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sought - bad reference given for new job


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I have been very upset, distraught even, after a couple of months ago had been offered another job within the same company and was pleased to accept, but just before Christmas I received an email from HR to say that due to unsatisfactory reference, the post had been withdrawn. There was a discussion with the supervisor, seen as line manager, who is more like a secretary i.e doesn't actually see me work (who did my reference), my team leader and also another senior person in the dept. It was very heated and it turned out my team leader didn't agree with everything the 'line manager' had said and was willing to give the manager to be her reference, but she said no and that we'd leave it for now. However, the post remains withdrawn and the main manager of my dept told her to back off now and that the manager of new dept would be in touch. No doubt she is enjoying her holiday first though, who is back next Mon. I was disgusted at parts of the reference i.e poor without supervision and slow with my work, which had wrote a letter to my supervisor about who did the reference, but she is on leave again. It now seems though that it wasn't the reference which was ok, but think this might be a cover up now. Quite complicated, but would appreciate any advice. Thanks

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This supervisor had also given a poor reference to another colleague which the same thing happened to e.g had a lot of fairs on reference, but she was lucky as knew one of the managers in her dept who gave her the benefit of the doubt. Also because she had been given a bad reference by same supervisor, I hesitated to ask her for one as asked two people before her which delayed things a bit, which included my team leader (who has no time to fix her e-mails) and who insisted I went to this supervisor (who she is friends with) as had the dates, but that if in the unlikely event she gave me a bad reference that she would do me one - which she can't do now. The manager of new job though was just interested in who my line manager was, which she got clarified. However, HR have also got her down as my team leader which is wrong and which my team leader is trying to correct - for her sake though.

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Reference checks really should be done prior to extending offers of employment, but employers offer contingent on good references sometimes. Try not to beat yourself up and take this as a lesson learned to not use that person as a reference in the future. I would also mark "no" to contacting this employer on any future employment applications for reason other than simple verification of employment.

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goldengirl11

Thanks for your understanding reply pinksugar. I guess that although I want this particular job, rather than just keep applying for others, I fear that if in the case I was offered another job in the hospital, that my team leader would insist that I go to this person again because she has the dates and again say that if it's a bad one, then she'll do one!

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You usually can list specific people for references for verification purposes. Can you get a phone number from this person so they can be contacted?

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Depending on if you are in the US or not, only certain things can be asked and answered in a reference check.

 

I am confused on who all gave references - did you choose who you wanted a reference from? If so, it sounds like you definitely need to revise the list of people you have down for references.

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goldengirl11
Depending on if you are in the US or not, only certain things can be asked and answered in a reference check.

 

I am confused on who all gave references - did you choose who you wanted a reference from? If so, it sounds like you definitely need to revise the list of people you have down for references.

 

I'm from the U.K. I didn't want to give this person who is down as line manager (but in reality is a secretary/supervisor who pops in when team leader is off), but my team leader insisted I went to her as she had the dates and said if it's a bad one that she'll do one. I have since found out that HR can only accept one internal reference though. Sorry for the confusion! Am trying to write a letter this weekend for the manager of the new job I was going to start, ready for Monday.

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goldengirl11
You usually can list specific people for references for verification purposes. Can you get a phone number from this person so they can be contacted?

 

Yes I did speak to the would be manager a couple of weeks ago, but she was really hard to talk to and was only interested to know who my line manager was :(

 

Re listing people for verification purposes, the form asked for at least two, one I gave who was my college tutor and the other is meant to be your line manager. Again, was nervous to give her, as she has a bit of a reputation re giving tough references. Obviously I can't risk giving her again though.

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goldengirl11

Having yet another sleepless night again. I just feel numb when I attempt to write a letter to this manager (where new job is), yet I'm exploding inside. I'm so desperate to get out of my current job, but feel trapped. I would be quite happy to resign and have some time out, whilst looking for a new job, but I know that I would disappoint my parents/family a lot. I'm single though, which is probably why I'm so desperate for this job as it's better paid.

Edited by goldengirl11
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If you can afford to resign, it is entirely up to you. You wouldn't get unemployment benefits though and you're more marketable employed. Unless this job is really eating away at you.

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goldengirl11
If you can afford to resign, it is entirely up to you. You wouldn't get unemployment benefits though and you're more marketable employed. Unless this job is really eating away at you.

 

No, I can't afford to resign, unfortunately!! But yes, is definitely eating away at me. Fingers crossed for tomorrow I guess, but will actively seek alternative work now - with certainly a different person to contact in my dept!

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Have you got any documented past appraisals or similar that would support your case on the inaccuracy of the reference?

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Okay, in the UK it's possible for liability to attach to an employer where they give a bad reference - but it does have to meet the test of actually being a negligent reference. So you'd have to be able to evidence clear inaccuracies, as suggested by Anne, rather than simply a difference in subjective opinion between you and the person who wrote the reference.

 

The difficulty is, of course, that once you get into the business of arguing that a reference was negligent, they're going to see you as a potential litigant rather than a valued employee...and that's not a position you want to be in. Nonetheless, I think this is a fairly serious matter. If you do want to push the issue, you'll need to go through the organisation's grievance procedures and I wouldn't recommend you do that without first privately seeking advice from a solicitor specialising in employment law.

 

Don't, for goodness sake, rely on stuff you read on a message board for something as important as this. Even if it's actually from a solicitor (I'm one, in the UK, and some of my caseload is employment stuff - but I still wouldn't want you to rely on anything I'm saying). You need to meet properly with somebody, taking along your contract and any employee manuals, evidence of appraisals you've had, in order to get proper advice.

 

That said, it's not cheap to even have a preliminary meeting with a solicitor. You could easily find yourself parting with £300 for just one meeting and be left with little other than "ifs" and "buts". So I wouldn't tend to recommend you bother going down that path unless you really are quite certain that the reference was wrong, and negligent. If it's just a case of "I think she was harsh, I don't agree" but it's a difficult issue to prove either way then it might not be worth kicking up too much of a fuss here.

 

A boss gave me a less than great reference once, for an internal post. There was nothing really bad in it, but it suggested I lacked confidence - and it left out a lot of good stuff that could be clearly evidenced. So it was an unbalanced reference. I dealt with it by arranging a meeting with him and pointing out the positives he could have mentioned. Then I laid on him the fact that I'd had an interview with an external organisation who seemed keen and were probably going to ask for a reference. I asked if we could discuss the reference he was likely to give them, and he agreed. He went on to give me a great reference.

 

I think you just have to box clever sometimes. If somebody has been unfair to you, letting them know you know - but also give them an opportunity to make it up to you is often better than getting into too much of a wrangle with them. Good luck!

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goldengirl11
Okay, in the UK it's possible for liability to attach to an employer where they give a bad reference - but it does have to meet the test of actually being a negligent reference. So you'd have to be able to evidence clear inaccuracies, as suggested by Anne, rather than simply a difference in subjective opinion between you and the person who wrote the reference.

 

The difficulty is, of course, that once you get into the business of arguing that a reference was negligent, they're going to see you as a potential litigant rather than a valued employee...and that's not a position you want to be in. Nonetheless, I think this is a fairly serious matter. If you do want to push the issue, you'll need to go through the organisation's grievance procedures and I wouldn't recommend you do that without first privately seeking advice from a solicitor specialising in employment law.

 

Don't, for goodness sake, rely on stuff you read on a message board for something as important as this. Even if it's actually from a solicitor (I'm one, in the UK, and some of my caseload is employment stuff - but I still wouldn't want you to rely on anything I'm saying). You need to meet properly with somebody, taking along your contract and any employee manuals, evidence of appraisals you've had, in order to get proper advice.

 

That said, it's not cheap to even have a preliminary meeting with a solicitor. You could easily find yourself parting with £300 for just one meeting and be left with little other than "ifs" and "buts". So I wouldn't tend to recommend you bother going down that path unless you really are quite certain that the reference was wrong, and negligent. If it's just a case of "I think she was harsh, I don't agree" but it's a difficult issue to prove either way then it might not be worth kicking up too much of a fuss here.

 

A boss gave me a less than great reference once, for an internal post. There was nothing really bad in it, but it suggested I lacked confidence - and it left out a lot of good stuff that could be clearly evidenced. So it was an unbalanced reference. I dealt with it by arranging a meeting with him and pointing out the positives he could have mentioned. Then I laid on him the fact that I'd had an interview with an external organisation who seemed keen and were probably going to ask for a reference. I asked if we could discuss the reference he was likely to give them, and he agreed. He went on to give me a great reference.

 

I think you just have to box clever sometimes. If somebody has been unfair to you, letting them know you know - but also give them an opportunity to make it up to you is often better than getting into too much of a wrangle with them. Good luck!

 

Thank you for your interesting response. I did write a long letter to the 'line manager' who did my reference, asking if she could kindly try to change the situation and gave my reasons for the points I disagreed on, but she didn't mention it to me! I had seen her once since, after her sickness/annual leave, but she just said hi! I didn't feel I had anymore to say really and felt that it was up to her to bring it up. Absolutely dreading work tomorrow.

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goldengirl11
How did work go yesterday?
Thanks for asking. Much the same really tbh, but did send a long email to the manager of the dept I would've been going to, expressing my views etc. Was a bit surprised not to hear tbh, even though I'd guessed that the job was still withdrawn. This manager did respond to a short e-mail though on Monday about midday (replying after she got back from holiday), which was sent by a senior person in my dept last week trying to get any news. She said that she was quite shocked that this was still going on and that if I have any more queries, I should go to HR (after HR told me it was ultimately her decision). Also that she did leave me a message on my voicemail just before Xmas re answers - which I didn't receive! Trying to move forward, but still feel awkward to continue working in same dept, so trying to seek out new job opportunities. Am off the rest of this week, as have some leave left to take. Thanks again. Edited by goldengirl11
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Taramere - I still feel I need to take it further though at work and am considering again sending an e-mail to the top, as still feel strongly about the matter.

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My advise is to stop writing "long" emails to these people. Schedule an appt to talk face to face. No hiring manager wants a long email from an applicant.

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I agree. I would go a step further...stop fighting a decision after the fact. You're now getting the royal run around.

 

They've made up their mind. At this point, fighting the decision isn't going to change the outcome. It will only make it less likely that you will ever get considered for other opportunities within your current company. For your own sake, let this go even though you're upset and disappointed. If future bosses think you can't be a team player or you'll always fight decisions that you don't like, you'll never get ahead. Learn to pick your battles.

 

And learn to be proactive. She had a reputation for deep-sixing candidates from her group. The time to make sure you had rock solid support and overwhelming positive feedback was BEFORE things came to a head. Trying to prove that you deserve this promotion because this team leader is wrong...in other words, poor at her job because she's incapable of judging your performance...and everyone else was wrong for listening to her input...is not the way to win this.

 

That's how you get permanently sidelined, not promoted.

 

A few questions:

 

Is there even an iota of merit to the feedback this supervisor gave? Be ruthlessly honest with yourself. Is there any room for improvement. Focus on becoming the best you at your work.

 

Second, it sounds as if this person doesn't like losing people from her group. She had a reputation for this, you said? You aren't going to get promoted out of the group as long as she's there...especially after you've challenged her. You're going to have to find a job outside the company if you want a better job or career progression.

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Taramere - I still feel I need to take it further though at work and am considering again sending an e-mail to the top, as still feel strongly about the matter.

 

I'm sorry things are still difficult, goldengirl. I'd be concerned, as others say, that further emails aren't going to help. I know what it's like to feel angry in these situations, but you have to think about what's going to help you in the longer term...and sending the email probably won't.

 

If you were to take this further, then I think by this stage the correct action would involve raising a grievance as you've already addressed it informally. However, I would say that if you're considering going down that route you really should check things out with a solicitor first.

 

I hope things get better soon. Sometimes when these situations crop up it can push you in a direction that you might not initially want to take - but that sometimes proves to be the right one for you in the longer term.

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