OpenBook Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 This question is for anyone who's been laid-off recently, or whose company has been laying off people. Have you noticed that the people getting laid-off are usually older folks over 40? Reason why I ask... I unfortunately have first-hand personal experience with a recent layoff. At an orientation I attended for laid-off people at a job search/career consulting firm, the room was packed. There were a total of 42 people there, and I guessed maybe 4 of them were under 40... and another 5 were under 50. The good majority of these people looked close to retirement age. Is anyone besides me concerned about age discrimination in losing (or finding) a job? Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Older employees tend to be highly compensated and also tend to be in middle management positions, which is where a lot of fat is. It's normal that those positions get cut. Link to post Share on other sites
WTRanger Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Unless the company has hired someone to replace you who was much younger, the age discrimination laws do not help you on a layoff. Such as if the company let you go, then hired someone much younger and a substantially reduced salary to do the exact same job you did. You'd probably have a case there. I'm 28 and was recently laid off so it's not just the 40 somethings. The thing with the unemployment meetings is that it really is the 40 and 50 crowd because I'm betting most of those people were at their company for 10-20 plus years. Job searching is so foreign to them, especially now in the digital age. I was at my place of work for 6 years but thankfully I still remember, barely, what it was like searching for jobs after I graduated college. So I'm not totally lost. Link to post Share on other sites
BoredPerson Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 For recruitment and when hiring for entry level positions I think it is important not to desriminate based on age. When laying off workers I think it is perfectly valid to fire the oldies. Link to post Share on other sites
wuggle Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 When laying off workers I think it is perfectly valid to fire the oldies. Old people, check. Can't be many groups in society left that you don't hate BP, what are you going to do when you run out and find that you really do hate everyone and everything ? look inward ? Link to post Share on other sites
BoredPerson Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Old people, check. Can't be many groups in society left that you don't hate BP, what are you going to do when you run out and find that you really do hate everyone and everything ? look inward ? I did not say that I hate old people. I said that I think it is fair to lay them off. Old people tend to be selfish and forget that 1) the reason mostly old people are getting laid off is because it is mostly old people that are employed. 2) The younger staff are in low paid support positions. Such as the young women they employ as admins and receptionists, which have already been cut to the bone. 3) The handful of young people employed at the company are considered the future of the company and they can't be laid off. If it was an even split of young and old in professional jobs I'd tend to agree. However it is not, and I specified that old people should not be descriminated against when applying for entry level jobs or other jobs. Link to post Share on other sites
BoredPerson Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Unless the company has hired someone to replace you who was much younger, the age discrimination laws do not help you on a layoff. Such as if the company let you go, then hired someone much younger and a substantially reduced salary to do the exact same job you did. You'd probably have a case there. I'm 28 and was recently laid off so it's not just the 40 somethings. The thing with the unemployment meetings is that it really is the 40 and 50 crowd because I'm betting most of those people were at their company for 10-20 plus years. Job searching is so foreign to them, especially now in the digital age. I was at my place of work for 6 years but thankfully I still remember, barely, what it was like searching for jobs after I graduated college. So I'm not totally lost. I tend to think most young people are off the radar working crappy jobs. They don't complain because it is normal to them and they feel that they're not entitled to more. They hope in vain that they might have a life similar to the oldies but they don't expect it. The oldies are more entitled and when they lose their 100k a year job then something must not be right is how they think. It is an outrage and unfair that they aren't earning 100k anymore. The young person just sits quietly and makes the food for the fat, selfish, old person. That is modern America for you. Link to post Share on other sites
anne1707 Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Old people can spell discriminate Link to post Share on other sites
BoredPerson Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Old people can spell discriminate Typical old person. Can't address any of my arguments so your resort to attacking minor spelling errors. Very bad form. Link to post Share on other sites
anne1707 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Typical old person with a successful career, happy relationship, attractive, healthy, liked by others,.... Never mind Bored - may be you will be an old person one day Link to post Share on other sites
BoredPerson Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Typical old person with a successful career, happy relationship, attractive, healthy, liked by others,.... Never mind Bored - may be you will be an old person one day Lets be reasonable here. There is no reason for a young person like myself to feel any sort of sympathy towards old people. They have treated us very badly. While I will show normal human compassion to anyone who is laid off when old people specify themselves as victims I rightly view that claim with scepticism. Aside from making it difficult for us to start careers partly because they often refused to train young people and view us with hostility they are also the group that are the rudest customers. Old people have given me a very hard time. I don't exactly view it as a tragedy that a few of them will have to take low paid service jobs for the little while. When the economy picks back up they'll get their $100 an hour jobs back.. in no time. I guess my posts are aimed at a certain type of old person. Who I am sure the OP is referring to because I don't know of many poor, working or middle class people that have the time or money to attend unemployment seminiars. Link to post Share on other sites
Author OpenBook Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 I guess my posts are aimed at a certain type of old person. Who I am sure the OP is referring to because I don't know of many poor, working or middle class people that have the time or money to attend unemployment seminiars. These seminars are being paid for by the companies that are laying these people off. It's part of the severance package, which incidentally also includes a 30- or 60-day notice before your actual last day. I suspect they are so generous about it because they don't want to get sued. Companies never invest money in anything unless it's good for the company somehow. They don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts. Link to post Share on other sites
Author OpenBook Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 And by the way, I appreciate all the responses. Every one of them!! Lots of valuable insight about stuff I've never considered before. Link to post Share on other sites
BoredPerson Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 These seminars are being paid for by the companies that are laying these people off. It's part of the severance package, which incidentally also includes a 30- or 60-day notice before your actual last day. I suspect they are so generous about it because they don't want to get sued. Companies never invest money in anything unless it's good for the company somehow. They don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts. Yeah, the truck driver or the payroll clerk would hardly have a company paying for that ! Laid off retail workers ? Plumbers ? Doubtful, sounds like a thing for professionals. Maybe they only send the old people to these seminars. The young people, once more, are simply forgotten. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Obviously this company isn't Unionized. Most older folks who have senority aren't the ones being let go. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 If you think you have been discriminated against and you are over 40 then I would take a look at this.. http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/discrimination/agedisc.htm The age discrimination act of 1967 protects anybody over the age of 40 and doesn't protect the young ones Link to post Share on other sites
Star Gazer Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Older employees tend to be highly compensated and also tend to be in middle management positions, which is where a lot of fat is. It's normal that those positions get cut. Precisely. Layoffs are carried out to save money, particularly within management. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I tend to think most young people are off the radar working crappy jobs. They don't complain because it is normal to them and they feel that they're not entitled to more. They hope in vain that they might have a life similar to the oldies but they don't expect it. The oldies are more entitled and when they lose their 100k a year job then something must not be right is how they think. It is an outrage and unfair that they aren't earning 100k anymore. The young person just sits quietly and makes the food for the fat, selfish, old person. That is modern America for you. hahaha actually it is the younger ones that have that sense of entitlement.. you know the one that they feel they should be making 80k right out of college without having to put any time or effort into their career Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 When laying off workers I think it is perfectly valid to fire the oldies. It isn't actually... Link to post Share on other sites
Star Gazer Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 If you think you have been discriminated against and you are over 40 then I would take a look at this.. http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/discrimination/agedisc.htm The age discrimination act of 1967 protects anybody over the age of 40 and doesn't protect the young ones Careful. The Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA) protects certain applicants and employees 40 years of age and older from discrimination on the basis of age in hiring, promotion, discharge, compensation, or terms, conditions or privileges of employment. You have to prove a causal nexus, which is pretty tough to prove. In these times, where company's are trying to save a dime here, and a dime there, cutting the highest paid salaries will be deemed a sufficient legitimate, nondiscriminatory reason for selecting them for layoff. The common denominator of age is merely a coincidence. Link to post Share on other sites
WTRanger Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 In a way these middle managers that were laid off yet given 6 months to a year pay as a severance package should consider themselves lucky. I was given 2 hour notice and no severance package (other than my legally owed vacation time) and was told to get on my merry way and thanks for my 6 years. In fact two other people that were laid off with me had 21 and 16 years at that company and they were also given no severance package. Which is interesting since they did it at the start of the year when generally no one had any vacation time accrued so they in turn got off pretty free and clear. Did I mention they upped the extra week of vacation accrual and 401k vesting to 7 years the week before I was laid off? If you got any form of severance package, you should be so lucky. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 In these times, where company's are trying to save a dime here, and a dime there, cutting the highest paid salaries will be deemed a sufficient legitimate, nondiscriminatory reason for selecting them for layoff. The common denominator of age is merely a coincidence. Yeah.. I guess a company can get rid of just about anybody.. young or old during times of crisis , like the times many companies are in today.. and I think you are right about the coincidence.. interesting point.. it takes years to make a good wage and then you have a target on your back for cutbacks.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author OpenBook Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 I personally don't feel discriminated against, as my company is liquidating and everybody at the office will be out of a job within a year. And I know I'm extremely lucky for the severance; I know many others who got little or nothing at other companies. It was just a shock to me, the disproportionate number of older folks I saw at the seminar... and I wonder if I will end up in their shoes sometime in the (near) future. Is this what retirement looks like?? One thing has become crystal-clear to all of us at the seminar... it doesn't pay to build longevity at a company anymore. In fact, it can work against you, as potential employers might fear that you have a rigid mindset, stuck in that company's ways. Link to post Share on other sites
BoredPerson Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Obviously this company isn't Unionized. Most older folks who have senority aren't the ones being let go. Exactly, as always it is the young people that are suffering the most. Link to post Share on other sites
Mary3 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 BP : Do you think when you are an old person you will be wearing Depends Underpants ? Link to post Share on other sites
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