Can there be any restitution?

[UpwardForward]

My elderly mother consigned 197 lots of antique and vintage dolls w/o my knowledge.

 

She waited for the next time I visited, and for me to notice the missing dolls.

 

Her commission was to be 80%. Auctioneer rep said auction would refurbish the dolls when necessary and get her best prices possible.

 

He looked at her vintage velvet Mickey Mouse and said he had sold one for $3000.

 

21 months later and with prodding, my mother received her check for total consignment. It was pitiful, and looked as if auction house carelessly sold most items way below value.

 

In going through the auction's final sales listing/prices, I noted items that stood out in my mind, were missing from the listing. I'm thinking the doll reps who came to pack the dolls, took biggest portions of at least two of the valuable missing lots. Values $2000. & $3000.

 

Also, in checking their final sales listing on the net to verify pricing, I noted the things I spot checked i.e. the early vintage 20"Mickey Mouse $300.00 & antique 34" Heinrich Handwerck $350.00 were sold at Monday night auctions close to the auction headquarters.

 

Further checking lead me to what appear to be same two items (but refurbished) sold about 10 mos. later on weekend in Newport Beach CA: by same auction company. i.e. Mickey Mouse $3700.00 & 34" Heinrich Handwerck doll for $2000.00.

 

This leads me to believe auction house had an inside agent purchasing many of my mother's things low at their unpublicized auction , then reselling for the sake of gaining a higher inside profit. i.e. 'Buy Back', collusion, etc.

 

The unpublicized Monday nite auction offers no pictures of my mothers things, just prices. Newport Beach auction is on the net with colorful pictures for my identifying. But appearing to be refurbished.

 

My mother is being uncooperative with me on this. Wants me to let this all go, and acting afraid auction company will sue me for accusations.

 

I cannot/will not let what appears to be fraud/theft, go.

 

As a third party, how can I proceed with this w/o proof? I have no pictures of the items that were stolen as auction company packed my mother's collection. And no proof many items in her collection were compromised or sold low then resold by same auction house at a later date.

[zen2475]

This is a legal question. I would consult with an attorney.

[UpwardForward]

This is a legal question. I would consult with an attorney.

 

I intend to. (just got the bad news docs & did some internet followup yesterday)

 

But also, there are attorneys and other experts on here.

[zen2475]

Who actually owns the items that were auctioned? Did your mother keep a listing of what was given to the auction company? Did she receive some kind of receipt from them? Did she have a written contract with the auction house? The contract and provisions within the contract may be mandated by state law.

 

Really, if those were your mother's belongings and she doesn't want to do anything, I would respect her wishes and let it go. Otherwise, if she wishes to pursue legal action later, make sure she does so within the statute of limitations imposed by your state (assuming you are in the U.S.).

Edited October 26, 2014 by zen2475

[UpwardForward]

Who actually owns the items that were auctioned? Did your mother keep a listing of what was given to the auction company? Did she receive some kind of receipt from them? Did she have a written contract with the auction house? The contract and provisions within the contract may be mandated by state law.

 

Really, if those were your mother's belongings and she doesn't want to do anything, I would respect her wishes and let it go. Otherwise, if she wishes to pursue legal action later, make sure she does so within the statute of limitations imposed by your state (assuming you are in the U.S.).

 

Items auctioned and taken are my my mother's, were my father's as well. And yes to all questions first paragraph.

 

And no. My family has worked hard and has respect for money. In many ways live frugally.

 

With the thefts & second auctions, auction house would owe my mother at least $40,000 more on the lots where they deliberately gave her credit for disparaged auction figures, then re-sold.

 

Auction told her where necessary they would refurbish and get best pricing for her. It looks as if they sold many of her lots at the Mon nite local auction with lower exposure - and with in-house bidding - then refurbishing for final big advertised auctions.

 

Imo, this auction should not operate in this manner. There are other people involved, not just our family. It is obvious they have been doing this to others, and will continue to do so - if I do not expose.

[zen2475]

In this instance, since it was your mother (and father) who owned the items and signed the contract, they are the ones who have legal standing to file a civil action, not you, if that is the route they wish to pursue.

 

Nonetheless, the auctioneer has a fiduciary responsibility to the seller, your mother, to act in her best interests. As such, fiduciaries are held to a higher standard under common law. That means there can be no conflicts of interest or collusion.

 

Again, an attorney with knowledge of the laws in your jurisdiction and who can accurately assess the laws in your jurisdiction as they apply to your case, whether by statute or by common law, would be best suited to assist you.

 

 

Meanwhile, you may want to investigate reporting the auction house to the Federal Trade Commission (ftc.gov), or the Attorney General of your state.

[UpwardForward]

In this instance, since it was your mother (and father) who owned the items and signed the contract, they are the ones who have legal standing to file a civil action, not you, if that is the route they wish to pursue.

 

Nonetheless, the auctioneer has a fiduciary responsibility to the seller, your mother, to act in her best interests. As such, fiduciaries are held to a higher standard under common law. That means there can be no conflicts of interest or collusion.

 

Again, an attorney with knowledge of the laws in your jurisdiction and who can accurately assess the laws in your jurisdiction as they apply to your case, whether by statute or by common law, would be best suited to assist you.

 

 

Meanwhile, you may want to investigate reporting the auction house to the Federal Trade Commission (ftc.gov), or the Attorney General of your state.

 

Thank you Thank you for that last sentence.

 

I will talk to an attorney first. Then contact the auction people regarding the missing lots. And wait or gather more proof regarding the collusion i.e. selling low, purchasing, reselling.

 

Statue of Limitations on most things here is 3 years. Even at 21 months I still have a year more on the theft. And since my mother was just given her check & paperwork last week, we have almost 3 years re: my discovery of last night - on the probable collusion/fraud.

 

Lastly, I will report them to Fed Trade Commission and attny general.

[zen2475]

Again, any action taken in this matter will need to be by your mother. It is her cause of action; not yours. You do not have legal standing to bring an action on your mother's behalf. This also applies to any complaint made to the FTC or the Attorney General.

[UpwardForward]

Again, any action taken in this matter will need to be by your mother. It is her cause of action; not yours. You do not have legal standing to bring an action on your mother's behalf. This also applies to any complaint made to the FTC or the Attorney General.

 

She was a perfect mark for the doll auction. 93 yrs old. And now acting forgetful and senile at 94. She was irresponsible and went downstairs while they were doing their inventory listing and packing.

 

No matter how I get it done with her signature or whatever, I have got to be sure this renowned doll auction doesn't continue to do this to people like my mother.

Edited October 27, 2014 by UpwardForward

[CarrieT]

No matter how I get it done with her signature or whatever, I have got to be sure this renowned doll auction doesn't continue to do this to people like my mother.

Call a local news station; they tend to like these David/Goliath stories and may help with the situation.

[zen2475]

I think calling a news agency is an excellent idea. It sounds like these people were predatory and I totally agree they need to be stopped.

 

It really angers me to hear of these types of practices and I'm sorry you and your family are going through this.

 

There is a special place in hell for those who take advantage of the elderly.

[d0nnivain]

But also, there are attorneys and other experts on here.

 

Competent attorneys & other experts do not give free legal advice across state lines to people they have never met. To do so would also violate the attorney client privilege.

 

You have to find a lawyer in your state who knows about this area of the law & can get all the facts, not just what you are willing to post on a message boards. Besides everything you say here could potentially become evidence in any case, so stop posting.

[UpwardForward]

Competent attorneys & other experts do not give free legal advice across state lines to people they have never met. To do so would also violate the attorney client privilege.

 

You have to find a lawyer in your state who knows about this area of the law & can get all the facts, not just what you are willing to post on a message boards. Besides everything you say here could potentially become evidence in any case, so stop posting.

 

(the bolded). How would posting the truth as I see it on here, interfere w my case?

 

And of course I would be consulting w local attorneys.

[UpwardForward]

I think calling a news agency is an excellent idea. It sounds like these people were predatory and I totally agree they need to be stopped.

 

It really angers me to hear of these types of practices and I'm sorry you and your family are going through this.

 

There is a special place in hell for those who take advantage of the elderly.

 

I feel I'm definitely correct about the theft. The collusion and reselling, will have to take further checking. And this (and the loss) have been very painful for me. I'm even too old for another battle. But it's Got to be Done.

 

And yes, if they did this to my mother, there are lots of other families involved - before and after this.

[CarrieT]

(the bolded). How would posting the truth as I see it on here, interfere w my case?

Because in any lawsuit, there is a Plaintiff's truth, a Defendant's truth.

 

And any information about a potential lawsuit is discoverable in a case. Agree with others. Stop posting about it.

[UpwardForward]

Call a local news station; they tend to like these David/Goliath stories and may help with the situation.

 

This is one of the reasons my mother fought me on proceeding, when I first told her I am pursuing.

 

She is afraid auction house will sue her/me for deflamation of character. So how could I broadcast this w/o auction house going after us?

[UpwardForward]

Thank you All for your good advice.

[preraph]

If your mother is who made the contract to auction this stuff, if you didn't want it sold too cheaply, it would have been up to her to place a reserve on those items and agree to keep them if they didn't meet reserve. This is common auction practice, though there may be some auctions who don't do reserves. But you always have the option of using one who does instead of one who does not.

 

Items rarely sell for as much as you wish they had at auction simply because there aren't enough buyers for every single item to get the best price. I am afraid your mother didn't know much about putting things up for auction and that this falls on her for not doing her homework and placing those items on reserve, which is, of course, where you list that the bidding must start at X amount and go up from there. If there are no bids at at least that amount, there will be no sale.

[UpwardForward]

If your mother is who made the contract to auction this stuff, if you didn't want it sold too cheaply, it would have been up to her to place a reserve on those items and agree to keep them if they didn't meet reserve. This is common auction practice, though there may be some auctions who don't do reserves. But you always have the option of using one who does instead of one who does not.

 

Items rarely sell for as much as you wish they had at auction simply because there aren't enough buyers for every single item to get the best price. I am afraid your mother didn't know much about putting things up for auction and that this falls on her for not doing her homework and placing those items on reserve, which is, of course, where you list that the bidding must start at X amount and go up from there. If there are no bids at at least that amount, there will be no sale.

 

Please read my orig post.

 

Yes my mother went against me and didn't tell me prior to consigning. And she was irresponsible about not watching them as they did the orig inventory listing & packing.

 

Much of the pricing they credited her for was not the end pricing. Imo, Items were purchased within the organization, refurbished and resold for thousands more - months later (with more exposure), by same auction house.

 

Many years ago I talked to them about consigning something of mine. At that time they said they didn't offer reserves.

Edited October 27, 2014 by UpwardForward

[preraph]

Many years ago I talked to them about consigning something of mine. At that time they said they didn't offer reserves.

 

Yes, but other places do. And there are a lot of auction places.

[UpwardForward]

Yes, but other places do. And there are a lot of auction places.

 

She was stuck on this one. It was out of my control, as I found out about it afterward, otherwise I would have been there at first discussion and at pickup.

 

That's why I only use eBay. One can control their pricing.

 

They even had the audacity to tell her, she would get better pricing than eBay. Which was untrue on the majority of the consignment.

[Mascara]

Although a civil case would require your mothers consent, you're talking about a criminal case if it's fraud. And that doesn't require her approval. Criminal acts are considered to be against the state, not the individual.

 

I'd pursue it.