Rejected Rosebud Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Many people who publicly identify themselves as Christians in the news and on social media, as well as on forums like this one, are vehemently against assisting Syrian refugees. I am interested in how followers of Jesus defend that position, using this as the definition of Jesus' position on helping poor and needy people. Any takers? Matthew 25:31-46New International Version (NIV) The Sheep and the Goats 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ 44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ 45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ 46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” 3 Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 This passage refers to how the ones being judged treated the brothers (followers of) Christ. How (or why) would that apply to treatment of followers of Allah and Mohammed? Link to post Share on other sites
mrldii Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 What a great loophole! If someone's not a Christian, it's A-OK to treat them like crap! We only have to be good/nice/kind to fellow Christians. Oh, and for the record, there were no "Christians" when and where Christ lived...mostly Jews, King-followers, and pagan worshippers; not a single "Christian" in the land. It kinda took the death and resurrection of "Jesus Christ, the Son of God and Savior of all Mankind" TO create a "Christian". 4 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 The Good Samaritan story addresses who are "neighbors" to be helped: 36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?” 37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.” https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A25-37 5 Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 What a great loophole! If someone's not a Christian, it's A-OK to treat them like crap! Nope, there are other passages that say otherwise, but this one is being mis-applied in the OP, that's all. Happy to help. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rejected Rosebud Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Nope, there are other passages that say otherwise, but this one is being mis-applied in the OP, that's all. Happy to help. You are wrong. Jesus was not and never would ask that his followers only help Christians. Since you believe this though, please cite chapter and verse from the Bible where we are told that Jesus only requires that his followers help Christians. I am quite well studied in it and can't imagine where you would get that idea from. :confused: Edited November 24, 2015 by Rejected Rosebud 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 You are wrong. Jesus was not and never would ask that his followers only help Christians. Especially since there was no such a thing yet. If anything it would be that one should only help Jews. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 1 Thessalonians 5:15 Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else. to me when people are fleeing a country and asking asylum be given it is because they are at risk....i dont even see refugees as enemies as i dont know what is in their hearts bar fear for their lives.......neither does any other human.... i do know this though...with a military point of view...how do you destroy an enemy......you make them your friend....you show them kindness.....you treat them well.....you help them....there are no greater friends in deed than a friend in need..... i agree rejected rosebud...who are we to deny shelter and comfort to those in need foe or friend.....only if we wish to be denied on the day of judgement where we are judged not for the acts of others...but for our own actions or...non action ..........deb 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rejected Rosebud Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 I really just put this thread here because I am so perplexed about how people can justify refusing to help desperately needy people on their doorstep and at the same time believe that they are practicing Christianity. :confused: I mean these people are very quick to cite the Bible when they are speaking out about other issues they feel strongly about like gay marriage and abortions. And one of Jesus' main things was and is caring for the poor and hurt people. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
mrldii Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 And (as I mentioned in another thread) to be able to do it, straight-faced, this close tothe Thanksgiving holiday (for U.S. Christians) and while bitching about Starbucks removing Christmas references from the cups, 'taking the *Christ* out of the holiday! Seems like many have taken the Christ right out of "Christian" with their attitudes about barring others from their backyard. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 And (as I mentioned in another thread) to be able to do it, straight-faced, this close tothe Thanksgiving holiday (for U.S. Christians) and while bitching about Starbucks removing Christmas references from the cups, 'taking the *Christ* out of the holiday! Seems like many have taken the Christ right out of "Christian" with their attitudes about barring others from their backyard. let them remove it, christ was never found at the bottom or the side of a coffee cup anyway..they can have the coffee cups....we have hearts that are stamped...and they are stamped not only at xmas time but all year round......deb 3 Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Interesting thread. Here is another verse, which may be direct than the above: Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world. However, I would also caution to read this verse in its full context: Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God. Therefore put away all filthiness and rampant wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing. If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world. So I would say, perhaps yes, these verses do make a point and are food for thought (all scripture is useful for edification), so a portion of Christians could be wrong...but if we read the full passage in James, I also don't think the other side is completely scriptural either. A lot of anger and judgement, not exactly the most Christ-like way to get a point across (not saying you are doing this but I have also seen a lot of cartoons/memes on FB mocking people of another view point...). When these tensions are high, I think it is good just to step back, and all give each other a bit of mercy. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Samhain Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 No holy book verse ever makes a difference. Because there will always be people who take scripture out of context and use it to suit their own needs. That's why we're in the position we are. Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 You are wrong. Jesus was not and never would ask that his followers only help Christians. Since you believe this though, please cite chapter and verse from the Bible where we are told that Jesus only requires that his followers help Christians I can understand your confusion. This is not what I said. Allow me to assist you. I said that verse isn't about helping (or how Christians treat) others, it's very specifically about something else. There are however plenty of other scriptures where Christians are exhorted to treat their fellow man with dignity and kindness. The one in the title just isn't one of them. The above cited parable of the good samaritan IS however, and there are others. Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Especially since there was no such a thing yet. If anything it would be that one should only help Jews. The quoted passage is speaking of a future time and is in reference to the treatment of followers (disciples) of Christ, who later became known as Christians. The term Christian is not used, as it had not yet been coined. There are of course plenty of scriptures that say to be good toward all, but this ain't one of 'em. Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Many people who publicly identify themselves as Christians in the news and on social media, as well as on forums like this one, are vehemently against assisting Syrian refugees. I am interested in how followers of Jesus defend that position, using this as the definition of Jesus' position on helping poor and needy people. Any takers? Matthew 25:31-46New International Version (NIV) Hi Rejected Rosebud, Sadly, many people identify as Christians yet do not obey Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ, as you quoted, made it clear that his followers are to help other people. The sad thing about Christianity in America is that many American Christians put the USA before the commands of Jesus Christ. That is why for example many Christian Americans support war, even though Jesus Christ commanded his followers to love enemies. Jesus very specifically outlined what love includes: (I boldened some.) But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you. - Luke 6:27-31 (NIV) How many Christians obey Jesus Christ? Without God's help, it is very hard to do what Jesus commands above. Many Christians choose to not obey Jesus Christ. To me however, that's like a person saying they are vegetarian, yet eating beef. Again, not everyone who identifies as a Christian obeys Jesus Christ. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) No holy book verse ever makes a difference. Because there will always be people who take scripture out of context and use it to suit their own needs. That's why we're in the position we are. i have to disagree ....i do believe that you can read scriptures and have them pertain specifically to you as a guide and surely make a difference for yourself enrichment and for others.........so when taking scriptures into your own life ...they are adaptable to everyone who reads them......i feel...and this is my personal feelings on scriptures...that if the scriptures and verses are a guide to helping someone, doing good in the world in general and good to yourself and last of all the betterment of you and those who surround you then the meaning is true..... if the words speak to someones heart like psalms for example in times of trouble and grief..then they are absolutely undeniably true and in context for the individual who is reading them.........the bible is of god....and in among the many translations there is truth to be had.......but...what you do with truth and how you view that truth .....is given with a talent for discernment...and knowing gods purpose for us...which was never bad or evil... if someone reads instructions wrong and builds a nuclear weapon instead of a dog kennel.......it is not the fault or even responsibility of the person who wrote the instructions to build a dog kennel...nor does it make the instructions false or untrue because a dog kennel was not was built ..but maybe what was in the heart of the person reading those instructions and a desire to build a bomb is at fault ...i prefer to build dog kennels and have marched for nuclear disarmament....so when i read the bible...i dont see a way to destroy ...but to hopefully construct something good with my life and be a positive influence to others.... i have no desire to be destructive and when i am down it is often bible verses that soothe my soul..........and for that i thank the writer of the book often..deb Edited November 30, 2015 by todreaminblue 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rejected Rosebud Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 The quoted passage is speaking of a future time and is in reference to the treatment of followers (disciples) of Christ, who later became known as Christians. The term Christian is not used, as it had not yet been coined. Since you brought this up in another thread, I am still waiting for you to defend your absolute assertion! Why does it say: 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, ??? That seems pretty self explanatory to me I am aware that there is a faction of people who believe the way that you do. I've encountered it before. Obviously there are millions of "Christians" posting all over social media that we should build a wall and patrol with guns to keep Mexicans out, and refuse help to any refugees from Islamic parts of the world, I imagine they all have understood this passage the same way you do if they are familiar with the Bible. Anyway Please defend your position since you have no trouble coming in on this thread positively debunking the premise - offer some backup please!! :) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 ??? That seems pretty self explanatory to me Aye... "all the nations" is self explanatory. I am aware that there is a faction of people who believe the way that you do. I've encountered it before. Obviously there are millions of "Christians" posting all over social media that we should build a wall and patrol with guns to keep Mexicans out, and refuse help to any refugees from Islamic parts of the world, I imagine they all have understood this passage the same way you do if they are familiar with the Bible The reason they don't care about helping Mexicans and Muslims is because of fear. Fear however has nothing to do with love. Jesus Christ gave the awesome parable about a Samaritan man helping a robbed and brutally injured Jew while Jewish spiritual leaders did not lift a finger to help him (Luke 10:25-37). In that time, Jews didn't like the Samaritans all that much... yet Jesus has a Samaritan as the hero of his parable because this Samaritan, without caring if the hurt Jew liked him or not, helped him. The phrase "the Good Samaritan" is a part of American culture, yet I don't think many understand that to the Jews, this was an important cultural lesson to love people of other cultures too, because they are neighbors who are to be loved same as people of one's own group. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Many people who publicly identify themselves as Christians in the news and on social media, as well as on forums like this one, are vehemently against assisting Syrian refugees. Are you a Christian? Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 In my opinion, American Christians can and should apply the Good Samaritan parable (Luke 10:25-37) to our Mexican neighbors (and anyone culturally different from us), as well as to our neighbors of different beliefs as well as to our neighbors of no beliefs in the divine. When American Christians do not do this, it hurts people and it does not glorify Jesus Christ. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Since you brought this up in another thread, I am still waiting for you to defend your absolute assertion! Why does it say: All the nations are gathered before him to be judged based on how they treated his disciples. As I said, that scripture does not excuse treating others badly, it's just not the scripture you probably wanted to help make your point, as it's talking about something else. As others have pointed out the good Samaritan is probably the most well known example of one you could have used. Link to post Share on other sites
AspenBaldwin Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 If someone's not a Christian, it's A-OK to treat them like crap! We only have to be good/nice/kind to fellow Christians This reminds me of what Dr Simon Tam told his sister River: -'It's ok to leave them to die'- Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 This reminds me of what Dr Simon Tam told his sister River: -'It's ok to leave them to die'- Funny, but it's not at all what I said. People read the words and then assign the meaning they wish I guess. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rejected Rosebud Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 All the nations are gathered before him to be judged based on how they treated his disciples. As I said, that scripture does not excuse treating others badly, it's just not the scripture you probably wanted to help make your point, as it's talking about something else. You keep insisting this, yet you still haven't shown me how you are coming up with your ideas about the passage I quoted. Please show me where in the Bible it says that the nations are ONLY being judged by how they treated the disciples of Jesus because no matter how many times I read it I can't find anything like that!! :confused: 44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ 45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ You believe that Jesus only meant that ONLY his followers were to be helped when needing clothes or sick or in prison?? :eek: Please show me how you have determined this I am pretty shocked that you read this passage as: Christians are supposed to take care of other Christians, only. As others have pointed out the good Samaritan is probably the most well known example of one you could have used. Um ... I know that parable, who doesn't. I chose this one. On purpose. Link to post Share on other sites
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