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Is Maternity Leave a Form of Employee Discrimination...?


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Old 8th May 2013, 7:20 PM   #46
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In my opinion, mothers shouldn't work at all until the children are 10 or so. Why the **** do you even have children in the first place if you don't want to take care of them and would rather be slaving away for your boss instead of caring for them and nurturing them?
10?

I went back to work when my youngest went to kindergarten. Since my husband had been working all those years, he has more sick time than I do. When the kid is sick, he stays home.

Fathers are parents, too.

As for benefits to maternity leave, the gov't wants parents working, so they build in leave so that parents can get back to work. Without leave, fewer parents would work. So it is essentially about keeping parents in the work force, not keeping them out.
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Old 8th May 2013, 7:24 PM   #47
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the gov't wants parents working
Ever asked yourself why?
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Old 8th May 2013, 7:27 PM   #48
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Ever asked yourself why?
Sure. The almighty economy.

I bucked the system for years. But I still understand it.
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Old 8th May 2013, 10:02 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by USMCHokie View Post
Is Maternity Leave a Form of Employee Discrimination...?


Of course - but you just don't have the understanding to know what "discrimination" really is.

All you needed to do was look-up "discrimination" in the dictionary instead of writing that whole rant.
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Old 8th May 2013, 10:11 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by USMCHokie View Post
It just seems ironic that someone would cry discrimination because an employer did not want to give them preferential treatment (i.e., discriminate against those who don't bear chlidren).

Seems you don't know what irony is either.


An employer is discriminating when merely having a women's restroom and a separate men's restroom, and there is nothing illegal about "discrimination".

Anyone of third grade education or higher could look up the word and discern as much.
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Old 8th May 2013, 11:16 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Star Gazer View Post
Correct. You are protected as though you have a temporary disability.



Very few companies these days actually offer paid maternity and/or paternity leave. They allow unpaid leave, or allow you to use sick, vacation, PTO, personal holidays, etc., to obtain compensation for the period of time you're out.



The bolded is INCORRECT. A protected class means a protected class: white/black, male/female, disabled/NOT-disabled, Christian/Atheist. You cannot discriminate against or in favor of an employee based on their protected classification. Period.



This is ALSO INCORRECT and has been since 2011:

Discrimination Based on Sexual Orientation, Status as a Parent, Marital Status and Political Affiliation







Gosh, lay people annoy me with this stuff.

Sorry, not a lay person and not incorrect. Based on your assessment affirmative action would be illegal.

And California is just one state that protects sexual orientation. They are not the only one.

And many companies offer maternity and/or paternity leave. Certain industries will vary, will see it more in white collar than blue collar, but many companies do recognize and offer maternity leave. Actually it is not uncommon even in transient industries like the food or hospitality industries.

I hate when people comment on things they apparently have no knowledge of.

Last edited by Got it; 8th May 2013 at 11:18 PM..
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Old 8th May 2013, 11:34 PM   #52
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I think preferential treatment is an employer letting someone who claims they need to leave early because they have kids at home and not allowing anyone else to leave early for any reason is unfair. I worked retail at one point and we were working until 1am one time and all of us were forced to stay late. Someone with a 10 and 14 year old got to leave early...(despite the kids not being little and the fact she also lived with her mother) and even though I had school assignments and a test the next day, I was not allowed to leave. I think that is discrimination.
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Old 8th May 2013, 11:35 PM   #53
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My company does not provide paid maternity leave. Leave yes, but unpaid.
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Old 9th May 2013, 12:04 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Eggplant View Post
My company does not provide paid maternity leave. Leave yes, but unpaid.
My company also provides plenty of time off....unpaid.
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Old 9th May 2013, 12:05 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Got it View Post
Sorry, not a lay person and not incorrect.
How many years of strictly employment counseling and litigation do you have under your belt, I'm sincerely curious. Oh, that's right. NONE! You're not an attorney!

Sorry, you ARE a lay person, and you remain absolutely incorrect.

You said: "They are expected to not discriminate negatively against one on a protected class. They can discriminate positively towards those in a protected class."

The underlined is flatly wrong. Logically speaking, you cannot discriminate positively towards those within a protected class without ALSO discriminating negatively towards those in the same protected class.

Example: Discriminating positively/in favor of women, by its very nature, is disparate treatment against men, or at the very least creates a disparate impact (that phrase would ring a bell for you if you were an employment or civil rights attorney) against men, and thus is discriminating negatively against men based on their sex/gender, and thus unlawful.

Being a woman is not the "protected class." Sex/gender is the protected class. That means a person cannot be discriminated against because of their sex/gender - whether male or female. This is precisely why you cannot discriminate against one, but in favor of the other. If you're doing it in favor of one, it's against the other, and vice versa.

The term "protected class" does not refer to a specific group of people, such as to mean that women are protected but not men, or blacks are protected but not whites, or Muslims are protected but not Christians, or paraplegics are protected but not the able-bodied. Rather, it means that gender/sex, race, religion, disability (all respectively) are protected classes, and those protected classes cannot legally factor into a decision made about employment (or housing or public accommodations or facilities).

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And California is just one state that protects sexual orientation. They are not the only one.
Huh? I wasn't referring to California anywhere in my post. EEOC decisions are binding on all cases falling within federal subject matter jurisdiction, not just California. I would expect you to know that.

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And many companies offer maternity and/or paternity leave. Certain industries will vary, will see it more in white collar than blue collar, but many companies do recognize and offer maternity leave.
I didn't say that wasn't the case. However, in my experience, very few employers actually offer paid maternity benefits.

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I hate when people comment on things they apparently have no knowledge of.
I have plenty of knowledge and lawyerly certificates on my wall that say otherwise.







Last edited by Star Gazer; 9th May 2013 at 12:18 AM.. Reason: Linky link included. :cool:
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Old 9th May 2013, 12:43 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Lauriebell82 View Post
You'll need to find a rich husband then...
Or... she could choose not to have children.

IMO it's perfectly valid for a woman to choose whether or not she has children based on financial circumstances, and her ability to take care of them in the manner that she deems fit.

There are plenty of women whose opinion on this DOESN'T change after having children. In fact, I have seen more of the opposite - women who think that they would want to work after having children but end up wanting to stay at home with the kids, at least for the first 5 years or so.
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Old 9th May 2013, 3:42 AM   #57
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USM,

ERA has never passed. Employers can (and do) discriminate based on gender.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment

Last edited by Seachelle1; 9th May 2013 at 3:47 AM.. Reason: Adding more information.
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Old 9th May 2013, 3:57 AM   #58
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GotIt and Sincere,

Equal Employment Opportunity Act means that the person has to be hired in the first place if they are best suited for the job out of the application pool. Very rarely does a civil suit win or can honest action be taken against employers who do not follow the law because it is so hard to prove. The qualifiers for best applicant are subjective and difficult to define.

ERA not passing dictates that a woman can be reasonably discriminated against in certain situations. It doesn't mean carte blanche for the employer but it does mean they can legally fire in some situations due to uncontrollable situations having to do with gender. 7 Ways You Can Be Fired For Your Appearance -- Legally - Careers Articles
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Old 9th May 2013, 7:59 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Negative Nancy View Post
Typical individualistic perspective. They DO contribute to society by supporting social security of old people - and to the businesses by popping out the future consumers and customers.
I have read this many times in various places and am not sure I agree...because there are many who disagree. So I asked someone who had retired if he believed that me, as a 20something year old, is contributing towards his upkeep in old age. He said no.
I can actually believe that...SORRY!!! Those people worked and paid their tax and national insurance for their state pension and contributed to their own savings...I am not paying for them to live in old age. THEY ARE.

The only ones who I might be contributing towards are those who never worked a day in their lives and live on benefits

Quote:
In my opinion, mothers shouldn't work at all until the children are 10 or so. Why the **** do you even have children in the first place if you don't want to take care of them and would rather be slaving away for your boss instead of caring for them and nurturing them?
I think its a personal choice. If the time came, I personally wouldn't do that...because I don't believe its healthy. I would prefer to ease back into work-go back part time...and build it up to full time.
I think children need to interact with other children at nurseries/playgroups etc. and with other people so they can be healthy, well adjusted, well rounded and secure (just my opinion). I don't realy believe that staying at home all day for 4/5/10 years makes you a more caring or a better parent.
From the group of people I know who have done the stay at home thing...I don't think its really for me...but more power to those who do
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Old 9th May 2013, 8:19 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Lauriebell82 View Post
As someone who was on maternity leave I will say that wasn't much "preferential" about it. My company made it difficult, they didn't pay me, and it was pretty hard to get back in the "swing of things" when I did come back. Plus I was taking care of a newborn baby all by myself while my husband was at work. I ended up quitting my full time position because of the hassle they gave me.

Maternity leave isn't just some elective fun vacation that you get while everyone else in the company is hard at work.
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Originally Posted by Eggplant View Post
My company does not provide paid maternity leave. Leave yes, but unpaid.
These things make me very sad you know I have a friend in the US who has two children. Her first baby, she had a difficult caesarean...they threatened her with the loss of her job if she didn't return to work after 6 weeks ...she eventually went back after 8.
With her second baby, when she wrote to tell me of his birth she said she had 12 weeks unpaid maternity leave. I was so shocked, I showed my mum the letter. She told me it was normal and that in most other parts of the world, women are not afforded the same maternity benefits as those in this country
Can't believe it! It makes me so upset...because I think women in this country are so ungrateful for what they get :
  • Your maternity care is free
  • Your healthcare/dental care and prescriptions for a year after the birth of your baby is free
  • You get paid maternity leave for a year (3 months at 90% I think and the rest at statutory maternity pay which isn't much...but its still money)
  • You get tax relief/credits in some way or other if you have children (I am not sure how it works but you get a portion of your tax back). Note: you are also eligible for this if you don't work any don't pay any tax.
  • You get vouchers from the government for using on milk/fruit/veg (this is abused frequently but thats another story)
  • You used to get a one off payment of around 200 just for being pregnant(yes, I am not joking) it was abolished last year or so though.
  • Your priority with social housing is pushed above other people on the waiting list because you have children or are pregnant (which is why you might always hear about the uproar of teenagers getting pregnant to get houses over here)

Back to the original point! I have never believed maternity leave is a form of discimination.
I do believe that being pregnant or having children can be used to someone's advantage at the expense of other people at the workplace
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