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Fellow atheists and nonreligious types - how do you handle Christmas gatherings?


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Specifically the inevitable family group prayer. I mean the deal where everyone is supposed to hold hands in a big circle or something and someone leads a prayer.

 

 

I keep going back and forth on this. The "don't make waves" part of me says it's easier to just hold hands and play along for a minute or so, and then it's over. Who cares about the prayer? Me playing along helps keep the peace and avoid controversy.

 

 

On the other hand, the rational part of me asks why I should participate in something I think is ridiculous? I also wonder if one person had the balls to overtly "opt out," that perhaps other likeminded folks who were too scared/polite/etc to lead the charge might also opt out after seeing it was okay to do so.

 

 

As it is, I usually hold hands but I keep my eyes open and just sort look at the other people. Usually there are a couple people doing the same.

 

 

Thoughts?

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We don't hold hands and pray in my family, but if somebody requested it and nobody else objected - I would just go along with it. I can't imagine any of us doing it without cracking up laughing, but if it were important to anybody there then I would try my utmost to keep a straight face.

 

It's the way I tend to operate, generally. Unless I felt in some way hurt, harmed or genuinely demeaned by a ritual, then I'd just go along with it to keep others happy. If the worst I feel is faintly ridiculous....well, I quite enjoy that feeling. So that would be another reason to go along with it.

 

Actually, I might suggest it this Christmas.

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You do it for the same reason you go to a funeral or a wedding or whatever.

 

You do it for your grandmother. For your family. To make them feel good.

 

Just take 10 minutes and make other people feel happy by keeping your mouth shut.

 

You have the same tenencies I do, as a fellow atheist.

 

This isn't for you. It's for them.

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We don't hold hands and pray in my family, but if somebody requested it and nobody else objected - I would just go along with it. I can't imagine any of us doing it without cracking up laughing, but if it were important to anybody there then I would try my utmost to keep a straight face.

 

It's the way I tend to operate, generally. Unless I felt in some way hurt, harmed or genuinely demeaned by a ritual, then I'd just go along with it to keep others happy. If the worst I feel is faintly ridiculous....well, I quite enjoy that feeling. So that would be another reason to go along with it.

 

Actually, I might suggest it this Christmas.

 

 

So you'd pretty much somewhat play along but not genuinely participate? I mean, I don't bow my head or close my eyes or say "Amen" or take it seriously in any way. I would NOT do that. I don't try to blend in 100% or pretend like I'm really into it. I just don't try to stick out either.

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So you'd pretty much somewhat play along but not genuinely participate?

 

I might just play along, or I might suspend disbelief for a short time and get right into it.

 

I mean, I don't bow my head or close my eyes or say "Amen" or take it seriously in any way. I would NOT do that. I don't try to blend in 100% or pretend like I'm really into it. I just don't try to stick out either.

 

Yeah, for the most part that's probably how I'd handle it. A bit like if I go to a wedding or a funeral - I won't really sing the hymns. I'll just mouth along. If you and I were in a circle of hand-holders praying together, I would keep my eyes shut primarily so that I didn't catch your eye. Because inevitably if I catch anybody's eye in a situation like that - I'm going to laugh.

 

It's not really related, but one time a relative I didn't know very well (but was staying with for a weekend) dragged me along to a party. I thought it was just a normal get together of a few people, until I arrived and realised there was something strange afoot. It turned out to be a Christian singles club get together. I was informed of this by a minister - who was presenting himself as being the cool, cynical one of the group.

 

Things took a turn for the worse when "some of the more musically talented members of the group" decided it was time to entertain us. One girl was playing the French horn, which made her look like a bit like a blowfish. I was trying desperately to watch respectfully. I felt I was being watched, and when I looked to my left I caught the minister's eye. He started smirking at me...and I actually had to leave the room (pretending I'd suddenly been taken ill). It was rude, but it would have been ruder to sit there laughing uncontrollably

 

That is the only issue I have with these things. The fear that the laughter will bubble up and become uncontrollable - which is, of course, horribly offensive. I know the following video is fake, but it captures that horror of not being able to stop laughing in a situation where you really shouldn't

 

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I just go along. I can respect someone else's traditions for a few moments - if done in a private setting and it's not a public event where this should not occur anyway. In another setting I might expect them to respect my views, or at least listen while I make them known - if I wish to do so.

 

As long as they're not bashing atheists or intentionally being disrespectful to me, I have no problem with it. Just like I have no problem attending a wedding in a church, or a funeral service - it's not about me, it's about respect for someone else.

 

In my house or at an event I've organized, I would draw the line. In someone else's house, I'll respect their wishes. I'll go through the motions, but of course I'll be thinking something else - perhaps a secular meditation.

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I just play along....

 

We dont hold hands and pray, but I will keep my eyes down and stay quiet of grace is said etc.

 

I don't believe, religion isn't my thing, but I try not to disrespect the person who's house I am in.

 

It's the same as visiting homes with cultural norms different than mine. May not be my "normal" but I play along out of respect.

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In my house or at an event I've organized, I would draw the line. In someone else's house, I'll respect their wishes. I'll go through the motions, but of course I'll be thinking something else - perhaps a secular meditation.

 

Yes, when we've hosted events, I have made it clear that I'm not leading a prayer, and I really don't give anyone else the option to butt in and try to lead one, because I figure it's my house, my rules. I do give a nice, good-spirited welcome speech to everyone, and for events like Thanksgiving, I found some good online resources that talk about the farmers growing the food, the truck drivers delivering the food, the grocery clerks stocking the food, etc. I figure no one can complain about giving thanks to the people whose activities actually led to us having the dinner in the first place.

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As it is, I usually hold hands but I keep my eyes open and just sort look at the other people. Usually there are a couple people doing the same.

 

I'm not involved in any situations where there are hand-holding prayers, but if there's stuff like grace or whatevs I play along to a respectful extent - don't really participate but don't disregard it either. Not all causes have to have battles fought over them and not everything (or even much of anything) is an offense so serious it has to be actively pushed back on. And this is coming from an alternative lifestyle world ....there's still not much that needs fighting as long as no one brings it to me.

 

I've actually even gone to church to play nice w/BF's parents a couple times in the last year or so, but admittedly I've had ulterior motives. :cool: (Normally I probably wouldn't go to those lengths to accommodate others.)

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Whoever's house you're at = the rules you should follow. I'm a staunch atheist, but much of my family is Christian. If we have Thanksgiving or Christmas at one of their houses, and they choose to pray, then I play along. It's their house, so I respect their customs.

 

However, when they come to my house, we do not pray. They know I'm an atheist, and they respect my wishes in my house.

 

A man's home is his castle. And when in Rome, you do as the Romans do.

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Specifically the inevitable family group prayer. I mean the deal where everyone is supposed to hold hands in a big circle or something and someone leads a prayer.

 

 

I keep going back and forth on this. The "don't make waves" part of me says it's easier to just hold hands and play along for a minute or so, and then it's over. Who cares about the prayer? Me playing along helps keep the peace and avoid controversy.

 

 

On the other hand, the rational part of me asks why I should participate in something I think is ridiculous? I also wonder if one person had the balls to overtly "opt out," that perhaps other likeminded folks who were too scared/polite/etc to lead the charge might also opt out after seeing it was okay to do so.

 

 

As it is, I usually hold hands but I keep my eyes open and just sort look at the other people. Usually there are a couple people doing the same.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

We only occasionally do the hand-holding prayer thing, but when we do, I hold hands but keep my head up and eyes open just as you describe. When it's just prayer and bowed heads, I just sit silently.

 

I figure you have to find the line between impolite and insincere, and behave that way. Most of my family is pretty "casually" religious but I do have an evangelical aunt and uncle. Around them, I actually make it a bigger point to NOT participate when I can; I want them to know they'll never 'get' me. (Because they've aggressively and rudely tried to convert me before as a very young and impressionable adult)

 

Anyway, this is a great question.

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I am respectful and quiet when a prayer is said. I don't usually close my eyes. I figure that, if anyone notices my eyes are open, then theirs are, too :p

 

I drink egg nog and exchange presents and sing the carols for the fun of it.

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We only occasionally do the hand-holding prayer thing, but when we do, I hold hands but keep my head up and eyes open just as you describe. When it's just prayer and bowed heads, I just sit silently.

 

I figure you have to find the line between impolite and insincere, and behave that way. Most of my family is pretty "casually" religious but I do have an evangelical aunt and uncle. Around them, I actually make it a bigger point to NOT participate when I can; I want them to know they'll never 'get' me. (Because they've aggressively and rudely tried to convert me before as a very young and impressionable adult)

 

Anyway, this is a great question.

 

 

Haha regarding your evangelical aunt and uncle, I have a few like that as well, and the evil part of me has been tempted to lead a prayer to the Flying Spaghetti Monster when we host dinners at our home just to see what kind of reaction I'd get. I mean, of course they would be fine with it as long as we pray to THEIR god, but what if we pray to someone else's?

 

 

Come to think of it, a prayer to Zeus could be pretty epic. I need to find a "lightning sound" app for my iPhone. Zaaaaap!!

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I was baptised and raised Roman Catholic, living for the most part in a Church of England/Protestant country, that actually does not manifest or display religious habits and preferences as prominently and evidently as the USA.

Religion, belief in God and public and exhibitive demonstrations of personal faith, are quite rare.

So to be honest, though I have been a house guest of many people in my lifetime, the only time I was ever involved in 'saying Grace', was either at my Primary School (a protestant-funded school), my secondary school (a Catholic Convent) and also occasionally, in Italy when staying with my grandparents....

And we never held hands. Ever.

 

so faced with that situation now (which I think highly unlikely) I will just put my hands in my lap, wait for the speaker to finish, join in the 'Amen' (which just means 'so be it') and silently personally thank and bless all involved with bringing the food to the table.

 

Really, it causes no pain, and it's only for a few minutes - I can't be arsed to be a spoilsport idiot about it.

I mean, what a way to cultivate criticism and make enemies!!

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I am an occultist. Have been for 40+ years. Two years ago, I married a Jew who converted to Lutheranism. He knows of my occult tendencies.

 

Essentially, how we treat people and wish to be treated is the same so our core philosophies align. When it comes to "holidays," I respect his and he respects mine.

 

I will attend services with him and be polite and follow along, excluding communion. He has attended mine as well and is respectful and polite.

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My friends and family don't participate in any Christian mumbo jumbo. No belief in Leprechauns, Jesus or Sasquatch.

 

However, when at a funeral or whatever I just respect the culture of whoever is running the show.

 

I enjoy all the the religious rituals, carols, etc. I also enjoy witches and goblins at Halloween.

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T-16bullseyeWompRat

Pretty easy to just play along. Its over so quick. Comparing to a wedding is not accurate at all to me. Weddings are the worst, most painful things ive ever had the disservice of attending. Prayer is easy to fake, even a long prayer is like 5 minutes.. Faking that i give a flip someone else is getting married for 2+ hours and having to get dressed up and all that bs. Ugh. Not even a close comparison.

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My friends and family don't participate in any Christian mumbo jumbo. No belief in Leprechauns, Jesus or Sasquatch.

 

However, when at a funeral or whatever I just respect the culture of whoever is running the show.

 

I enjoy all the the religious rituals, carols, etc. I also enjoy witches and goblins at Halloween.

 

Ditto. I have a particular fondness for the nativity and three wise men. I guess I just love the symbolism

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Prayer can mean different things to different people. If you don't believe in God, you don't have to pray to God.

 

You can bow your head and give thanks for those around you. Or send positive energy to them or the world. Or take some deep breaths and focus on being wholly present in the moment.

 

Prayer = taking a moment to focus on the sacred.

 

That can mean anything you want it to.

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BetheButterfly
Haha regarding your evangelical aunt and uncle, I have a few like that as well, and the evil part of me has been tempted to lead a prayer to the Flying Spaghetti Monster when we host dinners at our home just to see what kind of reaction I'd get. I mean, of course they would be fine with it as long as we pray to THEIR god, but what if we pray to someone else's?

 

 

Come to think of it, a prayer to Zeus could be pretty epic. I need to find a "lightning sound" app for my iPhone. Zaaaaap!!

 

The difference is that you don't truly believe in the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" or "Zeus" whereas I assume your evangelical family members do truly believe in God.

 

Hopefully, their prayers to God are not done in a mean spirit to spite you? That would be very rude, if they were just leading a prayer to a being they don't believe in order to bother you; hopefully that's not the case.

 

I have an Atheist cousin. When the rest of the family prays, he disappears with his cell phone, which is fine. :) We respect his rights and love him. We don't do anything out of spite against him, and he has never said or done anything to our face to insult us or our beliefs. Why? Cause he loves us. :bunny:

 

So, do you love your family members and friends who believe in God? Love helps people to not be rude to each other for whatever reason.

 

As for evangelicals, if they truly believe that people will go to hell if they don't believe a certain thing, isn't it loving for them to invite people to what they believe will save people from eternal torture?

 

If I were an Atheist, I'd be fine with people inviting me to their faith if they believe that could save me from eternal torture. As a Christian, I have wonderful Muslim friends who invite me to Islam and I know they do cause they care about me. I respectfully reject their invitations and agree to disagree.

 

Anyways, if I were an Atheist, I'd just politely excuse myself when my family is praying or doing other "religious stuff" like my cousin does. :)

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My family isn't very religious, but we usually say something before our meal, mainly being grateful that we're all together that day and are able to enjoy a meal (some people can't afford).

 

If somewhere else where there is prayer time involved, I am respectful, say in a prayer group, hold hands with the others, bow my head with the others and think about what I need to add to my grocery list or try to remember who's birthday is coming up next, etc.

 

Just like you don't want hardcore believers to rub their beliefs in your face, atheists should not rub their non-beliefs in others faces.

 

For the sake of being in polite society, sometimes it's best to keep your beliefs/ideas to yourself and at home. For the people who don't abide by this polite rule, just laugh at their rudeness and move on with your day.

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