getting what I have EARNED, not feel "entitled" to. She's just now seeing the light. She isn't getting any younger so now is the time to make sure she is paid what she is due. She told me I don't understand; she needs the security of her current job (my siblings are teens) for them. I am like, that's ALL THE MORE REASON to seek just compensation. I think hearing from the first new boss how much they screwed her over and she couldn't do anything because they were already acquired by the time she was going to do something really opened her eyes. Maybe she didn't believe me or underestimated my research.

 

She is now open to getting a lawyer involved if need be though. I am just tired of her kindness being taken for weakness. I am going to help her with her resume and try to help her find something new. She has basic computer skills so I think that's why she is scared to go somewhere else and have to be on the computer a lot if she's a director. I told her all the more reason to LEARN IT. It is extremely easy. She just needs to get over the limits she is placing on herself which are really just excuses. Sometimes I feel like the parent, and her the child.

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Kudos to you for helping her "see the light". I would venture to say it was not because she didn't believe you or your research. She didn't believe in herself.

 

Can she improve her computer skills by reading books/watching clips on Youtube? Is it possible (time/money) to take computer courses at a community college? Can you teach her?

 

Assuming she sues and wins, how long can she live on that money? She will either have to find another job or be her own boss. That's why I suggest she should work on building up her confidence and skills.

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nomadic_butterfly
Kudos to you for helping her "see the light". I would venture to say it was not because she didn't believe you or your research. She didn't believe in herself.

 

Can she improve her computer skills by reading books/watching clips on Youtube? Is it possible (time/money) to take computer courses at a community college? Can you teach her?

 

Assuming she sues and wins, how long can she live on that money? She will either have to find another job or be her own boss. That's why I suggest she should work on building up her confidence and skills.

 

Thanks. Unfortunately, we live on different coasts. I sometimes send her pictures/screenshots to walk her through. I think the more she does and sees how simple it is, the more open she is. I don't know why she lets fear cripple her so much sometimes. YouTube is a great idea I never thought of! I will send her some relevant videos. Thanks for that idea!

 

My siblings aren't as nice as I lol and they get impatient with her. My mom kinda wants you to drop things at a dime to help her. She just learned how to text like 2yrs ago though I've been trying to show her since 2003! LOL. Now she sees you cannot escape technology/computers so you might as well embrace it!

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nomadic_butterfly
I am not well versed on employment laws so I cannot say if it is legal or not. (I would go out on a limb to say it is not illegal).

 

It appears your mom is not appreciated and valued by her employers. Does she have language barrier issues? What keeps her from being more assertive at work?

 

If she is severely underpaid, has she tried to obtain employment elsewhere? A person's service is worth as much as the market is willing to pay. Having the same title does not always mean having the same salary.

 

Instead of being angry at her for not suing her previous employer, I would suggest that you help her work on her communication skills or whatever issues (perceived or real) that she may have so she can be better appreciated by her next employer.

 

Thanks! This is great advice. I guess she just let fear hinder her because she really needs the job and doesn't want to be let go. Most of the executive and director level people were let go (pretty common when a new company takes over) so I guess she considered herself blessed that she was kept on since she had good reviews/references. Having my support has helped her a lot because she knows she is not alone. We're immigrants but our official language back home is English although our dialect isn't proper English. Maybe she doesn't feel confidence in her ability to articulate things "the American way" to her superiors but I helped her type up the documents and coached her on what to say so they take her seriously and she can be confident. I am going to coach her on negotiation, etc. for her next job. I believe good people win in the end anyway. It's only a matter of time!

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Is it legal to #1, be underpaying someone, then #2 demote them because they present evidence they are being underpaid?

 

1. It has to be determined that she is being underpaid, and this has to be based on some sort of concrete evidence. Not getting the salary that someone thinks they deserve - even if they can make a great case for themselves - is not in and of itself a violation of employment law. It's for the employee to either accept and continue working in that capacity, or find another role in the company or even another employer. That being said, if she can prove that she was working at a certain pay grade and wasn't paid accordingly, then she would probably be entitled to back pay - assuming she presses the case in a timely manner.

 

2. If it can be established that she was demoted for trying to redress a legitimate grievance under the law, that would be a potential example of "retaliation", which is very, very illegal. You'd need to consult a legal expert and present all of the facts of the case.

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OP, you are way too involved in your mother's employment issues. Since she is your mother, you're not going to be objective - not that it matters because you have no authority. Posting legal questions to strangers on an internet message board......not the correct route to take. People guess and pull things out of the air. Waste of time. Your mother should make a call to an employment attorney and ask for a consultation (which is usually free).

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introverted1
OP, you are way too involved in your mother's employment issues. Since she is your mother, you're not going to be objective - not that it matters because you have no authority. Posting legal questions to strangers on an internet message board......not the correct route to take. People guess and pull things out of the air. Waste of time. Your mother should make a call to an employment attorney and ask for a consultation (which is usually free).

 

This.

 

No one here, not even you, can truly know if she is being underpaid (which implies discrimination) or if her pay is based on her job performance (which may differ from that of other directors).

 

Aside from this, it sounds as though the company uses impressive titles as an offset for low pay. I've never heard of a director-level position that was not salaried.

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nomadic_butterfly
1. It has to be determined that she is being underpaid, and this has to be based on some sort of concrete evidence. Not getting the salary that someone thinks they deserve - even if they can make a great case for themselves - is not in and of itself a violation of employment law. It's for the employee to either accept and continue working in that capacity, or find another role in the company or even another employer. That being said, if she can prove that she was working at a certain pay grade and wasn't paid accordingly, then she would probably be entitled to back pay - assuming she presses the case in a timely manner.

 

2. If it can be established that she was demoted for trying to redress a legitimate grievance under the law, that would be a potential example of "retaliation", which is very, very illegal. You'd need to consult a legal expert and present all of the facts of the case.

 

I would never go by subjective feelings but rather objective facts and numbers. I based her being underpaid on salary listing under than same titles/similar titles on glassdoor, pay scale.com, etc. Additionally, her first new boss under the new company saw she was the least paid (she was an executive who obviously knew what everyone was making), saw her work ethic and gave her a raise of a few dollars an hour so this is fact. She was going to give my mother another bump again but she left. The lady knew my mom and her work. It's her new boss that is being cheap (the other was transferred to another location, my guess one where they paid her more). My mom is a great worker and she's won awards, employee of the month, etc. She also has had great evals.

 

I am working towards helping her tweak her resume and move on, but after corporate addresses this issue.

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nomadic_butterfly
OP, you are way too involved in your mother's employment issues. Since she is your mother, you're not going to be objective - not that it matters because you have no authority. Posting legal questions to strangers on an internet message board......not the correct route to take. People guess and pull things out of the air. Waste of time. Your mother should make a call to an employment attorney and ask for a consultation (which is usually free).

 

I am only "involved" because my mom is not from here and she doesn't understand her rights and certain things like I do. I am only doing what any child who loves their mother would do; help and protect her. If that's a crime, so be it. My parents worked their tails off to move us into nicer neighborhoods to have the best education and for us to have a life better than theirs. All of their children are well adjusted, high achieving, upstanding citizens. You wouldn't understand but thanks for your comment anyway.

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  • 3 weeks later...

What a frustrating situation. I believe there are two issues your mother is facing: a legal issue (that is, whether she is being underpaid or discriminated against in a way that is illegal), and a fairness issue (whether she's just being taken advantage of but not in a way that's illegal).

 

It might be a mixed bag-- some of both might be happening. Or you may be in that limbo land where it's illegal but not in a way that's easy to prove.

 

The legal question carries the sub-question of what to do about it. Seeing a lawyer is easy for some, not all. But there might be employment lawyers who offer free consultations. After that, there are decisions whether to sue, or settle, et c.

 

Then the fairness question carries a similar sub-question: What to do? Leave? Take assertiveness classes? Leverage another job offer for an appropriate raise?

 

Psychologically, it is very painful to think of what you could (or even should) have, as money lost. Just as a psychological matter, I'd advise investing your energy into the following calculus: Figure out how much money your mother wants to live off of (reasonable salary for her needs and desires). Then, how hard she wants to work. Then, how comfortable she would be making a change. If she is "happy" where she is even though others have more, then the situation becomes less urgent. If that is the case, I still think it is unfair (and possibly illegal) the way she is being treated, but I'd go about exposing the workplace and even lobbying local lawmakers or, if possible, approaching a union organizer to see whether it's time for her workplace to unionize. So I am not suggesting that you and your mother become complacent about her unfair situation, but rather, that you set her sights on personal goals for her life rather than on the injustices only. Then, tackle the injustice as time and energy allows. And I would be surprised if you could not find others near her who care a lot about the injustice, who know of similar situations, and who want to make changes.

 

I am not an employment lawyer, but I gather that you don't have to show that every person of color is discriminated against just to show that one person was discriminated against based on their race. And I feel like (as a matter of fairness if not law) your mother deserves an immediate raise and a chunk of money as retroactive pay for what she should've been paid in the past if the company was fair.

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I would never go by subjective feelings but rather objective facts and numbers. I based her being underpaid on salary listing under than same titles/similar titles on glassdoor, pay scale.com, etc. Additionally, her first new boss under the new company saw she was the least paid (she was an executive who obviously knew what everyone was making), saw her work ethic and gave her a raise of a few dollars an hour so this is fact. She was going to give my mother another bump again but she left. The lady knew my mom and her work. It's her new boss that is being cheap (the other was transferred to another location, my guess one where they paid her more). My mom is a great worker and she's won awards, employee of the month, etc. She also has had great evals.

 

I am working towards helping her tweak her resume and move on, but after corporate addresses this issue.

 

But comparing to other companies will not tell you if they are illegally discriminating. They could be underpaying in general which doesn't help retention but is legal.

 

Just because they don't appreciate her at the level she deserves doesn't make it something that is worthy of being sued or illegal.

 

As someone that works a great deal in employment law, your mom would have to prove that her treatment is based on a protected characteristic. Outside of that they are a bad company and she should just find another position elsewhere.

 

In regards to the pay, if she is listed as an exempt employee but is not (which doesn't sound like she is since she manages others) and is not paid overtime that would be a wage and labor issue.

 

Her position is not salaried if she has an hourly rate. She is an hourly employee with an incorrect title. Since she is hourly I would assume she is paid over time which doesn't make sense to me based on what you said she does. But that isn't illegal as it does benefit the employee.

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And she doesn't necessarily need to see an attorney. She can contact the EEEOC, EEOC Home Page and they can address her concerns. As someone that isn't a minor this is not something you can handle for her; she will need to contact them.

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GorillaTheater
And she doesn't necessarily need to see an attorney. She can contact the EEEOC, EEOC Home Page and they can address her concerns. As someone that isn't a minor this is not something you can handle for her; she will need to contact them.

 

95% of the time the EEOC does a cursory investigation and then issues a Right to Sue letter. All they amount to is a hoop to jump through prior to the plaintiff filing suit.

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I am only "involved" because my mom is not from here and she doesn't understand her rights and certain things like I do. I am only doing what any child who loves their mother would do; help and protect her. If that's a crime, so be it. My parents worked their tails off to move us into nicer neighborhoods to have the best education and for us to have a life better than theirs. All of their children are well adjusted, high achieving, upstanding citizens. You wouldn't understand but thanks for your comment anyway.

 

Oh, for goodness sakes.....What I DO understand is that one needs to hear your/your parent's/your siblings lifes story. Your mother or evey YOU could dial the number of an employment atty and get an answer to your legal question. You asked a specific question, I stand by my previous answer, and you're welcome.

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Regardless of the legality of her compensation structure and title, you're making your mom look REALLY BAD by having her daughter write letters for her.

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Agree with RoseVille.People need to learn to fight their own battles. I recall a young woman (in her 30s) who, whenever she had an issue at work would call her father in tears and complain how everyone is picking on her. Her dad would make frequent visits to the office, just to hang out for awhile. Soon, it was decided that daughter's position wasn't necessary anymore. No business needs that nonsense.

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