Jump to content

New Pope weighs in on gays


Recommended Posts

HokeyReligions

I'm not Catholic but I didn't think it was up to a pope to make broad changes to the Word of God as its been preached for centuries. From a personal standpoint no, its not up to him to pass judgements, but if he is speaking for God, who is he to do that either?

 

I think its going to upset far more people than are happy about it.

 

For me I believe a persons sexuality is just one facet of an individual and not my business. Since its human nature to judge I try to only judge a person based on what we have in common and can share, and what we bring to a relationship. Friendship is a relationship. There are working relationships and romantic relationships and I judge all of them differently and interact within each differently.

 

God judges on a totally different plane. How the pope judges is up to him but he's got to take into consideration every Catholic and every person. I thought his judgement as a pope would not go beyond that so he must compartmentalize his judgement.

 

I dunno. I'm not Catholic so it doesn't effect me and I'm too tired to think hard about. Maybe I'll pray about it and bring it up in church next week. We are looking for a new church (well hubby is mainly) and I have a few questions I ask the ministers to help me judge if the ministry is aligned with my core beliefs but still can challenge me and I can learn more and find fellowship. Hmmmm.... FELLOWship. Thats for a different thread:bunny:

Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not Catholic but I didn't think it was up to a pope to make broad changes to the Word of God as its been preached for centuries.

But centuries before that, Gay marriage was apparently sanctioned by the early church...

According to this report.

 

So, Christians just change their minds every few hundred years on what is acceptable, I guess. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Link to post
Share on other sites

The pope needs to read his Bible. Judging sin is different than judging a person's eternal fate. How is this worldwide religion being led by a person who is so ignorant of the Scriptures?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

as usual, the secular media has missed the whole point of his dialogue with them: "Pope Francis reiterated the Church’s belief that having a homosexual orientation is not sinful but engaging in homosexual acts is" ... papal chat with reporters.

 

he's saying what every pope before him has said. That we love the sinner and hate the sin, that we still embrace those who seek Christ and beckon others to draw nearer.

Edited by quankanne
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
as usual, the secular media has missed the whole point of his dialogue with them: "Pope Francis reiterated the Church’s belief that having a homosexual orientation is not sinful but engaging in homosexual acts is" ... papal chat with reporters.

 

he's saying what every pope before him has said. That we love the sinner and hate the sin, that we still embrace those who seek Christ and beckon others to draw nearer.

I'm not sure about that if you consider this excerpt. While he did have ulterior motives of wanting to protect marriage, he's still condoning homosexual acts by supporting civil unions.

 

In 2010, as cardinal of Argentina, Francis worked behind the scenes to persuade bishops to support civil unions for gay couples — primarily because he saw them as a way to ward off full-fledged marriage for gays.
Link to post
Share on other sites
He says, "Who am I to judge them?"

 

In the article, it says the quote is, "If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them?"

 

I think that's a pretty widespread belief in Christianity. We can't judge another's walk with God. We can only pray that each day we continue to grow, and align ourselves with the person God wants us to be.

 

At the same time, the bible is clear on many sins, including greed, sexual immorality, thieves, alcoholics, and people practicing homosexuality (just to name a few!). See 1 Corinthians 6:9-18.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
pureinheart
In the article, it says the quote is, "If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them?"

 

I think that's a pretty widespread belief in Christianity. We can't judge another's walk with God. We can only pray that each day we continue to grow, and align ourselves with the person God wants us to be.

 

At the same time, the bible is clear on many sins, including greed, sexual immorality, thieves, alcoholics, and people practicing homosexuality (just to name a few!). See 1 Corinthians 6:9-18.

 

IMO the Pope is both a spiritual and a political leader, therefore has a greater responsibility.

 

We are to love the sinner, yet hate the sin and tell the truth...again IMO by this statement the Pope is condoning homosexuality and to me an open ended message. Being a leader I think he needs to be plain and clear concerning his stand.

 

If I walked in a church drunker than a skunk, I would hope one of the members wouldn't give me a can of beer (or 5 cans), I would hope they would say hey, you're drunk and Jesus is here to deliver you.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
If I walked in a church drunker than a skunk, I would hope one of the members wouldn't give me a can of beer (or 5 cans), I would hope they would say hey, you're drunk and Jesus is here to deliver you.

 

True! (lol, you're funny)

 

Jesus is here to deliver us all from so much. We all have our cross(es!) to bear.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not Catholic but I didn't think it was up to a pope to make broad changes to the Word of God as its been preached for centuries.

 

Actually, according to Catholic beliefs, he can according to Mathew 16:18-19.

 

18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

 

19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

 

By Catholic beliefs, this is where Jesus bestowed power in the papacy and made Peter the first Pope. He also gave him the power to declare what is and is not sin.

 

I really don't understand the fuss. To me he is only saying that it isn't his place to judge - let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

He still stated the homosexuality is a sin. He also said that the act is the sin, not the inclination. Likewise, if I am tempted to sin and resist, as Jesus allegedly was temped by Satan, that isn't a sin.

Edited by Robert Z
Link to post
Share on other sites
He still stated the homosexuality is a sin. He also said that the act is the sin, not the inclination. Likewise, if I am tempted to sin and resist, as Jesus allegedly was temped by Satan, that isn't a sin.

 

I agree with this.

 

I don't think the goal is to turn from homosexuality and pray to be straight. I think the goal for all of us is to turn from sin and put our focus/effort/passions into God.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

My mother is old and frail and not in good health, so I check in with her frequently. Today, she, being a devout Catholic, asked if I had heard about this. She was very happy with the Pope and what he said. So she asked what I thought.

 

I mentioned this thread and told her that as an ex-Catholic, it is incredibly ironic that I am constantly put in a position of defending the Pope. :laugh: Ex-Catholics are often known for their Catholic bashing, but there is so much unjustified animosity against the Pope that I keep finding myself defending what he says.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
HighheelsAries

It's a case of the pope changing the basic tenets of his faith because its politically correct to be accepting of gays. Read your bible- God condemns the act of homosexuality.

On the other hand I have no problem with gays and ignore the pope.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
GorillaTheater
My mother is old and frail and not in good health, so I check in with her frequently. Today, she, being a devout Catholic, asked if I had heard about this. She was very happy with the Pope and what he said. So she asked what I thought.

 

I mentioned this thread and told her that as an ex-Catholic, it is incredibly ironic that I am constantly put in a position of defending the Pope. :laugh: Ex-Catholics are often known for their Catholic bashing, but there is so much unjustified animosity against the Pope that I keep finding myself defending what he says.

 

Lapsed Catholic here, too, and in the same boat. What's the big deal about homosexuality, as far as sins go? Is it some kind of "extra naughty" sin? I looked at a passage out of Ezekiel: "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me..."

 

So homosexuality, assuming that's the "detestable" reference, is last on the list, behind stuff that all of us, gay or not, are guilty of. So why the expectation for the Pope to condemn gays any more than the rest of us?

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Is it some kind of "extra naughty" sin?

 

That is the question that allowed me to find personal resolution to this issue. Back in the day I was highly judgmental of homosexuals. I didn't express this openly but struggled with the dichotomy between civil rights and religious teachings. In the end it finally dawned on me that this is just another sin [oh yes an abomination but then aren't so many things :D]. What makes their sins any worse than my sins? And on top of my personal shortcomings I was only adding the judgment of others to the list - something that goes directly against the teachings of Christ.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the controversy came because the headline writers left the impression that the Pope said that actually engaging in sexual relationships, not just publicly stating a preference was okay, or at least not a concern of the church.

 

Then some think he is okay with that since there becomes a population who "must" remain celibate, for life, thus might help fill vacant positions for which celibacy is the norm if not actually required. I don't think married priest who are accepted from other denominations are supposed to live with their spouse as brother and sister.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Romans is such a powerful book. It never ceases to amaze. :)

 

There is an awesome book on this topic that I cant wait to get my hands on http://www.amazon.com/The-Suicide-American-Christianity-Drinking

 

The Catholic Church has sold out, IMO. A lot of Christians have no backbone, and play it safe by appeasing the PC crowd. I don't hate homosexuals at all, but I don't think society should be promoting their sinful acts as normal, especially in the classrooms of young children. I think the Pope should of said a little bit more.

 

But at the end of the day, what the Pope says, or does, is irrelevant to me. I read the Bible, and have my own personal relationship with God.

 

I agree that it becomes easy to slip slowly into the patterns of appeasement, as I think initially it's done out of love. It's loving to tolerate, right? Unfortunately, not always. We (myself included!) are instructed to be brave, and speak the truth. But, I think we walk on a narrow tightrope, making the balance between giving someone the information they need, and then being a loving light in the world.

 

I initially couldn't open the link for the book you posted. Was it this book:

 

The Suicide of American Christianity: Drinking the "Cool"-Aid of Secular Humanism: Michael D. LeMay: 9781449749637: Amazon.com: Books

 

Sounds interesting...

Edited by pie2
Link to post
Share on other sites
The Catholic Church has sold out, IMO. A lot of Christians have no backbone, and play it safe by appeasing the PC crowd. I don't hate homosexuals at all, but I don't think society should be promoting their sinful acts as normal, especially in the classrooms of young children. I think the Pope should of said a little bit more.

 

But at the end of the day, what the Pope says, or does, is irrelevant to me. I read the Bible, and have my own personal relationship with God.

 

So the Catholic church has sold out because the Pope should have said a little bit more?

 

He wasn't promoting homosexuality as normal. So what does your statement have to do with his or the church selling out?

Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...