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The Religion/Education Connection


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A fact that I'm proud of is that my town was recently named the third smartest small town in America, according to this study:

 

America's Smartest Cities - Forbes

 

Last week my daughter sung in the annual Christmas Concert at the high school and every song was a Christmas song....in a public school. That's virtually unheard of that a public school would not sing songs that are more inclusive but our town has very strong Christian roots so it makes sense that we still honor our traditions.

 

Here is the background:

 

Ocean City, N.J. - Baltimore Sun

 

At this time of year when some people feel that it is necessary to diminish the significance of the Birth of Our Lord or try to mock believers as somehow being less intelligent, all that I can say is...Merry Christmas!!

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A fact that I'm proud of is that my town was recently named the third smartest small town in America, according to this study:

 

America's Smartest Cities - Forbes

 

Last week my daughter sung in the annual Christmas Concert at the high school and every song was a Christmas song....in a public school. That's virtually unheard of that a public school would not sing songs that are more inclusive but our town has very strong Christian roots so it makes sense that we still honor our traditions.

 

Here is the background:

 

Ocean City, N.J. - Baltimore Sun

 

At this time of year when some people feel that it is necessary to diminish the significance of the Birth of Our Lord or try to mock believers as somehow being less intelligent, all that I can say is...Merry Christmas!!

 

We REALLY need a love button!

 

I'm not sure where we rank as far as education goes (probably not too high, it's a CA school), although here the schools sang the Jesus Christmas songs in their plays. You know, I don't think many in CA trip about Christianity and there is a considerable amount of Atheists here.

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We REALLY need a love button!

 

I'm not sure where we rank as far as education goes (probably not too high, it's a CA school), although here the schools sang the Jesus Christmas songs in their plays. You know, I don't think many in CA trip about Christianity and there is a considerable amount of Atheists here.

 

Thanks Pure. :)

 

Christmas just puts me in a really good mood. Last Sunday I helped lug gifts and food that had been donated to my church by locals for people in need.

 

The entire room was stacked high on every wall with toys, games and gifts and there were huge food donations in big big boxes. It warmed my heart.

 

I know of one family that was struggling one Christmas because the mom was sick with cancer. Another family went there with their two young boys and put up a tree and wrapped presents so that the mom could rest instead of worrying about how she'd be able to get it all done.

 

I'm glad you don't see open hostility where you live. In the surrounding areas it's not uncommon that Baby Jesus gets taken from mangers, for what purpose I'll never know.

 

But even some believers can be openly hostile. Some wish it was over before it even gets here.

 

I think they miss the whole meaning of the Occasion, and that makes me sad for them.

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anne amay was not mocking others as being less intelligent.....

 

her thread wasnt an argument......the thread stated the education and religious connection.....amay stated her town has a strong christian roots and upholds them....and also a high regard for education the intertwining of both religion and education in the public school system........i dont see the fight in that.,...where is the argumentative slant anne for i dont see it all?..deb

 

Thanks deb. I really wasn't trying to be argumentative. I was just noticing that one thing very well may have something to do with the other.

 

I can't look at a community that is fortunate enough to be successful in hard times and not correlate it with being blessed by God. I give thanks where it is properly due and I'm sure I'm not alone in that, in my small town and throughout the world.

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todreaminblue
Thanks deb. I really wasn't trying to be argumentative. I was just noticing that one thing very well may have something to do with the other.

 

I can't look at a community that is fortunate enough to be successful in hard times and not correlate it with being blessed by God. I give thanks where it is properly due and I'm sure I'm not alone in that, in my small town and throughout the world.

 

 

 

 

It must be wonderful to live in a town wheres theres that strong belief.....i live in pocket where there isnt strong belief.....and i can tell you what i see and talk about every day....pain.....grief......drugs....alcoholism...domestic violence and ultimately a lot of sadness a fair amount of hopelessness..........i am in no way saying that christianity being absent makes this ver batim in every community but the absence of christianity in my pocket........makes it harder to live life for the community i am in.......me...i wouldnt move...

 

 

 

i want to be in my community to help to show a bit of light for people going through hard times and that includes my family.....i see a lot of grace though......and i believe it comes from god....little things that are wonderful....i notice things...slices of hope for em to share from above.......and that keeps me going.......one day belief and faith in christ will be on everyones lips....and that day will be a day of peace and rest i feel in my community...for the world........until then.....ill share the hope i have amay ..true christianity builds up souls......helps and never harms....it endures.....it is praiseworthy and it is simply.....lovely.....no argument to be had....just faith peace and rest...from quite a cold and obstinate world.....hugs from me to you...deb

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Hi Deb. I'm having a rough time right now because I learned that the girl who killed herself from the high school was bullied. A lot.

 

And she was Muslim.

 

I asked my daughter if she was bullied because she was Muslim and she said "I don't know but probably...the world is pretty fcked up"

 

The more I think about it the more it makes my stomach hurt.

 

I can only hope that good things come from this and lessons are learned...even if the lesson is how NOT to treat people.

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evanescentworld
....All I have asked is why you post a thread title which suggests there is a connection between intelligence and religion. There is absolutely nothing in the article that suggest that. Religion is not even mentioned.

 

Actually, it's possible that the complete reverse is true.

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todreaminblue
Hi Deb. I'm having a rough time right now because I learned that the girl who killed herself from the high school was bullied. A lot.

 

And she was Muslim.

 

I asked my daughter if she was bullied because she was Muslim and she said "I don't know but probably...the world is pretty fcked up"

 

The more I think about it the more it makes my stomach hurt.

 

I can only hope that good things come from this and lessons are learned...even if the lesson is how NOT to treat people.

 

 

i think really that we have to be strong because it isnt going to get better amay.......its going to get a lot worse before it gets better.....i have a theory that bullying is actually a disease a contagion that infects everyone it touches...it is meant to......its from satan.......

 

i also know that anything good pure and right will have opposition...if it doesnt have opposition and everyone agrees ...it isnt good right and pure.......for evil opposes all that is good.....and makes it known......when you have opposition when you write about something positive and good and heart warming..or even soemthign youw rite that is sad ....you add hoep fro change........be glad......you are writing what you are meant to write when you get oppostion..and you will see......that along with opposition you have steadfast support....rock on.......debxo

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I’d hesitate to correlate the two.

We lived in the most educated city in America according to this list.

The Most And Least Educated Cities In America - Forbes

But it wasn’t religious. Religion in Ann Arbor, Michigan

I don’t know if we were smart, but we had a lot of education. lol

 

I wouldn’t necessarily link choir music to belief, either, because my daughter was in the public high school choir there and they sang religious music, like Handel’s Hallelujah chorus, but it was because it’s traditional and challenging. Also, I know waaaaay too many brilliant people who aren't Christian or religious in any way.

 

But I’m glad you love your town, and I do admire the Jesuit educational tradition. Both my daughter and I went to Jesuit law schools, but we're not Jesuits and there was no proselytizing, so it worked for us.

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Thanks Pure. :)

 

Christmas just puts me in a really good mood. Last Sunday I helped lug gifts and food that had been donated to my church by locals for people in need.

 

The entire room was stacked high on every wall with toys, games and gifts and there were huge food donations in big big boxes. It warmed my heart.

 

I know of one family that was struggling one Christmas because the mom was sick with cancer. Another family went there with their two young boys and put up a tree and wrapped presents so that the mom could rest instead of worrying about how she'd be able to get it all done.

 

I'm glad you don't see open hostility where you live. In the surrounding areas it's not uncommon that Baby Jesus gets taken from mangers, for what purpose I'll never know.

 

But even some believers can be openly hostile. Some wish it was over before it even gets here.

 

I think they miss the whole meaning of the Occasion, and that makes me sad for them.

 

Just an awesome post AG- I get the feeling it's not only Christmas that puts you in a good mood, it's helping others...so awesome! Hey, I'll be praying for the family in your town that you helped...wow, again just awesome...

 

Ya, here it's kind of unpopular not to worship the Lord, so for that I am so grateful.

 

Just FTR want to say this, yes I complain about the schools here at times, but the teachers are top notch. They try really hard, but are bound by the endless rules that ties their hands in some cases. Some of them don't care and do what they feel is best.

 

Merry, Merry Christmas to yuz guyz...lol saw 'Jersey Boys' last night and love the NJ style and accent ...thought of you, TFOTY and TP ...

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Actually, it's possible that the complete reverse is true.

 

Actually, I am greatly encouraged by this article on the benefits of faith and its expansive effect on the mind. With God, all things are possible... especially the impossible things. :bunny::bunny::bunny:

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Amy, you have to understand that there are people who have chosen to believe that every person who has faith HAS TO be of inferior intelligence to believe in the flying spaghetti monster. There is lots of data that disputes the "all people who believe in God must have inferior minds" arrogance, but accepting this would force them to shift their paradigm.

 

There are intelligent and stupid believers. There are intelligent and stupid atheists.

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At this time of year when some people feel that it is necessary to diminish the significance of the Birth of Our Lord or try to mock believers as somehow being less intelligent, all that I can say is...Merry Christmas!!

 

Amen. And Merry Christmas!!

 

So is the OP saying that they feel that the reason that the town\city has rated so well intellectually is that it has strong Christian values and traditions or not ? I'm confused.

 

To me, the gist of the thread is that, though many may think that being Christian means being less intelligent, this town seems to offer some evidence otherwise.

 

Not "intelligence is due to Christian values".

 

Now be honest wuggle! Have you ever thought someone to be less intelligent because they had religious beliefs?

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it is also incumbent on that individual to not only defend their opinion, but also to not only objectively listen to all arguments against their belief, but to actually consider the merits of such counter-argument and, crucially, where they can offer no defense in position of a belief they hold, to change this belief in the light of evidence to the contrary.

 

Uh, no. It is incumbent upon an individual to decide what they believe or do not believe. There is no requirement that they allow others to try to change their mind, belittle them, or otherwise "help" them become "enlightened." It is also not incumbent upon them to try to convince people who have already chosen not only to not be convinced, but have decided they have the right to disparage.

 

BTW, I fixed your spelling error. Guess I'm not so stupid after all ;)

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todreaminblue
Uh, no. It is incumbent upon an individual to decide what they believe or do not believe. There is no requirement that they allow others to try to change their mind, belittle them, or otherwise "help" them become "enlightened." It is also not incumbent upon them to try to convince people who have already chosen not only to not be convinced, but have decided they have the right to disparage.

 

BTW, I fixed your spelling error. Guess I'm not so stupid after all ;)

 

your post inspired me autumn....

 

i am walking along a path.......the path is beautiful.......simple....easy to navigate......the beauty is in the simplicity of the path people even have an iron rod to hold on when the path gets steep.......why would i leave the iron rod and the simple path to go down some unknown path cast in shadow insecurity and uncertainty.......why would i listen to people saying you are deluded unintelligent parasite who knows no better you need insecurity to really live life........that would make me unintelligent...why would anyone ....when they know they have an iron rod to hold on to .....when the path is on a mountain.....let go...i am not ashamed of needing something to hold onto to get through life.....as my beliefs stand and will stand .....with a little help from above through the hard times with a book of comforting words i understand to hold onto and gratefulness given to god above.... when the path is clear.............deb

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I am most definitely on a path. I just have a strong belief about what the ending will be. If I'm wrong I have lost nothing. if I am right I have gained everything. So despite my IQ and academic achievements, I do not see myself "abandoning" it as I become more "enlightened."

 

I really don't see a correlation between IQ, intelligence and belief. Some of the people I respect most, people on a 'path' have held a belief in a\god. (Einstein Bohr etc). Einstein battled all his life in trying to tie in the 'belief' he had been passed down by his parents with the evidence of his own huge intellect, a constant battle. Many other fantastically intelligent people likewise.

 

 

As long as someone doesn't 'stand-still' and just doggedly 'stick' on a particular belief , they have my respect.

 

 

Be true to yourself, if you see that something doesn't stack up, then don't lie to yourself. if you don't lie to yourself just for 'comfort' , then I have no problem where on the 'path' you are.

 

 

as long as you keep on it. :)

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I used to try to convince and logic someone into being "wrong" and me being "right." There were several problems with that:

 

1. That rarely every works. When you put someone on the defensive and imply they are wrong, they are not going to listen. I don't blame them. I would either

 

2. I am statistically and objectively smart, but I don't know everything. To try to convince someone that I am some kind of authority would be highly flawed

 

3. Though I believe blind faith in nothing - like me believing that because I feel really lightheaded right now I could probably fly off my roof - is foolhardy, faith is never completely logical. If I am an expert electrician and engineer then I do not have faith that the light will come on when I flip the switch. I am just reaching the logical conclusion that my expertise has allowed me to reach. FAITH that is actual faith has an element that is not "logical" in the sense that we understand logic. It is why Hebrews 11:1 states that "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen" before the rest of the chapter goes on to outline the lives of Biblical figures who did things/lived "by faith."

 

4. It's above my pay grade. I can share, I can pray, I can be compassionate, I can be passionate, I can tell my story, I can talk about my understanding of The Bible. But convincing really isn't my job. And it has been my experience that those who DO think convincing is their job end up becoming some of the most rude, obnoxious, arrogant Christians I have ever encountered.

 

So while I may passionately share or express what I believe, I will never try to talk someone into a corner or belittle or bludgeon with a giant King James (I am one of those heretics that prefers NIV or NAS anyhow ;) )

 

So no, because I do not seek to use my faith to win an argument, it is not incumbent upon me to sit and allow someone to try to dismantle it. Believe me, after all I have been through in nearly a half century, and all of the questioning I have done and still do, if I have not dismantled it myself, no one else is likely to.

 

I'm just a soft hearted woman who has been redeemed of much, has been convinced by things I cannot explain, has joy in believing, and wants to be like more like Jesus and less like me a whole lot.

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Actually, I am greatly encouraged by this article on the benefits of faith and its expansive effect on the mind. With God, all things are possible... especially the impossible things. :bunny::bunny::bunny:

 

This ^^^^^^ right there. You've encouraged me big time tonight, thank you!!!!

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40 deleted off topic and or posts that were nothing more than fighting rather than debating.

 

There is NOTHING in the guidelines that allows disrespectful arguing and sometimes attacking posts to be allowed, posters must respect each others opinions while giving theirs.

 

Carry on, and let's keep to the topic please

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Satan can be interpreted as a metaphor in the Bible.

 

Much of the OT reads like an allegory to me. The creation story, the Tower of Babel, Jonah, Esther, Noah's Ark, the list goes on. It's not surprising because of the oral tradition. I think a lot of those stories were probably just that, stories handed down from one generation to the next. I think there is some veracity in the books with the kings, but even some of that feels allegorical to me. Now, Satan is interesting. Is he mentioned anywhere else in the OT besides Genesis and Job?

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Much of the OT reads like an allegory to me. The creation story, the Tower of Babel, Jonah, Esther, Noah's Ark, the list goes on. It's not surprising because of the oral tradition. I think a lot of those stories were probably just that, stories handed down from one generation to the next. I think there is some veracity in the books with the kings, but even some of that feels allegorical to me. Now, Satan is interesting. Is he mentioned anywhere else in the OT besides Genesis and Job?

 

If you wouldn't mind I'd like to start a discussion on this topic, basing it on your post. Thinking it would be really interesting as it would pull out a lot of info...so know it's not to call you (or anyone) out.

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Yep, Isaiah for one.

 

I know the reference is made to Lucifer in Isaiah. Is Satan mentioned also? How did the two get morphed into one figure? I don't have the answer to any of these questions, but I'd be happy to listen if anyone has some insight.

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