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Just thought this was a good explanation concerning the Rapture and a couple of events there after.

 

 

Don McGee

 

Great article! Just out of curiosoty, is he related to Vernon McGee?

 

I believe that the amount of people taken in the rapture will be so slim that it might not be as monumental of an event as people expect.

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pureinheart
Great article! Just out of curiosoty, is he related to Vernon McGee?

 

I believe that the amount of people taken in the rapture will be so slim that it might not be as monumental of an event as people expect.

 

You know, I never thought of this...excellent observation! I'll check it out, wouldn't that be a trip! Vernon McGee is so close to my heart. I have a lot of his teachings on cassette which dates me...lol and listened to him along with others on my radio programs. There was nothing like getting ready for work and hearing the Word...thinking it's time to get back on track and start listening more.

 

What are your thoughts, and this is an open question to all, concerning children and the Rapture?

 

You do have a really good point here because if there was a ton of Christians, you'd think most would be saved after the Rapture occurs, although according to the Word this isn't the case. The majority will think the "negative" influence is removed, but after what you said it won't be that big of an impact.

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What are your thoughts, and this is an open question to all, concerning children and the Rapture?

 

pih, that is such a good question! I hadn't thought of that. I would say that many children will be automatically included in the rapture. Just as if they pass away at a young age now (without accepting Christ), I think they'll go right to heaven.

 

What do you think?

 

You do have a really good point here because if there was a ton of Christians, you'd think most would be saved after the Rapture occurs, although according to the Word this isn't the case. The majority will think the "negative" influence is removed, but after what you said it won't be that big of an impact

 

Now, what about a verse that says two people will be in a field, one will be taken? Sometimes that makes me think that the amount of people won't be as small as we sometime think (as that example gives a 50% chance of being taken).

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Glinda.Good

I'm curious. How are you so positive that your love of divine space ships is not edging towards the dreaded satanic "new age" blight?

 

Who is the Prince of the Power of the Air?

 

Is conjecture about UFO part of the exclusionary nature of God's love, which you so embrace?

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I'm curious. How are you so positive that your love of divine space ships is not edging towards the dreaded satanic "new age" blight?

 

Who is the Prince of the Power of the Air?

 

Is conjecture about UFO part of the exclusionary nature of God's love, which you so embrace?

 

You clearly don't read my posts. The very point of that link is that the UFO phenomenon will be used to explain away what really happened in the rapture. Instead of recognizing that Jehovah and his angels took the followers of Christ, it will be explained as a mass UFO abduction. Now, technically, it WILL be a mass UFO abduction, but not in the popular sci-fi sense or the way it's portrayed in Hollywood movies.

 

In other words, the rapture is only a UFO abduction in the same sense that Enoch and Elijah being taken by the fiery chariots were "UFO abductions". I'm afraid the connotations of the term "UFO" is where the deception lies. We will be told they are "aliens" or "space brothers" or "ancient astronauts"--and not who they really are. And we also will be lied to about their purpose. We will be told that the bad people are being taken away, when in reality it will be the elect of Jesus Christ.

Edited by M30USA
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pureinheart

 

Excellent! This gives the perfect explanation doesn't it! I think the timing is interesting also. They too know time is short and there will be a need to "explain it away" to further deceive...I love Chuck M. BTW

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pureinheart
pih, that is such a good question! I hadn't thought of that. I would say that many children will be automatically included in the rapture. Just as if they pass away at a young age now (without accepting Christ), I think they'll go right to heaven.

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

Now, what about a verse that says two people will be in a field, one will be taken? Sometimes that makes me think that the amount of people won't be as small as we sometime think (as that example gives a 50% chance of being taken).

 

You know, I think there's one of two explanations. Either all children before the age of accountability go to heaven or God knows what their choice would have been.

 

Pie you have a point, I would have to really get into that verse ...but if it's taken literally I think your's would be the correct answer- much food for thought gf!

 

Right before checking this thread I watched a report of what is going on with the treatment of Christians in the ME/Europe. At the rate things are going and the general thinking and attitudes there's a possibility most won't have the chance to be Raptured...it's bad over there...

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As far as the age of accountability debate, remember that God can always do as he pleases. I happen to believe all unborn babies go to heaven but that's my opinion and I can't bank on it.

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You know, I think there's one of two explanations. Either all children before the age of accountability go to heaven or God knows what their choice would have been.

 

Pie you have a point, I would have to really get into that verse ...but if it's taken literally I think your's would be the correct answer- much food for thought gf!

 

Right before checking this thread I watched a report of what is going on with the treatment of Christians in the ME/Europe. At the rate things are going and the general thinking and attitudes there's a possibility most won't have the chance to be Raptured...it's bad over there...

 

Yeah, that would just be a very literal way of reading the verse (about two people in a field), but I guess it gives me some hope about the state of humanity.

 

Regarding the children, I do think all children under the age of accountability would be in a special category. But imagine, all children about 12 and under just disappearing...they would just get a free pass. But then, after the rapture, children would continue to be born. What about them? Poor things will have to suffer through the really rough times, I guess? :(

 

(I imagine these conversations must look so weird to non-believers, lol!)

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Another thing to remember when discussing age of accountability:

 

Ultimately anyone who winds up in heaven will be there because of God's doing, not their own. This is not just in regard to Christ's atonement for them, but also for the person's decision to even accept Christ. Salvation, according to Scripture, is a gift from God. Everyone is dead in sin from before birth (even babies).

 

So if God can, in his discretion, pick certain adult individuals to save, why not babies? Salvation begins with God choosing us and isn't dependent upon our worth, intellect, physical size, or stage in life. If he wants to save all babies, he can. If he wants to save 50% of babies, he can. If he wants to save no babies, he can. If he wants to save babies from one lineage (such as Abraham) and not from another (such as Ham), he can.

 

However, my guess as I've said is that he will save all unborn babies.

Edited by M30USA
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However, my guess as I've said is that he will save all unborn babies.

 

Why unborn babies and not born babies? Do you classify infants and toddlers in the same category as 20-80 year-olds? If not, how are they different to you, and what do you think about their salvation? How can a 3-year-old guarantee his salvation?

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Why unborn babies and not born babies? Do you classify infants and toddlers in the same category as 20-80 year-olds? If not, how are they different to you, and what do you think about their salvation? How can a 3-year-old guarantee his salvation?

 

You have solidified your status as the million dollar question asker. I don't know the answer.

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You have solidified your status as the million dollar question asker. I don't know the answer.

 

What?! M30...you must have a reason, a bible verse, something?! :D:p:D

 

For real, you must have a reason why unborn babies are different? Is it in the bible? Truly, I don't know much about this stuff, lol :)

 

But if you really don't have a biblical basis to this hypothesis...I'm going to assume your theory has something to do with UFOs, and will sleep well tonight thinking that toddlers and infants are innocent enough that God gives them a free pass. :p

 

j/k...I'll try to look more into it. You don't have to do all the hard work!

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Okay, if we must have a verse:

 

"For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."" (Romans 9:15)

 

Like I said, God can do as he pleases. We humans like to find formulas for everything. It's only natural. But God is a person, not a formula. If two people make the exact same decisions in life and, from a human standpoint, are equal morally, God still reserves the right to have compassion on one and not the other. Any "unfairness", I assure you, is merely due to our limited human understanding. There are clearly things at play on a spiritual level that we haven't the foggiest idea of.

 

The same concept applies to babies. The only reason it gets confusing is because we are limited by the fourth dimension (time) and can't see the past and future as one. Perhaps God doesn't see a baby like we do; maybe he sees it as a baby and a full-grown adult at once. Doesn't God know the past and future? Why would this not apply to how he sees babies? For all we know, even if a baby dies, he might see who he or she is as an adult and therefore can make his decision on that.

 

I'm just throwing ideas out. This is not a subject I will defend strongly so feel free to chip in.

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Okay, if we must have a verse:

 

"For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."" (Romans 9:15)

 

Like I said, God can do as he pleases. We humans like to find formulas for everything. It's only natural. But God is a person, not a formula. If two people make the exact same decisions in life and, from a human standpoint, are equal morally, God still reserves the right to have compassion on one and not the other. Any "unfairness", I assure you, is merely due to our limited human understanding. There are clearly things at play on a spiritual level that we haven't the foggiest idea of.

 

 

Yes, we must :)

 

Ok, but really, if two people accept Jesus with their whole hearts, God has to accept them into heaven, or else that would make God a liar, imo. To me, my problem wouldn't be the unfairness (as I agree with you, my perception of "fair" is extremely limited). I just think there are avenues that God has made for people to be accepted by God, and if God doesn't uphold that, then he wouldn't be the God of Truth...he would be the God of Lies (and we all know who that really is! :p).

 

The same concept applies to babies. The only reason it gets confusing is because we are limited by the fourth dimension (time) and can't see the past and future as one. Perhaps God doesn't see a baby like we do; maybe he sees it as a baby and a full-grown adult at once. Doesn't God know the past and future? Why would this not apply to how he sees babies? For all we know, even if a baby dies, he might see who he or she is as an adult and therefore can make his decision on that.

 

I'm just throwing ideas out. This is not a subject I will defend strongly so feel free to chip in

 

That was exactly my thought on babies too. Like, what if baby Bin Laden were taken up in the rapture? Seems awful, when we know what he was capable of. But, no, I don't think we're held accountable for sins we haven't done, prior to really understanding good and evil.

 

This article offers a biblical basis to the belief that all infants/children go to heaven if they pass away:

 

The Salvation of the "Little Ones"...by R. Mohler and D. Akin

 

They touch on:

 

 

  • Original Sin: We're all guilty of it from the moment of conception, but we won't be judged based on this sin, we'll be judged based on sins we commit in this body.
  • Israel in the Desert: God sentenced Israel to wander desert for 40 years, but omitted infants and children from this sentence. It is mentioned that the bible states it's because the children have no knowledge of good vs. evil. (Personally, I think kids know right from wrong, but not the implication of evil...at least before a certain age)

Then this article goes on to mention:

 

  • David and Bathsheba: They lost an infant son, and David stated they would be reunited one day.
  • Revelation 7:9: The bible says that the number of souls saved is very large, and there will be people in heaven of every tribe, nation, and people. Possibly helping increase the numbers would be all the young infants (many of whom miscarried before birth) and children who died prematurely (even if they never heard anything about the word of God).

 

 

So, yeah, I think the "little ones" get an automatic pass.

 

 

 

But, will they be taken in the Rapture? This article points to yes, as well, but says there is really no solid biblical prophecy clarifying either way.

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Pie, remember that even our "choice" to accept Christ is given to us by God. In seminary theology courses, students learn (hopefully) the concept of radical depravity--meaning there is ZERO goodness in man himself and man has ZERO capability of living up to God's Law. So if this is the case, then where does our "choice" to accept Christ originate? Saying that it's OUR choice implies there must be at least some goodness in us to enable us to know our need for Christ. But we know we don't even have that. This is why the Bible says we can't even take credit for our faith. Faith itself is a gift from God. Without his intervention we would have zero faith.

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TheFinalWord
For real, you must have a reason why unborn babies are different? Is it in the bible? Truly, I don't know much about this stuff, lol :)

 

One possible biblical aid:

 

 

  • On the seventh day the baby died. David’s servants were afraid to tell him that the baby was dead. They said, “Look, we tried to talk to David while the baby was alive, but he refused to listen to us. If we tell him the baby is dead, he may do something awful.”
  • When David saw his servants whispering, he knew that the baby was dead. So he asked them, “Is the baby dead?”
  • They answered, “Yes, he is dead.”
  • Then David got up from the floor, washed himself, put lotions on, and changed his clothes. Then he went into the Lord’s house to worship. After that, he went home and asked for something to eat. His servants gave him some food, and he ate.
  • David’s servants said to him, “Why are you doing this? When the baby was still alive, you fasted and you cried. Now that the baby is dead, you get up and eat food.”
  • David said, “While the baby was still alive, I fasted, and I cried. I thought, ‘Who knows? Maybe the Lord will feel sorry for me and let the baby live.’ But now that the baby is dead, why should I fast? I can’t bring him back to life. Someday I will go to him, but he cannot come back to me.

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Pie, remember that even our "choice" to accept Christ is given to us by God. In seminary theology courses, students learn (hopefully) the concept of radical depravity--meaning there is ZERO goodness in man himself and man has ZERO capability of living up to God's Law. So if this is the case, then where does our "choice" to accept Christ originate? Saying that it's OUR choice implies there must be at least some goodness in us to enable us to know our need for Christ. But we know we don't even have that. This is why the Bible says we can't even take credit for our faith. Faith itself is a gift from God. Without his intervention we would have zero faith.

 

I think this is a discussion for a different thread, lol! :)

 

Calvinism vs Arminianism ? Comparison Chart

 

Pie, remember that even our "choice" to accept Christ is given to us by God. In seminary theology courses, students learn (hopefully) the concept of radical depravity--meaning there is ZERO goodness in man himself and man has ZERO capability of living up to God's Law. So if this is the case, then where does our "choice" to accept Christ originate? Saying that it's OUR choice implies there must be at least some goodness in us to enable us to know our need for Christ. But we know we don't even have that. This is why the Bible says we can't even take credit for our faith. Faith itself is a gift from God. Without his intervention we would have zero faith.

 

I think this is a discussion for a different thread, lol! :)

 

Calvinism vs Arminianism ? Comparison Chart

 

 

One possible biblical aid:

 

 

  • On the seventh day the baby died. David’s servants were afraid to tell him that the baby was dead. They said, “Look, we tried to talk to David while the baby was alive, but he refused to listen to us. If we tell him the baby is dead, he may do something awful.”
  • ....
  • David said, “While the baby was still alive, I fasted, and I cried. I thought, ‘Who knows? Maybe the Lord will feel sorry for me and let the baby live.’ But now that the baby is dead, why should I fast? I can’t bring him back to life. Someday I will go to him, but he cannot come back to me.

 

 

Very beautiful illustration.

 

 

 

Also points out a little about reincarnation too. David says his baby can't come back to him. Even though sometimes people wonder or feel like someone we know has returned in spirit...they really can't. :o

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TheFinalWord
Also points out a little about reincarnation too. David says his baby can't come back to him. Even though sometimes people wonder or feel like someone we know has returned in spirit...they really can't. :o

 

Good point. I didn't think of that. The beauty of group bible studies :)

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pureinheart
Yeah, that would just be a very literal way of reading the verse (about two people in a field), but I guess it gives me some hope about the state of humanity.

 

Regarding the children, I do think all children under the age of accountability would be in a special category. But imagine, all children about 12 and under just disappearing...they would just get a free pass. But then, after the rapture, children would continue to be born. What about them? Poor things will have to suffer through the really rough times, I guess? :(

 

(I imagine these conversations must look so weird to non-believers, lol!)

 

Pie, I haven't read the rest of the posts, so hope this isn't a duplicate, BUT you have brought up a most intriguing point. If all children go in the Rapture, that will be hard to explain away. Even with the alien theory, of which I agree with completely and remember hearing about that a very long time ago, those who firmly believe this is real, I think would have many doubts. They may go along with the popular version, but deep down...

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