Dishonest Client Contacts. How to handle?

[tinktronik]

A few months ago we were contacted and provided service to a new client. We outline each service and the expected results very, very specifically in writing. Anyway we did the work and turned over the finished materials in the very beginning of Dec. and turned them over via email on deadline.

 

Upon returning to "the office" (this actually means I took vacation and did not check office lines or email since the 22) I listened to voicemail and had a message from the assistant (our only contact) on the 23rd at 7:30 in the evening saying that she did not have the materials. I pulled open my employee's email and found all of the correspondence and found his email turning over the materials the very beginning of Dec., outlining what she was receiving and advising that remainder balance billing would be out the next day. I was not sat down 2 minutes before the phone started to ring. I answered the phone and it's the assistant's boss (who we have never had any contact with) stating that she never got the materials, that her assistant had been calling and emailing us daily for weeks, and that she had disputed her CC payments to us. So, I popped open our call log for the month of Dec and there were no incoming calls from her assistant or anyone else from her office other than the message left on the 23rd, after hours. We have been closed for the holiday from the 22nd and are formally closed until the 3rd. There were no emails from the assistant dating back two months or so.

 

So, I worked with the boss lady, sent her all of our previous correspondence with her assistant, explained we had no contact with her assistant for months, I sent her the materials and our timeline showing we had completed the work to spec. I then called our billing company, sent them the same materials and they got the reversal of CC charges stopped.

 

It is clear that what happened was the assistant dropped the ball and pointed the finger at us. The assistant sent a bunch of emails to us back to back today claiming we offered her additional services and did not do them, services we don't even offer. None of the correspondence reflects this and all the services in writing were preformed as promised. I think this is just sour grapes to be honest.

 

Should I just offer to sell her more service do you think? What's the best way to deal with the assistant who is making things up as she goes along? I don't want to end up in a lawsuit over her making claims to her boss. Can I refuse contact with her and request her boss contact us instead?

[desertIslandCactus]

Are they still claiming they didn't receive the original materials?

[tinktronik]

Are they still claiming they didn't receive the original materials?

 

The assistant is still claiming we never sent her the materials but that she got them from her boss yesterday. I actually sent her boss 2 copies via 2 emails and the assistant 2 copies in 2 emails yesterday. So this is 5 total sends of the same materials, one to the assistant on the 2nd and 4 yesterday.

 

I have a feeling the complaints are just going to escalate unless we refund them. I do not want to refund them anything b/c the services were provided as specified and in writing and at a very fair price.

 

But I don't have any desire to bicker about services we don't even offer in the first place and I don't know what she may tell her boss she or we have done at this point either if we continue to converse with her.

[desertIslandCactus]

I don't think you are in a position to ask to only converse with boss and not assistant.

 

But perhaps you could copy both on all future correspondence.

 

I don't know what you have in writing to their company about your services .. published or personally given .. But in my business, if a customer asked for additional services (that we could provide), I would have to charge them extra.

[tinktronik]

I don't think you are in a position to ask to only converse with boss and not assistant.

 

But perhaps you could copy both on all future correspondence.

 

I don't know what you have in writing to their company about your services .. published or personally given .. But in my business, if a customer asked for additional services (that we could provide), I would have to charge them extra.

 

I really would prefer not to converse with either of them. We have provided the services in the contract, billing is closed and materials have been delivered. If a fist time client gives me any real issues I generally as a rule don't do business with them again. So while I am always polite I am not going to attempt any rescuing the client relationship on this one.

 

We do really detailed contracts spelling out exactly what we will provide to the client and bill line item for those services and yes, for any additional services we would have certainly billed for them and it would be reflected as a line item. I just don't want to get into an arguing match with the assistant saying yes you did, no we didn't ect.

 

How would you respond if an assistant were claiming you had promised additional services that your business not only does not provide but the client has not been billed for?

[desertIslandCactus]

I'd feel like you - I wouldn't want to do business with them again. One of them has signed the contract.

 

Sounds like there is no dispute. The assistant cannot claim verbal promises aside from your contract. So all you can do with either of them, is to refer to the contract each time they contact you...

[tinktronik]

I'd feel like you - I wouldn't want to do business with them again. One of them has signed the contract.

 

Sounds like there is no dispute. The assistant cannot claim verbal promises aside from your contract. So all you can do with either of them, is to refer to the contract each time they contact you...

 

This is spot on. I will refer them to the contract. There really is no dispute.

 

This always itches at me though... if there's miscommunication or a client is left unhappy for their own assumptions. I always wonder is there more verbiage I should put into the contracts or into an email but I guess it would be ridiculous to word in every service we don't provide in our contracts, that could go on and on forever. I usually go out of my way and even have employees or myself deliver personally sometimes or throw in a some extra convenience at no extra charge if the billing is already done.

[desertIslandCactus]

This is spot on. I will refer them to the contract. There really is no dispute.

 

This always itches at me though... if there's miscommunication or a client is left unhappy for their own assumptions. I always wonder is there more verbiage I should put into the contracts or into an email but I guess it would be ridiculous to word in every service we don't provide in our contracts, that could go on and on forever. I usually go out of my way and even have employees or myself deliver personally sometimes or throw in a some extra convenience at no extra charge if the billing is already done.

 

I think a contract should be simple, large print, and explained in front of witnesses.

 

In my business we don't do contracts, just a few lines at the bottom of quote sheet. If I don't trust or know them, I ask that they sign or initial the quote before proceding..

 

Long dumb story. ha

 

We had a disposal service for dumpsters forever. They decided not to do bus in our city any longer, because city was favoring another disposal company, and socking it to others.

 

So the new disposal company (the city favored one) purchased the business of my orig one.

 

I was told verbally and in writing that the service wouldn't change.

 

So the new disposal company rep came into my shop a few times when I wasn't there. Finally she came in and had one of my sons sign her 'contract'. It was simple ledgeable on front side... light, tiny writing, nasty on the reverse side. None of us ever read the reverse side, nor had she gone over it with my son, nor did we pay any attention to it.

 

So nearly a year went by, I didn't like them or their service - and I cancelled.

 

They sued me in Small Claims for 6 months addition restitution. I appeared with the sheet from the orig disposal service saying things wouldn't change (NO 'contract' with them) .. also I had been sent the Same sheet from the second company saying just the same service and no change.

 

Judge took my sheet into admission After he lectured them about how much he hates these tiny light print Reverse Side contracts.. and ruled against them. ha

[tinktronik]

I think a contract should be simple, large print, and explained in front of witnesses.

 

In my business we don't do contracts, just a few lines at the bottom of quote sheet. If I don't trust or know them, I ask that they sign or initial the quote before proceding..

 

Long dumb story. ha

 

We had a disposal service for dumpsters forever. They decided not to do bus in our city any longer, because city was favoring another disposal company, and socking it to others.

 

So the new disposal company (the city favored one) purchased the business of my orig one.

 

I was told verbally and in writing that the service wouldn't change.

 

So the new disposal company rep came into my shop a few times when I wasn't there. Finally she came in and had one of my sons sign her 'contract'. It was simple ledgeable on front side... light, tiny writing, nasty on the reverse side. None of us ever read the reverse side, nor had she gone over it with my son, nor did we pay any attention to it.

 

So nearly a year went by, I didn't like them or their service - and I cancelled.

 

They sued me in Small Claims for 6 months addition restitution. I appeared with the sheet from the orig disposal service saying things wouldn't change (NO 'contract' with them) .. also I had been sent the Same sheet from the second company saying just the same service and no change.

 

Judge took my sheet into admission After he lectured them about how much he hates these tiny light print Reverse Side contracts.. and ruled against them. ha

 

Good for you. Hopefully after I refer back to the contract this thing will be resolved.

[desertIslandCactus]

Good for you. Hopefully after I refer back to the contract this thing will be resolved.

 

It certainly should. To tell them all the terms of the contract were carried out.

[tinktronik]

It certainly should. To tell them all the terms of the contract were carried out.

 

Blah-- and on it goes. The client's assist contacted us today saying that she understood that we would provide the service (that we do not even provide in the first place) and that they would be willing to pay for that service as they still need it done. We responded with our billable contract that we have fulfilled and that we at this time we could not provide them the service they may require and did not know of another service to refer them to. And that further we could not accept billing from their CC company as they had attempted to reverse charges of the last transaction. (In reality the CC reversal created about $300 in my billable time wasted that I had to spend on the phone, email and fax fooling around with the reversal. Plus any additional time I have spent on phone or emails with this client. It is just not worth putting all of this effort into a client when I am not going to get paid anything for the time I spend replying to them.)

 

 

Welllllll, at 5 PM the client called flipping out -- insisting that they had paid for this service, I again reiterated with the services we had billed for that had been promised in their contract. She spilled out with all of the things her assist had been reporting to her and I told her that I am unwilling to have a client relationship that includes a third party that "interprets" incorrectly between parties, that it makes both of our jobs more difficult, ect. But I over and over again explained that we had promised X things in the contract, fulfilled X promises and billed for X. The client talked over me, stayed angry and insisted we preform this service. That's how the call went down.

 

How many times is it reasonable to respond to their calls and emails? Do I have to indefinitely explain to them that I will not take commissions from their company for work they are now trying to order? Do I have to take any future harassing phone calls after I have explained that our business is complete and we will not accept further commissions from them?

[desertIslandCactus]

I don't know if they're trying to get by with something or not .. but it is obvious that the boss wants to rest on what his assistant supposedly told him, and not listen to you.

 

I am so glad you were able to discuss it in a business like manner and stress that the terms of the contract were carried out.

 

I didn't understand your first paragraph.. Have they paid you for your services?

 

Is the service they are requesting a simple service that you could refer them to someone?

[tinktronik]

I don't know if they're trying to get by with something or not .. but it is obvious that the boss wants to rest on what his assistant supposedly told him, and not listen to you.

 

I am so glad you were able to discuss it in a business like manner and stress that the terms of the contract were carried out.

 

I didn't understand your first paragraph.. Have they paid you for your services?

 

Is the service they are requesting a simple service that you could refer them to someone?

 

They have paid us. When the assist told the client that she had been calling us over and over and had not received the documents, the client did a reversal on the credit card payment. So I spent the better part of a day getting the reversal stopped by speaking with reps and faxing the correspondence showing that we had completed the work and turned it over. So we have been paid but I burned a lot of time staying paid.

 

The service is a simple service but would not be simple in this case as is involved many mixed formats and the originals are very degraded. I know a lot of companies that take on the task they need done, but do not know of one that would take it on with the formatting or level of degraded materials.

 

But di I have to continue to take their calls?

[carhill]

But do I have to continue to take their calls?

 

What's the worst that could happen if you don't? Clearly, some people are not to be reasoned with, so IMO don't. Firing and black-holing customers is quite acceptable and even healthy. Run the gist of it past your lawyer for clarity, then make a decision and stick to it. Good luck

[desertIslandCactus]

They have paid us. When the assist told the client that she had been calling us over and over and had not received the documents, the client did a reversal on the credit card payment. So I spent the better part of a day getting the reversal stopped by speaking with reps and faxing the correspondence showing that we had completed the work and turned it over. So we have been paid but I burned a lot of time staying paid.

 

The service is a simple service but would not be simple in this case as is involved many mixed formats and the originals are very degraded. I know a lot of companies that take on the task they need done, but do not know of one that would take it on with the formatting or level of degraded materials.

 

But di I have to continue to take their calls?

 

Yes, I would think so.

 

All you can do is to continue to tell them the facts.

 

Possibly they are trying to wear you down, or to cover their mistake - but all you can do is to continue to take the calls and explain the same over and over - otherwise it may antagonize them if you ignore.

[tinktronik]

What's the worst that could happen if you don't? Clearly, some people are not to be reasoned with, so IMO don't. Firing and black-holing customers is quite acceptable and even healthy. Run the gist of it past your lawyer for clarity, then make a decision and stick to it. Good luck

 

I have black-holed clients before. Never a law firm but eh' I'm pretty done with this one. She did a second CC reversal tonight, which I got stopped again. She's really starting to piss me off. I will run the gist of it by my attorney but I think I will put together a canned response email and shoot it off to her in response to all phone and email messages from now on. I wish there was a way to vet clients for mental health before you take on work.

[tinktronik]

Yes, I would think so.

 

All you can do is to continue to tell them the facts.

 

Possibly they are trying to wear you down, or to cover their mistake - but all you can do is to continue to take the calls and explain the same over and over - otherwise it may antagonize them if you ignore.

 

Maybe. I am getting worn down, but it's just pissing me off at this point.

[tinktronik]

What I need is a service that has a blacklisted client list for pain in the arse clients, slow pay, no pay, ect. so that you know the risks for taking them on before you ever get started.

[carhill]

My attorney usually advises me, at a point like this, that the first person who talks loses. I think that's instructive.

 

Myself, when I am approached by a new customer (my customers are mostly businesses), I ask for references and call the ones I know. Never a surprise yet. If it's ugly, I know it going in and adjust the APM fee accordingly.

 

The problem with attorneys is that they're just persistent, regardless of the subject and/or real issues. It's like debating class in high school all over again. Thanks but I'll pass on that. Here's a number to call. Spar with him. I'd say that even if I were an attorney. Bigger fish to fry

[tinktronik]

My attorney usually advises me, at a point like this, that the first person who talks loses. I think that's instructive.

 

Myself, when I am approached by a new customer (my customers are mostly businesses), I ask for references and call the ones I know. Never a surprise yet. If it's ugly, I know it going in and adjust the APM fee accordingly.

 

The problem with attorneys is that they're just persistent, regardless of the subject and/or real issues. It's like debating class in high school all over again. Thanks but I'll pass on that. Here's a number to call. Spar with him. I'd say that even if I were an attorney. Bigger fish to fry

 

Most of our meat and potatoes are very large, very old businesses and we work on projects dear and near to the people at the tops hearts. They tend to be the easiest to work with and are willing pay for premium services and I almost always love working with these clients.

 

We don't handle a lot of one offs, law firms are almost always one large offs or small occasional jobs, but occasionally one will filter in. I am learning an irritating lesson here. In all honestly the billing on this project would not be worth the time exerted to check references and we probably should have just refused to book the work in the first place.

 

Today's Lesson: Attorneys go to school to argue... mostly because they enjoy arguing.

 

I will get a call through to our atty. tomorrow and see if he wants me to take future cals or not.

[carhill]

Here's one from carhill's vault:

 

I recall turning an attorney down for a loan because:

 

He stiffed a pizza parlor on the check (wrote a rubber one) for pizzas for his staff. Saw it on the tri-merge with my own eyes. Can you imagine a pizza parlor sending a rubber check to collections? I knew the owners (went to school with their kids many years ago) and, yeah, they're old-fashioned Italians. Don't mess with their money.

 

Trust me, he didn't like me that day.....

 

True story.

 

I could dish the dirt on local judges and attorneys that would curl your toes

[desertIslandCactus]

I have black-holed clients before. Never a law firm but eh' I'm pretty done with this one. She did a second CC reversal tonight, which I got stopped again. She's really starting to piss me off. I will run the gist of it by my attorney but I think I will put together a canned response email and shoot it off to her in response to all phone and email messages from now on. I wish there was a way to vet clients for mental health before you take on work.

 

I know what an agitation and a hindrance this must be to you.

 

Didn't know this was an attorney's office doing this to you .. yuk.

 

I wouldn't waste too much billable time with your attorney.

 

While the transaction is still fresh in your mind, document communications aside from the contract.

 

If you feel you must email or put anything in writing to them - carefully word it.

 

If they're bad enough to Reverse the transaction, they may pursue it further. So keep your file complete.