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Take out your piercings, damn it!


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Old 16th November 2007, 11:26 AM   #121
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i have a tongue piercing. i've taken it out for every job interview i've gone to since getting it. if the place i worked didn't allow visible piercings, i wouldn't wear it; if that meant it closed up, so be it. i am a receptionist, i deal with people on the phone as well as face-to-face.

after being hired i didn't wear the ring until i was sure that i could. it took 6 months before the other receptionists that i worked with noticed. it took closer to 1.5 years before the higher ups noticed, and that was only b/c i was laughing uncontrollably at one point during a staff meeting.

when i got my tongue pierced i asked them to place it as far back as they could, so it would be less visible.

i work in a very conservative christian environment, our office manager has visible tat's. one on her inner wrist, one on her neck, one on her ankle. i have 2 tats, both were placed in locations that are covered up unless i want them to be uncovered. i debated long and hard over the placement of them, so i wouldn't have to worry about them showing to someone i didn't want to see them.

at the same time, since the aforementioned job candidate meet every other criteria, i don't see why telling her the policy on piercings and allowing her to make a decision if she wanted to take it out or not wasn't extended.
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Old 16th November 2007, 5:25 PM   #122
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Oh my goodness! To quote Curmudgeon, "...tats and piercings are just another fad. They're no different than [incidentally, the correct phrase in American English is "different FROM" --sedg] beehive hairdos, poddle skirts, polyester leisure suits, powdered wigs, ponytails on men, goatees or afros. In time they'll be left behind for something newer and more in vogue. Unfortunately, the tats can't be packed away in the attic to only be brought out for halloween a generation later and laughed at like the rest."

As a woman who has been tattooing her body for almost 20 years now and has never regretted one single mark or viewed it as a fad for one moment, I am going to assume that you're not making such a statement without having read bmezine.com, Armando F. Favazza's "Bodies Under Siege," and the Re/Search volume "Modern Primitives" -- yes? Because otherwise this post would be highly offensive and uninformed. I have a book about coping with mental illness via body modification coming out with W.W. Norton in 2009; I would assume that since you know so much about the subject matter, you'll want to read mine as well.
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Old 16th November 2007, 5:31 PM   #123
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And to quote Racquel Collette, "No offense, the whole multiple piercings and tattooed bodies just looks dirty and gross."

I would ask in this case that if people really want to enter into this discussion, you consider that there are people reading this and willing to talk to you if you do not insult them. Can you define "dirty" and "gross" outside of your own personal standards, or are you simply making sweeping generalizations? How does my having ink on my skin make me dirty? I shower twice a day. How does it make me gross? I'm not blowing my nose on you or touching you and spreading pathogens or anything. Let's come up with useful definitions. Where I originally come from (the rural South), there are people who will tell you that being Mexican makes you look dirty and gross. Let's think before we type, yeah?
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Old 19th November 2007, 4:40 PM   #124
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So many things I want to reply to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trialbyfire View Post
You lost me. OB has a piercing which has a cultural aspect to it. We have a multi-cultural acceptance policy in Canada where if it's discreet, it's not an issue. This is not pure aesthetics. Having said that, a member of the Sikh community will not be hired, if he chooses to wear a ceremonial dagger. It endangers everyone, cultural aspect or not.
I don't recall seeing where they are not allowed to wear them in a work environment. The big lawsuit had to do with the school. And the Supreme Court ruled that the Sikh kid was allowed to wear his ceremonial dagger to school. I totally disagreed with this ruling. So they can't wear them on a plane, but it's okay for a 20 cm blade to be worn to school.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trialbyfire View Post
I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. It would leave the door wide open for a civil suit.
20 years ago I argued that "you hired me with 5 earrings, I will work wearing 5 earrings." And, for the record, I still wear all 5 as a business professional today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racquel Colette View Post
No offense, the whole multiple piercings and tattooed bodies just looks dirty and gross.
Not sure what your point was? KittenMoon already says she doesn't have tats or multiple piercings... And I don't believe that I look either dirty or gross.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovesparis View Post
i have a tongue piercing. i've taken it out for every job interview i've gone to since getting it. if the place i worked didn't allow visible piercings, i wouldn't wear it; if that meant it closed up, so be it. i am a receptionist, i deal with people on the phone as well as face-to-face.
I wondered about that....I was led to believe that tongue piercings begin to heal almost immediately as it is a muscle and not a normal piercing.

With this culture of piercing and tats, I have tried to ensure that my kids keep their futures in perspective. I remind them of the professionalism, or lack of it when it comes to visible tattoos, and facial piercings. That being said, I have no problem with some piercings, though I have never been a fan of the eyebrow one.

I attempt to consider qualifications ahead of appearance. I hired a long haired guy with an earring once and that almost sent my boss through the roof...he turned out to be one of our best employees. And he liked him once he put aside his preconceived notions about guys with long hair and got to know him.

I don't know...just doesn't seem like we've made much progress in terms of tolerance and accepting people on merit rather than appearances. Don't get me wrong, I conform to the image my employer wants portrayed (most of the time) and I understand the corporate culture. I just think it is limiting in certain aspects.

Last edited by OceanBlue; 19th November 2007 at 4:48 PM..
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Old 19th November 2007, 4:51 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanBlue View Post
I don't recall seeing where they are not allowed to wear them in a work environment. The big lawsuit had to do with the school. And the Supreme Court ruled that the Sikh kid was allowed to wear his ceremonial dagger to school. I totally disagreed with this ruling. So they can't wear them on a plane, but it's okay for a 20 cm blade to be worn to school.
My responses were based on hiring practices. You don't need to explain why you don't hire someone. You simply don't hire them.

Quote:
20 years ago I argued that "you hired me with 5 earrings, I will work wearing 5 earrings." And, for the record, I still wear all 5 as a business professional today.
Same issue as above. The employer hires as they see fit. If there's something they don't like, you won't get hired. It's up to you to decide how far you want to mess with your chances of getting hired, based on ideals.
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Old 19th November 2007, 5:36 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KittenMoon View Post
If she dressed, spoke, and acted professionally, what's the difference?
You can't dress, speak, and act professionally when you already look like a bum who snorted cocaine until 5 AM, then woke up and came to work. I am totally into freedom of expression and behavior, as long as it doesn't hurt others, but I do understand the difference between modesty and individuality When you run a gallery, look like a grotesque medieval mascot if you want. But if you're in the corporate world at a non-creative position, your only card to play on is - decency and reliability.

Imagine a guy who is tattooed all over, has bleached hair, and looks like a rock-star-pot-head. Now imagine that you're trying to invest $10,000,000 in buying a company and you need an accountant to estimate the value of the given company. Would you trust this guy? Or would you prefer to have a regular, suit-and-tie kinda guy who looks like an intelligent mamma's boy?

Yes, a lot of it is mere prejudice. But at least at the beginning you should stick to the rules. You can make your own once you're accomplished.
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Old 19th November 2007, 5:47 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blind_otter View Post
The thing that burns me is that this was a great candidate for the position in every other way. Her experience was spot-on and she spoke well and carried herself well. She seemed like a good choice and she had to go and ruin it with a pierced tongue wagging all about. Grrrr. I hate answering phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RecordProducer View Post
You can't dress, speak, and act professionally when you already look like a bum who snorted cocaine until 5 AM, then woke up and came to work. I am totally into freedom of expression and behavior, as long as it doesn't hurt others, but I do understand the difference between modesty and individuality When you run a gallery, look like a grotesque medieval mascot if you want. But if you're in the corporate world at a non-creative position, your only card to play on is - decency and reliability.
Wow - maybe read B_O's description of her again...
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Old 19th November 2007, 6:22 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by OceanBlue View Post
Wow - maybe read B_O's description of her again...
I know how to read. I also know how to read between the lines.
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Old 19th November 2007, 6:26 PM   #129
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WEll IMO if the managing partner noticed right off the bat the piercing must have been very obvious.
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Old 19th November 2007, 6:51 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanBlue View Post
I don't recall seeing where they are not allowed to wear them in a work environment. The big lawsuit had to do with the school. And the Supreme Court ruled that the Sikh kid was allowed to wear his ceremonial dagger to school. I totally disagreed with this ruling. So they can't wear them on a plane, but it's okay for a 20 cm blade to be worn to school.
The Supreme Court allowed the appeal and reinstated the Superior Court's decision (that the item in question could be worn under certain conditions). The claimant/student was fine with these restrictions and never challenged them. This became an issue only after the school board imposed a complete ban on kirpans.

Also, if one were to have a piercing or tattoo, it is HIGHLY unlikely that an employer would have a leg to stand on (in terms of hiring explicit practices). However, for one to be protected under the Charter, there would have to be a government actor. Private companies may have more of a case as they'd go through local human rights legislation. Again, I don't see there being a case when it comes to piercings/tattoos.
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Last edited by Ocean-Blue; 19th November 2007 at 6:54 PM..
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Old 22nd November 2007, 3:19 PM   #131
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I wasn't directing it to Kitten Moon herself, just pointing out why employers won't hire people who have multiple piercings and tattoos, because they do look dirty and gross. It's not an attractive look, it's gross. Businesses don't want gross and dirty looking people working for them. So I was just giving the reasoning behind all that.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 7:17 PM   #132
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Oh, yes, Canada is so much more open and accepting....as long as the piercings and tattoos are tasteful and out of sight, it's cool in Canada! LOLOL
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Old 23rd November 2007, 10:57 AM   #133
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Your statement, "because they DO look dirty and gross," does not clarify the two things on which I asked for clarification: according to whose definition? And, how can ink under someone's skin make them "dirty?" According to what precedent does ink in one's skin constitute dirt? Is there any dirt in the ingredients in tattoo ink? Well, there's pigment, which is not dirt, and then there are the ingredients commonly found in the carrier (liquid) part of the ink:
  • ethyl alcohol (ethanol)
  • purified water
  • witch hazel
  • propylene glycol
  • glycerine (glycerol)
I do not see "dirt" listed among them; in fact, alcohol and witch hazel are sometimes used to remove dirt from the skin!

And if a tattooed person is sitting right across a desk from you, or standing right beside you, and you can't smell them, isn't your assumption that they're "dirty" automatically negated? I just stepped out of the shower and smell like lavender soap at the moment, but yup, I'm still tattooed. So am I dirty? And if I give no signs of being dirty, and in fact smell nice and wear clean clothing, do I not negate your assumption? If you persist in believing someone is dirty when there is no dirt on them, is that not your problem rather than theirs?

According to dictionary.com, one of the ten definitions of "gross," and the one I feel most closely correlates to your contextual usage, is: "Slang. extremely objectionable, offensive, or disgusting: He wore an outfit that was absolutely gross." So then we must define: in what specific ways, and to what specific people, are tattoos objectionable, offensive, or disgusting -- to the EXTREME? Is your personal objection enough to qualify? I don't find tattoos objectionable, so that's one person's opinion cancelled out, right there. Can you point me to a definitive study that shows that tattoos are objectionable to a majority of citizens of the earth, or at least the Western world? Are you actually OFFENDED by others' tattoos, and can you show me a definitive study that proves tattoos are actually offending a majority of people on a daily basis? I'd wager more people simply don't care what others do with their skin than waste the time being offended. Disgusting: please point to similar data.

Thus, a black-and-white statement like "because they do," is therefore useless unless backed up by clear data. Point me to the concrete facts that prove, indisputably, that this is anything but your opinion, and I will continue this discussion with you. Otherwise, you're just stating what YOU think, which is by no means definitive, and by no means encompassing of what large groups of others think.

Last edited by sedgwick; 23rd November 2007 at 11:05 AM..
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