Does 9-5 exist anymore?

[Mr Scorpio]

I've never worked anything other than meager low-paying jobs, but in a few years I should be graduating from lawschool. Along with the terror of trying to find a job to pay back the loans is the spectre of working 50-70 hours a week for as long as I can until I'm dead.

 

This made me think that perhaps I should try to use the degree in a non-traditional setting, as it can be versatile if you have the right background (which I don't but humor me).

 

But then, I realized that pretty much everyone I know -- from factory workers to small business owners to machine operators to short-order cooks -- works somewhere on the order of 50-70 hours a week.

 

Is this normal? In this economy? Should I just be grateful for anything I can possibly get, even if it diminishes my ability to potentially have a family someday? Does anyone out there have a decent paying career that doesn't require them to shatter 9-5?

[Els]

Could be your location. I'm not sure about the current job climate in the USA, but people in Scandinavian countries, for example, generally don't work that long hours. I'm in an Oceanic country and the people here generally go back at 4pm everyday. It's all in the work culture, IMO.

[zengirl]

In America, long hours seem the norm. Hubby works a straight 9-5 most days, but he does work 12 hour days a few weeks a year to complete projects. He also banks uber extra vacation time on those weeks for the extra hours (i.e. he gets every hour back in vacation time -- actually he gets it back TWICE because his company is nice and he has a few years in, but he's a programmer with all kinds of fancy skills not many people have).

 

I run a nonprofit and report to a board of directors. I have an office I see a few times a week and I'm on site many afternoons for a few hours at a time. I'm fundraising constantly. I work weird hours. Sometimes I run over 40 in a week, sometimes under. There are some 60 hour weeks, but also some 30 ones, and I get plenty of vacation as well. I make far less money than hubby, but we both make a good living.

 

I know some lawyers who work a normal workweek (or less) but they make less money. Probably depends on what kind of law you're set up to do. It seems reasonable, if you want to pay back massive loans and launch a career, to expect at least a few years of 50-70 hour weeks in the U.S. these days in many fields, including law. But forever? That seems extreme. Choices and other options may come later.

[Mr Scorpio]

I should probably PM you this question ZG, but what really goes into running a non-profit? How does one even get involved in non-profits? I ask because the way I see it I have three options: 1) hope and pray that some firm will hire me (unlikely) 2) start my own practice (undesirable) 3) try to use my degree in a non-traditional setting, of which non-profits are a part.

 

I live in a somewhat large city, so I assume there are plenty of non-profits around. I just have no understanding of how they work, or how I could get exposed to some now when I still have 3 years until I take the bar.

[Star Gazer]

In the private sector, 9-5 is pretty much unheard of. That's not even a 40-hour workweek given that you have a lunch break.

[Stupid Girl]

I work 9-5ish, although 35 hours a week, in the private sector (finance), and I think my pay is quite decent ($50k+), especially considering I'm only in my mid-20s. So yes, definitely possible and heard of

[zengirl]

I PMed you with some info -- not sure if it'll help you.

 

At any rate, the people I know who work 9-5 (or 8:30-5 or whatever for a lunch break) are mostly programmers or engineers. I know a few graphic designers who have nice hours as well, but they usually do side work. I know some journalists who generally have decent hours, but they work late on occasions. When I was a teacher, I had decent out-times, but not all teachers do (it really depends how lucky you get and how efficient you are). Some stay really late.

 

I don't know a lot of people whose firms MANDATE they stay late but I know a lot who do. Mostly, they stay late or work at home to get things done. However, I understand the culture of law firms and billable hours makes that different (I was in advertising where this was partially true, though I made most of my bonuses on media %s), and the amount of time is actually important.

[veggirl]

Govt jobs are usually pretty much 40 hrs, at least among the people I know who work for the city / state / county govt, including 2 who are pretty upper management.

[Star Gazer]

I work 9-5ish, although 35 hours a week, in the private sector (finance), and I think my pay is quite decent ($50k+), especially considering I'm only in my mid-20s. So yes, definitely possible and heard of

 

$30+/hour working 9-5, less than 40 hours a week, in finance, in your mid-20's?

 

You're a diamond in the rough! Unheard of amongst my friends in finance.

[EasyHeart]

40 hours a week is pretty much unheard of in private law practice. Unless you're working part-time. . . .

 

Companies are pushing their employees harder since the economy tanked; that always happens when we're in a recession. But generally (bigger) companies have set hours they expect you to work and most people clear out whenever quittin' time rolls around. I've heard similar stories from people who made the switch from private practice to inhouse practice: they thought they were showing diligence by working late, but when reviews came around they were criticized because they "couldn't get their work done during business hours."

 

It just shows that you can never win!

[turnera]

I work straight 9-5 (well, 7-4 with lunch hour), and have done so for all my career. Law degrees will get you a lot of nontraditional jobs, if you just look for them. For example, you could look up things like Americorps and go out and help people with your degree and not be part of the rat race. You could start your own firm on the side while you work something else, to pay off the loans, and then give up the side job. Once you have your own firm, you can make any hours you want. Be creative.

[Stupid Girl]

$30+/hour working 9-5, less than 40 hours a week, in finance, in your mid-20's?

 

You're a diamond in the rough! Unheard of amongst my friends in finance.

Well thank you, although my pay is slightly under $30/hr, haha! I started at entry level basically straight out of school making just mid-$30s, but I've worked really hard (getting involved in special projects, taking post-grad night school) and moved up pretty quickly. Either that or somebody somewhere high up really likes me!

[Mr Scorpio]

I work 9-5ish, although 35 hours a week, in the private sector (finance), and I think my pay is quite decent ($50k+), especially considering I'm only in my mid-20s. So yes, definitely possible and heard of

 

That much? In your mid-20s? I think you need a new screen-name!

[Mr Scorpio]

You could start your own firm on the side while you work something else, to pay off the loans, and then give up the side job. Once you have your own firm, you can make any hours you want. Be creative.

 

This is where I'm starting to lean. Call me irresponsible, but I think I'd be happier making 40k from law and teaching guitar and having the ability to work 12-8, followed by hanging out wth friends/hitting the bars until 1am -- assuming such a thing is possible -- than meeting someone else's billable hour quota and working 8-6 in the rat race in exchange for 50-60k.

[Els]

Um, 8-4 is the exact same number of hours as 9-5. What, do you think people who work 8-4 don't get lunch?

 

I don't know about the USA, but places that I've lived in, lunch hour is considered part of one's working hours. Just as how you get paid for medical leave up to a certain point.

[writergal]

Even teachers work 8 hours a day. Depending on which school district, a teacher's day could start at 7 a.m. and end at 3 p.m., or start at 9 a.m. and end at 5 p.m. AND with only a 15 minute lunchbreak at most schools, at least in my city. (Don't get me started on that b.s.)

 

I think the US has cornered the 8 hour work day tradition. My cousin just got a job in Hawaii where she works 3 days a week, 12 hours each day, so that's 36 hours at $50/hr because she's a psychiatric nurse for a children's hospital.

 

I think the Europeans have it made; 6 weeks of vacation and short work days. They even have longer maternity leave for pregnant women and the husbands too than here in the US. Not to mention job security is better there than here.

[Els]

The minimum for most jobs is 9-6 or 8-4...

 

Not what you said here, eh?

 

I'm curious why you sound so strangely proud and defensive of the USA work culture. IMO working 8-4 isn't a 'joke', it's a nice balance between work and life, and I respect countries and corporate environments that offer that. Interestingly enough, despite the 'productivity' of the work culture that you defend, those countries also have less national debt and currently more promising economies than the USA does... but that's a topic for another thread.

[zengirl]

Lunch hour, in the U.S., is not typically considered part of the work day, Elswyth. That is different elsewhere.

 

Teachers work kind of differing hours, IME. With grading, it's easily over 8 hours a day. Personally, I never had to be on-site 8 hours every day when I was a classroom teacher, though I often was and many teachers are. I probably worked 50 hours a week though. And, yes the max of 25 minutes for lunch is pretty grueling. I ate lunch on my planning most days, though, unless I had a meeting, and planned during my lunch and at night.

[Els]

Yup, I found that out earlier in the thread, ZG. My response to that poster was because the typo in her first post bemused me, and her next reaction dismissing the 8-4 workday as being 'a joke' bemused me further.

[writergal]

Lunch hour, in the U.S., is not typically considered part of the work day, Elswyth. That is different elsewhere.

 

Teachers work kind of differing hours, IME. With grading, it's easily over 8 hours a day. Personally, I never had to be on-site 8 hours every day when I was a classroom teacher, though I often was and many teachers are. I probably worked 50 hours a week though. And, yes the max of 25 minutes for lunch is pretty grueling. I ate lunch on my planning most days, though, unless I had a meeting, and planned during my lunch and at night.

 

Grading and prep time outside school hours, yeah I agree. So as a teacher I'm expected to suffer hypoglycemia while teaching so the district/state can save money. There's no justification for cutting a teacher's lunch hour esp. for the long work week hours as you pointed out. How many years were you a classroom teacher? I'm trying to get there but I'm 41 so it may be a short career for that reason.

[Negative Nancy]

No, 9-5 sadly doesn't exist anymore. My hours are Monday - Thursday 8-5 (or 7.30-4.30, or 8.30 - 5.30, or 9-6 - its flexible) and Fri 8-12.

 

A 38 hour week, 6 weeks of paid vacation and 6 weeks paid sick leave plus full health insurance really is a dying breed in the professional world nowadays.

 

I think the Europeans have it made; 6 weeks of vacation and short work days. They even have longer maternity leave for pregnant women and the husbands too than here in the US. Not to mention job security is better there than here.

 

Edited April 20, 2012 by Negative Nancy

[zengirl]

Grading and prep time outside school hours, yeah I agree. So as a teacher I'm expected to suffer hypoglycemia while teaching so the district/state can save money. There's no justification for cutting a teacher's lunch hour esp. for the long work week hours as you pointed out. How many years were you a classroom teacher? I'm trying to get there but I'm 41 so it may be a short career for that reason.

 

In the U.S., only one full year recently and another partial year earlier. In Asia, 2 additional years.

[writergal]

No, 9-5 sadly doesn't exist anymore. My hours are Monday - Thursday 8-5 (or 7.30-4.30, or 8.30 - 5.30, or 9-6 - its flexible) and Fri 8-12.

 

A 38 hour week, 6 weeks of paid vacation and 6 weeks paid sick leave plus full health insurance really is a dying breed in the professional world nowadays.

 

 

 

 

I need to move to the UK. But that's next to impossible because 1) I need to find a business to sponsor me (even though I have duel citizenship with Ireland) and 2) if not business, then I'd have to enroll in higher education (and that's not going to happen because I can barely stand to finish my current grad program here). So that leaves 3) find a UK boyfriend here who wants to move back or 4) win the lottery.

[writergal]

In the U.S., only one full year recently and another partial year earlier. In Asia, 2 additional years.

 

I taught in southern Asia at a university. It was fun but the pay was awful and I wouldn't have been able to travel off that salary. But you're not teaching anymore? My background is language arts.

Edited April 21, 2012 by writergal

[carhill]

The last time I worked 9-5 (actually 8-5 with an hour lunch) was as a machinist back in 1983. I left that ordered world at the age of 25 when starting my own business and have never worked regular hours since. During the season you might find me working 9-5, except 9pm-5am, keeping the harvest equipment going for customers. Currently I'm working 9am to about 7pm every day rehabbing a house for rent. Not exactly where I wanted to be at 52 but divorce and the current economy will do that to one.

 

I would say, for the subset of friends who are life-long employees, 9-5 in some form exists, perhaps a bit longer hours for some. For we business owners and self-employed professionals, fuggetabout it. When there's one car left in the parking lot when the sun is going down, it's rarely (never in my experience) an employee. If it is, they won't be an employee for long, rather a competitor or the new boss.

 

With technology and easy access to international markets, one can work anywhere in the world in person or remotely and essentially work around the clock until dropping dead. I wouldn't recommend that, but it does happen. There's a balance somewhere for each of us. I'd say do what works for you.