Neutrino Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I work for a Jap in Europe, and although European HQ and Japanese HQ are theoretically one company - I find that they are doing everything in their power to destroy our business, which is impossible for me to understand since our sales are also their sales.... About a year back - when the economical crisis started seriously effecting Europe and Japan, Jap HQ had a big discussion about how important it was to find new development, new applications, and new markets for our products, that request was also communicated to me, since I'm responsible for the European market for "my" product range. Anyway - some 8 months back a large manufacturer approached me with a completely new process, that they already tested and verified. They want to buy a machine at a cost of way over 100,000 EUR, but before they order - they would like to perform some comparative tests between their little test equipment and our industrial version. My first thought was "Hey, great - there's sometime that the Japs will be happy with, especially at these times..." but today - more than 6 months later, they still refuse to perform the tests. The tests they have to perform are pretty much cost-free and simple to perform - if I had the right test system in my lab - I could have done it in less than 1 hour. Instead f performing a test for such a large customer, they keep stalling with idiotic questions about business potential and market size - which I already answered 6 months back. The customer is getting mad because they have no idea why after more than 6 month Jap HQ would not even give an answer if they agree or not to perform a simple costless test, the customer's project has fallen behind schedule and they are (rightfully) angry. I have had it too. a couple of days back I sent the Japs an email saying if they can not give a final answer before the end of this week, I'm calling the whole thing off, and will give their direct contact information to the customer so they can explain their idiotic decision by themselves - because I refuse to be a part of it.... My manager here backs me up and sent a similar email even saying that Europe HQ will pay for the tests.... This is not the only thing : because everything sold in the EU requires CE marking, Jap HQ can no longer even give me a price estimate on systems they have been selling (that ARE CE marked) since 2001..... so I also have quotation requests piling up and customers have problems taking us seriously after having to wait for over 6 weeks for a price estimate (so not even an exact quote). I'm getting the impression that the Japs are really trying to destroy our business here in Europe - but why the hell would they do that ? After all we are selling THEIR systems.... Can anyone explain this ? Does anyone here have a similar experience ? Why the hell do they act like this and what can I do to change it ? I really really love my job, my this is honestly taking the fun out of it... Link to post Share on other sites
Blackfrost Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Based on my previous experiences managing the japanese branch of a western company - years ago - I did continuously experience one common thing over and over again: The Japanese prioritized their concern about what the product meant to Japan FIRST, everyone else was considered a secondary market. I know it seems really weird, but I've encountered this a number of times with other japanese companies I've worked with recently too. How their product does in their country can overide the logic of "You could make this work in every country and make millions more?!?! What are doing!?!" I can't explain the logic behind it (to me it appears like there isn't any) but when you see it enough times, you realize that there is something in their culture that requires this of them. Link to post Share on other sites
Citizen Erased Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I suggest if you wish to continue having a job to stop referring to them as "Japs". Link to post Share on other sites
TheLoneSock Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Yeah, I'd drop the slang names if I were you. They might not feel slang to you but they are to many people. And drop them too if they aren't performing. There are tons of people looking for jobs in this economy, world wide. Fire them and bring in someone with a clearer mind if they can't put the business first. It may be Japanese owned but you are in the EU market. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Neutrino Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 I suggest if you wish to continue having a job to stop referring to them as "Japs". There was totally no offence meant, just a long(er) word to type, plus - of course I never mention that in public as a slang.... Naturally I did not mean to offend anyone here who may be Japanese.... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Neutrino Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Lone-Sock : I can't. Those manager and engineers belong to our Japanese branch, I work for the EU branch.... Besides - that would be run-away knowledge and if this is culture related, we'd let some very talented people go just to discover the problem would repeat itself with new people.... I have had my direct contact person changed (not too many speak English and of course the culture is embedded in the language). Blackfrost : This is useful. Maybe in this way I have to find a similar manufacturer in Japan and present that as a possible customer ? Or will their perspective be completely different ? This morning my new contact person has come back with some positive answers - but you know - I'm a little afraid of their "Of course we agree, but it will be difficult" sneaky way of turning you down.... Link to post Share on other sites
Blackfrost Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Blackfrost : This is useful. Maybe in this way I have to find a similar manufacturer in Japan and present that as a possible customer ? Or will their perspective be completely different ? The products we were making were not manufactured by a Japanese owned company, but they were distributed and sold in Japan. The way this solution was handled, was that we had a branch of our company (in Japan) that would independantly test the quality of the products (even though we were testing them as well - according to their specifications) and this made them happy to sell the product there. It sounds like this might be similar to your situation? Hopefully this will help. They are a very insular people who have a very specific quality bar for everything they create or sell - and I learned as well - they possess the very broad asian cultural trait of - the japanese word eludes me - but generally means "saving face, losing face". You should read up on it a bit, as it makes dealing (or at least trying to understand) asian business people a slight bit easier. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Neutrino Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 (edited) Our products are designed and manufactured in Japan and sold world-wide. I can totally relate to what you're saying about the quality testing - they are perfectionists (this is why both my work car and private car are Japanese)... Also acceptance is difficult because not a single person dares to take responsibility and they need an eternity to reach consensus... What made me blow a fuse was the manager of our Japanese engineering saying "We don't want to perform a test unless we can guarantee the outcome" I found it insane - you test BECAUSE you don't know the outcome, if you know the outcome - why the hell test at all ? Also - they seem totally unable to improvise on an experimental set-up, which is very frustrating to me because if I had the parts here it would have been done a long time ago. As for the face-loss, this is a card I'm definitely playing !! I told them that if after so long of delaying the customer's project they will not perform a nearly cost-free test, they are welcome to do the explaining by themselves, because I refuse to. I gave a dead-line as the end of this working week..... I must admit, that dealing with administrative and sales staff (in general) is difficult for me, all my education is on exact sciences and in other areas I sometimes fall short, but at my present position - I must adapt..... Edited November 3, 2009 by Neutrino Link to post Share on other sites
MindoverMatter Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Japanese are driven by the need to be honourable. Prestige and honour and keeping face. Maybe try that angle. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Neutrino Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 (edited) Japanese are driven by the need to be honourable. Prestige and honour and keeping face. Maybe try that angle. There will be so much prestige in having to explain to a customer why they caused delays of 6 months refusing to perform a simple test... Only a couple of days until their dead-line.... I'm surprised at myself how mad this makes me, I will explode if they don't do it. Edited November 3, 2009 by Neutrino Link to post Share on other sites
Rudderless Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Is there anyway you can perform the tests independently and sell them to the manufacturer? Surely there's a business opportunity here? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Neutrino Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Is there anyway you can perform the tests independently and sell them to the manufacturer? Surely there's a business opportunity here? I wish I could. For the future I would like to see if I could construct a smaller test-system in my lab.... The main problem is : my previous contact person had no scientific knowledge whatsoever, and I suspect was not completely honest about his knowledge of English. Many times, also on other subjects, I realized from his response that he did not read or understand much of what I wrote or said. This was combined with a total lack of interest in the European market in general (and maybe my contact person was not the only one - but only the interface of some others behind him). This dragged on for months until I pushed his manager enough to replace him, and then more months until they found a more suitable person, not only with the language skills - but the right attitude. Now we are stuck with accumulated delays of about 6 months, the customer is waiting for a final answer this week and to me this is the make-it or break-it point. I makes me really mad because this is MY customer and I end up taking the heat for the damn idiots while I did everything in my power to push this project along. Besides this would be huge business here and I really want it to my name and for our company - especially at these times. It is not even about scoring a damn bonus (because I don't care much for that), but about my professional ego..... This is probably the real reason I'm so mad..... Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 There will be so much prestige in having to explain to a customer why they caused delays of 6 months refusing to perform a simple test... Only a couple of days until their dead-line.... I'm surprised at myself how mad this makes me, I will explode if they don't do it. You think they'll even respond? Remember, the Japanese have no word for the word 'No'.... They prevaricate and soften the blow, but what they were essentially telling you by stating that they wouldn't test unless there was a favourable outcome, was - 'no'. They will simply imagine the situation does not exist. And for them, it doesn't, because it's not something they're dealing with for any personal domestic advantage. Japan has had a tough time lately, financially. Their Directors commit suicide if they suffer disgrace, remember. So a guarantee of success is what they must have. Or else, their directors will lose face in a far greater way. Domo Arigato. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Neutrino Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 Thanks for the input - it was very useful !! I addressed the economical situation in Japan, I addressed the doubts I had - whether any new development presented to them would be rejected in this manner and what this would mean for our collective as a company. By pure chance I came across a youtube clip showing products and large logo of this (European) customer at a famous place in Tokyo.... The management became interested. It turned out that at a certain stage their questions became genuine, and not just "saying no without saying no" - after so many months in this dance - I no longer noticed the difference, and from their side - they said "We can not duplicate the process", but actually meant to say "We don't know how to duplicate the process, please teach us".... So the miscommunication was from both sides.... Now they are interested not in performing an improvised test - but performing a thorough research... I have to get to work on it now... It will not be easy - but difficult does not mean impossible !! Link to post Share on other sites
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