The Introvert Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Hie ALL. My question goes as follows; Is celebrating Christmas good in the eyes of Jehovah God? Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Some folks might have issues speaking for God, but not me. In America at least, certainly Christmas has some strong pagan influences. Christmas trees have been ripped off from Germanic pagans. Santa Claus is ripped off from St. Nicholas, a Greek Christian tough guy who allegedly smacked Arius around at the Council of Nicaea. The date we celebrate Christmas is likely ripped off from pagan Winter solstice festivals. But as long as we keep in mind the example of a man who, whether it really happened or not, gave everything he had for his fellow man and try to do likewise even in a much smaller way, God will forbear from smiting us. For now. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
CarrieT Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 You have asked two questions - the one in the title of your thread (Pagan or Christian?) and the later... Since the latter question is non sequitur, I won't address that. The former, however, is obvious. Since I am an avowed occultist and Pagan, to me, "Christmas" - or Yuletide - is a Pagan celebration that has been adulterated by the Christians. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
AspenBaldwin Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 L.A drug dealer, spiritual healer, amber lights, zig zag, up and down the beach, trying but failing to reach a soft friendly smile, oh but she's been gone awhile... no pulse, flatline --------------------------- Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Hie ALL. My question goes as follows; Is celebrating Christmas good in the eyes of Jehovah God? Both questions are really good Introvert. I've heard and read before that the origins are pagan, but that was so long ago. If I may go deeper into your questions- I found this article and was beyond intrigued by: Origin of Christmas | The history of Christmas and how it began The DePascha Computus, an anonymous document believed to have been written in North Africa around 243 CE, placed Jesus birth on March 28. Clement, a bishop of Alexandria (d. ca. 215 CE), thought Jesus was born on November 18. Based on historical records, Fitzmyer guesses that Jesus birth occurred on September 11, 3 BCE. If that date is correct, I would say that is beyond interesting and worth more research. OP, I didn't read the entire article and cannot verify it as far as truth goes. Like stating before, the interest is the September 11th date. I've heard his birthday was at or around the end of summer... Anyway, is celebrating Christmas Godly or of God? I don't know. I think it's a matter of the heart. If one truly wants to re-visit our Lords birth on December 25th, I see no problem with that. Most people leave Jesus out anyway, so it being pagan plays little role I suppose. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tayla Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Hie ALL. My question goes as follows; Is celebrating Christmas good in the eyes of Jehovah God? Why Don?t Jehovah?s Witnesses Celebrate Christmas? | FAQ That should help answer your question. Link to post Share on other sites
Gloria25 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Dad, years ago when I was a young one, had us watch the Discovery Channel and there was some show on how Christmas began as a pagan ritual. I think Valentines day too... Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Dad, years ago when I was a young one, had us watch the Discovery Channel and there was some show on how Christmas began as a pagan ritual. I think Valentines day too... I saw that too. Looked on the internet (probably didn't have the right tags), but couldn't find much close to what the DC taught. History Channel had one too... hummm. It feels like the info is not there when I need it lol. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) Our Christian forefathers denounced use of pagan symbols (tree, Ivy, holly, mistletoe) as being anti-christian, and banned their use. However, good sense and festivities prevailed, now we lump the whole damn lot together in a pagan-Christian-Jewish-Hindu whoopeee time which basically goes to celebrate the triumph of Light over Darkness. But the Pagans did it first, in our corner of the globe. We just know about Hanukkah and Diwali via the spread of cultural habits across the globe. Of course, if we want to be pedantic, the true essence and focus of Christianity comes around at Easter, not Christmas, when Christ showed his true power over Eternal Death. But then, we has easter eggs, the bunny and other Pagan symbols too... because that's right, the Christians muscled in on the act and stole that one too... Me? I'm Buddhist, I just go along for the ride, mince pies and 'chestnuts roastin' on an open fire.' Edited December 10, 2015 by TaraMaiden2 Link to post Share on other sites
truthtripper Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 As a child, I learnt in my Sunday school bible classes that the word "Christmas" is a fusion of the words "Christ" and "Mass". So Christmas was originally a Holy Mass which celebrated the Birth of Christ(The Nativity) and of course is still an important part of Christmas today for those who believe. Link to post Share on other sites
casey.lives Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Christmas..... fun warm wonderful...happy. JUST ENJOY 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 It makes sense that people would want to celebrate the shortest day of the year being over for another year. As long as Christians don't get too precious about non-believers celebrating a day that Christians themselves hijacked as a "special day" then I don't see why it matters that Christianity has contributed towards the Christmas festivities with a word for the day, carols, church services and so on. It all adds something to make the day a special one. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) To be fair, when I was a Parent-Governor at my daughter's primary school, (which was a Diocesan RC School) The local RC parish Priest, who was a wonderful friend, used to also mention Pagan rituals and other parallel religious festivals, in an attempt to unite many people under one banner. It didn't always go down extremely well with some parishioners - but they were notable by their scant number and isolated dogmatic views, and the vast majority of the congregation not only disagreed with them, but said so. Come Christmas, the church would be festooned liberally with ivy and pine-tree garlands, baubles, sprigs of holly, and bunches of mistletoe as our resident flower-arrangers went potty with enthusiasm, decorating the church to the rafters. The nativity (half life-size) was always very popular too, and was not omitted from bearing similar decor.... Something the nay-sayers were curiously silent about, given that they probably used the same type of decorations in their homes. Edited December 10, 2015 by TaraMaiden2 2 Link to post Share on other sites
truthtripper Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 To be fair, when I was a Parent-Governor at my daughter's primary school, (which was a Diocesan RC School) The local RC parish Priest, who was a wonderful friend, used to also mention Pagan rituals and other parallel religious festivals, in an attempt to unite many people under one banner. It didn't always go down extremely well with some parishioners - but they were notable by their scant number and isolated dogmatic views, and the vast majority of the congregation not only disagreed with them, but said so. Come Christmas, the church would be festooned liberally with ivy and pine-tree garlands, baubles, sprigs of holly, and bunches of mistletoe as our resident flower-arrangers went potty with enthusiasm, decorating the church to the rafters. The nativity (half life-size) was always very popular too, and was not omitted from bearing similar decor.... Something the nay-sayers were curiously silent about, given that they probably used the same type of decorations in their homes. Pagan or Christian, it's the spirit that matters 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Christmas..... fun warm wonderful...happy. JUST ENJOY I was thinking this morning all of the individuals and groups that try to remove/change Christmas- some totally hate it... it must take a truly miserable human being to even care what goes on with others celebration of it. Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 The origins are totally pagan, but the 'holiday' now is all secular, so .... there is no Christ in Christmas, but thankfully there never was. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RecentChange Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Don't most histroical scholars agree that Jesus was probably born in the mid summer? I am not familiar with an abundance of evergreen trees and snow in Jerusalem. (So laughable that these "symbols of Christmas" on Starbucks cups was an issue of contention). "Christmas" is winter solstice stolen and reappropriated. I have nothing against a Jesus birthday celebration, but it seems quite obvious that this is a borrowed holiday. Same goes for easter / spring equinox. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Don't most histroical scholars agree that Jesus was probably born in the mid summer? No, actually calculating back astronomically, to the movement of certain constellations in the Northern Hemisphere, and working back to the appearance of a specific comet and stellar phenomena, it would appear he was actually either a Libra or a Pisces/Aries. In other words, either October, or April. (These months are 6 months apart. Constellations apparently match up, positionally, in these 6-month-intervals....) I am not familiar with an abundance of evergreen trees and snow in Jerusalem. (So laughable that these "symbols of Christmas" on Starbucks cups was an issue of contention).So you've never heard of the Cedar of Lebanon? Furthermore, it snowed heavily in Jerusalem This year in February, and also in 2012, and in 2008.... "Christmas" is winter solstice stolen and reappropriated. I have nothing against a Jesus birthday celebration, but it seems quite obvious that this is a borrowed holiday. Same goes for easter / spring equinox. Yes, I think you'll find we've covered that....! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 No, actually calculating back astronomically, to the movement of certain constellations in the Northern Hemisphere, and working back to the appearance of a specific comet and stellar phenomena, it would appear he was actually either a Libra or a Pisces/Aries. In other words, either October, or April. (These months are 6 months apart. Constellations apparently match up, positionally, in these 6-month-intervals....) So you've never heard of the Cedar of Lebanon? Furthermore, it snowed heavily in Jerusalem This year in February, and also in 2012, and in 2008.... Yes, I think you'll find we've covered that....! The Bible is very clear as to the date of his death, and his age at the time. The remaining calculation is pretty simple. Link to post Share on other sites
Samhain Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 The majority of Christian celebrations are Pagan. The Catholic church introduced Christmas on the 25th December to overbear the Pagan festival of the Winter solstice on the 21st. Jesus Christ was born some time in October. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 The Bible is very clear as to the date of his death, and his age at the time. The remaining calculation is pretty simple. The Bible is nothing of the kind. In fact at one point, someone asks Jesus "You are not yet 50..." (John 8: 57) which would indicate he had actually passed his 40th birthday, thus making him a good deal older than his presumed 33 years at time of death. (Else they would have said "You are not yet 40"...) The Massacre of the Innocents, for example, is in itself a highly-debatable incident, so even that is hazy, to say the least. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 The majority of Christian celebrations are Pagan. The Catholic church introduced Christmas on the 25th December to overbear the Pagan festival of the Winter solstice on the 21st. Jesus Christ was born some time in October. Actually, I retract my previous statement, as it now seems there might be a possibility that he might have been a 'May' baby.... Based on the date of Jesus’ birth provided by Clement of Alexandria (ca. 200 AD), Jesus would have been born on May 14, 6 BC (Faulstich 1998:109-112). The wise men from the east do not arrive in Jerusalem to visit Herod and then go on to Bethlehem until at least 50 days after the birth of the Lord Jesus, but more than likely a year to a year and a half later. From here. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Samhain Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Interesting stuff, definitely up for debate. My personal interest in history and theology come with pretty much the same results, either April ish or October-ish (spring or autumn) From the bible perspective most people against the Dec 25th birth use the passage about Jesus being born 6 mo's after John the Baptists birth. But it's all a mystery really all open for interpretation. I guess one thing's clear enough and that it wasn't Dec 25th. Either way it's a great holiday for family and friends to come together and should be celebrated by all whether it's traditionally so, religiously so or just a day to be nice to somebody. Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 The Bible is nothing of the kind. In fact at one point, someone asks Jesus "You are not yet 50..." (John 8: 57) which would indicate he had actually passed his 40th birthday, thus making him a good deal older than his presumed 33 years at time of death. (Else they would have said "You are not yet 40"...) Um no. Nice cutoff for the quote though. What it says is '56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day, and he saw it and was glad.” 57 Then the Jewish leaders asked him, “You are not even 50 years old, yet you have seen Abraham?”' So "you're not OLD enough to have known Abraham, son" would be the loose translation. Why 50? Hard to be sure but 50 was an age where Hebrew men were considered for more influential religious positions, and they, who were in that position, may have wanted to not-so-subtly point that out. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Samhain Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Who'd have thunk that this would have turned into a theological debate :-P Link to post Share on other sites
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