What If I Get Ideal Role when Already Newly Employed

[Leigh 87]

Just in advance.... I have not gotten a job offer yet:)

 

How do you go about arranging multiple job interviews, and then getting more than one offer? Or potentially getting another offer once you START a new job?

 

Should you turn down a dream role for a job that is just okay, for the sake of being loyal?

 

....................................................

 

I am awaiting to hear back from one big interview that I had yesterday. If I get a role in the meanwhile, while I await to hear back for this dream job, I would quit the lesser role and accept the better role.

 

Is this wrong?

 

In the meanwhile, I am not expecting to get the role with this high end department store since literally thousands of applicants all applied for the one role of fashion/style consultant. Plenty of beautiful people I am sure who are very pleasant and likable. Although I do think it was a good interview, it certainly wasn't the best I could have done because I was SO nervous, as I REALLY wanted this job. Plenty of things I could have done better in retrospect.

 

Assuming I didn't land my dream role of fashion advisor for the high end store that has all my favourite brands that I would get to work with, I have gone and arranged three interviews tomorrow all in the Sydney CBD, so close to one another.

Two of those jobs are call centre roles that would begin next MONDAY if I was successful.

One of the roles are for assistant manager of a fashion chain.

 

If I am lucky enough to finally get a role I think I should definitely accept it very graciously and NOT risk it by attending more interviews........

It is my job to ask the interviewers questions in order to determine WHICH role is more ideal for me, and also in terms of the team and how I feel about the atmosphere. I will also be asking about their KPI's .... obviously I would opt for a call centre role with easier to meet KPI's as I would more easily get to remain in the role long term that way

 

Thing is, I would MUCH rather be an assistant manager of a fashion store, located at a really convenient location! BOTH the big interview I had yesterday and the assistant manager role I am going for tomorrow, are BOTH located at a really convenient area for me!!

 

I will be genuinely thrilled if I got any job.

 

There are elements I would enjoy about each call centre job.. one is working with a charity and warm calling people who are already interested, and the other is selling financial services for a big bank which I also like the sound of since I enjoy learning new things and I would enjoy learning about the products.

 

I just love fashion though and say, if I were asked to start on Monday at a call centre, and then I found out next WEEK that I did indeed get either of the fashion orientated roles, than what?

 

Would I have to decline the fashion roles?

 

It is just three days or so of training for the call centres anyway, so......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How would you all handle it with integrity and respect?

[Leigh 87]

Just to reiterate, there are:

 

 

-Two call centre jobs I am going for

 

- And TWO roles in fashion retail

 

- I attended one interview yesterday for a phone store but it was 2 hours away, one way, plus it had 200 applicants for the one position. I would rather work in the Sydney CBD closer to my home, then travel two hours each way.....

 

- I have an interview next week as back up in case I am not successful in any of the above ^^. It is a higher salary than the other call centre roles though!

[d0nnivain]

Once I get a job offer if I haven't heard from a position I really want I negotiate a few days to respond to the offer & pick up the phone to call the job I really want. I tell that company I have been extended an offer by another company and need to give them an answer so I would appreciate a time line by when they expect to make hiring decisions. Almost every time I have ever done that, the company I really wanted made me an offer on the spot.

 

N.B. I have never worked for a big corporation that has internal guidelines & red tape.

[clia]

When you interview, it is perfectly fine to ask when they expect to make a decision. That will give you a frame of reference. Did you do that when you interviewed at the retail stores?

 

If you receive an offer in the interim from the call centers, it is perfectly fine to reach out to your point of contact at the job you really want, to advise that you have received another offer and would like to know when they intend to make a decision because you are very interested in the job. In some ways, this is good and shows them you are in demand. However, they may not be able to tell you in enough time, so it may not help you in your current predicament.

 

In your scenario, if you can't get an answer on when the retail store is going to make a decision, IMO you should go ahead and accept the call center job, since it starts next week. You can at least work that while they are deciding at your optimal job. If you get the job, you put in your notice and leave. There is nothing wrong with that. It is what it is. You shouldn't decline a job based on what might happen.

 

I think the job at the phone store is out of the question, given the two hour commute each way.

 

I thought you were planning to start a four week temp job at a call center? Did you decline that job?

[pink_sugar]

I turned down a well paying contract offer, because I recently started a permanent role and didn't want to jump from job to job. I got laid off from that new job 5 months later...now I'm seriously reconsidering loyalty. You just need to do what's best for you.

[Leigh 87]

When you interview, it is perfectly fine to ask when they expect to make a decision. That will give you a frame of reference. Did you do that when you interviewed at the retail stores?

 

The jobs STARTS Monday, lol! They wanted full availability. Good roles, located in Sydney CBD right next to a main station!

 

If you receive an offer in the interim from the call centers, it is perfectly fine to reach out to your point of contact at the job you really want, to advise that you have received another offer and would like to know when they intend to make a decision because you are very interested in the job. In some ways, this is good and shows them you are in demand. However, they may not be able to tell you in enough time, so it may not help you in your current predicament.

 

I am fearful about giving ultimatums. It sometimes is not received well.

 

How would you go about doing that? Work for word?

 

I trust what you would say.

 

I doubt I have the fashion advisory role, honestly it was a long shot, it is for a good company working with designer brands so.... obviously many people went for the role plus I didn't nail the interview But I could tell she liked a lot about what I had to say.

 

In your scenario, if you can't get an answer on when the retail store is going to make a decision, IMO you should go ahead and accept the call center job, since it starts next week. You can at least work that while they are deciding at your optimal job. If you get the job, you put in your notice and leave. There is nothing wrong with that. It is what it is. You shouldn't decline a job based on what might happen.

 

I hate conflict:( I would rather tell the call centres that I am moving locations, LOL, rather than admit that a more suitable role came up.

 

I could always tell them " sorry but I don't think I am suitable for the role and thought it would be better to tell you now rather than later"

 

I think the job at the phone store is out of the question, given the two hour commute each way.

 

Yeah it is a shame since I love smart phones and computers and I would have genuinely enjoyed helping customers with their purchases.

 

They also agreed to work around my Uni hours, and to give me full time hours in the Uni break...

 

I thought you were planning to start a four week temp job at a call center? Did you decline that job?

 

 

I didn't get the role. Over the phone they sounded like they urgently needed me, then the next day I interviewed for the role, spent a fortune getting there in a taxi (the role was around the corner form me but just not the actual interview), and I wore a nice suit, and I didn't get the role,

 

They admitted they couldn't fill the quota for the role, because they would rather have the right people opposed to letting anyone get through.

 

They wanted someone with prior experience in a similar role.

 

Which is bollocks, as they had my resume on hand and they knew of my employment history....

 

And any idiot can pick up the phone and make a call lol.

 

I understand that sometimes it can be hard to give constructive criticism and recruiters would prefer to just make it about your experience when really, your personality and something you did put them off.

 

It wasn't the best interview I have undergone, I was not in a good mood. Whatever:)

 

I'd much rather get a long term role! Than the one month contract!

[Leigh 87]

Rightio,

 

So I now have an interview on FRIDAY for a retail role at storage King ( I travelled a lot in the past and enjoy the process of packing and storying things lol).

 

As well as the three interviews tomorrow.....

 

I will be delighted if I simply get ANY of the roles, as they are all in locations in Sydney that are as ..convenient as possible for me, a person who does NOT live in Sydney but rather, an hour or more away.....

 

 

 

 

 

Um, yeah, so I will basically be feeling really grateful just to get A role, much less know how to turn an offer down!

[HeartDesires]

Hi Leigh,

 

I know about call centres...just remember that during the interview they will zero in and ask about your sales experience.

 

There's a high turn-over rate, employees constantly starting then leaving. They are accustomed to it. So if you start on Monday then are offered your dream job it's perfectly okay to accept it.

 

Good luck!

[clia]

Well, obviously you want a long term role! Sorry that one didn't work out.

 

The jobs STARTS Monday, lol! They wanted full availability. Good roles, located in Sydney CBD right next to a main station!

 

I know that. My question was when the retail jobs you want are going to make a decision. Is it possible that they are making a decision this week? You should always ask in interviews about when the expect they will be making a decision, so you aren't sitting around wondering. It might be a two month process or a two week process. This advice might be too late, given that you've already interviewed. You can say "What is the next step in the process" or "When do you expect to make a decision" during the point of the interview where they ask you for questions, but preferably at the very end of that. This should be your last question.

 

I am fearful about giving ultimatums. It sometimes is not received well.

 

How would you go about doing that? Work for word?

 

I trust what you would say.

 

It's not an ultimatum. It's something along the lines of (and this is off the top of my head and by no means a final version, just so you get the gist of it):

 

Dear Ms. Smith,

 

It was a pleasure meeting you on DATE. As I expressed during my interview with WHOEVER YOU INTERVIEWED WITH, I am very interested in working for YOUR COMPANY, and believe that I am a great fit for this role because REASONS. Blah, blah, reminder of why you would be an asset to their company.

 

I am reaching out to you now because I have received another job offer since my interview with YOUR COMPANY. Working for YOUR COMPANY is my first choice, so I wondered when you expect to make a decision for THE POSITION YOU APPLIED FOR. As I am very interested in the POSITION at YOUR COMPANY, I do not want to make a decision without hearing from you first. Can you please advise when you expect to make a decision so that I can make a fully informative decision with respect to this job offer?

 

Very truly yours,

Leigh87

 

Or something like that. You get the idea. It's not an ultimatum -- it's an "I'm in demand, when are you going to decide?" This is common.

 

I hate conflict I would rather tell the call centres that I am moving locations, LOL, rather than admit that a more suitable role came up.

 

Unless the laws in Australia are really out there, you don't have to tell them anything other than that you are leaving. You have to do what is best for you. You could make something up and say that you don't think it's the job for you. That's fine, and people do it all the time.

[Leigh 87]

I turned down a well paying contract offer, because I recently started a permanent role and didn't want to jump from job to job. I got laid off from that new job 5 months later...now I'm seriously reconsidering loyalty. You just need to do what's best for you.

 

 

 

Well exactly.

 

These companies wont hesitate to get rid of me if I don't meet sales targets, so why shouldn't I do what is best for me?

[Leigh 87]

Well, obviously you want a long term role! Sorry that one didn't work out.

 

 

 

I know that. My question was when the retail jobs you want are going to make a decision. Is it possible that they are making a decision this week? You should always ask in interviews about when the expect they will be making a decision, so you aren't sitting around wondering. It might be a two month process or a two week process. This advice might be too late, given that you've already interviewed. You can say "What is the next step in the process" or "When do you expect to make a decision" during the point of the interview where they ask you for questions, but preferably at the very end of that. This should be your last question.

 

 

 

It's not an ultimatum. It's something along the lines of (and this is off the top of my head and by no means a final version, just so you get the gist of it):

 

Dear Ms. Smith,

 

It was a pleasure meeting you on DATE. As I expressed during my interview with WHOEVER YOU INTERVIEWED WITH, I am very interested in working for YOUR COMPANY, and believe that I am a great fit for this role because REASONS. Blah, blah, reminder of why you would be an asset to their company.

 

I am reaching out to you now because I have received another job offer since my interview with YOUR COMPANY. Working for YOUR COMPANY is my first choice, so I wondered when you expect to make a decision for THE POSITION YOU APPLIED FOR. As I am very interested in the POSITION at YOUR COMPANY, I do not want to make a decision without hearing from you first. Can you please advise when you expect to make a decision so that I can make a fully informative decision with respect to this job offer?

 

Very truly yours,

Leigh87

 

Or something like that. You get the idea. It's not an ultimatum -- it's an "I'm in demand, when are you going to decide?" This is common.

 

 

 

Unless the laws in Australia are really out there, you don't have to tell them anything other than that you are leaving. You have to do what is best for you. You could make something up and say that you don't think it's the job for you. That's fine, and people do it all the time.

 

 

 

 

THANKS.

 

 

I will be using that template in the future, thanks heaps!

[KaliLove]

Depends on whether or not you're willing to burn bridges. It happens all the time in my industry..in fact, I'm most likely about to do it myself. If the benefits outweigh the risks, do it. You have to do what's best for you. Most people understand that.

[GemmaUK]

It's perfectly fine to ask when they will make a decision, personally I have never done that in the form of a letter (I live in the UK though and we don't send thank you letters after interviews - it's not the norm).

A question about the deadline and the thank you are all part of the interview itself the way we do it over here.

 

It's also your life so your choice should you decide to leave a company and go elsewhere. The original employer may not be happy about it but it is your choice at the endof the day.

 

I'm wondering whether you focus too much on the 'product' or 'role of the business in society' rather than the role/position that you are applying for.

 

EG. You mentioned a storage company and you said you have an interest in packing due to travelling.

This is not relevant to a retail role in a storage company.

What would be more relevant is sales experience, customer service, teamwork, ability to keep accurate records.

About the company - security of the site, what type of storage it offers, varying sizes of storage, access to it (is it 24 hr access? Supervised or unsupervised access?). All of these things about the actual company you should have researched in advance so you have a good idea of them and can ask further questions about.

 

Having a passion for fashion is relevant to a role in fashion retail but if the role is for the level of Assistant Manager then they will want to know about your management skills including managing people, ordering, record keeping, organisation of staff rotas, display experience, excellent customer service, teamwork and mucking in when there is a deadline.

They would also want to see in you the fact that you do love fashion (and all that goes with it), meaning your own sense of style, putting clothes, shoes, bags etc together plus self grooming as you will be the face of that store.

 

For call centre's they are interested in fast learners (as with any role to be fair) but for someone who can handle high pressure and tough targets plus someone who is thick skinned enough to have one call one moment where someone is nasty and possibly even abusive and slams the phone down to within seconds putting on a cheery demeanor and making the next call within seconds as if the last call never even happened.

Again, it will be about accurate record keeping and ability to be direct and know your product.

 

All companies are going to employ the person who they think is the one most able to carry out the role they are interviewing for.

Passion for a product is great, however they want to know a person can do the day to day requirements of the job itself.

 

I also spotted earlier that you had said you 'were not in a good mood'. In the types of roles you are going for it is a requirement that whatever mood you might be in you can leave it at home where it belongs and promote a cheerful face and attitude to present to each customer and to the team.

[Leigh 87]

It's perfectly fine to ask when they will make a decision, personally I have never done that in the form of a letter (I live in the UK though and we don't send thank you letters after interviews - it's not the norm).

A question about the deadline and the thank you are all part of the interview itself the way we do it over here.

 

It's also your life so your choice should you decide to leave a company and go elsewhere. The original employer may not be happy about it but it is your choice at the endof the day.

 

I'm wondering whether you focus too much on the 'product' or 'role of the business in society' rather than the role/position that you are applying for.

 

I look for roles that are customer service based as that is where I have excelled in in the past and I genuinely enjoy helping customers.

 

As long as I like the product the retail outlook sells - or alternatively, the product the call centre is pushing, I am excited and happy about work.

 

It is only some of the call centre jobs I am apprehensive about, because I am not sure I believe in or see the benefit in financial services....

 

But yeah, generally, if I am dealing with customers and the sales targets are reasonable then I think I would be very happy in whichever role fits that description... plenty of customer service and not too much in the way of sales...

 

Every retail outlet involves sales in some capacity, but certain places are more about customer service, and sales follow, for example, you upsell things and recommend other cool store products to people who mention they wish to buy more than one thing BUT aren't yet sure where to buy their entire outfit.... Your job is to convince them that " oh, well we actually have a lot that would go with those coloured pants and some of them are sales items too!.

 

Then there are the jobs, namely, call centre roles, that are purely sales driven and you will swiftly get fired if you are not selling A LOT.

 

EG. You mentioned a storage company and you said you have an interest in packing due to travelling.

This is not relevant to a retail role in a storage company.

What would be more relevant is sales experience, customer service, teamwork, ability to keep accurate records.

About the company - security of the site, what type of storage it offers, varying sizes of storage, access to it (is it 24 hr access? Supervised or unsupervised access?). All of these things about the actual company you should have researched in advance so you have a good idea of them and can ask further questions about.

 

Well the interviewer said that she liked how I enjoyed the storage element of travelling and moving countries lol.

 

I was more focused on selling her the reasons I would be ideal for the role, and about my experience in conflict resolution, dealing with complains and example of where I have had to work in a team. Usual crap.

 

Thanks for the pointers, I will find out or ask in the interview to answers to those questions. Preferably I will research it on their website and then mention in the interview how it is great how they ____ do things!~.

 

Having a passion for fashion is relevant to a role in fashion retail but if the role is for the level of Assistant Manager then they will want to know about your management skills including managing people, ordering, record keeping, organisation of staff rotas, display experience, excellent customer service, teamwork and mucking in when there is a deadline.

They would also want to see in you the fact that you do love fashion (and all that goes with it), meaning your own sense of style, putting clothes, shoes, bags etc together plus self grooming as you will be the face of that store.

 

Well I differently dress well and have my own style.

 

I have high personal pride in my grooming habits and would definitely fulfil that element of the role nicely!

 

I believe I could do all the above thing if I am shown just once - they know I have not been a manager before, I was a team leader when I was 16 - 18.

 

For the team leader role I mostly specialised in all the conflict resolution within the team at a young age too, and customer complains (the lovely manager assigned me to that honour).

 

For call centre's they are interested in fast learners (as with any role to be fair) but for someone who can handle high pressure and tough targets plus someone who is thick skinned enough to have one call one moment where someone is nasty and possibly even abusive and slams the phone down to within seconds putting on a cheery demeanor and making the next call within seconds as if the last call never even happened.

Again, it will be about accurate record keeping and ability to be direct and know your product.

 

I enjoy the leaning side of things... I always loved learning the products, studying them and knowing all the answers to any question regarding the product. That was one of my favourite elements of retail and retail sales in the past...

 

I know people hang up on you and call you names. I have call centre friends you know. I know exactly how it is. They tell me everything lol.

 

The good thing about the companies I applied for, is it is warm calling - the people we call have already signed up for the company and have expressed interest!

 

All companies are going to employ the person who they think is the one most able to carry out the role they are interviewing for.

Passion for a product is great, however they want to know a person can do the day to day requirements of the job itself.

 

Well I have always enjoyed and been good at working with people, I can lead when necessary but I am also happy to listen and be assigned tasks. I turn up early, I am reliable etc. I am always happy to have a job when I do and feel lucky to be able to come into work.

 

I also spotted earlier that you had said you 'were not in a good mood'. In the types of roles you are going for it is a requirement that whatever mood you might be in you can leave it at home where it belongs and promote a cheerful face and attitude to present to each customer and to the team.

 

Yeah about the mood thing.. I worked at an Indian restaurant last year and the day my ex dumped me, I worked the following night or even the night OF I think... Yes the night of as he dumped me in the morning.

 

Normally I am professional at cheery at all times, I was just.. I was not ACTINT dejected (which is how I was feeling). I just wasn't at my BEST, lol.

 

I didn't actually act sad. I just wasn't as happy and free flowing as usual!

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the advice by the way!

[Leigh 87]

As for which call centre job I would keep if I was successful in both interviews (which is likely to not be the case lol)

 

Call centre one: for a charity. People that have previously been involved with or have previously signed up, get calls.

 

Lady sounded fun and liked chatting to me - the interviewer. Rate of pay 22 per hour then increases to 23 once you are perm. Full time, in the middle of Sydney CBD.

 

Call centre two: selling financial services. I would enjoy learning about products and would definitely impress them with the fact I retail information about things well.

 

We sell on behalf of a major bank.....to people already involved with the bank so also not a total "cold call"

 

23 per hour ^^^^

 

 

 

 

Which once sounds like the best go? What questions should I ask?

 

I want to know which job is the most lenient and less likely to chew me up and then spit me out the week I don't meet targets!

[Leigh 87]

Was it in bad taste of the open collages recruiter to talk about salary right away?

 

That interview is next Tuesday!

 

She straight out wanted to know what I was currently earning/what I earned as a personal trainer.

 

I thought it was a bit forward.

 

The salary on offer was 47K plus commission.

[Conners]

I think it's still cold calling even though it's the banks clients..

My bank got a hold of my work number somehow and kept pestering me trying to sell me some financial stuff and I lost my patience numerous of times as I told them I wasn't interested and not to call my work number and they kept calling back.

Same for a charity I donated to once. They are always harassing me with calls and I didn't like it ..

[Leigh 87]

I think it's still cold calling even though it's the banks clients..

My bank got a hold of my work number somehow and kept pestering me trying to sell me some financial stuff and I lost my patience numerous of times as I told them I wasn't interested and not to call my work number and they kept calling back.

Same for a charity I donated to once. They are always harassing me with calls and I didn't like it ..

 

Yeah I hate pushy sales people.

 

I do believe these products can genuinely benefit people, it is just a matter of .... finding people who are open to discovering it.

 

How do these sales people meet targets if they piss everybody off?

[FitChick]

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

 

Cross that bridge when you get to it.

 

(Everyone else feel free to add similar proverbs)

[GemmaUK]

Sorry Leigh, I meant your focus when in the actual interview with prospective employers and agencies.

 

Just make sure your focus is 'more' on the role itself rather than the industry.

 

Someone mentioned temping in your other thread. Unless they require you to have some qualifications in Oz then it could be a good way into a role for you.

You know, every company is different. even down to the telephones, coffee machines and photocopiers so we all need help when we first get there.

I haven't enough fingers on my hands to count how many times I have asked how to scan something in our our space age photocopier...there's too many buttons and I only use the thing about twice a year!

With temping you have an easier 'in', an agency interview to see what you are about, what you would like to do. A more relaxed interview with the company (some places don't even bother with that). Get working reliably for an agency and they will think of you for other roles..or you get to prove yourself in a role you are in if you are happy to do a bit more. use initiative and be a team player.

 

I went straight from college (re-sits for high school exams and to try out a few other subjects) straight into an office job two weeks after leaving college.

I learned office work by trying it.

 

You are doing some excel training aren't you? It's a good thing to have. But even so, pretty basic is what most people know and use. To be honest, I love when someone comes to meat work to ask for my help on Excel when they can't figure out how to do it. Asking is OK as long as you learn from it - which I think you would.

 

The fact that you flit about somewhat with what you want to do...again makes me think try temping.

It can give you a great insight into all kinds of things....while you are earning..and earning a good reputation with agencies and employers as well, plus you will be earning experience.

 

This is not meant to be a personal comment..but I feel that you beat yourself up too much, attempt to achieve too much (only for where you are 'right now')and make things too tough for yourself.

 

The 'right now' bit in there means give yourself a break and try the easiest way to get work...it is temping for the admin that you would be happy to do. So many roles want someone 'willing'.

I think you are willing..you just need to get 'in'there.

There is stacks of competition these days but the more experience you can get in something you would be happier doing the better.

 

 

Call centres..two very different types there.

One is the type where someone has cut their contract(most likely) and they want that person back.

I had a lot of hassle from the RSPCA (massive UK animal welfare charity) and they would not give up...

I had learned more about their practices so chose to leave. They were the worst and most persistent callers I ever had.

I would go for Financial Services myself. If you like learning then you will learn more.

Call centres in general are damn tough environments though.

[MidwestUSA]

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

 

Cross that bridge when you get to it.

 

(Everyone else feel free to add similar proverbs)

 

 

 

Don't put your cart before the horse.

[ufo8mycat]

Was it in bad taste of the open collages recruiter to talk about salary right away?

 

No, they are a recruiter and they won't waste their time if there isn't a match in expectation. It is the first question I ask recruiters as there is no point for me, discussing roles that pay too low (too junior) or too high (too senior - usually).

 

The call centre roles are cold calling. Don't overestimate the relationship the people you will be calling having the the bank or the charity. Years ago I gave to a bushfire appeal ONCE and I still get calls asking to buy raffle tickets. Its really irritating.

[Leigh 87]

No, they are a recruiter and they won't waste their time if there isn't a match in expectation. It is the first question I ask recruiters as there is no point for me, discussing roles that pay too low (too junior) or too high (too senior - usually).

 

The call centre roles are cold calling. Don't overestimate the relationship the people you will be calling having the the bank or the charity. Years ago I gave to a bushfire appeal ONCE and I still get calls asking to buy raffle tickets. Its really irritating.

 

 

 

 

Oh well I have no choice but to go for those roles.

 

 

I was successful in the interview today with the company that works with charities. Charities pay the company a small sum in order for the company to get donations via the call centre, among other mediums.

 

 

I have a final test on Monday. If I'm successful then i will start work then.

 

 

I'd have to quit it once college starts. Working for six months is better than not working though..

 

I had an interview with a recruiter. If they like me they will put me through to an interview with the store manager of a fashion store... And then there would be further interviews.

 

 

 

 

I'm on my way to the last interview of the day! In another call centre, selling financial services on behalf of a big banks.

 

 

 

Tomorrow I have another interview for a storage facility. A retail role.

 

 

 

 

If I don't get any of the roles then i am.definately not the most appealing person around ( in person).