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Profiling? Discrimination? What can I do?


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Old 20th July 2011, 10:00 PM   #16
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I put together a long, thoughtful response, and poof. LS ate it. Note, this response isn't as good but here goes.

What I wanted to say is that, I don't know that there was blatant discrimination displayed that could indicate the guy was racist towards you. I know it's gotta piss you off, though, hearing his stereotypes. But they are out there, everywhere. And all of us have prejudices. I wouldn't use this job as a platform to right the injustices. Slowly, things improve. Your goal in life should be to be happy, and get the most out of it.

I think that the only thing you can do to fight his stereotype is to prove him wrong. Firstly, it's never a good idea to start challenging things as a new employee. You're unproven and inexperienced in the company. Your value is low. It comes across as negative and like you're not a team player. I see a lot of young women doing this. Guys tend to challenge a lot less. Yes, this is another prejudice, based on my experience. This doesn't mean I don't hire women. I just know what I'm in for.

If, however, you learn the ropes, take constructive criticism and improve, demonstrate yourself to be a solid employee and team player, you earn much more value. You earn the trust of those who hire you. They know that your'e there to do a good job. Your ability to get people to stop considering the stereotype and consider you as an individual increases. It also diminishes the expectation of the stereotype.

I think it would be a waste of time and energy to try to bring this guy down to size. It's also a negative past time. I think a better solution all around would be to work your way up, and that requires hard work, patience, and a thick skin. But people will respect you more for that.

Real life isn't like Disney teaches us. Life is unfair. It can be a struggle. But if you focus more on the positive and what you can achieve, you can realize those goals and it's so much more rewarding.
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Old 21st July 2011, 12:41 PM   #17
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Great post, Daphne!!
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Old 21st July 2011, 12:44 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by green_tea View Post
So therefore this friend of yours hires the white people over the black, because the numbers tell her they do better? That is discrimination, and "the numbers" aren't ever going to change if the black people are not hired in the first place.
Wrong. She doesn't choose whites over blacks. She doesn't even have any blacks to choose from: they don't even apply for the position, or after learning what the job involves in the interview process, self-eliminate by deciding not to pursue the job/turn down the offer.
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Old 21st July 2011, 12:49 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by daphne View Post
I put together a long, thoughtful response, and poof. LS ate it. Note, this response isn't as good but here goes.

What I wanted to say is that, I don't know that there was blatant discrimination displayed that could indicate the guy was racist towards you. I know it's gotta piss you off, though, hearing his stereotypes. But they are out there, everywhere. And all of us have prejudices. I wouldn't use this job as a platform to right the injustices. Slowly, things improve. Your goal in life should be to be happy, and get the most out of it.

I think that the only thing you can do to fight his stereotype is to prove him wrong. Firstly, it's never a good idea to start challenging things as a new employee. You're unproven and inexperienced in the company. Your value is low. It comes across as negative and like you're not a team player. I see a lot of young women doing this. Guys tend to challenge a lot less. Yes, this is another prejudice, based on my experience. This doesn't mean I don't hire women. I just know what I'm in for.

If, however, you learn the ropes, take constructive criticism and improve, demonstrate yourself to be a solid employee and team player, you earn much more value. You earn the trust of those who hire you. They know that your'e there to do a good job. Your ability to get people to stop considering the stereotype and consider you as an individual increases. It also diminishes the expectation of the stereotype.

I think it would be a waste of time and energy to try to bring this guy down to size. It's also a negative past time. I think a better solution all around would be to work your way up, and that requires hard work, patience, and a thick skin. But people will respect you more for that.

Real life isn't like Disney teaches us. Life is unfair. It can be a struggle. But if you focus more on the positive and what you can achieve, you can realize those goals and it's so much more rewarding.
Just to modify that, I actually have a great deal of respect for people who do challenge the 'system', or unfair practices, directly. I'm not necessarily arguing that it is the right thing to do for TigressA in this particular case. Lonely's case however comes to mind - nearly all posters advised him not to take any action, but he still went ahead and successfully managed to hold the person somewhat accountable. An important difference, though, is that Lonely had clear accountability structures to activate, which TigressA probably doesn't. Working your way up within whatever field you are in in certainly a very admirable thing to do, which most people will be respected for, but it's potentially a quite different kind of activity than taking on injustice head on.

I also really don't think that this thread has anything to do with Disney or not Disney. TigressA strikes me as a person who is very mature for her age, and according to previous posting history has been through a fair amount of crap due to her mixed race. I see nothing in her OP which indicates that life should be all wabbly bubbly perfect without any struggles. She is, however, reacting to a practice in her work place which I think it is very legitimate to have reactions towards.
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Old 21st July 2011, 1:03 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by denise_xo View Post
Just to modify that, I actually have a great deal of respect for people who do challenge the 'system', or unfair practices, directly. I'm not necessarily arguing that it is the right thing to do for TigressA in this particular case. Lonely's case however comes to mind - nearly all posters advised him not to take any action, but he still went ahead and successfully managed to hold the person somewhat accountable. An important difference, though, is that Lonely had clear accountability structures to activate, which TigressA probably doesn't. Working your way up within whatever field you are in in certainly a very admirable thing to do, which most people will be respected for, but it's potentially a quite different kind of activity than taking on injustice head on.

I also really don't think that this thread has anything to do with Disney or not Disney. TigressA strikes me as a person who is very mature for her age, and according to previous posting history has been through a fair amount of crap due to her mixed race. I see nothing in her OP which indicates that life should be all wabbly bubbly perfect without any struggles. She is, however, reacting to a practice in her work place which I think it is very legitimate to have reactions towards.
Thank you, Denise.

I'm not going to say anything now, and probably not anytime soon. Currently I'm keeping my head down, doing my job, since I don't think I have enough evidence. But when the time comes, I am going to challenge him.
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Old 21st July 2011, 4:54 PM   #21
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daphne I agree with alot of what you have said and the advice you have offered. However feel that the idea of simply "working your way up" slightly trivalises what it means to be discriminated against. Whilst hard work and producing results are valuable, managers have the power to create opportunites and ultimately decide who progresses. If the manager is racist then it is going to be difficult for discriminated races to progress. The OP has suggested that white people are being favoured (full-time hours/ longer contacts), if this is true then the managers discrimination is creating obvious barriers.

Discrimination can have a very big impact on how you progress within a job and can affect your chances of working your way up.
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Old 21st July 2011, 4:58 PM   #22
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However feel that the idea of simply "working your way up" slightly trivalises what it means to be discriminated against...
Discrimination can have a very big impact on how you progress within a job and can affect your chances of working your way up.
This is what I wanted to get at, but you just said it so much better.
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Old 21st July 2011, 7:42 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Syzygypassion View Post
daphne I agree with alot of what you have said and the advice you have offered. However feel that the idea of simply "working your way up" slightly trivalises what it means to be discriminated against. Whilst hard work and producing results are valuable, managers have the power to create opportunites and ultimately decide who progresses. If the manager is racist then it is going to be difficult for discriminated races to progress. The OP has suggested that white people are being favoured (full-time hours/ longer contacts), if this is true then the managers discrimination is creating obvious barriers.

Discrimination can have a very big impact on how you progress within a job and can affect your chances of working your way up.
I was in no way trying to trivialize her experience or feelings. I was trying to make logical conclusions based on my personal experience. I feel they lead to a more pragmatic approach that I believe will bring her more success and happiness. And I don't know that she'll be happy fighting the system. But if that's what she chooses, she's gotta do what she feels is best. I do think, if she decides to go that route, becoming a valuable team player will give her far more clout. Either way, win win.

As a female, I fully understand how discrimination can affect your career, especially in a male dominated industry. Personally, I've found sexism to be far more accepted, and I have learned that beating my head against teh wall at injustices did not help me sleep at night. I don't feel heroic. I feel let down. I didn't win. Granted, I'm not sure I had the fortitude to give it a tough fight but I hate fighting. Things rarely end up like they do in movies. The bad guys do win. Every day and often. And I was hoping to impart a potentially more positive route for her own peace of mind.
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Old 6th August 2011, 6:05 PM   #24
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I'm exiting this job in less than 2 weeks (thank goodness) because I was hired FT somewhere else. I still want to say something to the DM as a parting shot of sorts, not even necessarily about my original post, but about his outrageous lack of professionalism in general.

The other day I was chatting with one of my coworkers and she said he called her at 8 A.M. on her day off (!) to ask her to run out and buy something for him that he needed for demonstrations for a training session. Of course, she didn't do it. And he also called her numerous times while she was on her vacation last week, like she was on the clock and obligated to help him or something. There were a few times when he asked one or more of us to use our own cell phones to make recruiting calls. He hasn't even offered to reimburse us for any of these extra favors. He also fired another of my coworkers, and he used the line: "I'm not firing you, but I am."

I am dying to report this guy.
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Old 8th August 2011, 12:53 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Alice74 View Post

Now, calling him a "typical all-American kid" that I find kind of discriminatory.. hehe
Based on what, pray tell ??????????



The first thing to do before engaging in conversations about racism and discrimination, is look up the meanings of both.
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Old 8th August 2011, 8:58 AM   #26
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I quit yesterday. I told the manager I was hired FT and that I start soon (which is true, thank goodness) and then told a white lie, saying I would be going on vacation to see my parents before I start my new job, so it would be my last day. He gave me my last check and everything ended on good terms. I felt so uncomfortable working there; I only did it because I was desperate for money and to get out of the apartment and I had no other prospects even though I was diligently applying to other jobs. And on top of that, the manager is an obnoxious jerk--the most unprofessional person I have ever had the misfortune to work under, and very likely racist.

If I were to report him it would be to the guy who hired him, and anything being done is a long shot because the whole damn company is very shady.
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Old 8th August 2011, 10:02 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by tigressA View Post
If I were to report him it would be to the guy who hired him, and anything being done is a long shot because the whole damn company is very shady.

You left on good terms.. he paid you properly and you even said you only took the job for money..
Why try and complicate his life and the company's life, it seems you have a vendetta to grind for no good reason.

The other issue is that the rumor grapevine and your own reputation.. why become known as a trouble maker, nobody will hire you.
It's different if you were really discriminated against but you weren't in this case you just hated the guy.
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Old 8th August 2011, 10:14 AM   #28
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I said I only STAYED at the job out of desperation. I TOOK the job because it was advertised as something different from what it turned out to be. If I had been hired anywhere else before now I would've left the job then. As I said, he's the most unprofessional person I've ever had to work under, and while it likely wouldn't hold up, I had at least some proof that he negatively profiles people based on race. It wasn't just me who thought all that, either. I have never worked with or under someone so obnoxious until him, and if I had, I would've at least made plans to take similar action in reporting them. The reason why I 'hate' him is how he does his job and treats people who work under him.
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Old 8th August 2011, 10:33 AM   #29
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Not every thing you do in life is going to work out the way you would have liked it to..
I'm sure most people have had an experience in their work careers that they wished wasn't part of their past.. but life has a way of just happening and we can't control all aspects of our lives.

You should just file this under "Been there done that, hope to never repeat it" rather than try to make a guys life miserable that paid you well and harbored no ill will toward you, he just did it with a twist you didn't like and treated you in a manner that wasn't all that cool.

The world is full of people that are just plain jerks and your last boss won't the only one you will run into in your future either..

Good luck with your new job...
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Old 8th August 2011, 4:33 PM   #30
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