Letter of recommendation after an ugly situation

[unicorn farts]

Here's the abridged version of how I left my job:

 

My entire department was let go without warning. I was 8 months pregnant at the time, and this has created enormous financial hardship for our family at the worst possible time. My old boss, someone I considered a mentor and friend, committed suicide on the day we were all let go. There was additional drama involving lawsuits from the family (they worked for the same company and HR was hiding from them, it was bizarre), personal threats made by the old boss's sons to the guy who fired everyone, and the whole situation resulted in a lot of bad blood.

 

Since my boss committed suicide and my supervisor and coworkers scattered to the winds after the incident, the only person I could possibly ask for a recommendation is the man who orchestrated the mass surprise layoffs. I am reluctant to do this, the thought of being in the same building as him makes my skin crawl. Should I bother trying to get one? Email? Or just explain to potential employers that my old boss has passed away? I really don't know.

[Got it]

I wouldn't bother with that. I would give HR's number as a contact if needed but I would wouldn't bother with a letter of reference. Absolutely state that it was a reduction of force, not a firing and let the potential employer follow up with them.

 

Sorry you went through all of that, how awful.

[MsSmurf]

I agree with Got_it and would also add that it isn't your place to state that your old boss passed away. That could open the door to all kinds of questions and you being in a position to say something you shouldn't. Never mind the letter, it won't be worth the horror show you'd experience to get it. Just provide HR's number and keep your responses polite and professional. Surely you have other references from prior jobs, professional networks, places you volunteer, etc that would be willing to speak to potential employers/write a letter on your behalf.

[unicorn farts]

Thanks for the advice! I think I won't bother with a letter. It's just infuriating to lose such a good reference after years at this place. The company I worked at prior to this one went under completely in 2010, so my references are thin on the ground at this point. I think I am going to go back to my university department and scrounge up some old professors to help pad out my references.

 

Only a couple of weeks before the end the old boss had written letters recommending me for a special certification in my field that would have helped further my career. Those letters were in his office and are now, of course, gone. In hindsight I should have asked for them, but I was too shocked at the time to think of it. If I want to get that certification now (and I will need it unless I manage to change fields) I will have to get the paperwork signed by that creep. Ugh.

 

Also, I realize this whole situation sounds insane and absurd and like something that probably happened at a KFC. It was a biomedical research facility staffed by professionals ranging in age from their late 20s to early 60s. Just crazy.

[Got it]

I really don't know how much you need a letter(s) of reference. I have been hiring people for years and at a high quantity and we really don't give any preferential thought for those with references. Now, networking and getting a verbal recommendation from our executives, sure, but outside of that it really doesn't hold much weight as their opinion is really unknown/judged to us.

 

I would work your LinkedIn account, network though associations that are related to your field of work/position, and I also suggest working through recruiters. You don't have to pay them anything and they will start marketing you to companies.

 

In this day and age there are many people laid off, from companies that don't exist anymore, etc.

[unicorn farts]

Thanks, Got It! Great advice. I will work on my LinkedIn and check out recruiters. I admit I'm a bit inexperienced when it comes to job hunting, I lucked into my last job through word of mouth and good timing so I wasn't out searching for long.

[pink_sugar]

I really don't know how much you need a letter(s) of reference. I have been hiring people for years and at a high quantity and we really don't give any preferential thought for those with references. Now, networking and getting a verbal recommendation from our executives, sure, but outside of that it really doesn't hold much weight as their opinion is really unknown/judged to us.

 

I would work your LinkedIn account, network though associations that are related to your field of work/position, and I also suggest working through recruiters. You don't have to pay them anything and they will start marketing you to companies.

 

In this day and age there are many people laid off, from companies that don't exist anymore, etc.

 

I agree. Employers seem to prefer to do the contacting of references themselves and speak to them personally and they usually aren't required until you are extended a job offer.

[pink_sugar]

I have a company on my resume that is no longer in business and I still have the offer letter with my supervisor's signature and her contact number if push comes to shove.

 

My advice to anyone is save those offer letters which would confirm that you actually worked there

 

Ah yes, verification. Usually they will ask for a W-2 if they are unable to get in contact with the company to verify for any reason. This happened with one of my previous employers. An offer letter can help, but a W-2 I think would have more weight since it's a formal document for tax purposes.

 

Yeah, it is strange how they check references after extending an offer. My references were checked after they extended the job offer at the job I just started, which was contingent on background, verification and references being completed prior to my giving notice to my past employer. I guess it depends on the company.

Edited October 13, 2013 by pink_sugar

[pink_sugar]

At my job they did the background check after I started which meant I didn't have a password or username for email and just had to read for 10 days lol They should have done all of that before i started

 

Oh wow, that's seriously some incompetent HR department. What would they have done if you ended up having a criminal record? Leave you jobless?

[2sure]

I was going to point out, that if you really feel you want that referral there's a pretty good and tried way to get it. Email the boss , copy the HR dept, and tell him....

 

That as per advice from the dept. Of Labor, you are requesting a letter of recommendation to add to your resume. Tell him that the letter should include your start date, performance record, reason for leaving and any other information that might be helpful to your job search.

 

He or HR will write off probably a form letter , that due to liability risk will include no negative information. Just the facts. When either are called in the future, they will stick to that since its in writing.

 

It works, good luck.

[pink_sugar]

isn't the former supervisor being listed as a reference still as good as a letter of recommendation?

 

I'm not sure. My current employer required 2 supervisor references (or someone who has supervised me in the past) doesn't need to be your direct employer. This could also be a team lead, department supervisor or etc. Do you happen to know anyone else who supervised you at this company that could write a letter? I still do not think it is necessary as most companies will require some sort of reference check where they will want to actually speak with someone about your performance or work ethic.

[Got it]

I was going to point out, that if you really feel you want that referral there's a pretty good and tried way to get it. Email the boss , copy the HR dept, and tell him....

 

That as per advice from the dept. Of Labor, you are requesting a letter of recommendation to add to your resume. Tell him that the letter should include your start date, performance record, reason for leaving and any other information that might be helpful to your job search.

 

He or HR will write off probably a form letter , that due to liability risk will include no negative information. Just the facts. When either are called in the future, they will stick to that since its in writing.

 

It works, good luck.

 

Yeah, any halfway knowledgeable HR department is going to roll their eyes at this as the DOL would never tell an employer they had to write a letter of recommendation.

 

The best you will get and this isn't even a requirement is verification of employment. So name, rank and serial number. Most HR departments will not even answer the question if said person is rehireable or not as it isn't worth the legal issues.

 

There really is little reason to put so much effort into this. Employers that are not small employers (I can't speak for them) will not care. They are going to have their own pre-selection screening process. This may include phone interview, face to face interview, behavioral assessment testing, day in the life, etc. That is going to give the future employer a much better understanding of the candidate than a letter of recommendation. The letter or rec is suspect and there is really little bar to assess if this is a worthwhile assessment and if there is really any parallel to the new company.

[pink_sugar]

I always made sure all of my references were previous supervisors because they were able to speak about my work performance. I would hope a person wouldn't be dumb enough to contact a current employer

 

Most employers will get your permission before contacting your current employer. Most of the time, you can check no to contact on applications or you can tell them you prefer they not be contacted until notice has been given. It happened that way for me at my most recent job. They needed to contact my current employer for verification and they waited until I had formally given them my 2 week notice before doing so.

 

However, somehow my brother's last employer was contacted by another employer without his consent. This is not the norm though.

[pink_sugar]

Is that because they are about to offer you the job? I never looked for a job when I was employed so i don't know.

 

Yeah, they do verification after giving you the job offer just to verify employment history.

[2sure]

Yeah, any halfway knowledgeable HR department is going to roll their eyes at this as the DOL would never tell an employer they had to write a letter of recommendation.

 

Actually, they do it every single day . In NYS they have a resume building center and advisement office connected to unemployment. Putting together a resume along with cover letters annd references is a service offered and it is their advice I referred to.

 

If I didnt know exactly what I was talking about, I wouldnt have mentioned it. You could learn from that.

[Got it]

Yeah, any halfway knowledgeable HR department is going to roll their eyes at this as the DOL would never tell an employer they had to write a letter of recommendation.

 

Actually, they do it every single day . In NYS they have a resume building center and advisement office connected to unemployment. Putting together a resume along with cover letters annd references is a service offered and it is their advice I referred to.

 

If I didnt know exactly what I was talking about, I wouldnt have mentioned it. You could learn from that.

 

One, the DOL does not mandate letters of recommendation from employers. Period. What you may be referencing are employment verifications. Two very different things.

 

And even with the employment verification an employer has the right to ignore said requests and not answer them. There is no state or federal statute or law that requires them to do so.

 

I have no idea what your point about unemployment services in NY means? That still has nothing to do with the DOL's demands for letter of references and employer statutes.

 

I deal with employment law and hiring practices on a daily basis and have a pretty good understanding not just in NY but in most of the continental US and state specific employment laws.

[pink_sugar]

 

One, the DOL does not mandate letters of recommendation from employers. Period. What you may be referencing are employment verifications. Two very different things.

 

And even with the employment verification an employer has the right to ignore said requests and not answer them. There is no state or federal statute or law that requires them to do so.

 

 

This sounds about right. I had to provide a W-2 as proof for one employer. This as a first for me in regards to verification, so I definitely will be holding on to records. An employer refusing to verify could jeopardize a potential job, so be prepared to provide your own proof if necessary. I was actually afraid of this happening with my last employer, because he refuses a lot of calls.

[ancient333]

I was actually afraid of this happening with my last employer, because he refuses a lot of calls.

[Got it]

 

This sounds about right. I had to provide a W-2 as proof for one employer. This as a first for me in regards to verification, so I definitely will be holding on to records. An employer refusing to verify could jeopardize a potential job, so be prepared to provide your own proof if necessary. I was actually afraid of this happening with my last employer, because he refuses a lot of calls.

 

It may but I think that would be in the minority. Usually the prospective employer will move to an earlier employer or move on the person without it.

 

The one area that employment verifications will cause major issues is anything dealing with financial transactions. That will stop buying a house in its tracks if your employer will not comply. But the W-2 is a great idea! We have asked for that, or the most recent pay stub, when we want to verify that the person was making what they said they were and to support the salary we have agreed to.

 

But, again, this is all pretty routine for an HR department. I best recommendation is to give a direct number to the person in HR who handles employment verifications, if said department requires the request in writing to make sure that is communicated, and 9 times out of 10 it will be supported. But this is one of the last measures in the hiring process during the background check process (if company is doing one).

[pink_sugar]

 

It may but I think that would be in the minority. Usually the prospective employer will move to an earlier employer or move on the person without it.

 

The one area that employment verifications will cause major issues is anything dealing with financial transactions. That will stop buying a house in its tracks if your employer will not comply. But the W-2 is a great idea! We have asked for that, or the most recent pay stub, when we want to verify that the person was making what they said they were and to support the salary we have agreed to.

 

But, again, this is all pretty routine for an HR department. I best recommendation is to give a direct number to the person in HR who handles employment verifications, if said department requires the request in writing to make sure that is communicated, and 9 times out of 10 it will be supported. But this is one of the last measures in the hiring process during the background check process (if company is doing one).

 

Yeah, unfortunately there was no HR dept at my last job. (super small company) so thankfully my boss did take the call, although he insisted the other employer must be calling him for a reference, even though I made it clear that it was for verification. I mean why would an employer be calling him for a reference after accepting a job offer and putting in my notice? But yeah he also refuses a lot of calls.

[2sure]

 

One, the DOL does not mandate letters of recommendation from employers. Period. What you may be referencing are employment verifications. Two very different things.

 

And even with the employment verification an employer has the right to ignore said requests and not answer them. There is no state or federal statute or law that requires them to do so.

 

I have no idea what your point about unemployment services in NY means? That still has nothing to do with the DOL's demands for letter of references and employer statutes.

 

I deal with employment law and hiring practices on a daily basis and have a pretty good understanding not just in NY but in most of the continental US and state specific employment laws.

 

You are impaired and unfit if you can't wrap your head around the information I have given. Seriously, you shouldnt be employed in your field. Period.

[2sure]

 

One, the DOL does not mandate letters of recommendation from employers. Period. What you may be referencing are employment verifications. Two very different things.

 

And even with the employment verification an employer has the right to ignore said requests and not answer them. There is no state or federal statute or law that requires them to do so.

 

I have no idea what your point about unemployment services in NY means? That still has nothing to do with the DOL's demands for letter of references and employer statutes.

 

I deal with employment law and hiring practices on a daily basis and have a pretty good understanding not just in NY but in most of the continental US and state specific employment laws.

 

You are impaired and unfit if you can't wrap your head around the information I have given. Seriously, you shouldnt be employed in your field.

The process I explained is SIMPLE and common . I'm well versed in labor law myself or like I said, I wouldn't have spoken up.

 

Pretty easy to get your shorts in a bunch. Such fun!

[Got it]

2sure, it is okay to admit when you are wrong. The world won't come tumbling down.

 

Sorry, but based on what you have written it really doesn't seem to be that way at all so was trying to help educate you. But if you believe what you post . . . . well good luck with that.

[2sure]

Still? You are being ridiculous . NYS Dept. of Labor Career Centers . I take a group of new refugees there once a month on a "field trip" where they learn tips on getting a job. They have information and ADVICE ON RESUMES, LETTERS OF REFERENCE, ETC. Someone else takes them to the grocery store.

 

Very basic stuff. It's all advice, none of it mandated. The OP was asking about a referral, not a law, not a mandate. He dept. of labor advises people to have references and that's exactly what I repeated.

 

Why on earth you felt the need to be contrary on such a simple thing , a matter of opinion really. I have to ignore you. You're nuts. Shoo.