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Want to believe in God but can't


Spirituality & Religious Beliefs Contemplate your place and purpose in the universe.

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Old 10th January 2018, 1:40 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by neurotibot View Post
Why believing in something that lacks evidence?

And if you could prove Yahweh's existence, why worship Him? The deity of the Bible is a horrific monster. What sort of deity gives you logic, only to demand faith in the illogical upon pain of eternal damnation?
god is not a horrific monster he gave us agency to choose to have faith..and he gave us the opportunity to allow hope to grow in us and through us to be his hands to help others feel that hope...........he could also if he chose to do so he could translate anyone into a jellyfish and then allow that someone to be eaten alive by a cephalopod (bottom first to be eaten) so that a brain registers hey im being eaten alive this is going to suck......

and so therefore effectively erasing our very existence....never to be remembered or thought of..........yet he doesnt do this jellyfish translation/transfiguration..


instead he loves us according to the bible..he asks us to love him back....is that hard or monstrous a father wanting love and trust from his kids.....hard to believe....i dont think so.......


he lets you and I live and feel and choose not to believe or believe and follow his ways and remain human and gave his son for all our sins so that we might have joy in the eternities........i would call him a just god for that reason....


i thankfully have not been translated to a jellyfish yet......even though i probably.....deserved it at one time or another..i thank him everyday for giving me his mercy and sometimes i even feel him smiling back...with warmth in my heart...thats my proof.....of an all powerful father god who loves..he exists to be all there is and ever was.....

ps i edited this post to write "he exists to be all there is and ever was" ..because i was prompted to write it......and i googled it...lol and what came up was philosophy on the existence of god...pretty cool huh..google believes in god.......deb
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in the ache of night,luminous prayers take fragile flight,
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there exists hope and love for peace begins...deb

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Old 10th January 2018, 9:26 PM   #332
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Was going to create a new thread ..... but seeing as BC said he is ok with the discussion will reply here.

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If we understand and truly follow Jesus’ teachings and admonishments, then we can free ourselves from the cycle of suffering, death and rebirth. There are unascended Beings and Ascended Beings. Any of the latter can, of course, always ‘fall’ again – as Lucifer did – but we are still so far below that (level of consciousness) that it need not be a concern at this point.
Yep agree - I personally think the understanding part really isn't that hard. Jesus law is pretty basic. Its that pesky "following" bit that is always the trickiest Still this life is pretty amazing if we live it right. Life and indeed even death is only suffering - if we make it so - and don't have an understanding of god - how we are all part of god and thus all (potentially) eternal.

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You and I have a very different understanding of the ‘new wine and wineskins’ parable. If you want to take it as you no longer needing to personally balance your own negative Karma, then that is your free-will spiritual decision to make.
Always happy to hear alternative interpretations so please do share yours On the Karma portion - I think we discussed this pretty extensively - I definitely agree we reap what we sow. Compared to Buddhism however my understanding of Karma is perhaps a little more intelligent then that kind of mechanical impersonal model it advocates for. I see their being an intelligence\judge on this plane who dispenses resulting karma based not only on our actions .... but also our level of knowledge and what we "need" to progress. In line with "That servant who knows his master’s will but does not get ready or follow his instructions will be beaten with many blows. But the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows."

I also believe there now exists the ability for that judge\overseer of this physical realm we exist on (the sun of man \ son of god) to intercede and forgive sin. That meaning to remove the consequences of negative karma. So I think we are really on the same page aside from that one point .... I simply advocate that Jesus life offered something beyond pure personal karma in line with:

Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins - so I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.”

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My personal motto is, “I don’t know what I don’t know.” It helps to keep me humble, and stops me from getting into spiritual pride and arrogance of thinking that I already know what is and is not spiritually true;

As TheFinalWord pointed out, if you start off with a false premise for your basic ‘truth’, then you cannot help but be misled and misguided from there; you cannot have true Christ Discernment, and thus you will not be able to properly/accurately assess who, IN THE EYE OF GOD, is and is not producing ‘good fruit’.
I agree that understanding the deeper layers of how god and life functions can be difficult to discern and understand thus agree its always good to remain humble and open to knew teachings .... but is it really that hard to discern good fruit from bad fruit ? That much I think if you simply take time to observe someone is usually pretty easy. What is a person producing ? What is the motivation for their actions ? And yes people can and do "fake" good intentions ..... but a tree that does not produce good food can be easily spotted if you simply pay attention. You already mentioned the parable of the cursed fig and Jesus driving people from the temple earlier. Discerning good fruit - from the fake appearance of good actions is to me what that entire parable was about.

Jesus visits the temple in Juruselem (from a distance something that would appear like "good fruit" and be evidence of people living a good life) except when he arrives to inspect it he finds the temple filled with people simply using it as a place to make money. He thus drives them out of the temple ...... in the exact same passage on the way to that temple he sees a fig tree that from a distance looks like it is thriving and producing good fruit ..... but when he arrives at the fig to inspect it he finds that it is completely barren and so curses it. I feel good fruit and bad fruit aren't very hard to differentiate if we simply look closely and pay attention to what people are actually doing.

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Old 11th January 2018, 1:27 PM   #333
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.... but is it really that hard to discern good fruit from bad fruit ?
Well...Jesus himself warned that it is: “Look, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves; therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. But beware of men; for they will hand you over to their councils and flog you in their synagogues.”

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...the parable of the cursed fig and Jesus driving people from the temple...
The parables also have multiple levels of Instruction or Teachings. Each of the above are also meant to inspire those who are willing, to look at and question Jesus’ reactions when he was faced with these two situations.

The fig tree could only have been barren because of some natural law or law of Nature – either the entire physical tree was rotted out, or it was just out of season for figs in that region. Either way, was it a mature reaction to get angry and curse the physical tree? (I’ve checked a number of versions of the Bible, and can’t find any reference to the tree ‘from a distance looking like it is thriving’. In any case, the ‘good fruit’ that we are meant to produce and watch out for in others, is of a spiritual nature and not about physical fruit.)

Similarly, did Jesus’ angry outburst at the people in the temple live up to and demonstrate his own teachings against such behaviour? “Be as innocent [harmless] as doves.”

With reference to the ‘new wine and wineskins’ parable, to explore that further in this thread would, I think, end up taking us too far off topic. If you want to start your own thread about it, based on the relevant paragraphs in your Post #324, I’ll be happy to contribute there.

As you say, it depends on one’s spiritual knowledge and wisdom. However, it also depends on our sense of spiritual identity and our own self-image, and how invested we are in maintaining that. For example, some people can’t get out of seeing themselves as ‘sinners’ to such an extent that they are basically powerless and helpless to attain for themselves their own redemption and salvation.

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(the sun of man \ son of god) to intercede and forgive sin. That meaning to remove the consequences of negative karma. So I think we are really on the same page aside from that one point .... I simply advocate that Jesus life offered something beyond pure personal karma in line with:

...I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins - so I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.”
The problem that I have with this view is that it specifically completely ignores Jesus’ own description of himself and how we should see him, and, in so doing, one ends up with an idolatrous version, image or concept of Jesus Christ by elevating the human life of Jesus – instead of recognizing, acknowledging and praising Christ, the Christ Consciousness which the human Being Jesus attained while he was embodied on Earth.

You can also interpret it as Jesus saying, “With the Power of God working through my Christ Mind – and as long as I have that – I can now help you to be free from the consequences of your own prior spiritual errors and mistakes.”

It does not negate or ‘cancel out’ the negative Karma, it actually just properly transmutes it. We can each today, right now, invoke or Call upon Christ (the Universal Christ Consciousness), to start transmuting all the impurities and negative vibrations and Energies that make up our own Karma. The difference is that because we have not yet attained our own personal Christhood, our results will not be instantaneously visible on the physical plane, like Jesus’ results were. (People get discouraged after doing this for months or years without any visible-physical results, but this is only due to our own wrong understanding of how the universe works, the different levels of creation, Spiritual Cycles, etc., etc.)

The true, spiritual power is from God through Christ. Jesus knew that he was a Christed Being and he also knew that he was not created to be the only one. He gave us this message when he said: Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever believes in Christ, the Christ Consciousness will also do the works that I with my Christ Mind, in the Christ Consciousness am doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. To do these and greater things, a human Being must surrender to God by trading in all lesser-lower will and desires and replacing it with God’s Will. (“Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.”)


Justanaverageguy, I agree with you that we are on the same page on many points. It is refreshing to be able to discuss honestly and openly – also with TheFinalWord and all other contributors – and, personally, I like being challenged on my current thoughts, beliefs and opinions so that I can get clear on them, myself. .
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Old 12th January 2018, 4:53 AM   #334
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Justanaverageguy, I agree with you that we are on the same page on many points. It is refreshing to be able to discuss honestly and openly – also with TheFinalWord and all other contributors – and, personally, I like being challenged on my current thoughts, beliefs and opinions so that I can get clear on them, myself. .
Yes great exactly how I feel and personally within my close friends I don't have many that are deeply spiritually inclined so really appreciate the dialogue. When you find others who have deep interest in the topic and you can share and even challenge each other's views in an open, honest and cordial way ..... Everyone gains. We get to examine our own views and refine and express them clearly - then consider those new perspectives of others and then usually merge them together into something more very grateful for the back and forth and putting up with my long winded replies Also I tend to state my view pretty directly - hope it doesn't come across the wrong way - I say what I think - but no requirement from your side to agree so feel free to disagree or disregard.

From my side I think the major difference in our views boils down to the question Jesus posed ..... "Who do men say that I am?"

I think from your posts you view him as a "normal man" with a soul equivalent to our own who refined himself in the human realm an eventually grew to a level where he embodied god.

I respect and understand that view but I personally have a different view. Whilst I think that is the path we must follow I don't think Jesus was an ordinary man who followed this path. I see his soul as being that of the "master" who not only oversee's this realm but provides the energy for it to exist. Quite literally I see him as the "Sun" of man who descended from heaven and incarnated in a human body. He showed the potential we can aspire to - but still he is the master - we are as John the Baptist put it the student who is not even fit to undo the buckle on his sandles. I find his dialogue regarding John the baptist to be quite revealing on this topic where he says John is the "greatest man born of a woman but he would be the least of those in heaven". For me he clearly indicates he was not created the same way we were.

From my perspective the reason I see him saying we can do greater deads then him .... Is because his spirit is ascending and we live within him. God is the tree - Jesus (if your Hindu you might call him Ram) is the branch and we are the tiny saplings growing off that branch.

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The parables also have multiple levels of Instruction or Teachings. Each of the above are also meant to inspire those who are willing, to look at and question Jesus’ reactions when he was faced with these two situations.

The fig tree could only have been barren because of some natural law or law of Nature – either the entire physical tree was rotted out, or it was just out of season for figs in that region. Either way, was it a mature reaction to get angry and curse the physical tree? (I’ve checked a number of versions of the Bible, and can’t find any reference to the tree ‘from a distance looking like it is thriving’. In any case, the ‘good fruit’ that we are meant to produce and watch out for in others, is of a spiritual nature and not about physical fruit.)

Similarly, did Jesus’ angry outburst at the people in the temple live up to and demonstrate his own teachings against such behaviour? “Be as innocent [harmless] as doves.”
Agree that parables most often have multi layered meaning ..... And for me the parable of the tree - tree of life - true vine and producing good fruit is probably Jesus most frequently referenced parable. The fig tree is also used explicitly multiple times in parables within this context. To think here cursing a fig because it did not produce fruit was an accidental or he lost his temper and that this physical embodyment of that parable was just a mistake included in his teachings ..... Just doesnt make sense or line up with the context of his teaching as a whole for me personally.

Jesus explicitly states in his teachings that an unproductive tree will be "hewn down" or "thrown into the fire". He also explicitly states that continued immoral action will be "rebuked" and "reproved". Yes he cautions us against judging others when we remain imperfect .... but asserts directly that he stands in judgement of man and immoral action will be reproved and if repentence is not forthcoming eventually the consequences will be dire. I see the temple action as simply following in line with reproving incorrect action.

Regarding "it not being the season for figs" I always simply took this to mean .... There is no off season for producing good fruit. Its our duty to always be working towards producing in line with Tim 4:2 "Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage" A little bit like the Jack Johnson song - he thought that singing on Sunday was going to save his soul now that Saturday was gone ..... it really doesn't work like that. For humans its always the season for good fruit.

Regarding the fruit being of a "spiritual nature" .... Yes sure ..... but we exist in physical form. Any physical action we take has a spiritual nature to it. eg: If I sacrifice my time and money to feed the poor - that action has a spiritual (qualitative) nature to it but it takes on physical form and has physical consequences (karma) whuch can be clearly seen: It relieves others hunger and suffering. (clearly good fruit). In Hindu - Buddhist - Vedic teaching they use the word "karmaphala" meaning fruit of action. The fig tree is used repeatidly by Jesus as a metaphorical representation of what people are producing and here in the same passage he directly links the parable of the fig with the physical reality of people's behaviour and actions.

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You can also interpret it as Jesus saying, “With the Power of God working through my Christ Mind – and as long as I have that – I can now help you to be free from the consequences of your own prior spiritual errors and mistakes.”

It does not negate or ‘cancel out’ the negative Karma, it actually just properly transmutes it. We can each today, right now, invoke or Call upon Christ (the Universal Christ Consciousness), to start transmuting all the impurities and negative vibrations and Energies that make up our own Karma. The difference is that because we have not yet attained our own personal Christhood, our results will not be instantaneously visible on the physical plane, like Jesus’ results were. (People get discouraged after doing this for months or years without any visible-physical results, but this is only due to our own wrong understanding of how the universe works, the different levels of creation, Spiritual Cycles, etc., etc.) The true, spiritual power is from God through Christ. Jesus knew that he was a Christed Being and he also knew that he was not created to be the only one.
Sure I agree with this - but what is the difference between removing negative karma and transmuting negative karma ? To me - same same - just a play on words. Negative Karma manifests as physical circumstances. Might be going to jail, might be serious health issues, might be emotional pain, anger, regret etc. If you heal or remove these - transmute them - you've removed the negative karma. God - Jesus - can intervene and bestow his spirit to do this - I had this happen to me. This is what I think Jesus offered. Thats all I'm saying. Yes we can work to remove them ..... but if you believe and turn to him the sun of man can bestow his own energy to heal you. Also once we get in to a certain level of "debt" caused by negative karma and the physical consequences take a huge toll on our physical and emotional state - its incredibly difficult to reverse this. Go ask someone in a car crash or with sever emotional trauma to heal themselves and see how that goes.

Jesus can give you a reprieve from the negative physical consequence in order that you might then be able (and perhaps more importantly motivated) to "repay the red in your ledger" so to speak.

Luke 7:41 "Two people owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii,[a] and the other fifty. 42 Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he forgave the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?”

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Old 12th January 2018, 5:01 PM   #335
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I think from your posts you view him as a "normal man" with a soul equivalent to our own who refined himself in the human realm an eventually grew to a level where he embodied god.
Justanaverageguy, I am not sure how you are arriving at your interpretation/conclusion on that because I have specifically said that I do NOT see Jesus as ever having embodied God on Earth (see my Post #303). The material realm does not have the higher frequencies and Energies to be able to contain, support or ‘bear’ the vibrations of the Consciousness of God. And, to clarify my position on this even further, embodying the fullness of God is not even an option in the Spiritual or Ascended realm in which the Lifestream of Jesus is presently abiding.

If Jesus embodied God, then who is ‘the Father’ to whom Jesus so often referred? When Jesus said, “I am going to my Father,” what and who was he talking about? When Jesus talked about, “the One who sent me,” to whom was he referring?

Personally, I don’t see any useful or constructive purpose to contemplating what the disciples thought and said about Jesus, when we have Jesus’ own words to study. To me, the disciples would be the lesser source of information; of course though, if you want to hold them above Jesus, then go ahead and do it.

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I see [Jesus’] soul as being that of the "master" who not only oversee's this realm but provides the energy for it to exist.
Of course we are free to hold any view that we want, but, for me, it still needs to somehow fit in with what we know and think we know about Energy, the creation-and-manifestation process, etc. The idea that this entire material realm can be continuously sustained by the ‘Soul’, Energies or Consciousness of only one Ascended Master is not supported by any texts or Spiritual Teachings or theories that I have yet come across.

Could we also, for a minute, wonder: Who (or what) was providing all of the Energies that this realm needs to stay in existence, while Jesus was embodied on Earth and especially as an infant and youngster? (Am I correct in assuming that you include all of Nature and all of the other planets, moons and stars of this solar system when you talk about ‘this realm’?)

Justanaverageguy, I fully understand that you do not take on board anything that does not align with what you already think, believe and know to be true (from your Post #324: “I also follow other teachings as well But I think the new teachings need to be "compatible" with what we already know to be true...”), nevertheless, I am still offering for your consideration, 21 Essential Lessons – Volume 1.

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> but asserts directly that he stands in judgement of man...
> Regarding "it not being the season for figs" I always simply took this to mean .... There is no off season for producing good fruit.
> Regarding the fruit being of a "spiritual nature" .... Yes sure ..... but we exist in physical form. Any physical action we take has a spiritual nature to it. eg: If I sacrifice my time and money to feed the poor - that action has a spiritual (qualitative) nature to it but it takes on physical form and has physical consequences (karma) whuch can be clearly seen: It relieves others hunger and suffering. (clearly good fruit).
I can’t find the version of the Bible that you are using for your quotes; would you mind sharing? In all the versions that I have checked, the quote relevant here is: “Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son,” or, “In addition, the Father judges no one. Instead, he has given the Son absolute authority to judge.”

‘The Son’ is Christ. Christ Consciousness – with its pure and perfect Vision, Truth and Wisdom of Christ – has been given power and proper authority of Judgment on Earth. Jesus was speaking as Christ, not as human Being Jesus. (I get that if you start off with the premise that Christ = Jesus = God = Man = Sun of Man = Son of God, then what I’m saying here is of little or no spiritual relevance, importance, significance.)


There is a physical off-season for physical trees. Jesus cursed and killed an actual physical tree; it is not a parable but an actual physical event in which there are direct spiritual lessons for those who want to grasp it. (Just because there may be other, metaphysical-level lessons, does not mean that it’s valid to just ignore the entire physical-event part.) The most important thing that it demonstrates, to those who can or want see it, is the amazing level of ‘dominion over the elements of Earth’ (atoms, electrons, natural growth cycles, etc.) that is possible for human Beings to have once they fully realize their God-given Christ Potential. “God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it.”

That passage has been used by false teachers to promote much misunderstanding amongst the masses and especially serious spiritual seekers and students. What we are actually meant to multiply is our Christ Light, through the process of gradually realizing more and more of our Christ Potential until we have attained our full personal Christhood. As an aside, this ‘multiplication’ of our own Christ Light is how to truly magnify God. There really can’t be any question that the Lifestream we now know as Jesus had already attained a very high degree of Christhood before his final embodiment on Earth (as Jesus), and that most of us are still very far below that level. But one of the tasks that Jesus had as part of that Spiritual Mission, was to demonstrate what is possible for each of us through our own God-endowed Potential. But first we have to see ourselves as God created us.

The Fallen Beings and false teachers want us to think that we are ‘unworthy sinners’. They want to keep us stuck in believing and feeling that we do not already have the Grace of God or the Holy Spirit – at least, will have it the moment that we sincerely ask from within. (That is, we do not need a priest, rabbi or deacon, or to follow outer doctrines and/or rituals, in order to make us worthy IN THE EYE OF GOD – because, as a proverbial ‘prodigal child’, we will each and all be happily and lovingly welcomed back as soon as we make the effort to get ‘Home’, for which each of us does of course individually and personally receive inspiration from the Holy Spirit and our own Higher Beings – Divine Intervention as you experienced it.) But, before we get ‘all the way Home’, we do also need to be Guided and Directed to our own proper repentance, redemption and salvation. (Which, of course as long as one has Karma there is a need to repent and atone for every ‘jot and tittle’ of it. Nevertheless, this needs to be done from within. “The kingdom of God is in your midst” – within your own heart-and-mind or consciousness.)

Just to be clear: I am NOT saying that we cannot receive much guidance and assistance from true spiritual teachings and embodied or physical true spiritual teachers; only that we will each get to the point where we will need to make the free-will spiritual decision and choice to transcend or go beyond it. (Being able to discern the true from the false is, of course, part of what we need to learn how to do properly.)


Any physical action that we take also has a metaphysical aspect, but is not necessarily of a spiritual nature – it can also be of a non-constructive, destructive or evil nature. There is a problem with thinking that we can discern what is ‘clearly good fruit’ before we have cultivated, within our own Mind, the pure and perfect Vision, Truth and Wisdom of Christ. As long as we are perceiving and functioning from within duality consciousness, then our opinion of what is ‘clearly good fruit’ (and what is ‘bad fruit’) amounts to nothing more than ‘judgment amongst men’ according to human-made standards, conditions and rules.

We may think that we know what is ‘kind’, but we do not really know until we also know the Karma of the person to whom we are giving our perceived kindness: If a ‘Soul’ has become complacent in the material world of form – if it stops its spiritual growth and desiring to return Home to God – then, for that ‘Soul’ to evolve higher, it needs to personally experience the unpleasantness, discomfort or pain – the consequences – of its prior spiritual misunderstandings and wrongdoings (spiritual ignorance and disobedience); this is the purpose and mechanism of the Law of Karma, the complement to and necessary because of the Law of Free Will. (There is actually linear logic in the relationship between the two, which we can follow if/when we want to.)

Another aside: I know that there is a difference between ‘innocent’ spiritual ignorance and disobedience, and willful/deliberate of the same – but, at the end, it does not matter IN THE EYE OF GOD. We are meant to surrender all of our lesser-lower garbage, and, if we won’t do it on our own, then Karma will help us do it. We can learn the easy way – which is the Way preferred by God and taught and demonstrated by Jesus – or we can learn the hard way; the way of suffering that the Bhudda taught against.

Hopefully it goes without saying, but just in case: I do NOT think that volunteering or being kind and generous of spirit, heart and personal resources is negative, non-spiritual or will generate negative Karma. I am only speaking to a self-image in which is absent the fact that Christ Vision, Truth and Wisdom are still lacking.


For those who are open to Progressive Revelation and specifically Ascended-Master Dictations/Teachings, I thought I would share this book (in downloadable PDF format), Memoirs of Beloved Jesus and Mother Mary. I especially like the anecdotes of Jesus’ childhood, but there is other ‘spiritual food’ for thought. .
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Old 12th January 2018, 9:18 PM   #336
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Justanaverageguy, I am not sure how you are arriving at your interpretation/conclusion on that because I have specifically said that I do NOT see Jesus as ever having embodied God on Earth (see my Post #303). The material realm does not have the higher frequencies and Energies to be able to contain, support or ‘bear’ the vibrations of the Consciousness of God. And, to clarify my position on this even further, embodying the fullness of God is not even an option in the Spiritual or Ascended realm in which the Lifestream of Jesus is presently abiding.

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Ok sorry if I misrepresented your views - my mistake - no offence intended. I guess it's just another area our views differ or perhaps a difference around the symantics of what I meant. I think we are capable of embodying God on Earth .... Which is what I think the holy spirit bestows. By this I mean when you behave in the same manner God does and are filled with his spirit I see this as embodying god. Obviously we don't have the "fullness" of his total power - but on this plane and scale of existence we follow the same pattern of behaviour he does and have his power to manifest and alter creation via our words and will. This is all I mean.

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If Jesus embodied God, then who is ‘the Father’ to whom Jesus so often referred? When Jesus said, “I am going to my Father,” what and who was he talking about? When Jesus talked about, “the One who sent me,” to whom was he referring?
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God is the totality of all that is - Brahman - that larger being we are all apart of. I am the vine you are the branches. Its both a physical and energetic connection and we exist within the energetic system that is "god". The tree structure is what we in mathematics call a "fractal" meaning it is self similar. This structure is the physical representation of "made in God's image". Statement. A recursive repeating motif where each layer follows the same rules creating self similar structures within themselves. Thus we exist within god - a physcial and energetic part of him and are fully capable of receiving energy from him. The relationship is much like the one you have to the cells in your body. If a small cell acts in the same manner as the larger being .... It embodies it - a smaller mirror image of it - not just physically but behaviourally. It is capable of channeling more energy from the higher being because it "does the will of the father". Jesus who we are part of is going closer to that energetic source and thus increasing in energy and thus we the smaller branches are commensurately also increasing in our power. That's my view.

I linked this previously but if you have time please watch this video on fractals - the section from 10mins on covers specifically how they relate to energy transfer and creating structures capable of receiving very wide bands of energy.

https://youtu.be/xLgaoorsi9U

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Of course we are free to hold any view that we want, but, for me, it still needs to somehow fit in with what we know and think we know about Energy, the creation-and-manifestation process, etc. The idea that this entire material realm can be continuously sustained by the ‘Soul’, Energies or Consciousness of only one Ascended Master is not supported by any texts or Spiritual Teachings or theories that I have yet come across.

Could we also, for a minute, wonder: Who (or what) was providing all of the Energies that this realm needs to stay in existence, while Jesus was embodied on Earth and especially as an infant and youngster? (Am I correct in assuming that you include all of Nature and all of the other planets, moons and stars of this solar system when you talk about ‘this realm’?)
How many billions and trillions of organisms and cells exist within your own body ? Who is it that provides the energy for that vast array of living creatures to exist ? Your own body is a mini universe - you are "god" to the organisms in your body .... In my view Jesus and indeed gods "body" works a similar way. Obviously on a far grander and more complex scale - and with more evolved "cells".

Eg: "This is my body - take this all of you and eat"

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Justanaverageguy, I fully understand that you do not take on board anything that does not align with what you already think, believe and know to be true (from your Post #324: “I also follow other teachings as well But I think the new teachings need to be "compatible" with what we already know to be true...”), nevertheless, I am still offering for your consideration, 21 Essential Lessons – Volume 1.
I'm not sure that's a fair or very considerate statement..... I said teachings needed to be "compatible with" basic fundamental truths we knew to be true. Not that they needed to be "identical to" everything we currently think. I'm traveling at the moment and will take the time to read this and let you know what I think and get out of it.

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(Just because there may be other, metaphysical-level lessons, does not mean that it’s valid to just ignore the entire physical-event part.) The most important thing that it demonstrates, to those who can or want see it, is the amazing level of ‘dominion over the elements of Earth’ (atoms, electrons, natural growth cycles, etc.) that is possible for human Beings to have once they fully realize their God-given Christ Potential. “God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it.”

That passage has been used by false teachers to promote much misunderstanding amongst the masses and especially serious spiritual seekers and students.
I think there might be confusion here - I don't dispute when the disciples saw the results of Jesus cursing the fig Jesus used it as an opportunity to explain how words and belief have power to manifest results in line with law of attraction and how this ability becomes strengthened as we take on higher spiritual energy. I totally agree with your view on that portion. He also did the same at the sermon on the mount. I simply disagreed that him cursing the tree was accidental or a mistake or caused by him losing his temper showing he hadn't developed full control over his power. I consider it and his action in the temple to be very deliberate and intentional acts meant to link the parable of the barren fig to what was happening in the temple. That this adds very specific meaning regarding consequences and was meant to be included in his teachings as written. God has dominion over the earth and if he wishes to curse a single tree as a teaching aid - he is free to do so.

Last edited by Justanaverageguy; 13th January 2018 at 12:28 AM..
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Old 13th January 2018, 12:33 AM   #337
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I use to believe that finding belief in God and Christ was the hard part.

I suppose I spent the first 35 years of my life in the want to believe in God but can't camp. I am a Mechanical Engineer. I probable fall somewhere on the Autistic spectrum. I use to be an Agnostic. Then I became an Atheist. Eventually I returned back to Agnostic. Then, I became a Christian.
So, back in the day, I read a lot. I read as much of the ancient non Christian historical writings as I could find and get ahold of.
I read most of the Gnostic Gospels.
I hunted down and read Josephus', "Antiquities of the Jews". I read as much of the Roman Historian accounts, and other ancient writings.
I read all that I could find regarding the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple.
In addition, I have read through lots of the Near Death experiences.
Eventually, I read "A Case for Christ".
Between that, and all of the other bricks of unusual experiences...
The brick pile gained enough weight to tip the scales.
So, one former atheist, agnostic turned Christian.
I use to believe that finding belief in God and Christ was the hard part.
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Old 13th January 2018, 12:37 PM   #338
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It's strange to talk about faith, as though some scripture or opinion will lead a person to it.

I have had ambivalence to 'church' and the Bible...but never God.

God, for me, has been ever present. My earliest memory has been with a knowledge of Presence. I don't think that needs to be translated.

At the end of it, a person 'get's' it or not. It sounds dismissive, almost mean but.....there it is.

It's good to talk about faith, who knows what good will come and there are far worse things to talk about.
Whatever is good, think on these things.

I enjoy reading all the posts on this thread, that's all.
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Old 14th January 2018, 12:56 PM   #339
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Justanaverageguy, thanks for the link to the video on fractals. I agree that it – and holographs – form part of the ‘science’ of how our universe works. (I wish our mathematicians would start working to develop some type of ‘Infinity Mathematics’, though – everything is off because they think that there is a limited amount of Energy.)

I don’t think that ‘in alignment with’ means the same thing as ‘identical to’; I think that ‘in alignment with’ means ‘compatible with’.
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Old 16th January 2018, 11:52 AM   #340
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Why believing in something that lacks evidence?

And if you could prove Yahweh's existence, why worshim Him? The deity of the Bible is a horrific monster. What sort of deity gives you logic, only to demand faith in the illogical upon pain of eternal damnation?
Well, it's more like I want to believe in something that in my mind, lacks sufficient evidence. I'm trying to to make peace with the fact that half of my brain is an atheist and half believes in God. There are a few reasons that I want God to be real. One, I struggle to find meaning if there is no afterlife. I also find the idea that I won't see my family/friends after they die to be very depressing. An additional reason is that religion has provided me with some meaning, a group of friends, and a community that is important to my life.

I don't disagree that the deity of the OT has a lot to answer for. We talked about this way back in the thread actually. The bolded is something I have no answer for and part of what keeps me searching.
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Old 16th January 2018, 11:55 AM   #341
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God, for me, has been ever present. My earliest memory has been with a knowledge of Presence. I don't think that needs to be translated.

At the end of it, a person 'get's' it or not. It sounds dismissive, almost mean but.....there it is.
Thank you for sharing. This made me think that maybe I am the opposite. I have a very hard time praying and feeling that God is there.
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Old 19th January 2018, 1:15 PM   #342
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Thank you for sharing. This made me think that maybe I am the opposite. I have a very hard time praying and feeling that God is there.
I'm sorry that you feel that way, that you are asking/seeking and left with a disconnect or uncertainty.
For myself, the polar opposite. I have never felt without, it's inside, a part of my being, my body, my existence....always been there so it simply Is like the color of my eyes.

Why is that? I don't know and I don't know if it is common but I certainly don't feel 'special' or that I am more loved by God than someone who does not experience similar. Honestly, your thread interested me because it was the first time I really pondered an effort to believe in God. That it doesn't only happen, even if with some introspection.

The God I know is not withholding. Is it possible that you are not acknowledging a connection that is already existent? What do I mean by that...that you are seeing or not what you want, instead of what you are shown...

I hope I don't come off as flip as that is not my intention. I have enjoyed reading other posters experiences and interpretations, they are so well informed. In the realm of religion, my only expertise is my personal experience and being the biological daughter of a preacher who was the son of a preacher....and the adopted daughter of an ordained minister who was the son of a priest. Pretty shabby.

I hope you find what you are looking for...you may have to look deeper into yourself though because it's probably already there.
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Old 1st February 2018, 3:52 PM   #343
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God is very real. You have to pray every day, get in the word, and you must surround yourself with Christian friends and you need to be in a Bible based church. If you do those things and around those who truly love the Lord, you will have no doubts soon. God is amazing and very real.
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Old 1st February 2018, 6:51 PM   #344
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God is very real. You have to pray every day, get in the word, and you must surround yourself with Christian friends and you need to be in a Bible based church. If you do those things and around those who truly love the Lord, you will have no doubts soon. God is amazing and very real.
If that were true, The Clergy Project which provides support to current and former religious professionals without supernatural belief wouldn't exist. Plus there wouldn't be any atheists of which there are plenty, who are former christians.

That said until your god or any other god can be proven to exist with actual evidence as opposed to anecdotal nonsense, I will continue to rationally presume they don't exist.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 12:43 PM   #345
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That said until your god or any other god can be proven to exist with actual evidence
That is not ever going to happen on Earth because it will violate God's Law of Free Will, which is that all people have the God-given right to be absolutely free to make their own spiritual decision as to whether or not God exists; and, if God does, God's Nature and Qualities.
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I will continue to rationally presume they don't exist.
Well...even quantum physicists are leaving the door open: They are most earnestly and devotedly looking for what they themselves decided to call 'the God Particle'.
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