Fun2BMe Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 People seem to be mostly concerned with the after life. Do you have any thoughts on where life came from to begin with? The earth was once a melting pot composed of inorganic matter. Suddenly microscopic organisms possessing life were somehow formed that later turned into animals and people. Do you have your opinion how life started and do you care as much as what happens after you die? The more I study science, the harder it gets to have faith. The bible states the earth is a few thousand years old whereas we have evidence dinnasours were here millions of years ago and there is no mention of them in the bible. So it gets hard to picture that God suddenly created people and animals out of the blue. Any thoughts on this? Link to post Share on other sites
magichands Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 The Bible is a metaphor. Some people believe in aliens, and in life from other planets. That's just crazy talk. Who knows what "primitive" life looked like. A lot of people think there was an RNA world before our "modern" DNA world. I don't think that science and religion are necessarily at odds with each other. Especially when you remember that science can't explain squat (in the grander scheme of things). That doesn't mean that science isn't cool, though. Science rocks. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fun2BMe Posted November 4, 2006 Author Share Posted November 4, 2006 DNA is not a requirement for life. In fact scientists predict that if life is found in outer space that they will likely not have DNA. DNA only passes on genes and mutations that allow an animal to change into a different animal that can be a unique trait found on earth. There could be a planet where only a single animal populates it. That would be the result of life without DNA. It would not change into a different animal. Science says all life on earth came from a single type of animal that through mutations of DNA turned into all the different life that exists, including human. All of this science contradicts with the bible so lately I have been questioning my religious beliefs and it is troubling me to do so. Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 I'm content in believing in the science. I don't understand how mixing eggs and flour and milk and sugar turns into a cake in the oven, nor do I really understand how a seed thrown into some dirt and water becomes a tree, but I see that it does. I don't understand how bacteria multiply, or how viruses are passed to a new host and mutate, but I don't doubt they do. I see mold grow in the fridge, and I see tiny fruit flies appearing out of nowhere in my plants if they've been overwatered and sit wet for a long time. How do these things "just happen"? I don't have the answers, but I know they do. It's not a stretch to believe that the environmental and atmospheric conditions on earth created microscopic organisms that evolved over time. The Bible is the last place I'd turn to figure out how life began! Link to post Share on other sites
magichands Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 DNA is not a requirement for life. For all life on this planet it is. Well, more accurately - some form of nucleic acid. There are RNA viruses but they ain't strictly called life. And life is the only kind of life as we know it. Anything else is pure speculation. Link to post Share on other sites
Flyin in Clouds Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 ... Do you have your opinion how life started and do you care as much as what happens after you die?... The more I study science, the harder it gets to have faith. The bible states the earth is a few thousand years old whereas we have evidence dinnasours were here millions of years ago and there is no mention of them in the bible. So it gets hard to picture that God suddenly created people and animals out of the blue. Any thoughts on this? Suppose evolution is correct (and all evidence seems to say it is), the interesting quesiton is why should the universe be constructed in such a way that it includes evolution which ultimately produced us? Why should the universe include life at all? For that matter why should the universe with or without life exist? There are questions science simply can not answer and for those we have to believe that God exists. We can not prove God exists scientifically because God is outside science (science deals with the natural world, God is of the supernatural.) Science is based on the Greek notion that the world is rational. (Muslims do not believe the world has to be rational because Allah can make the world be non-rational any time he wants, there is no restriction on Allah - Allah can do evil. Christians believe God can not do evil. That God must always be "good". Muslims believe that is too restricitve for Allah.) But we can not prove with science or logic that the world is indeed rational. We have to believe it is. So in a way belief trumps rationality. God created science if you will. And when we die that is the undiscovered country and who knows what dreams may come? Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 People seem to be mostly concerned with the after life. Do you have any thoughts on where life came from to begin with? I think some microbes arrived on a meteor or comet and just happened to land in a favourable place. Then they evolved. The bible states the earth is a few thousand years old whereas we have evidence dinnasours were here millions of years ago and there is no mention of them in the bible. Carbon-14 dating does not lie... Link to post Share on other sites
lovelorcet Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 I am with alpha here... I like to think that comets are like spore busses running through the galaxy. I am not convinced that the so called "RNA world" ever was really on the earth. I do believe that there are multiple nucleic acid base life-forms in the universe. You just need some water and certain things can live in it. Simon Conway-Morris has some interesting ideas about this but do not be misled he is not an evolutionary biologist, but a intelligent designer in disguise... Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Carbon-14 dating does not lie... I agree.. 4.5 billion years old is the age isochron dating places it to be.. 3.8 to 3.9 billion years by several radiometric dating methods.. carbon dating while it places the age to be in the billions as well isn't as acurate of a method becuase it can be contaminated The bible depending on how you calculate the years is under 10,000 years and closer to 6,000 years. Thers is a HUGE difference between 4.5 billion years and 6,000. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 The bible depending on how you calculate the years is under 10,000 years and closer to 6,000 years. Thers is a HUGE difference between 4.5 billion years and 6,000. I once asked my mom why there are fossils millions of yrs old if the old testament says the earth is only 10,000 yrs old. Her answer was that the devil put them there to deceive human kind. Link to post Share on other sites
tinktronik Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 I once asked my mom why there are fossils millions of yrs old if the old testament says the earth is only 10,000 yrs old. Her answer was that the devil put them there to deceive human kind. I've heard that one too Alpha. The church we went to when I was small said this to the congregation. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 See, what's fascinating about these discussions is that they are concerned with the behaviour of matter. But the origin of 'life' is far more fundamental. Whence the particles and forces that comprise matter? For that matter, WHY? Why have particles and forces and all their yet-to-be-discovered progenitors come to exist? Why did they begin to interact in ways that resulted in so many forms of matter? How did the rules governing all those forms come to exist? Science is still working on the question of how matter behaves. But that's not the same thing as questioning the origins of life. Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster_DAR Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 I once asked my mom why there are fossils millions of yrs old if the old testament says the earth is only 10,000 yrs old. Her answer was that the devil put them there to deceive human kind. That is too funny, I was brought up the same way. Everything in question is the devil at work. Science and evolution are the real universe. It's funny, I've been suggesting this to all my friends and family since I was 25 years old, but none of them ever listened. Now my friends are all on the fence between science and religion, so I'm wating for the day I can say "See!, I told ya!". Ha ha Link to post Share on other sites
tinktronik Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 That is too funny, I was brought up the same way. Everything in question is the devil at work. Science and evolution are the real universe. It's funny, I've been suggesting this to all my friends and family since I was 25 years old, but none of them ever listened. Now my friends are all on the fence between science and religion, so I'm wating for the day I can say "See!, I told ya!". Ha ha That is really funny. Whenever I am questioned about religion or science with my family .I always explain evolution and my confirmed non-belief in God to them.they just smile and tell me that i must be angry with the lord..... Link to post Share on other sites
magichands Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 I think some microbes arrived on a meteor or comet and just happened to land in a favourable place. Low taxation and good healthcare? Some crackpots think that we were on Mars before this, but that rock turned out to be a joke. It's great to be coming up with theories, but the "we came from space" one is just a little more than fanciful, I think. We're pretty delicate creatures. Link to post Share on other sites
Green Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Science doesnt really explain where life comes from. And some people dont trust a religion as there answer. Whether you choose science or religion or your own made up guess on what you think happened you have to use faith because you can never have absolute proof of everything and a cynic can doubt there own existance. Link to post Share on other sites
Pyro Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Wow, I must be in the minority here, but I believe creation and all that stuff came from God. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fun2BMe Posted November 4, 2006 Author Share Posted November 4, 2006 I think some microbes arrived on a meteor or comet and just happened to land in a favourable place. Then they evolved. The microbes on the comet would have to be able to exist on the conditions on earth. There are billions of comets yet little evidence that more than a small handful have ever hit earth. The chances of the comet having microbes in the first place, then that they survive the extreme heat of its travel and the tiniest of all possibility the earth would be compatible to its survival are smaller than me winning the lotto every single time I play. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fun2BMe Posted November 4, 2006 Author Share Posted November 4, 2006 The bible depending on how you calculate the years is under 10,000 years and closer to 6,000 years. Thers is a HUGE difference between 4.5 billion years and 6,000. If we have a bible which we cannot decode properly (it doesn't flat out say the earth is x number of years old and so on) or if by chance that bible is wrong, does it prove that therefore God does not exist? Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 The microbes on the comet would have to be able to exist on the conditions on earth. There are billions of comets yet little evidence that more than a small handful have ever hit earth. I meant any extra-terrestrial body. Thousands of meteors hit the earth every single day. most of the are are miniscule but over the past 5 billion years I'm sure we've been hit quite a bit. Link to post Share on other sites
tinktronik Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 If we have a bible which we cannot decode properly (it doesn't flat out say the earth is x number of years old and so on) or if by chance that bible is wrong, does it prove that therefore God does not exist? No the bible not being exact does not prove God does not exist , however even if the bible were 100% scientifically accurate it would not prove that God does exist either. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fun2BMe Posted November 4, 2006 Author Share Posted November 4, 2006 I once asked my mom why there are fossils millions of yrs old if the old testament says the earth is only 10,000 yrs old. Her answer was that the devil put them there to deceive human kind. I've heard that one too Alpha. The church we went to when I was small said this to the congregation. Just because a few humans give us misinformation - whether they be teachers, theologians or parents, should that therefore conclude to us that God does not exist? Link to post Share on other sites
Pyro Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Science doesnt really explain where life comes from. And some people dont trust a religion as there answer. Whether you choose science or religion or your own made up guess on what you think happened you have to use faith because you can never have absolute proof of everything and a cynic can doubt there own existance. Absolutely. We are all going to hear variuos opinions about this subject matter and in the end, we will all come up with our own conclusions on what the truth is. Faith is believing something without visible proof. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fun2BMe Posted November 4, 2006 Author Share Posted November 4, 2006 Science and evolution are the real universe. It's funny, I've been suggesting this to all my friends and family since I was 25 years old, but none of them ever listened. Now my friends are all on the fence between science and religion, so I'm wating for the day I can say "See!, I told ya!". Ha ha If Science and evolution are the real universe, then who put them there and created them? If I have a group of ingredients in the kitchen such as flour and eggs, they do not spontaneously turn into a cake. I have to mix them together and make it myself. The chances of it happening alone are zero. Likewise, with all the atoms and elements that exist in the universe, the chances of them spontaneously coming together to form complex things such as trees and humans is likewise zero unless a creator made it that way. Evolution is very complex and the chances of it happening spontaenously makes no sense even probability wise. These are just some thoughts I'm contemplating. I go from deep faith to losing it to questioning it but moreso now for some reason. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fun2BMe Posted November 4, 2006 Author Share Posted November 4, 2006 Science doesnt really explain where life comes from. And some people dont trust a religion as there answer. Whether you choose science or religion or your own made up guess on what you think happened you have to use faith because you can never have absolute proof of everything and a cynic can doubt there own existance. That's a nice way to word things. Maybe all the religions are wrong but God does exist. All the religions can be made up because God has not come to earth, something humans with their limitations imagine God to do. His evidence can be in everything we see around us or maybe we are still in the process of evolving to yet another animal with an even brain so that we can over time continue to comprehend more and more. Link to post Share on other sites
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