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Hiring someone who has been fired?


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Old 14th December 2009, 8:05 PM   #46
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LB you have gotten some very good advice here, so I am not going ot repeat - from this post or from earlier posts.

Howver you stated on thing that is incorrect so I will address that - yes a potential employer can determine that you had another job. And NOT they do not do it from old credit applications - those are confidential, not the fact that you applied for credit but the content is not public.

They simply ask for a copy of your W2 - it's all in there. I'm not saying they all ask for it - but many do - so why risk it. Don't lie on your job application - if found out that will far more to hurt your future coareer than having been terminated.
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Old 14th December 2009, 8:06 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauriebell82 View Post
Yeah, true.

Anyway, putting thread back on topic. I like the suggestion that Carrie had, I'm just a little worried that it may sound unbelievable. This is just so hard because I feel that nobody is going to give me a chance and I will never get back in the field. I'm so frustrated.

I'm just going to take the chance of interviewing without xxxxx on my resume. Like I said I don't really have much credit, as I don't have a credit card or any kind of loans. I just feel like I will have a better chance at a job. I wish this hadn't been my first job...

As others have suggested, leaving that particular job off a résumé could and would potentially raise bigger red flags if they are seriously considering you and it showed up later (remember that background check thing). Many of us have suggested that leaving it off a résumeé is a mistake and you are far better served learning how to explain what happened.
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Old 14th December 2009, 8:11 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Lauriebell82 View Post
I'm just worried with good reason. Nobody has hired me and I am getting paranoid honestly. Making fun of me doesn't help me at all.
You know I said this before and you basically told me I didn't know what I was talking about - but I'll risk saying it again. You are trying to find a job in a very down economy - it's not going to happen quickly or easily. Every job you apply has G-d only knows how many applicants, most of whom are more qualified than you are (not your fault, just reality). At this point they are willing to earn less money as long as they are earning.

So who would you hire? Someone straight out of school for XYZ salary, or someone with several years of experience for the same XYZ salary? The data is out there - these are the facts. Studies show that 7 years after the last down economhy people who had been laid off are STILL not earning as much as they were before the lay off.

LB you need to stop take some of the really good advice you've gotten here, stop changing your tactics and stories, and just keep plugging. Oh and you need to thank G-d that you are not carrying a huge debt load AND you have a safety net.

I know you are frustrated but you are so much better off than so many people, I think you need a little perspective.
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Old 14th December 2009, 8:18 PM   #49
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Lb dont let people here and in general get you down. Yes places will hire someone who had been fired before. If this wasnt true then a LOT of people would never get another job again.

The economy sucks and you are competiting with people who may have more years of experience and maybe higher degrees. Companies are taking this time to get what they consider "the best" talent they can find knowing that now people are willing to take anything.

Oh another suggestion try like a walmart or target vision center. The hours arent that bad,and you dont have to deal with AS MANY rude customers as in retail.

Ive applied at a few and been told that in JAN they will really need people bc their college age help will be going back to school for spring semester. Try there...dont give up LB.
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Old 14th December 2009, 8:22 PM   #50
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Ah come on, was that really neccessary? Sheesh.

I'm just worried with good reason. Nobody has hired me and I am getting paranoid honestly. Making fun of me doesn't help me at all.
I wasn't making fun of you.

You are listening to people who tell you to go to an interview and say that you've been fired.

That's the worst advice I've ever heard.
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Old 14th December 2009, 8:38 PM   #51
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recruiting

I was at a fast growing software company for a decade. While there I interviewed about 300 to 400 folks and hired 60-70 or so.

Most of the folks I hired did well for us and I think they felt we did well for them.

One reason most of these recruits did well was that I had a very keen ear for tone. Certain folks have a happy tone, others a serious tone, and yet others an angry tone. Sometimes that tone was quite subtle, still I could hear it. And I just never hired those folks.

LB- you seem angry at your prior employer - angry that you have to do housework (from your other posts) - just angry in general.

Also, there was a standard way in which we handled terminations at that company which made it less difficult for folks to get their next job, but it required an amicable parting. Did you have an amicable parting?


Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousnycgirl View Post
You know I said this before and you basically told me I didn't know what I was talking about - but I'll risk saying it again. You are trying to find a job in a very down economy - it's not going to happen quickly or easily. Every job you apply has G-d only knows how many applicants, most of whom are more qualified than you are (not your fault, just reality). At this point they are willing to earn less money as long as they are earning.

So who would you hire? Someone straight out of school for XYZ salary, or someone with several years of experience for the same XYZ salary? The data is out there - these are the facts. Studies show that 7 years after the last down economhy people who had been laid off are STILL not earning as much as they were before the lay off.

LB you need to stop take some of the really good advice you've gotten here, stop changing your tactics and stories, and just keep plugging. Oh and you need to thank G-d that you are not carrying a huge debt load AND you have a safety net.

I know you are frustrated but you are so much better off than so many people, I think you need a little perspective.
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Old 14th December 2009, 8:44 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
You are listening to people who tell you to go to an interview and say that you've been fired.

That's the worst advice I've ever heard.
It's actually very good advice.

LB, this is a little bit off the PM I sent you.

Based on my experience doing what I do, the worst part isn't that you screwed up (whether the screw up was getting fired or getting caught drunk driving or whatever). The primary things that the people we advise consider are
1. Your honesty and integrity, and
2. What did you learn from your f*kc up?

Both of these are things that people have been telling you for 4 pages now, so I'm weighing in with them.

If you lie, you will be eliminated from consideration for a position.
If you didn't learn anything, didn't accept blame, and overall make us think you're likely to do it again and didn't take it seriously, you will be eliminated from consideration for a position.
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Old 14th December 2009, 8:49 PM   #53
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LB- You are right, social services will NOT spend money for a credit check on you. They will do the usual criminal background check and make you pay for it ;-) lol.

Did you work with someone at your other job that you are still in contact with that you could use as a reference? It would be a shame to lose that experience. I myself would avoid saying I was terminated, suggest I was laid off, then have a former co-worker give me a reference. Did you ever liason with anyone in your program (like someone in your community) that you could use as a reference?

I think you can find a creative way through it. What do you have to lose by getting creative with your reference and responses (They were downsizing - well they did downsize by one when they let you go).
If admitting you got fired isn't going to get you a job- then what do you have to lose by fudging the truth a bit...the job? You're already losing it by admitting you got fired!

I haven't heard one person here say they'd be open to hiring someone who got fired... SO it's time to get creative.
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Old 14th December 2009, 8:55 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by D-Lish View Post
I haven't heard one person here say they'd be open to hiring someone who got fired... SO it's time to get creative.
I would be and I have
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Old 14th December 2009, 9:10 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by D-Lish View Post
LB- You are right, social services will NOT spend money for a credit check on you. They will do the usual criminal background check and make you pay for it ;-) lol.

Did you work with someone at your other job that you are still in contact with that you could use as a reference? It would be a shame to lose that experience. I myself would avoid saying I was terminated, suggest I was laid off, then have a former co-worker give me a reference. Did you ever liason with anyone in your program (like someone in your community) that you could use as a reference?

I think you can find a creative way through it. What do you have to lose by getting creative with your reference and responses (They were downsizing - well they did downsize by one when they let you go).
If admitting you got fired isn't going to get you a job- then what do you have to lose by fudging the truth a bit...the job? You're already losing it by admitting you got fired!

I haven't heard one person here say they'd be open to hiring someone who got fired... SO it's time to get creative.
If I say I got laid off then when they call my ex employer they can say they would rehire me because it was a layoff. If you get actually terminated for another reason they say they wouldn't rehire me..which I guarantee is what they are saying. My ex boss told my friend that the reason for my leaving is that I didn't meet standards. That doesn't sound like I got laid off.

mem: what is amicable parting?
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Old 14th December 2009, 9:15 PM   #56
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But don't you include references on your resume- specifically those people you tell your future employer it's okay to call?

I left one group home to go to another when I worked in social services because I hated my new boss and she hated me. I gave my new employer our resident psychiatrist as my reference for that position. She gave me a glowing reference- but my actual boss would have sabotaged me.
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Old 14th December 2009, 9:19 PM   #57
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But don't you include references on your resume- specifically those people you tell your future employer it's okay to call?

I left one group home to go to another when I worked in social services because I hated my new boss and she hated me. I gave my new employer our resident psychiatrist as my reference for that position. She gave me a glowing reference- but my actual boss would have sabotaged me.
Yes, I do include coworkers from my job as references. I could ask them to contact that person but they always want to contact the supervisor. On the application it asks to list that person as the contact. Even if I didn't list a supervisor's name they could call them and ask who LB's immediate supervisor is. I would essentially have to ask my coworker to lie and say that they were my supervisor.

I could always ask them to contact my work reference instead of my supervisor but that may look fishy. But then they could always just do it anyway. I could tell them to not contact my employer (supervisor) but again that looks fishy as well.
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Old 14th December 2009, 9:29 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Lauriebell82 View Post
I made mistakes at my job, but really I don't think I deserved to get fired. Sorry, that's the way I feel. I don't care WHAT anyone thinks about that (on here anyway) and you can give me all the flack you want but I won't feel any differently.
I've been on both sides of the interviewing desk, and I was also "right sized" once, so I can see this from both angles here.

Always go into an interview seeing things from the employer's point of view. Chances are, they don't know you or anything about you. All they know is the resume and application you've handed them - that's it. When you enter into an interview situation, you have absolutely no more credibility than the next guy. Moreover, employers have probably been burned at least once by someone they thought that they could take a chance on, only to find out that there was more to the story that they should have seen from the start.

Just like you've lived and learned, they have too. And what their gut tells them is this:

1) hiring someone who's been fired is risky -- it's possible, but they have to have some really good reason to overlook the fact that you've been fired;

2) when you start saying things like, "It wasn't my fault", you're as good as done. Because whether it's true or not, remember, they don't know you: if they pick up the phone call, it's your word against your past employer's, and they will automatically feel a little closer to your employer because they share the same perspective. It's like a fraternity.

It's admirable that you're disclosing the fact that you were let go: you should not change that approach and you are not doing the right thing by taking that off of your resume - they will find out anyway, so you may as well come clean. The right way to handle this is to swallow some of your pride and just tell the truth and put the best, most credible spin on it. Tell them, "Yeah, I was let go." You could probably tell them that you learned something from the experience, although I am not sure that's entirely necessary. You can just say that "It didn't work out. I did the best I could, but it didn't work out. I respect their decision." If they ask if you learned anything, then think of one thing that you learned from it. Think of something profound. Think of one thing that you wish you would have done better in your position (better communication, being more cooperative, etc.).

But remember, they don't know you. Moreover, they don't owe you anything. They've done you a favor even inviting you to the interview. Treat the opportunity with the respect that it deserves.
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Old 14th December 2009, 9:36 PM   #59
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I would be and I have
Well that's good news for her to hear.
I haven't run across someone saying they were terminated when interviewing. I don't think I would hire them... But can't say for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauriebell82 View Post
Yes, I do include coworkers from my job as references. I could ask them to contact that person but they always want to contact the supervisor. On the application it asks to list that person as the contact. Even if I didn't list a supervisor's name they could call them and ask who LB's immediate supervisor is. I would essentially have to ask my coworker to lie and say that they were my supervisor.

I could always ask them to contact my work reference instead of my supervisor but that may look fishy. But then they could always just do it anyway. I could tell them to not contact my employer (supervisor) but again that looks fishy as well.
I see. Maybe our privacy laws or procedures are different in Canada.
When I submit references- I've never had anyone call outside those references.

Often, when I am interviewing- I am asked not to call their current employer- but that is because our business is competetive, and I can't call the person they are working for when they haven't told them they are looking to leave- that would be grounds for their termination. But it's accepted in my business- managers and merchandisers and looking to flip all the time.
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Old 14th December 2009, 9:37 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by curiousnycgirl View Post
I would be and I have
Oh I agree with this. If I were currently in a position to hire, I would not rule out someone who has been fired before. However, there's one very important thing to keep in mind: I would want to know the person and the circumstances before hiring them. The problem is that many people just send resumes and come in off the street for an interview and they come to an interviewer in the position of having been laid off. I would hire someone who's been canned before, but I would have serious doubts about someone I don't know, particularly if I didn't know their references either. That's about as reliable as internet dating.

I would suggest that the OP and anyone in her position start networking, networking and networking. Get out there on your days off and start introducing yourself to people in non-interview situations. Also, see if your friends know people and are willing to put in a good word. Friends are good because they know you *and* they know the person you might be interviewing with. The personal connection is the way to go. Just doing random applying and interviewing though probably has a low rate of return.
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