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How to get male musicians to take me seriously?


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I’m having a really difficult time networking and meeting male musicians who can take me seriously. This problem wasn’t there when I was in college, but since I’ve matured into my 40s and returned to the music scene after a 20 yr hiatus, and especially in cities like Nashville and LA, the male musicians I am meeting so far cannot subtract sex from any pursuance of a professional relationship.

 

The problem is so bad, that now I’m terrified to keep trying to network expecting the next guy is going to come onto me and thereby ruin the chances we could work together. I’m seriously considering just playing solo on stage with backing tracks because the problem is so bad, and my music is ready for the stage and can’t wait another year for me to pick through guys who aren’t serious.

 

It probably doesn’t help that I am a female hard rock/power metal vocalist and composer in a completely male dominated genre.

 

What am I doing wrong, because this keeps happening so I’m at a loss other than to think something is wrong with me. I do not dress provocatively at all, I always am careful not to show much skin, no cleavage, no skirts, etc. I do not drink alcohol or do drugs, so I know I am not losing control and acting stupid. I don’t have a flirtatious personality. I don’t have a reputation that precedes me, I’m not sexually active and no one knew me in NV nor LA anyways before I arrived, so that can’t be a factor either. I am told I’m very attractive and don’t want to come off like I’m conceited, however I do think that my looks definitely contribute to men’s feeling that I am a conquest more than I am a talented musician, but I can’t change how I look so I can’t fix this for sure.

 

What am I doing wrong that makes guys hit on me and not consider me a professional? I’ve tried working dozens of men in Nashville & LA of varying levels of professional experience and either they nicely come onto me and I politely reject them, never too see them again, or more often they blatantly put their hands on me in an uninvited manner causing me to not so politely reject them and end the working relationship myself.

 

Is there something I should say when I first meet someone and talk about working together to make it 100% clear I am not interested in sex or dating and want only a professional relationship, and is there a way to say it without coming off pretentious or demanding?

 

Or is this a problem that is not likely to go away no matter what I do or don’t do, thereby leaving me with the only option of just performing solo with my guitar, piano and power metal backing tracks?

 

All I want to do is rock. I’d rather do it with a band than alone. Thanks for reading and any comments you can give.

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GorillaTheater

There's a member here who goes by "Freestyle", female and about your age, who's active in the music industry. I don't have much advice to offer, but she might have some good insight for you. I don't see her around much anymore, but I'll let her know about this thread.

 

Good luck and welcome to LS.

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Thanks for your input Eau Claire. I agree with you. Maybe my problem is my approach. I already write and record my own stuff, maybe I need to strictly hire freelance musicians rather than try to collaborate with them. Before in college I wasn't a composer/songwriter just a rhythm guitarist and it was indeed the 80s, but now that I am I think maybe it's my approach to finding professionals that is wrong as now ladies leading hard rock is much more common.

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Glinda.Good

You need to stop trying to adjust yourself in response to those asshats.

 

It's going to happen. You need to stay tough and be able to just "next" them.

 

If they are inclined to come onto you sexually rather than pursue a professional collaboration with you, that's about THEM, not you. Bad boundaries.

 

I know quite a few women who are the leads in bands and also who hire many backup musicians for recording, plenty of whom are male.

 

Boundaries are very clear.

 

Just keep your focus on who you are and what you want to accomplish with your music. Don't get distracted by those people. Show cleavage if you want to. Be badass. You need to in that business.

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I would think your music and talent would speak for you and you don't have to do anything but be really good. If your music is awesome they will take you seriously.

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Most women who've done their time in a few bands have dealt with not being taken as seriously, or someone offering to "help out" with their sound, even when they possess similar or greater skill sets than the men they're working with. Or men who believe that a woman musician only got where she's at due to her femininity or sexuality. Reality is that women artists have to be more put together, professional and assertive than their male counterparts. If someone is behaving like a time waster instead of a professional stop wasting your time with them. Be good at what you do, be assertive but realistic about your talent and focused about marketing yourself. Expect to be called a b*tch (and worse) and to have more than a few doors slammed in your face. Don't personalize rejection in this industry, it's par for the course.

 

I already write and record my own stuff, maybe I need to strictly hire freelance musicians rather than try to collaborate with them.
Sounds like a good approach; hire the best guys for the job, rather than tailoring yourself to meet the expectations of someone who may not even be taking you seriously. There are definitely more women artists in metal than there were even a decade ago but even getting an act going is still going to be a lot of work.
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@Glinda.Good & @ O'Malley & everyone else....

 

Excellent responses. Wow I feel so much better now. I'm glad to hear I'm not alone, but that also the power really is in my hands in the end. It has been my approach, which means, my problem is totally solvable. I alway believe you have to take responsibility to get answers to life's problems, and again I was correct to question myself rather than these men.

 

Everyone you helped me figure out that I need to change my course, and exactly how.

 

THANK YOU ALL! \m/

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  • 2 weeks later...

Network network network. It's a numbers game, and there might come a time when you'll come across someone who will keep it professional and not personal. A real businessman will keep business and pleasure separate.

Practice and be a shokunin of your own right.

Edited by jonsnuh
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Wow, and I thought us CS/SE girls had it bad.

 

Sorry to hear about the problem, OP. I can't help much as I'm not into the rock music scene, but from one woman in a male-dominated career to another, I wish you all the best and hope you manage to push past this.

 

Good luck!

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acrosstheuniverse

You just have to act professionally at all times, if somebody hits on you then brush it off with a 'I'm flattered, but I'm not looking for anything at the moment' and next the conversation straight onto something appropriate, pretend the hitting on never happened. That's a way that you can still maintain and build professional relationships with guys in a male-dominated field.

 

Trust me, I've been there. I'm a musician, I've completed a degree in straight Music (specialised in musicology), led orchestras touring Europe on the violin, competed playing the classical piano and played keyboards in metal bands. I even ended up writing my thesis on why the metal scene (specifically one sub-genre of metal) is such an overwhelmingly male-dominated genre.

 

There's nothing you can do other than continue to prove yourself, prove your skills, act professional. It sucks because a) most men will presume you got to where you are because you're a female and stand out from the crowd and b) your talent will often be noticed solely because 'wow, she's a woman and she's awesome on guitar!' rather than simply 'wow, great guitarist'. It's both a blessing and a curse, though I'd lean more towards the latter. Often, your appearance will be noted far more often than your songwriting abilities or ability to sweep pick! I used to feel that one of the reasons one of my bands got so much attention was because they had a female keyboard player. On the flip side, many musos wouldn't take us seriously because there was a girl in the band and nobody expects girls to be able to shred keys. You have to prove yourself twice as hard, which sucks and is unfair.

 

It's a tough world out there but nobody is pursuing music because it's easy, they're pursuing it because without it, they would suffocate. If you're following your passion I believe you can overcome obstacles because you basically have to to carry on. And if you love it enough, there's no option but to carry on.

 

Good luck.

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Acrosstheuniverse has some good tips there about shrugging off hits and moving on so fast they don't know they've been rejected. I do know a woman who takes herself seriously in the music genre she has chosen and the guys take her seriously too. They wouldn't dare to because they know she is serious about music. She is a very attractive woman and they are all attracted to her, but somehow her focus on the music comes through.

 

I'm not a professional musician myself, but an amateur. I play guitar, not amazingly brilliant but better than some of the guys who play in the same places. It's amazing how women aren't taken seriously from the start. I've had guys offer to teach me or ask me if I sing, if I bring a guitar along. The assumption seems to be that I must not be able to play the guitar properly but just bring it along to strum a few chords while I sing and that i must need teaching. When I do play, they look dumbfounded for a while (and i'm not that good either - I just show I could play most of what they could!) and then their attitude changes to one of acceptance as a musician and even respect, though they will keep making suggestions that I could try :). I've had accomplished guitarists come over to me after I've played a small contribution to a music session and compliment me on my playing. I know it's not bad.

 

I guess the point I'm making is that demonstrating your ability helps to get past the automatic 'she's a woman, can't play' bias, and that focusing purely on the music can help make them realise that you are there for the music first and foremost.

Edited by spiderowl
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I don’t have a reputation that precedes me,

 

Rock Chick, there's your problem right there! When I read that line, I almost laughed out loud because if you really do want to be serious in the music industry, your reputation better be built up and preceding you.

 

I saw absolutely nothing in your original post that was professional sounding at all. Every single professional musician I know doesn't sound like you.

 

I'll explain the difference a bit.

 

These days, the internet is a musicians best friend and worst enemy at the same time so the trick is to use the internet to promote yourself in the most professional way possible. Youtube is absolutely free so get at least a good handful of videos of your vocals up on Youtube and keep your whole idea of not dressing provocatively at the forefront. Make your videos instructional videos for people new to starting out in the Power Metal vocal style. They will be so thankful you help them get started and other people will bump into your videos that you really want to hear from. Be helpful!

 

Hire (don't complain about money, get it together) session musicians and put together at least a few songs and record them either in a studio with professionals or hire someone semi-professional to do the recording. Most guitarists these days can record no problem so find session musicians with recording equipment.

 

Get to every Metal show in your town and start shaking hands with fans and bands. Be polite. There are people at Death Metal shows who also like Power Metal so get to their shows and when you introduce yourself, make sure you make yourself and your music findable and easily accessible. Direct people to your videos online (use an easy name to find so they can just Google you right up) and when you get music recorded, dump the cash on a nice stack of copies of your CD and hand them out at shows like everybody else who ever made it to touring.

 

This is just how to START!! And any touring musicians I know started at Metal shows handing their CD's out they paid for out of their own pockets! Now, they're touring.

 

One other thing, have you even called your local recording studios yet asking about any session musicians they have that they know personally who might be interested in Power Metal? Have you called your closest 3 studios? If that failed, did you call the closest 5 or 6?

 

Time to get moving, lady!

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