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Hiring someone who has been fired?


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Old 19th December 2009, 1:47 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by Mary3 View Post
I respect what you are saying. Lets take a Bonus / versus a Raise . Same thing ? Different ? How can you explain these bail out companies getting huge bonuses ? Do you feel they deserved them ? Anyone here is welcome to answer this question
I definitely don't think bailout companies should be getting huge bonuses-ever. But if you company is not a bail out company - it's tough question, and really depends on the ethical nature of how you made your money. Many of the wallstreet firms and banks made their money through what I would consider unethical means (i.e. mortgage lending for unqualified applicants, hedgefund manipulation etc).

My company makes products that consumers buy, and I'm a much bigger purveyor of keeping bonuses in reasonable ranges, and creating a fund (with the additional money) within the company that is a rainy day fund for times when new products don't do well, and salaries need to get paid during development times when there is no positive revenue stream. That way you cover yourself for X amount of time before needing to layoff. This allows people to keep their jobs during the lean times - depending on the size of the rainy day fund.

My business is in the entertainment sector, so there are definitely ups and downs, and people understand that the entertainment business is not overly stable and can result in negative cash flow years, and regular layoffs - if you have back to back products that are not selling well.

Ultimately, I prefer a conservative business model that pays comfortably, but not excessively. I'd rather have a stable job for a longer periods of time, then make high bonuses one year, and get laid off the next. Everyone in my industry knows that when they are working, they MUST be responsible with their savings in order to cover the down times when they might not be employed. My rule of thumbs is to have one+ years of salary in the bank at all times, because there is a very high chance of being unemployed every couple years.
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Old 19th December 2009, 2:05 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Art_Critic View Post
I have taken raises to a slightly different level...

To me an employee has already been paid for their past performance..
To pay someone a raise for what they did in the past and what they were already paid for is mind boggling to me..

I believe that a raise is for what that particular employee will do for my company in the future.

Show me that that you will make me money in the future based on your past performance and you will get the raise today...

Show me that you will be flat or that you will keep the status quo then there isn't a raise coming your way..

Harsh.. maybe.. but I'm not in business to keep the status quo..
That's a great philosophy, and I agree generally with your metaphorical approach. But unless you've got a crystal ball that works a whole lot better than mine, just how do you predict (or how does an employee "show you") that a given employee "will make [you] money in the future"? You said it yourself in your next 5 words: "...based on past performance..."

So it's a great philosophical approach to consider a raise as motivator/reward for future performance (and technically that's what it is: over the next year you get paid more, so I expect more from you during that period) but realistically, in the world without crystal balls that we live in, isn't your only way of evaluating the merits of that raise, evaluation of past performance, attitude, loyalty, and history with your company?

So you say this is harsh, but is it any more than your own personal way of looking at a raise? In other words, does this philosophy make the evaluation process play out in your interactions with your employees any differently than anywhere else? It seems like anywhere, if I give a good employee a raise for "good performance", that comes with an expectation (and a reasonable probability) of continued good performance, and if the good performance is not maintained, then that's not acceptable...
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Old 19th December 2009, 2:13 PM   #243
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In our at-will state of Kalifornia, I see examples of prospective pay to performance in the way friends manage employees. One in particular is very aggressive about paying above-average wages, both at signing and as regular raises and performance-based pay. The other side is, don't perform to the clearly stated goal and you're gone, quickly. Like he told my stbx once, 'carhill wouldn't want to work for me'. He's right, but that's why we're bf's
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Old 19th December 2009, 2:44 PM   #244
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When I was an employer, the pay structure for salaried admin/operational/technical staff, stood as follows:
  1. Annual cost of living increase.
  2. Bonus incentives for over and above productivity, which was defined by quantifiable results v. an inefficient employee.
  3. Pay increases based on upward movement.
  4. DPSP. The more profit, the more each employee shared. Retention incentive.
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Old 21st December 2009, 1:25 AM   #245
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As someone who manages over 400 people worldwide, I can assure it is very easy. Every web site captures the IP address used by every poster. So now the chat room knows that someone at XYZ company thinks their manager is an ahole - so now the person posting is acting as a representative of the company and saying that IS a terminatable offense.
Well obviously the first bit is true, that you can EASILY capture it. I can put a camera on your desk and log what you each for lunch quite EASILY too, it doesn't mean it's anything else but pointless to do that.

Which brings me to the second bit, supposedly you're a representative of the company when you're posting anonymously because someone has your IP adrdress? That makes no sense, since it would be far easier to post anonymously outside of work and include the companies public details. There's no point making an issue out of something which isn't one, that company IP address is not going to be put out into the public domain with any great affect if someone's just whining about their boss.

On a final note, I had nada time managing less than 1/5th of the people you manage. I don't see how you would want to or have time to trouble yourself with such information.

Last edited by Rudderless; 21st December 2009 at 1:58 AM..
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Old 21st December 2009, 8:13 AM   #246
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Well obviously the first bit is true, that you can EASILY capture it. I can put a camera on your desk and log what you each for lunch quite EASILY too, it doesn't mean it's anything else but pointless to do that.

Which brings me to the second bit, supposedly you're a representative of the company when you're posting anonymously because someone has your IP adrdress? That makes no sense, since it would be far easier to post anonymously outside of work and include the companies public details. There's no point making an issue out of something which isn't one, that company IP address is not going to be put out into the public domain with any great affect if someone's just whining about their boss.

On a final note, I had nada time managing less than 1/5th of the people you manage. I don't see how you would want to or have time to trouble yourself with such information.
You missed my points. First yup one could post cameras everywhere, but that would basiclaly require someone watching those cameras all the time, or reviewing them periodicaly - not very cost effective. A software product however is very cheap and fairly reliable.

Secondly it is not a question of how YOU define representing our company - it is how the company defines it. My company has posted to our internal website that if you are found to have posted negatively about the company, you will be terminated. They have basically blocked most web surfing, so in our case posting form work is not really an option - however it can and is done.

As far as time required to do this - practically zero. I get an email daily detailing the "questionable" email and internet acitivity my team has supposedly engaged in - again because of the terms/words the software was told to flag. Thankfully this has never caused me any issues - however one of my peers ended up having to contact the police and assist in an investigation into child pornography - which was discovered by this software product.
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Old 21st December 2009, 10:57 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by curiousnycgirl View Post
Secondly it is not a question of how YOU define representing our company - it is how the company defines it. My company has posted to our internal website that if you are found to have posted negatively about the company, you will be terminated. They have basically blocked most web surfing, so in our case posting form work is not really an option - however it can and is done.
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Ok, I get your point now, if it's your company policy to set such rules then yes you have to follow them. It's a little alien to me as I'm used to most of these things being down to management's discretion.
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