Jump to content

Athiests, where do you get your moral values?


Recommended Posts

I was pretty much raised with christian values and therefore my current moral decisions are based on Christian values.

 

I think to myself, if I didn't feel accountable to God, how would I make my moral judgements?

 

I feel like if I didn't have these moral values based on Christian principles, there would be no "wrong" I could do.

 

I would be completely free to do anything without guilt. (doesn't sound too bad actually)

 

anyway, Atheists, where do you get your moral values/judgements and how do you decipher whats "wrong"?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Trojan John

The noble eightfold path and Confucian ethics? Moral relativism? :)

 

It's a simple matter of respecting and not bringing harm to others because 1) I would want the same from them, and 2) I have no right nor a desire to bring harm or ill-will to another, especially since doing the exact opposite will enrich my life and theirs. I don't stop myself because I think that a deity is looking over my shoulder and judging me.

 

I mean, there are a lot of people with Christian values who still do some pretty heinous things.

Link to post
Share on other sites
westernxer

Morality is overrated.

 

I'd rather have common sense, especially for ad-hoc situations that necessitate flexibility.

 

That being said, I still have my principles. LOL

Link to post
Share on other sites

Question 1: Who says you have to be Christian to be a good "moral" person?

What about Buddhists? They don't even hurt flies!!!

What about Serial Killers who kill according to what they decipher out of the bible?

What about the Wars going on in Jersulam that are over Christian beliefs?

911 was "supposedly" done as an attack sent by god to clean out the immoral.

What about Christians judging and looking down upon anyone who opposes their beliefs?

 

If this is what Christian belief gives you why do you want it?

 

A god that makes you live in fear that if you sin before you die and cannot repent in time you go to hell (my grandmothers Weslyn raising).

 

NO THANKS!

 

 

I personally find solace in my "personal" spirituality. And believe ALOT in karma. Do unto others as you would have done to yourself.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe we are created in the Divine image, and that no matter where our spiritual path leads – or how we do our best to abstain from a spiritual belief – we still respond to that spark of divinity.

 

it's the only way I can figure how those who professe to be agnostic or atheistic or even follow one of thousands of spiritual paths/religions possess an innate moral code – it's not something we just up and decide one day.

Link to post
Share on other sites
sally4sara
I was pretty much raised with christian values and therefore my current moral decisions are based on Christian values.

 

I think to myself, if I didn't feel accountable to God, how would I make my moral judgements?

 

I feel like if I didn't have these moral values based on Christian principles, there would be no "wrong" I could do.

 

I would be completely free to do anything without guilt. (doesn't sound too bad actually)

 

anyway, Atheists, where do you get your moral values/judgements and how do you decipher whats "wrong"?

 

Everyday we suffer and commit acts of harm against each other. Many times we don't even realize what we do to other people because humans are largely self interested. By experiencing even unintentional harm by the actions of other people, we shape a sense of right and wrong.

I don't see anything wrong with using the instances of common sense in the christian bible to help children see how their actions can cause harm to others. This can also be done without the bible. Using their free interaction to help them identify with the feelings of others can also accomplish this.

 

Eventually, the merits of the bible wear thin. Then evil intentions use the bible to control small to large groups of people toward one or a few people's agendas. Their followers become incapable of being able to make "sound moral judgments" of their own choosing. The ability to make a judgment too often becomes a condeming act and where is the benevolence and virtue in that?

 

I found it best to try to help others when I see the opportunity and do as little harm in the pursuit of my own goals as I can. I accept the differences in others as long as I cannot see how their differences depend on the harming of others. When I accidentally cause harm to someone, I feel guilt despite not believing in christianity or the christian god. I use these feelings of guilt to shape my morals. But there is also a difference between "morals/values" and "standards". Sometimes people cannot afford to have the "standards" they prefer.

 

To do absolutely no harm is impossible. Evil is a part of life. Even posting your thread and my response contribute to evil. The components in your PC (and cell phone, game systems, TVs) are made from resources own by Congalese warlords who instruct their militias to use mass rape of women and children as a warfare tactic. Every time we get a new cell phone you run out, upgrade your PC, or go get the latest game system, you put money in their pocket to fund their efforts. Try to come up with a solution for that problem.....without stepping out of your comfy morals!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Trialbyfire

Not an atheist but close enough...agnostic.

 

Also raised on Christian values but chose to live without organized religion. I've chosen to cherry pick what's meaningful to me from the "thou shalt nots", added a few, then tried to live by this personal code. By rote living stopped cutting it for me, a long time ago.

 

As for living guilt-free, try to look at guilt as what it is. Pretty much a useless self-flagellating emotion. Remorse and restitution are far more meaningful, as well as simply not doing things that trigger guilt, reliant on your personal moral code.

 

Why not make yourself accountable to yourself? As long as you try to live by your personal code, you'll be your harshest critic and also, your own master.

 

Shucking religion shouldn't be the catalyst to run rampant, wreaking havoc for no good reason beyond selfish and immediate needs. "Now and Me" thinking, gets no one anywhere in life since sooner or later, you're going to meet bigger emotional predators and will lack the inner strength and boundaries, to withstand the onslaught.

Link to post
Share on other sites
playlislay

I get mine from my parents. They too are atheists.

Ive been brought up by my mulit-cultural dad (white British) to respect other cultures and to not be racist.

 

My mumand dad have a love for animals and taught me to respect them. Ive strengthened my respect for them by choosing to 1) avoid treading on snails at all costs-I well up if I do squish one and have to go back and make sure it is dead instead of dying. 2) I ensure that I eat every piece of meat on my plate before anything else-that animal died for me, I dont think my own boyfriend would do that! 3) If Im washing the car I will purposley pick off all of the flies and spiders so they dont get killed.

Obsessive? Maybe, but for me, it is a form of respect towards a living creatures welfare. Yes, I eat meat, but I repsect the meat. lol, sounds quite pathetic really :rolleyes:

 

My morals with sex have stemmed from watching people lose respect for themselves and the respect of others.

 

Sometimes humans make mistakes, it is the recognition that it WAS a mistake that makes us decent beings.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I was pretty much raised with christian values and therefore my current moral decisions are based on Christian values.

 

I think to myself, if I didn't feel accountable to God, how would I make my moral judgements?

 

Based upon upbringing and experiences combined with your innate gut feelings. I think that is how most of us do it anyway. When you are young you don't always have a strong sense of right and wrong. You have to be taught certain things, whether from a religious or secular standpoint. The black and white examples are generally obvious (murder being one example), but most areas are gray and they require teaching and guidance.

 

Nearly all of us have differences in that gray area in how we act and behave. For example, some people thinking stealing a pen or some paper from work is harmless, while others think any stealing is wrong.

 

I feel like if I didn't have these moral values based on Christian principles, there would be no "wrong" I could do.

 

I would be completely free to do anything without guilt. (doesn't sound too bad actually)

 

If that is how you feel, then it is probably better you are religious. That is a view that scares me about some religious people, that they need a God to behave properly. Whether or not I believe there is a God or not (which I am not sure about because I am agnostic) wouldn't drastically change how I behave. Like nearly every human being in existence, I have an innate desire to do what is best for myself (i.e., selfishness), but I have also learned that my actions affect others and I cannot always do things that are in my best self interest.

 

Atheists, where do you get your moral values/judgements and how do you decipher whats "wrong"?

 

I'm agnostic (which is close). I go back to upbringing and experiences combined with my innate gut feelings. I also use the Golden rule and think about how my actions impact others and society around me. It is not always clear and sometimes I can't always decipher what is wrong.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I get them from the same place everyone else does. The basic ones are innate, as we are social animals and we are hard-wired to survive in groups.

 

Others, I get from my culture.

 

Still others, I get from thinking about which is the best response/behavior for a particular situation.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not an atheist, but I don't think that religions can claim to be the authorities or authors on/of morality.

 

I don't agree with absolute moral relativism, or situational ethics as a moral code - but overall they don't truly negate what most religions would call moral.

 

The problem for so many Christians when it come to morality is that, it seems "we" demand that others live morally while claiming "forgiveness" for our acts of depravity.

 

I don't think that all atheists or agnostics are social nihilist or anarchists as they are painted by some Christian groups. In fact, I think that the anarchists are in the minority of all levels of thought on the subject of morals and morality. Most people can agree with the principals of Christian morals, just not with the way that they perceive Christians to practice them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Echo Moai's thoughts.

 

If you need the shadow of god over you shoulder to make you do the right thing, you've got bigger problems than any of us buddy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My moral (ethical) values are instinctive. It seems logical to me that moral values, such as altruism, would have evolved and been embedded in our genes because they are the best strategy for propagating an individual's genes - in the very long run. Thus, a sense of morality and ethics is to be expected based on theory of evolution, and this has been somewhat confirmed by computer simulations using game theory.

 

For people who are prepared to do some reading, instinct can be supplemented with reason based on the philosophical works of ancient Greece, ancient Rome, the Renaissance, the Reformation, the Scientific Revolution, the Enlightenment, and the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries.

 

The books of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity may also be used for study of morals/ethics but I would suggest that these books are not primarily about such matters but about subservience to divine command - they tell us to suspend our own judgment on what is good and bad and just do as we told otherwise we shall be punished. There is a basic immorality in the "do it or else" approach of these books - a more moral approach is to give people reasons for decision-making in situations where their decisions affect other people because decisions are not usually black and white but involve trade-offs. Rigid adherence to these religious books also stifles debate on morals/ethics. The moral values of these books are also locked into particular points in time and particular cultures and are often different to the moral values we have today - for example, they promote obedience to authority above personal autonomy, not to mention burning of heretics, genital mutilation, incarceration of women, terrorism, war-mongering, and much else.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Trialbyfire

Church dogma is very difficult to swallow since it's based on interpretation by fallible human beings like the Pope and co or any spiritual leadership. I have issues with ascribing infallible holiness to people, who are just people, since they're not exactly in communication with Him, if he so exists...

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author

Thank you all for giving me your insights into this topic

 

I'm not confident in finding answers to my questions, but I'm interested in what others have to say.

 

Also, I'm starting to feel that Atheists and Christians don't differ an absurd amount when it comes to morals.

 

I get them from the same place everyone else does. The basic ones are innate, as we are social animals and we are hard-wired to survive in groups.

 

I'm confused about the innate goodness of people. If we have a hard-wired sense of good and evil, then would that mean that other animals also could have a sense of good and evil?

 

Actually, I think years ago I had an evil hamster :D

 

When I accidentally cause harm to someone, I feel guilt despite not believing in christianity or the christian god. I use these feelings of guilt to shape my morals.

 

Why does it seem that we are the only animals that even feel guilt? Are animals evil because they appear self interested and remorseless for their actions?

 

I also use the Golden rule and think about how my actions impact others and society around me. It is not always clear and sometimes I can't always decipher what is wrong.

 

It never crossed my mind that most Atheists actually live by a Christian principle, which I'm sure isn't JUST a Christian principle alone.

 

Shucking religion shouldn't be the catalyst to run rampant, wreaking havoc for no good reason beyond selfish and immediate needs. "Now and Me" thinking, gets no one anywhere in life since sooner or later, you're going to meet bigger emotional predators and will lack the inner strength and boundaries, to withstand the onslaught.

 

I agree with this, however, when is it okay to decide that my WANTS are more valuable than the wants of others?

 

Thanks again all for your input, I'm just a 24 year old trying to understand myself.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Trialbyfire

on point, I get the feeling you're trying to justify or rationalize something you've done or want to do. If that's right, then I think you're barking down the wrong alley.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm confused about the innate goodness of people. If we have a hard-wired sense of good and evil, then would that mean that other animals also could have a sense of good and evil?

There are many examples of non-human animals behaving altruistically - for a starting point see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altruism_in_animals.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does it seem that we are the only animals that even feel guilt? Are animals evil because they appear self interested and remorseless for their actions?

IF (big if) it is true that we are the only animals that feel guilt, then it could be that is because we are the only animal with the vocal ability and vocabulary to discuss ethics and to have had the benefit of an education and thousands of years of written ethical philosophy to study. All they have are their instincts and their experiences in their generally very brief and narrow lives.

 

Pet animals can certainly look guilty but that might be because they fear displeasure from their owner. Rather like Christians who only do good out of fear of punishment by God. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
IF (big if) it is true that we are the only animals that feel guilt, then it could be that is because we are the only animal with the vocal ability and vocabulary to discuss ethics and to have had the benefit of an education and thousands of years of written ethical philosophy to study. All they have are their instincts and their experiences in their generally very brief and narrow lives.

 

Pet animals can certainly look guilty but that might be because they fear displeasure from their owner. Rather like Christians who only do good out of fear of punishment by God. :)

 

I agree that this could be an explanation of why we feel guilt.. however, would that mean before we could use words, there was no such thing as guilt? That seems weird to me.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
on point, I get the feeling you're trying to justify or rationalize something you've done or want to do. If that's right, then I think you're barking down the wrong alley.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "barking down the wrong alley"

 

Nonetheless, great insight.

 

I've came across a situation where some family and friends have asked me to join a business.

 

I don't agree with some of the practices in the business, however, everything is legal, I just believe that some of the methods to make sales are misleading and predatory.

 

Maybe I should find a business ethics forum eh?

 

I've heard "business ethics" is an oxy moron.

Link to post
Share on other sites
burning 4 revenge

One of the greatest questions of all time

 

I consider myself both an atheist and a Catholic and all I can say is that my values come from my experience of suffering and the little bit of empathy that suffering has allowed me to feel for the world

Link to post
Share on other sites

My values come from my brain. I use it to sift through the various influences in my life (parents, peers, teachers, books, films, politics, religion etc...). Some I hold onto and adopt as my own while others I just toss into the rubbish bin. Actually, I remember doing this from a very young age. I never de facto accepted anything.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not everyone needs someone to tell them what their moral values should be. SOME people can figure it out for themselves. I am not a Christian, but I still have read the bible, and think there are some good things that come from it. I am in the process of reading the Qu'ran and many good ideas have been presented there.

 

I would consider myself closer to agnostic, but I have made myself aware to multiple religions. I have spent a lot of time learning about Buddhism also.

 

I would hope that most people who call themselves "athiest/agnostic" have actually researched other religions before deciding theirs. Same with Christians, Jews, Muslims.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I've came across a situation where some family and friends have asked me to join a business.

 

I don't agree with some of the practices in the business, however, everything is legal, I just believe that some of the methods to make sales are misleading and predatory.

 

Maybe I should find a business ethics forum eh?

 

I've heard "business ethics" is an oxy moron.

 

I'd suggest talking to your family and friends about their sales practices. If they don't express any concern about the people they are misleading and preying upon, then it sounds like you'd be signing up to hurt people. Some people believe in "buyer beware" and "there's a sucker born every minute" and take advantage of people. If you don't want to be a part of that, don't. Surely there are other ways for you to earn a living.

 

There are business ethics classes. I took one in grad school, and no, it's not an oxymoron. It's just that money, greed, and self-interest tends to blind people, especially if they take the attitude they can absolve themselves of responsibility.

 

I'm an atheist and developed my ethics through my parents (who are agnostic), observation, and learning through experience. I don't need the fear of God to want to do the right thing - to me, it's a question of respecting other people and my own integrity.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...