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Almond_Joy

So apparently in the US (don't really know about other countries), employers are regularly asking for facebook credentials now when interviewing candidates. I'd seen a few articles circulating about three months ago and though they were isolated incidents.

 

In class tonight the subject was brought up. Up to this point, I'd seen - overwhelmingly - that people are against it, that it's perceived as an invasion of privacy.

 

I was very surprised to hear a classmate who happens to be a seasoned HR professional agree with the new trend, saying that it's important the employer knows what kind of image a candidate will represent as part of their company, and that if a candidate has a social networking profile, any content they post is considered freely accessible to the public domain.

 

I'm very much against it. I make use of all the privacy filters that Facebook provides users, so that it's as difficult as possible to even find my profile, let alone see detailed information on it. I think if I take such care to make sure my information is NOT publicly viewable, the employer should respect my privacy. It's one thing if they want me to friend a profile for the business or become a fan of a page on the business they may have set up. I'd be fine with that. But to give them my log in credentials???? I mean that's full access - private messages, IM's, photos. An employer, I don't feel, has a right to all that information just so I can work for them.

 

What do you all think about this new trend?

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I don't see the point of FB other than keeping in touch with people who have moved away from your immediate life (eg. move to the other side of the world).

 

HR-managers usually side with the bosses. Whenever there is a reorganisation and the HR-department gets "streamlined", it is usually not the office grunts who complain. Think about that.

 

Any potential employer that would want some ass-kissing from me, can forget about me. Mind you, I am not the kind of person to publicly badmouth employers. The fact that they think that because they'd be paying my salary, they have a right to own my private life, is for me reason enough not to bother with them - and if I worked at a company that put in such a new policy, I would resign (if financially viable, else look for a new job).

 

I refuse to sell my soul to a corporate.

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It's one thing if they want me to friend a profile for the business or become a fan of a page on the business they may have set up. I'd be fine with that. But to give them my log in credentials???? I mean that's full access - private messages, IM's, photos. An employer, I don't feel, has a right to all that information just so I can work for them.

 

What do you all think about this new trend?

 

I've never heard of that, and I absolutely agree with you that an employer should not have a right to view private messages and conversations that you've conducted through Facebook but that aren't in the public domain.

 

It's a wholly unreasonable expectation. If they were to have those kinds of details, it wouldn't just be your privacy they were breaching - it would be your friends' privacy too.

 

If there are private companies imposing a condition as unreasonable as this on employees (and, no doubt, taking advantage of the current economic climate - in which a lot of people are so desperate that they'll say yes to anything - in doing so) then I think that's a point at which Government should intervene.

 

I'm certain that a company couldn't get away with imposing ridiculous conditions like that on employees where I live, because it would fall under the Unfair Terms and Conditions legislation - which has been held to apply in employment contracts. Broadly, unreasonable and prejudicial conditions imposed by the party with more bargaining power on the party with less bargaining power aren't valid.

 

Isn't there similar legislation in the US?

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Lostinlife4now

No it is not right for an employer to look into a facebook page....

 

Besides the background check, drug test, credit check.

 

It is none of their business what I do in my personal life with my family and friends.......

 

And if they do want to have my facebook log in....I WILL NOT WORK FOR THEM......

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LittlePrince

I don't have a fb account so if asked I guess I'd have to hand over a book with my face in it and title it facebook.

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Individual privacy has disappeared with the invention of the Internet. No one's personal information is private/safe anymore. It's available at one click of the mouse.

 

Legislation is being created to prevent US Employers from invading their employees' privacy via Facebook accounts. Also, Facebook is working on that issue as well. It's unconstitutional for an employer to access its employee's Facebook account - equivalent to asking for the house keys to their personal home. It's absolutely sickening.

 

Once/if I get my teacher license and interview for teaching jobs, I'm going to ask if seeing my Facebook is a requirement. If it is, I won't teach for that school. I know plenty of teachers who have active Facebook pages whose schools couldn't care less. But some public and private schools have that policy in place which is ludicrous.

 

Facebook Passwords: Employers and Schools Demand Access; Facebook and Senators Respond - ABC News

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/technology/senators-want-employers-facebook-password-requests-reviewed.html

 

Senator vows to stop employers asking for your Facebook password | ZDNet

 

Employers Shouldn't Ask for Facebook Passwords - Susan Milligan (usnews.com)

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pink_sugar

Whatever happened to violating people's constitutional rights? They may as well hold my hand when I piss or s*** and stick video cameras in my house. What I do outside of work is my personal business. If you post derogatory remarks about your boss on facebook and it's caught, then that's something else entirely.

 

People have more ways to protect privacy than they think with the privacy controls provided. Use them. I make my profile difficult to find, so I could easily say I have no facebook. I think 1/3 of people still don't have facebook.

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GravityMan

I believe several states have introduced bills recently that, if passed, would make it illegal for employers to ask candidates and employees for FB and other social networking passwords.

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Art_Critic
I make my profile difficult to find, so I could easily say I have no facebook. I think 1/3 of people still don't have facebook.

 

Something to think about.. lying in an interview and being caught would mean you didn't get the job..

 

When I check out prospective employees I can guarantee you that I always find their facebook page.. while you may think it is hard to find, it is easier than you might realize..

 

Of course we also never ask them if they have one so your point would never happen.

 

I think an employer who asks for a login and password to me is breaking the law..

It is against FB policy to give your password to anyone, so they would be asking you to break the law, what kind of a company would ask someone to do that is what you need to ask yourself.

 

I hope some regulation polices are installed that prevent employers from asking for logins and passwords...

 

Now.. what is in the public domain.. that is free game.. and people need to watch what they post on their FB..

If you post a comment to a public page.. say Home Depot's page, then your post is viewable by the entire world.

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Something to think about.. lying in an interview and being caught would mean you didn't get the job..

 

When I check out prospective employees I can guarantee you that I always find their facebook page.. while you may think it is hard to find, it is easier than you might realize..

 

There are security controls where you can easily remove your page from the search engine and make it so only friends of friends or just friends can find you. This is especially easy if you have a really common first and last name.

 

Now.. what is in the public domain.. that is free game.. and people need to watch what they post on their FB..

If you post a comment to a public page.. say Home Depot's page, then your post is viewable by the entire world.

 

This is true. If you post on another public page other than your own wall, anyone can view it.

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I generally agree with all Art's points, except in one area, I draw a fine distinction:

 

It is against FB policy to give your password to anyone, so they would be asking you to break the law, what kind of a company would ask someone to do that is what you need to ask yourself.

It's probably just a semantic point, but because something is against a Facebook policy does not inherently make it against the law. Now, separately there are some cyber-crime laws that make it illegal to access someone else's computer account, etc., which may be applicable in this case, but those are separate things. It may be "A and B" but it's not "A therefore B". Breaking a FB "terms of service" policy (or a LoveShack one, for that matter) doesn't automatically mean you have broken the law.

 

Having said that, I completely agree with Art's points. If the employer is concerned about any publicly available information that might cast me in a bad light, then they have every right to inspect whatever publicly available information is out there. That doesn't mean they have a right to go behind locked doors (either literal or metaphorical) and log in to my Facebook to see my private family pictures, any more than they could walk into my house and read my diary and unpublished manuscripts, look at the pictures on my refrigerator, or anything like that.

 

If the concern truly is about publicly available information, then by definition they already have the ability to access that. (So I happen to think that rationale is a disingenuous non-starter, and a smokescreen...)

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Almond_Joy

When I check out prospective employees I can guarantee you that I always find their facebook page.. while you may think it is hard to find, it is easier than you might realize..

 

I want to talk to this classmate again, because that's the same thing he said. What's the point of the privacy filters when there are loopholes? That alarmed me. A background check isn't enough? Man....

 

It is against FB policy to give your password to anyone, so they would be asking you to break the law, what kind of a company would ask someone to do that is what you need to ask yourself.

 

Ha! I never thought of that. That would totally be my rebuttal, if asked for credentials. "FB policy clearly states that I'm not to give my credentials to anyone. you are asking me to violate that policy...." Awkward silence commences lol.

 

I doubt I'd get the job pulling that, but maybe they'd think twice about asking on the next interview lol.

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UpwardForward

I would think particularly the way the job market is today, an employer should be able to use any means to weed out or to reach the candidate they would prefer.

 

Publishing your info on internet sights, is just that: Publishing.

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I would think particularly the way the job market is today, an employer should be able to use any means to weed out or to reach the candidate they would prefer.

It is rather ironic that Freedom of Speech, which is near absolute in the US, is being policed like that.

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I want to talk to this classmate again, because that's the same thing he said. What's the point of the privacy filters when there are loopholes? That alarmed me. A background check isn't enough? Man....

You really need to go check out what happens when you look at the page of someone who has privacy filters set correctly.

 

If you have your privacy filters set so that you are "searchable", but that your content is only viewable "by Friends", then yes, of course, Art can find your page. And if you have it set that way, he can see your profile photo, too. But if you have all your other content restricted to "by Friends", then for example, when Art clicks on your "Photos" link, he will get a message that "Almond Joy only shares some information publicly" and will not be able to see your photos.

 

So yes, he will most likely be able to "find" your page, but how much of the content he can access is up to you in your settings.

 

Now, you can also set your profile to be "not searchable", and hide yourself even further. In this case, if the employer happens to be a friend of one of your friends, then he may still be able to find you in that person's "Friends List" and get to your main page, but again, how much of your content he can see will still be restricted by your security settings.

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It is rather ironic that Freedom of Speech' date=' which is near absolute in the US, is being policed like that.[/quote']

 

I wouldn't call it policing.

 

I would say an employer should be able to view your publication(s), when gathering info to make a candidate selection.

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Almond_Joy
You really need to go check out what happens when you look at the page of someone who has privacy filters set correctly.

 

If you have your privacy filters set so that you are "searchable", but that your content is only viewable "by Friends", then yes, of course, Art can find your page. And if you have it set that way, he can see your profile photo, too. But if you have all your other content restricted to "by Friends", then for example, when Art clicks on your "Photos" link, he will get a message that "Almond Joy only shares some information publicly" and will not be able to see your photos.

 

So yes, he will most likely be able to "find" your page, but how much of the content he can access is up to you in your settings.

 

Now, you can also set your profile to be "not searchable", and hide yourself even further. In this case, if the employer happens to be a friend of one of your friends, then he may still be able to find you in that person's "Friends List" and get to your main page, but again, how much of your content he can see will still be restricted by your security settings.

 

That's what I've done. If you google my legal name with the term facebook, a link will show up in the Google search results. But when you click on the link and it takes you to FB, my profile doesn't come up in FB's search results.

 

I don't know if that happens if another user searches for me by name while logged into facebook though - I'd assume the same thing.....

 

And, as you explained, I've set everything in my profile to be veiwable by friends only. The only thing a person can see publicly is my cover photo, profile photo, networks, and the URL for my profile page. I even tried to get those latter two set to private, but I haven't found that filter yet lol.

 

I didn't spell all that out in class of course, but I think the classmate was saying that even with all those filters in place, he could still find my profile. That bothers me A LOT. I don't have anything inappropriate to hide, I just value my privacy.

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I would think particularly the way the job market is today, an employer should be able to use any means to weed out or to reach the candidate they would prefer.

They still have every means available to them to view your publicly published information; I don't think anyone is arguing they shouldn't have that. What we are talking about is an employer requiring you to turn over your login name and password, so they can log in to your Facebook as you, to look at the internals of your site. Are you saying you believe they should be allowed to do this ("any means" you said...).

 

Publishing your info on internet sights, is just that: Publishing.

If I let 3 friends read my diary, I don't consider that published, and I don't think my employer can require me to allow them to read it. If I restrict a posting or a picture on Facebook to those 3 friends, I don't think my employer can require me to allow them to fraudulently log in as me to view it.

 

I'll reiterate that I am perfectly fine with them viewing anything about me that is publicly available (i.e. "published"). My problem is with being required to hand over a private password, in violation of my terms of service agreement (and arguably, some cyber-crime laws...)

 

It is rather ironic that Freedom of Speech' date=' which is near absolute in the US, is being policed like that.[/quote']

I'm not sure I get how this is a freedom of speech issue - can you clarify? Who is restricting anyone's freedom of speech?

 

If you consider this a "privacy" issue, which often hinges on "a reasonable expectation of privacy" then I'm with you...

 

Now, if you're going to make the argument that "this chills free speech", then I would note that "freedom of speech" does not inherently guarantee "freedom from consequences" from any entity other than my government. If I publicly post that I get drunk at work and those a**holes don't realize how I'm stealing office supplies and insulting and losing customers all the time, then that information is fair game and I deserve to suffer the consequences within my place of employment.

 

On the other hand, if I publicly post that I'm gay, then I am protected from "consequences" by other laws relating to discrimination....

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I didn't spell all that out in class of course, but I think the classmate was saying that even with all those filters in place, he could still find my profile. That bothers me A LOT. I don't have anything inappropriate to hide, I just value my privacy.

I agree - I value my privacy as well, and like you, it's not because I have anything to hide, but it is based on the principle that privacy is one of the fundamental limits placed on the power of our government (here in the US), and therefore a foundation of our society.

 

If your classmate is a Facebook friend, then he can't comment on what an outsider can or can't access (or more accurately: he can't prove it to you, because he's already an insider...) I wouldn't get too bothered until you can confirm (or disprove) his assertions. It's all well and good for him to boast "oh, I can still get to your profile" but you would be better off proving it for yourself (or make him put up or shut up...)

 

Not that I would EVER suggest doing something against the terms of service to which you agreed, but in a strictly theoretical sense - just as a fascinating thought-experiment - wouldn't it be possible to set up a second "sock-puppet" Facebook account that is not a friend of your main account? This would (in theory) let you do your own experiment and resolve for yourself what of your main account is visible to the outside world.

 

Say you had kids (like I do) and you wanted to be able to see what was viewable from "outsiders." This would (theoretically) be a way to do that - not that I would, of course...

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Lostinlife4now

And another thought....I always think after about a subject and want to add something else....Why do I do that?

 

Oh well....

 

If a boss wanted to look at my facebook page.....let him....and what he will see is a group of wonderful family and friends who are all there for me at any time I am in need.... or how much I love them and they love me... What? photos of the some of the great, silly, happy, loving, caring..no so happy events in my life? I have discovered some really informative information thru other people and social media. Sometimes maybe it's all not bad....

 

I WOULD want an employee working for me who was thought of lovingly by a bunch of their peers and family!

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And another thought....I always think after about a subject and want to add something else....Why do I do that?

 

Oh well....

 

If a boss wanted to look at my facebook page.....let him....and what he will see is a group of wonderful family and friends who are all there for me at any time I am in need.... or how much I love them and they love me... What? photos of the some of the great, silly, happy, loving, caring..no so happy events in my life? I have discovered some really informative information thru other people and social media. Sometimes maybe it's all not bad....

 

I WOULD want an employee working for me who was thought of lovingly by a bunch of their peers and family!

Fair enough, and it's completely appropriate for you to choose to offer to show your Facebook - or any other portfolio that you wish to present - to a prospective employer.

 

The question here is whether an employer should be allowed to compel any prospective employee to "turn over the keys" for an involuntary inspection of this sort.

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They still have every means available to them to view your publicly published information; I don't think anyone is arguing they shouldn't have that. What we are talking about is an employer requiring you to turn over your login name and password, so they can log in to your Facebook as you, to look at the internals of your site. Are you saying you believe they should be allowed to do this ("any means" you said...).

 

 

If I let 3 friends read my diary, I don't consider that published, and I don't think my employer can require me to allow them to read it. If I restrict a posting or a picture on Facebook to those 3 friends, I don't think my employer can require me to allow them to fraudulently log in as me to view it.

 

I'll reiterate that I am perfectly fine with them viewing anything about me that is publicly available (i.e. "published"). My problem is with being required to hand over a private password, in violation of my terms of service agreement (and arguably, some cyber-crime laws...)

 

 

I don't consider your diary the same as publishing on FB or the internet.

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Lostinlife4now
Fair enough, and it's completely appropriate for you to choose to offer to show your Facebook - or any other portfolio that you wish to present - to a prospective employer.

 

The question here is whether an employer should be allowed to compel any prospective employee to "turn over the keys" for an involuntary inspection of this sort.

 

 

Thanks Trimmer for clarifying!

 

Compel....NOPE....Don't compel me to do anything...I then do the opposite!

 

If I decide to OFFER it...then so be it....

 

But don't make it a prerequisite for offering me the job. Am I making sense?

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Perhaps viewing your FB, is a means for the employer to get further depth into one's character - i.e. public service, law enforcement, intelligence, security positions?

 

Isn't an employer's screening supposed to 'go w the territory'. Employer get's to choose. If candidate doesn't agree: Brush the dust off your feet, and go to the next interview. :)

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Almond_Joy
I agree - I value my privacy as well, and like you, it's not because I have anything to hide, but it is based on the principle that privacy is one of the fundamental limits placed on the power of our government (here in the US), and therefore a foundation of our society.

 

If your classmate is a Facebook friend, then he can't comment on what an outsider can or can't access (or more accurately: he can't prove it to you, because he's already an insider...) I wouldn't get too bothered until you can confirm (or disprove) his assertions. It's all well and good for him to boast "oh, I can still get to your profile" but you would be better off proving it for yourself (or make him put up or shut up...)

 

Not that I would EVER suggest doing something against the terms of service to which you agreed, but in a strictly theoretical sense - just as a fascinating thought-experiment - wouldn't it be possible to set up a second "sock-puppet" Facebook account that is not a friend of your main account? This would (in theory) let you do your own experiment and resolve for yourself what of your main account is visible to the outside world.

 

Say you had kids (like I do) and you wanted to be able to see what was viewable from "outsiders." This would (theoretically) be a way to do that - not that I would, of course...

 

Totally didn't think of that. Thanks!

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