LoveShack.org Community Forums

Reload this Page LoveShack.org Community Forums > Platonic > Business and Professional Relationships

Equal opportunity employment sucks sometimes!


Business and Professional Relationships Networking and maintaining a positive environment in the work place is important! Surviving the 9-to-5 within.

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 13th February 2010, 5:21 PM   #46
Established Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 513
Well, being a white male I MUST compete with EVERYONE based solely on MERIT.. That means against Asians, other whites, Jews, women, African Americans etc.

Companies in my area try to reflect the cultural make up of the city.

Hmmm..

So considering 50% of African Americans drop out of high school, about 25% of males 21-30 are in one form of the correctional system, and maybe only 15% even graduate college, they are GUARANTEED A JOB. And of course promotions as long as they merely show up for work.

Basically it works like "You are African American? Have a degree? No criminal record? Hired!" Meanwhile I graduated with honors, was turned down for many jobs, and also told I benefit from "White privilege"

Last edited by calazhage; 13th February 2010 at 5:24 PM..
calazhage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2010, 5:26 PM   #47
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 660
Well it's usually apparent if a person is of color. I am clear to state usually. At a job interview it's not like someone is going to be asked "what is your sexual preference" and you can always make assumptions based on appearance but it isn't a hiring factor as it is for your boss in human resources who wants minorities.
Pink Cupcakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2010, 5:39 PM   #48
Established Member
 
anne1707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink Cupcakes View Post
Gay doesn't really fit in to hiring, it's not like they ask you on a job application orit comes up in an interview. You keep mentioning that gay men are considered minorities, that doesn't count for employment/human resources type quotas.
Gender, sexuality, age, religion, ethnicity, disability - all areas where potential employers may prosecuted for discrimination amd may therefore be monitoring/targeting.
__________________
"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.."

- Richard Dawkins
anne1707 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2010, 6:36 PM   #49
Established Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by calazhage View Post
Well, being a white male I MUST compete with EVERYONE based solely on MERIT.. That means against Asians, other whites, Jews, women, African Americans etc.

Companies in my area try to reflect the cultural make up of the city.

Hmmm..

So considering 50% of African Americans drop out of high school, about 25% of males 21-30 are in one form of the correctional system, and maybe only 15% even graduate college, they are GUARANTEED A JOB. And of course promotions as long as they merely show up for work.

Basically it works like "You are African American? Have a degree? No criminal record? Hired!" Meanwhile I graduated with honors, was turned down for many jobs, and also told I benefit from "White privilege"
Really well in that case I should have people lining up to hire me....

anyways statistics can and often are manipulated to fit an agenda what ever the agenda may be. Taking several courses on how to interpret data and how studies come up with those numbers makes me leary of stats mostly. I know i said earlier that stats show that those with white sounding names get called back 50% more than those with ethnic sounding names but I even question that stat...like what region did they do the study...how did they decicde what names to pick,what were the variables....for instance if a hr manager is busy they may look over someone named shonnnanah simply bc it takes to long to figure out how to pronounce vs someones name like keisha which is ethnic but is common place now a days....anywho done rambling.
TwinkletOes26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2010, 6:42 PM   #50
Established Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink Cupcakes View Post
Well it's usually apparent if a person is of color. I am clear to state usually. At a job interview it's not like someone is going to be asked "what is your sexual preference" and you can always make assumptions based on appearance but it isn't a hiring factor as it is for your boss in human resources who wants minorities.
true but if we lived in a society where people are taught that race/gender doesnt matter things like affirmative action wouldnt be needed. To me this is just a symptom of a sickness in our society that no one wants to fix. Yes on the outside people say "racism is wrong" but when policies get made and certain traits are associated with a persons race it causes a problem.

People say obama getting elected has changed things when it hasnt changed a thing. Its just now people use that s a scape goat "well a minority is president so race doesnt matter". Obama just happens to have prestige of going to a ivy league school,and plenty of yrs to prove himself capable. Sadly you dont get yrs to prove the covert prejudices wrong that a hiring manager may have.

Now I am not implying that all hiring managers have prejudice against minorities/women but sadly some do. I was complementing dlish she wanted to pick a person based on skill not race and even though the person she wanted was the same race as her it did not matter. She based her desire on skills....its sad that she was forced to pick to fill a quota. Im saying I agree with her on this one.
TwinkletOes26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2010, 10:33 PM   #51
Established Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 513
Let me ask this..


Why is affirmative action need considering we live in such a capitalistic society? Are businesses really going to pass on a black man that they feel would increase revenue, or in some way save the company more money because he is black? I doubt it.

And since many people are multi racial, where do they fit in? Would someone like a Tiger Woods or an Obama benefit from affirmative action? What % black must they be? 100? 75? 50? 25?
calazhage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2010, 11:44 PM   #52
Established Member
 
D-Lish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,878
Honestly, I only want to hire the best person for the job.
When I am interviewing, I don't care about the colour of their skin, I don't care about their sexual preference, I don't care about their gender. In order for things to function efficiently, it just makes sense to me to hire the most qualified person.

As I said before, I am well aware that awesome people, qualified people have been discriminated against in the past because of the colour of their skin. I fully support how wrong that is. I just can't help but see the hyprocrisy of what is now happening in reverse. That is discrimination to me.

In the States, it is coined affirmative action- here, it falls under equal opportunity employment. It does include gays with regard to our company policy. I was briefed on that during my orientation - however, being in fashion, gay men are not a minority in my business.
D-Lish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2010, 1:50 AM   #53
Established Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by calazhage View Post
Let me ask this..


Why is affirmative action need considering we live in such a capitalistic society? Are businesses really going to pass on a black man that they feel would increase revenue, or in some way save the company more money because he is black? I doubt it.

And since many people are multi racial, where do they fit in? Would someone like a Tiger Woods or an Obama benefit from affirmative action? What % black must they be? 100? 75? 50? 25?

Ever hear of the one drop rule if not google it...it will answer all your questions. Peoples prejudice often overrules whats best sadly...and not just white ...black as well. I know just as many racist black folks as I do white. I think everyone needs to learn to worry about skill and performance instead of how tan someone is.
TwinkletOes26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2010, 3:38 AM   #54
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 660
Lightbulb

Yah Dlish but you were saying that a gay guy is considered a minority as much as a black woman, and that's not true really.
On paper and interviews, a white gay guy is a white guy. You were the one who brought gay guys into it and it's kind of confusing here because HR is preferring that you hire a qualified minority over a qualifed white person. Is HR stating that they prefer to hire white gay men over white women? Are these gay guys you are interviewing stating at the interviews that they are gay? Are you, as an interviewer asking them this?
Pink Cupcakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2010, 9:35 AM   #55
Established Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink Cupcakes View Post
because HR is preferring that you hire a qualified minority over a qualifed white person.
There is such a thing as MOST qualified.
calazhage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2010, 11:58 AM   #56
Established Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,360
I agree with Pink as i find that confusing as well. Equal employment covers the following protected classes, race, color, religion, national origin, sex, age, marital status, and physical or mental disabilities any other legally protected characteristic. Do you have something on the application that asks them to indicate any of the above?

Affirmative action is the set of public policies and initiatives designed to help eliminate past and present discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. So sexual orientation is not considered part of the affirmative action guidelines.

Your white female candidate would fall into affirmative action based on her gender. Was HR mandating that you hire someone else or asking you to consider, or argue, the merits of her vs someone else? If she was not working in regards to what they wanted to affirmative action, then who did they want you to hire.

Does your company have an affirmative action program in place or something that HR is trying to take into consideration? Not every company, at least in the US, has a program or is required to have a program in place.

Honestly I would engage HR further and get a little more information. If you feel that she is the best candidate then you hire based on that. Just have your supporting reasons on why that is the case. But am still confused why they/you are thinking she doesn't qualify for affirmative action.
Got it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2010, 12:06 PM   #57
Established Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by anne1707 View Post
Gender, sexuality, age, religion, ethnicity, disability - all areas where potential employers may prosecuted for discrimination amd may therefore be monitoring/targeting.
For the US' definition of Affirmative Action, sexual orientation does not fall into it. It is targeting, race, gender and ethnicity, so while there is discussion on sexual orientation it is not currently part of this program (again not for the US).
Got it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2010, 12:14 PM   #58
Established Member
 
D-Lish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Got it View Post
I agree with Pink as i find that confusing as well. Equal employment covers the following protected classes, race, color, religion, national origin, sex, age, marital status, and physical or mental disabilities any other legally protected characteristic. Do you have something on the application that asks them to indicate any of the above?

Affirmative action is the set of public policies and initiatives designed to help eliminate past and present discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. So sexual orientation is not considered part of the affirmative action guidelines.
I'm not in the states, I'm in Canada- this isn't affirmative action - it falls under equal opportunity, and every company has it's own mandate. Not every company adopts an equal opportunity program.
The message is to reflect community diversity.

When you fill out an application, you have the option of checking your ethnicity and gender, it doesn't go beyond that. Other things will become apparant during an interview.
D-Lish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2010, 12:32 PM   #59
Established Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Lish View Post
I'm not in the states, I'm in Canada- this isn't affirmative action - it falls under equal opportunity, and every company has it's own mandate. Not every company adopts an equal opportunity program.
The message is to reflect community diversity.

When you fill out an application, you have the option of checking your ethnicity and gender, it doesn't go beyond that. Other things will become apparant during an interview.
While I disagree that each company has it's own mandates, the Canadian Human Rights Act follows the following:


The Human Rights Act is a provincial law that prohibits discrimination and harassment in:
  • Employment
  • Housing
  • Public services for example schools, stores, motels, hospitals, police and most government services
  • Publicity, and
  • Certain associations

The grounds of prohibited discrimination are:
  • Race
  • Colour
  • National origin
  • Place of origin
  • Ancestry
  • Religion
  • Age
  • Marital status
  • Sex
  • Sexual orientation
  • Physical or mental disability
  • Social condition, which includes source of income, level of education and occupation, and
  • Political belief or activity
So, yes, sexual orientation, does fall into it. I would still argue that gender is in there as well so is as great a factor as national origin or sexual orientation. In fact if HR is arguing that one protected class is more or less than another then they are in fact discriminating as well.
Got it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2010, 12:59 PM   #60
Established Member
 
D-Lish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,878
I was just gathering this info similar to our hiring policy:

Quote:
"xxx " does not discriminate against employees or applicants for employment based upon race, color, religion, gender, national origin, citizenship, age, disability, veteran status, sexual orientation, marital status, HIV-positive status, or social or economic class. The company will make any reasonable effort to ensure that all applicants and employees will receive equal opportunity in personnel matters, including recruiting, selection, training, placement, promotion, wages and benefits, transfers, terminations, and working conditions.

"xx" is an Equal Opportunity Employer. We are committed to representing the diverse communities we serve. That's why we encourage applications from visible minorities, aboriginal people, and people with disabilities.
I read my policy over and over during the hiring process.
I couldn't help but think that not hiring this girl was a breach of our own policy.
But nothing is spoken outright against a hire- it's implication and innuendo..."think diversity", things like that.

I personally have followed that policy- 75% of my hires until this situation have fallen under the umbrella of minorities/sexual orientation.

I just have to stay focused, and make sure I don't let my resent over this issue get in the way of the person that was actually hired. I was pissed she showed up late for her first day- and that just added to the anger I was already feeling. I have to wipe the slate clean and start fresh with her this week.
D-Lish is offline   Reply With Quote
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

 

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I can't get past the gap in my employment BW007 Business and Professional Relationships 3 19th May 2009 3:52 PM
Equal pay for equal work... is this legal? mopar crazy Business and Professional Relationships 18 22nd July 2008 4:34 PM
Another equal pay for equal work questions....different situation mopar crazy Business and Professional Relationships 15 1st July 2008 11:58 AM
MM waiting for employment maggiemay The Other Man / Woman 11 5th December 2005 10:35 AM

 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 3:47 PM.

Please note: The suggestions and advice offered on this web site are opinions only and are not to be used in the place of professional psychological counseling or medical advice. If you or someone close to you is currently in crisis or in an emergency situation, contact your local law enforcement agency or emergency number.


Copyright © 1997-2013 LoveShack.org. All Rights Reserved.