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Profiling? Discrimination? What can I do?


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For the last few weeks I've been working part-time as a receptionist/personal recruiter in a small office for a large marketing firm. My 'boss' is a district manager (worked his way up from being a sales rep) and opened the office a couple of months ago.

 

Recently when I was working in his office, I noticed my application at the top of a pile of papers on the floor. I got a closer look and at the top it said "Arabian?"

 

I've befriended 3 of the other receptionists and last night we were out at a sports bar. One of them mentioned she had found a receptionist application and at the top the DM had written "Asian". Then I said, "WTF, really?!" and confided what I saw on my own application.

 

Another thing, too. One of the receptionists who was hired at the same time as me--she's white--was getting full-time hours from the beginning. I was hired part-time, though I had said on the application I was open to both. She was also first to get her own account on the corporate website to keep track of stats. I didn't get mine until more than a week later. All the white receptionists have been working pretty much full-time hours, and the non-whites were part-time like me, or they were only there for a day or two and either quit or were let go.

 

FTR, this guy is 22, and white, your typical all-American kid. I think he's arrogant from so many people telling him he's doing such a great job, having been promoted and having his own office and the power to hire and fire people, that he thinks he can get away with this sort of stuff right out in the open. There is absolutely no reasonable justification for writing someone's presumed race/ethnic background at the top of their application for employment. And leaving it out for others to see is stupid.

 

I want to bring him down a couple of levels, but I don't know if this is enough. And I don't know exactly what I should do. Should I gather the evidence and talk to him myself? I don't really care if my own job ends up on the line because of this. I do care if others' would be, though.

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IfWishesWereHorses

Is it possible that he was trying to put a name with a face, after an interview?

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Is it possible that he was trying to put a name with a face, after an interview?

 

I don't think that's a good excuse. There are plenty of other ways to put a name to a face without having to mention race. There's evidence of more than one instance of this. He should know better, but he's too full of himself not to.

 

The other day when I was there, one of the receptionists was talking to the DM near me about some people tending to be rude on the phone. I overheard her mention 'blacks' (she meant to keep it to a whisper) and then I heard him say, "And to be honest they don't really do as well here (as sales reps)." Also, when he was in the outer office doing interviews she told me the DM had come up to her and asked her if she was reading from the script. She said yeah and then the DM said, "Good, because tigressA is back there and I overheard her saying what-the-heck-ever..." I had been improvising a little bit.

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I want to bring him down a couple of levels, but I don't know if this is enough. And I don't know exactly what I should do. Should I gather the evidence and talk to him myself? I don't really care if my own job ends up on the line because of this. I do care if others' would be, though.

 

Your job will be on the line.

 

Why do you want to bring someone down a few levels that is over your head ?

Didn't you just start working there ?

Honestly is seems a bit like trouble making to me and those types of people get labeled and whisked away pretty quickly.

 

However...

 

If you have been discriminated against then you are right to take action.

Can you tell me where the discrimination happened and what didn't transpire becuase of it ?

 

I see what he did as rather tasteless and downright rude but to me (I'm not a lawyer however) I see going forward as a mistake since you did get the job.

 

An employer cannot discriminate based on Race.. but just because he wrote it down doesn't mean he did discriminate based on race.. that might be no different than him actually seeing your face IRL and saying to himself "Asian".

 

Does he treat you differently becuase of your race and do you think he is racist ?

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Is it possible that he was trying to put a name with a face, after an interview?

 

That's exactly what I was thinking. There's no other reason to write down someone's race on an application after you've met/interview them other than to keep them straight.

 

I wrote "tall guy" on one resume, and "crazy curly hair" on another. If I had race to differentiate between all the applicants (unfortunately, I didn't - odd) I would have put that.

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I don't think that's a good excuse. There are plenty of other ways to put a name to a face without having to mention race. There's evidence of more than one instance of this. He should know better, but he's too full of himself not to.

 

The other day when I was there, one of the receptionists was talking to the DM near me about some people tending to be rude on the phone. I overheard her mention 'blacks' (she meant to keep it to a whisper) and then I heard him say, "And to be honest they don't really do as well here (as sales reps)." Also, when he was in the outer office doing interviews she told me the DM had come up to her and asked her if she was reading from the script. She said yeah and then the DM said, "Good, because tigressA is back there and I overheard her saying what-the-heck-ever..." I had been improvising a little bit.

 

What business/industry are you in? It sounds to me like he was speaking factually. I know that one of my BFFs, who's in the financial services industry as a recruiter/manager, has a hard time even finding blacks who want to work for the company, because, in her observation, they honestly don't do as well because people on the outside of the company (customers/clients) are less persuaded to invest with them than a nerdy white guy. She's not racist, she's not discriminating, she's just looking at numbers.

 

As for you not following the script, you failing to follow instructions and him picking up on that by asking someone else if they were following the script has nothing to do with your race. You were going off script, and he wants you on-script, period.

 

Did he hire you, or participate in the hiring process?

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Yes, he did hire me. It's a marketing firm with offices across the country, and they market one specific line of products. Sales reps are hired to sell the product line. Receptionists act as recruiters as well, calling recommended people from lists of current sales reps to come in for interviews.

 

He wasn't 'looking at the numbers' when he made that comment. The other receptionist had mentioned how more black people 'sounded rude' on the phone, and that was when he made that comment. That's not 'looking at the numbers'. That's insinuating blacks are more likely to have poor attitudes about the work.

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Yes, he did hire me.

 

From a legal standpoint, it's very hard to establish race discrimination by the very same person who hired you.

 

As for how you talk, you've admitted that you went off script, and his question was whether you went off script, not that you sounded rude. And it was the other receptionist that said blacks sound rude. Not your boss.

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From a legal standpoint, it's very hard to establish race discrimination by the very same person who hired you.

 

As for how you talk, you've admitted that you went off script, and his question was whether you went off script, not that you sounded rude. And it was the other receptionist that said blacks sound rude. Not your boss.

 

Well, yeah, but in response to that comment he said that they (as in the black sales reps--those who have been hired) tend to not do so well there anyway. The way he said it was NOT in any way just 'looking at the numbers' like you suggested. I bet he didn't even think of saying that sort of thing in my presence because he thinks I'm "Arabian". :rolleyes:

 

This is the whole story: The one receptionist and I were talking about some people who were really rude on the phone when the DM came up and entered the conversation. That was when the receptionist lowered her voice and said to the DM that some 'black people' tend to be more likely to be rude on the phone when called. The DM said that honestly, they don't tend to do so well here either. It makes no sense for him to be 'looking at the numbers' like you suggested when making that comment, as it was in response to black people being rude. He insinuated that blacks tend to have poorer attitudes toward working there and therefore that's why they don't do well.

 

I don't resent him for criticizing my work, but he just comes off so...smarmy. It's a feeling in my gut. And there's a strong possibility that he is at least somewhat racist. He'll hire minorities like me, but in the end gives them short shrift in comparison to the whites. I really wonder if I would've gotten the job if I said I was only available full-time on the application.

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pureinheart

Hey T,

 

My advice would be to shine it on gf...I did what I'm about to tell you more times than I care to think of...

 

Keep your focus on your job, nothing more, nothing less. There is injustice everywhere. Learn everything you can and stay focused. If you allow yourself to get caught up in this, that and the other thing, then you will loose out on much knowledge filling your mind with stuff that in the long run you may not have control over.

 

Good luck and walk in power, wisdom and knowledge!

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bentnotbroken

While I am don't mind calling bosses or anyone on their racist behaviors, I don't think you have enough proof of anything. If you have just been hired. Wait it out, keep your eyes open and your mouth shut(don't tell anyone else what you know until you know enough). I believe what you say is true in a lot of places, especially in certain areas.

 

I respect the fact you are willing to fight for not just yourself but others. That says a lot about where your heart and head are. But be safe until you have some more info.

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While I am don't mind calling bosses or anyone on their racist behaviors, I don't think you have enough proof of anything. If you have just been hired. Wait it out, keep your eyes open and your mouth shut(don't tell anyone else what you know until you know enough). I believe what you say is true in a lot of places, especially in certain areas.

 

I respect the fact you are willing to fight for not just yourself but others. That says a lot about where your heart and head are. But be safe until you have some more info.

 

Thanks, BNB. :) I'll do that. I have only been there a few weeks. You're right about 'certain areas'--the area the office is in is very white-bread and upper-middle-class, on the outskirts of a city.

 

Like I said, I think he's really arrogant because he's had people talking him up so much, so as a result he thinks he can get away with these things. This past week, he was late to the office. I was waiting in the parking lot for 20 minutes and no one else was there. I called him twice, turned out his phone was dead. When he finally came it was clear he was hungover. He shortened our shift for the day, took off and didn't come back. And when he criticized my work yesterday, he first said it to someone other than me. If you have a problem with me, say it to ME first, not someone else first. Even the receptionist who the DM criticized me to was like "WTF, why bother telling me that, tell her that!"

 

This kid may be smart in some ways, but he has a lot to learn when it comes to being professional. I don't even really take him seriously because I'm 2-3 years older than he is. I don't think anyone else does, either. Thinking about it, I don't want to sue him or anything like that, really. I want to shove a slice or two of humble pie down his throat at least.

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because, in her observation, they honestly don't do as well because people on the outside of the company (customers/clients) are less persuaded to invest with them than a nerdy white guy. She's not racist, she's not discriminating, she's just looking at numbers.

/QUOTE]

 

So therefore this friend of yours hires the white people over the black, because the numbers tell her they do better? That is discrimination, and "the numbers" aren't ever going to change if the black people are not hired in the first place.

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When I was younger, I used to be one of those mouthy and troublemaking types. After I lost too many jobs, I learned that even if I am right, it doesn't mean I have to say so. Bosses hate new people who draw attention to themselves, talk too much and challenge everything.

 

The receptionist and your boss have had certain experiences with black people, which has formed their opinions. Blacks may not do well at your job for many reasons, other than race. In my experience, black people tend to be more forthright about disliking a person.

 

Wow, nice assumption of me right there. Thanks. :)

 

And it's not MY job that blacks supposedly don't do well in, according to the DM--it's the sales rep position. I'm a receptionist.

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Employees that are part of a minority are good for a company so I don't know why he'd be screening that way.

 

Now.. you said that on your application you put open to part and full time . Have you considered that race had nothing to do with your hours and that the other girl simply only wanted full time..?

 

Now, calling him a "typical all-American kid" that I find kind of discriminatory.. hehe

 

Or maybe you're right and he is hiring mainly Caucasian girls. I'd hang in there and accumulate proofs.

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I put together a long, thoughtful response, and poof. LS ate it. Note, this response isn't as good but here goes.

 

What I wanted to say is that, I don't know that there was blatant discrimination displayed that could indicate the guy was racist towards you. I know it's gotta piss you off, though, hearing his stereotypes. But they are out there, everywhere. And all of us have prejudices. I wouldn't use this job as a platform to right the injustices. Slowly, things improve. Your goal in life should be to be happy, and get the most out of it.

 

I think that the only thing you can do to fight his stereotype is to prove him wrong. Firstly, it's never a good idea to start challenging things as a new employee. You're unproven and inexperienced in the company. Your value is low. It comes across as negative and like you're not a team player. I see a lot of young women doing this. Guys tend to challenge a lot less. Yes, this is another prejudice, based on my experience. This doesn't mean I don't hire women. I just know what I'm in for.

 

If, however, you learn the ropes, take constructive criticism and improve, demonstrate yourself to be a solid employee and team player, you earn much more value. You earn the trust of those who hire you. They know that your'e there to do a good job. Your ability to get people to stop considering the stereotype and consider you as an individual increases. It also diminishes the expectation of the stereotype.

 

I think it would be a waste of time and energy to try to bring this guy down to size. It's also a negative past time. I think a better solution all around would be to work your way up, and that requires hard work, patience, and a thick skin. But people will respect you more for that.

 

Real life isn't like Disney teaches us. Life is unfair. It can be a struggle. But if you focus more on the positive and what you can achieve, you can realize those goals and it's so much more rewarding.

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So therefore this friend of yours hires the white people over the black, because the numbers tell her they do better? That is discrimination, and "the numbers" aren't ever going to change if the black people are not hired in the first place.

 

Wrong. She doesn't choose whites over blacks. She doesn't even have any blacks to choose from: they don't even apply for the position, or after learning what the job involves in the interview process, self-eliminate by deciding not to pursue the job/turn down the offer.

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I put together a long, thoughtful response, and poof. LS ate it. Note, this response isn't as good but here goes.

 

What I wanted to say is that, I don't know that there was blatant discrimination displayed that could indicate the guy was racist towards you. I know it's gotta piss you off, though, hearing his stereotypes. But they are out there, everywhere. And all of us have prejudices. I wouldn't use this job as a platform to right the injustices. Slowly, things improve. Your goal in life should be to be happy, and get the most out of it.

 

I think that the only thing you can do to fight his stereotype is to prove him wrong. Firstly, it's never a good idea to start challenging things as a new employee. You're unproven and inexperienced in the company. Your value is low. It comes across as negative and like you're not a team player. I see a lot of young women doing this. Guys tend to challenge a lot less. Yes, this is another prejudice, based on my experience. This doesn't mean I don't hire women. I just know what I'm in for.

 

If, however, you learn the ropes, take constructive criticism and improve, demonstrate yourself to be a solid employee and team player, you earn much more value. You earn the trust of those who hire you. They know that your'e there to do a good job. Your ability to get people to stop considering the stereotype and consider you as an individual increases. It also diminishes the expectation of the stereotype.

 

I think it would be a waste of time and energy to try to bring this guy down to size. It's also a negative past time. I think a better solution all around would be to work your way up, and that requires hard work, patience, and a thick skin. But people will respect you more for that.

 

Real life isn't like Disney teaches us. Life is unfair. It can be a struggle. But if you focus more on the positive and what you can achieve, you can realize those goals and it's so much more rewarding.

 

Just to modify that, I actually have a great deal of respect for people who do challenge the 'system', or unfair practices, directly. I'm not necessarily arguing that it is the right thing to do for TigressA in this particular case. Lonely's case however comes to mind - nearly all posters advised him not to take any action, but he still went ahead and successfully managed to hold the person somewhat accountable. An important difference, though, is that Lonely had clear accountability structures to activate, which TigressA probably doesn't. Working your way up within whatever field you are in in certainly a very admirable thing to do, which most people will be respected for, but it's potentially a quite different kind of activity than taking on injustice head on.

 

I also really don't think that this thread has anything to do with Disney or not Disney. TigressA strikes me as a person who is very mature for her age, and according to previous posting history has been through a fair amount of crap due to her mixed race. I see nothing in her OP which indicates that life should be all wabbly bubbly perfect without any struggles. She is, however, reacting to a practice in her work place which I think it is very legitimate to have reactions towards.

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Just to modify that, I actually have a great deal of respect for people who do challenge the 'system', or unfair practices, directly. I'm not necessarily arguing that it is the right thing to do for TigressA in this particular case. Lonely's case however comes to mind - nearly all posters advised him not to take any action, but he still went ahead and successfully managed to hold the person somewhat accountable. An important difference, though, is that Lonely had clear accountability structures to activate, which TigressA probably doesn't. Working your way up within whatever field you are in in certainly a very admirable thing to do, which most people will be respected for, but it's potentially a quite different kind of activity than taking on injustice head on.

 

I also really don't think that this thread has anything to do with Disney or not Disney. TigressA strikes me as a person who is very mature for her age, and according to previous posting history has been through a fair amount of crap due to her mixed race. I see nothing in her OP which indicates that life should be all wabbly bubbly perfect without any struggles. She is, however, reacting to a practice in her work place which I think it is very legitimate to have reactions towards.

 

Thank you, Denise.

 

I'm not going to say anything now, and probably not anytime soon. Currently I'm keeping my head down, doing my job, since I don't think I have enough evidence. But when the time comes, I am going to challenge him.

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Syzygypassion

daphne I agree with alot of what you have said and the advice you have offered. However feel that the idea of simply "working your way up" slightly trivalises what it means to be discriminated against. Whilst hard work and producing results are valuable, managers have the power to create opportunites and ultimately decide who progresses. If the manager is racist then it is going to be difficult for discriminated races to progress. The OP has suggested that white people are being favoured (full-time hours/ longer contacts), if this is true then the managers discrimination is creating obvious barriers.

 

Discrimination can have a very big impact on how you progress within a job and can affect your chances of working your way up.

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However feel that the idea of simply "working your way up" slightly trivalises what it means to be discriminated against...

Discrimination can have a very big impact on how you progress within a job and can affect your chances of working your way up.

 

This is what I wanted to get at, but you just said it so much better.

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daphne I agree with alot of what you have said and the advice you have offered. However feel that the idea of simply "working your way up" slightly trivalises what it means to be discriminated against. Whilst hard work and producing results are valuable, managers have the power to create opportunites and ultimately decide who progresses. If the manager is racist then it is going to be difficult for discriminated races to progress. The OP has suggested that white people are being favoured (full-time hours/ longer contacts), if this is true then the managers discrimination is creating obvious barriers.

 

Discrimination can have a very big impact on how you progress within a job and can affect your chances of working your way up.

 

I was in no way trying to trivialize her experience or feelings. I was trying to make logical conclusions based on my personal experience. I feel they lead to a more pragmatic approach that I believe will bring her more success and happiness. And I don't know that she'll be happy fighting the system. But if that's what she chooses, she's gotta do what she feels is best. I do think, if she decides to go that route, becoming a valuable team player will give her far more clout. Either way, win win.

 

As a female, I fully understand how discrimination can affect your career, especially in a male dominated industry. Personally, I've found sexism to be far more accepted, and I have learned that beating my head against teh wall at injustices did not help me sleep at night. I don't feel heroic. I feel let down. I didn't win. Granted, I'm not sure I had the fortitude to give it a tough fight but I hate fighting. Things rarely end up like they do in movies. The bad guys do win. Every day and often. And I was hoping to impart a potentially more positive route for her own peace of mind.

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I'm exiting this job in less than 2 weeks (thank goodness) because I was hired FT somewhere else. I still want to say something to the DM as a parting shot of sorts, not even necessarily about my original post, but about his outrageous lack of professionalism in general.

 

The other day I was chatting with one of my coworkers and she said he called her at 8 A.M. on her day off (!) to ask her to run out and buy something for him that he needed for demonstrations for a training session. Of course, she didn't do it. And he also called her numerous times while she was on her vacation last week, like she was on the clock and obligated to help him or something. :rolleyes: There were a few times when he asked one or more of us to use our own cell phones to make recruiting calls. He hasn't even offered to reimburse us for any of these extra favors. He also fired another of my coworkers, and he used the line: "I'm not firing you, but I am."

 

I am dying to report this guy.

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SincereOnlineGuy

 

Now, calling him a "typical all-American kid" that I find kind of discriminatory.. hehe

 

 

Based on what, pray tell ??????????

 

 

 

The first thing to do before engaging in conversations about racism and discrimination, is look up the meanings of both.

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