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Old 27th February 2017, 10:40 AM   #16
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One of the best therapists I've seen once told me that it's important to be "grounded in self." I'm guessing that's similar to being yourself or being true to yourself. I've struggled with self-love most of my life, but lately I'm feeling much better. It's probably because I'm focusing on what really matters to me instead of ignoring it or putting it off. I'm also trying to be more aware of the other things I really want, as I have this bad habit of telling myself "oh I can't have that" and shoving it to the back of my mind. It feels good to actually write down my goals/desires (when I remember) and make them happen. When you do that, you're treating yourself as if you matter. I never realized before that I treat myself like I don't matter.

Anyway, just thought I would share that since I can relate to your post.
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Old 27th February 2017, 12:11 PM   #17
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SpiralOut, I was actually reading some of your old threads this morning and definitely identified! I am also a writer and also a lot of the ways you reacted to people and felt at parties remind me of my own life experience.

Agreed on really focusing things that matter to yourself. A small one to me, for example is working without the Internet on. The quality of my work goes up and I tend to feel much better about myself. But there's no one who really watches over me or rewards me for turning the Internet off. But the feeling of peace, clarity and even happiness I get from doing the best writing/editing job I can is unmistakeable. I feel like I'm really honoring myself when I work without the Internet on. I think I have a tendency to not prioritize it, though, because of the lack of immediate external validation. And I think when I do that it does subconsciously send me the message that what I want/need (writing/editing that's to the best of my ability even if I get paid the same) doesn't matter.
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Old 27th February 2017, 5:22 PM   #18
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[QUOTE=lovely81;7240276]
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Originally Posted by Timshel View Post

Venting to them.

It's only recently that I've begun to feel as if I could even live life a little more emotionally independently. I think I've done a good job of sort of pretending to be so to most people, including myself, but I have a couple of key relationships where I'm not afraid to let out my fears and insecurities--and those relationships can be overwhelmed and dominated by this need for assurance. I realize it's these relationships (thinking of my mother and a good friend) that are a more accurate reflection of how I'm feeling on the inside most of the time--tense, on edge, unworthy.

And, I think, even in the relationships where I'm not venting, perhaps I'm doing so subconsciously. So these relationships don't end up feeling very fulfilling either a lot of the time, because they're all predicated on this need for assurance that persists no matter what "successes" accumulate.

@TruthTripper I love the Jung quote in your profile, really related.
Yes, you are doing so subconsciously.
When I was pregnant with my last child I had placenta accreta. For three months I was in hospital with a two year old at home. I thought I was going to lose it.
One day, the traveling guitar 'therapist' came and gathered myself and the other 'inmates' to sing our angst away. She did her thing and one of the other women started wailing and said she wanted to go home.
I looked at this woman, totally feeling her pain, and told her to suck it up.
There was a quiet after that but I will never forget the look on the strumming therapist's face.

That story is relevant only because that was the first time I spoke to another person like that. I was more shocked honestly than the strummer.
I was raised in a very strict home....academic achievement, social intellectualism and physical endurance were expectations.
All the while, I was the family scapegoat.

I am wondering if there are similarities for you lovely? I didn't find my voice and subsequent calm until after my husband died. There was a ridiculous amount of cleaning out of internal frustration/rage afterwords. Then, I learned to listen. I was a professionally successful listener but I was crap for myself and others in personal life.

As other posters have suggested, presence/being present was a tremendous help for me. Meditation, yoga, physical exertion and being still/present in every task and interpersonal exchange will help with bottled frustration and feelings of helplessness (meaning that there is a forfeit of any effort to control/placate others emotions.) There are many wise people who address presence, one of my favorites is Eckart Tolle.
https://www.goodreads.com/author/quo....Eckhart_Tolle

Therapy for venting is useful, they are paid to be emotional sponges.... That you are asking and thinking about this is the beginning of the end of these troubles. On the proper path lovely, hope this is of some assistance.
Best.
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Old 27th February 2017, 11:39 PM   #19
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But there's no one who really watches over me or rewards me for turning the Internet off. But the feeling of peace, clarity and even happiness I get from doing the best writing/editing job I can is unmistakeable.
lovely81,

Have you considered that those feelings of peace, clarity and happiness are rewards unto themselves; and then also that the product or output of your work is
the immediate external or manifest reward?

Quote:
And I think when I do that it does subconsciously send me the message that what I want/need (writing/editing that's to the best of my ability even if I get paid the same) doesn't matter.
When you don't create the best possible environment that brings you the most feelings of peace, clarity and happiness, then, actually, you are only not taking
proper responsibility for doing that. Everything else that you're telling yourself about why you're doing what you're doing - or not doing what you already know
is best for you to be doing - is just keeping you stuck feeling powerless and helpless and, in fact, blaming it on externals.
If that makes sense?
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Last edited by Ronni_W; 27th February 2017 at 11:42 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 28th February 2017, 1:07 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by SpiralOut View Post
One of the best therapists I've seen once told me that it's important to be "grounded in self." I'm guessing that's similar to being yourself or being true to yourself. I've struggled with self-love most of my life, but lately I'm feeling much better. It's probably because I'm focusing on what really matters to me instead of ignoring it or putting it off. I'm also trying to be more aware of the other things I really want, as I have this bad habit of telling myself "oh I can't have that" and shoving it to the back of my mind. It feels good to actually write down my goals/desires (when I remember) and make them happen. When you do that, you're treating yourself as if you matter. I never realized before that I treat myself like I don't matter.

Anyway, just thought I would share that since I can relate to your post.
Yes, I have recently discovered this about myself too. All my life I have felt unworthy of having things that other people have. I even felt unworthy of owning my own self, my own body, it was somehow the possession of others-a subsequence of child abuse. At the moment I'm suffering from a chronic illness and just the other day, I suddenly realised I felt unworthy of being in good health. I wonder if I work on changing this deeply ingrained belief, that my health will improve???
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Old 28th February 2017, 2:56 PM   #21
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I wonder if I work on changing this deeply ingrained belief, that my health will improve???
truthtripper,

As you might guess, the scientific-medical answer to your question would be a resounding 'NO!'; and, the same from those people who do not know about or
properly understand healing at the higher levels - such as you're talking about changing your psyche/psychology to fix the false/distorted ingrained belief.

For me, the answer is 'YES!' - but it does require quite a bit of work before we will see physical-manifest results. If you are open to 'Energy' or spiritual-based healing -
of which Reiki is a commonly-known technique - then, you may find one or more of the articles on these pages helpful: Healing, Physical - and - Healing, Psychological.
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Old 28th February 2017, 3:26 PM   #22
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I was raised in a very strict home....academic achievement, social intellectualism and physical endurance were expectations.
All the while, I was the family scapegoat.

I am wondering if there are similarities for you lovely?
Yes, I'm the only child of two very forceful and independent adults. "Academic achievement, social intellectualism and physical endurance" sound very familiar to me. I was definitely taught to keep it together and keep it in check. The most telling thing perhaps is that I probably missed like three days of school my entire school career. That said, my parents were always puzzled by why I was so hard on myself and don't seem to understand my emotions and thought I pressured myself. Not sure if this was true.

So, did you feel it was a step forward to tell the woman to "suck it up"?

I love Eckhart Tolle. I've signed up for yoga and am trying to be present with my emotions more. It's incredibly hard but rewarding to feel I can be there for myself. I have some seriously stressful events going on in my life right now. Therapy is helping. It also highlights for me painfully sometimes that vast difference between what I present to the world and how I am actually feeling.

I'm also in the process of stepping away from some friendships that haven't felt authentic for me. This is very difficult for me to do, and always has been, because I worry about being left alone. I just need some breathing room.

"meaning that there is a forfeit of any effort to control/placate others emotions"--yes. very important.
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Old 28th February 2017, 3:34 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Ronni_W View Post
lovely81,

Have you considered that those feelings of peace, clarity and happiness are rewards unto themselves; and then also that the product or output of your work is
the immediate external or manifest reward?
Really interesting post, and yes, it makes a lot of sense. It reminds me, too, how for a long time I would only got to social events depending on what guys would be there or wouldn't attempt yoga because it couldn't help me lose weight. Just no sense that anything could be worthwhile unless I obtained something very tangible out of it. Now I am discovering and am hopeful that I can tilt myself more toward these things that I can control to obtain the peace I wanted a man or a gaggle of friends to bring me.

So much of it is just about wanting the freedom to just be.
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Old 28th February 2017, 4:09 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by truthtripper View Post
Yes, I have recently discovered this about myself too. All my life I have felt unworthy of having things that other people have. I even felt unworthy of owning my own self, my own body, it was somehow the possession of others-a subsequence of child abuse. At the moment I'm suffering from a chronic illness and just the other day, I suddenly realised I felt unworthy of being in good health. I wonder if I work on changing this deeply ingrained belief, that my health will improve???
I think your outlook makes a big difference. If you believe that you deserve good health, you'll probably put more effort into following medical instructions/medications or looking for solutions etc.

I've always felt unworthy of having a successful career, even though it's something that I've always wanted. On an intellectual level, I believe I deserve it, but emotionally I see myself as being "less than" others and feel that I "can't" ever be on the same level as the people I look up to. I'll work really hard for something, then stop when I'm close to achieving the final goal. I still do this. On the rare occasion that I make the final leap, I am literally shaking with fear.

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Just no sense that anything could be worthwhile unless I obtained something very tangible out of it.
I do that too. I look at things being worthwhile based on what I get out of it at the end. That mindset is so difficult to change. It's like some part of me doesn't care if I get enjoyment out of something or not. All that matters is how practical is it, what do I get from it, what does it achieve, etc. My enjoyment comes from the accomplishment, not from the actual process of working on something. But it should be the other way around!! Gahhh!

Agreed that Eckhart Tolle is awesome. I could listen to him talk all day!
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Old 28th February 2017, 4:18 PM   #25
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or wouldn't attempt yoga because it couldn't help me lose weight.
Yes...it's a form of self-sabotage, isn't it? As if doing yoga is or is not the primary cause of losing weight. I go into similar self-deception about other things, so I know how easy it is to begin to believe the nonsense we tell ourselves about this or that or the other situation, condition or circumstance.
Our psyches are, indeed, very clever that way. . .

Quote:
Just no sense that anything could be worthwhile unless I obtained something very tangible out of it.
Yeah...we're so used to only defining 'success' in terms of outer-physical manifestations -- yet, when we go to define our values, we use manifest yet non-physical traits... peace, happiness, fulfillment, joy, etc. Are these things 'tangible' or not tangible, or merely tangible at some different level?
To me, neither traditional science nor traditional religion has thus far been very helpful in satisfactorily answering that question...so, we are left to plot our own course,
so to speak, and define our own 'tangibles' and successes in ways that represent, reflect and align with our own actual experiences -- why ever not?

Quote:
So much of it is just about wanting the freedom to just be.
For me, just knowing that I have the desire for freedom to do whatever is really just not enough to inspire me to actually get it done. I also have to have the discipline, determination and courage...and the willingness to sacrifice what does NOT get me to my own goals and to endure what DOES. For me, it takes overcoming a sense of doubt, hopelessness, self-judgement and 'what-if-I'm-not-on-the-right-track?' fear of failure.
Daily struggles...sometimes hourly. .
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Old 1st March 2017, 10:15 AM   #26
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truthtripper,

As you might guess, the scientific-medical answer to your question would be a resounding 'NO!'; and, the same from those people who do not know about or
properly understand healing at the higher levels - such as you're talking about changing your psyche/psychology to fix the false/distorted ingrained belief.

For me, the answer is 'YES!' - but it does require quite a bit of work before we will see physical-manifest results. If you are open to 'Energy' or spiritual-based healing -
of which Reiki is a commonly-known technique - then, you may find one or more of the articles on these pages helpful: Healing, Physical - and - Healing, Psychological.
When I first went to the doctor re the initial stages of my condition(joint hypermobility syndrome/Ehlers Danlos), he thought my symptoms were "psychosomatic". I saw many doctors before I got any worthwhile help. Most of them also suspected my condition was emotionally triggered. You see, when the medical profession are faced with "rare", little known about conditions, they often dismiss the patient as being mentally ill, as a kind of defence for their lack of knowledge. Patients are literally blamed for their condition and packed off to the psychiatrist. Several years down the track, I finally have a diagnosis, a genetic condition, Ehlers Danlos(EDS). It runs in my family. Now that I have the diagnosis, the doctors say no power of the mind can improve such a condition. What pathetic hypocrites they are! Anyway, I've met many people with EDS on an EDS forum. I have heard that healing is possible, despite doctors' negative prognoses. Also there are people who carry EDS genes but do not express the symptoms. So, one would naturally blame negative environmental influences rather than the genes themselves. There is also more scientific evidence that many genes are not in a fixed state and can switch on and off depending on environmental influences, which validates the use of 'Energy' /spiritual etc. healing. I have been doing Feldenkrais for the last two years. It's not considered a spiritual therapy, but it definitely has been for me. Any therapy that can help us improve our self awareness, I would think must have a spiritual aspect.

Thanks for the links! One of my friends for a long time has been urging me to also try reiki.
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Old 1st March 2017, 10:29 AM   #27
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I've always felt unworthy of having a successful career, even though it's something that I've always wanted. On an intellectual level, I believe I deserve it, but emotionally I see myself as being "less than" others and feel that I "can't" ever be on the same level as the people I look up to. I'll work really hard for something, then stop when I'm close to achieving the final goal. I still do this. On the rare occasion that I make the final leap, I am literally shaking with fear.
Yes, same here, so difficult to break out of when we have been brainwashed from childhood. It seems healing never ends. Just when I feel like I've found all the answers, there's always yet another newly discovered obstacle to conquer. Like peeling an endless onion. And there are indeed lots of tears.

Last edited by truthtripper; 1st March 2017 at 10:33 AM..
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Old 1st March 2017, 11:01 AM   #28
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..... It also highlights for me painfully sometimes that vast difference between what I present to the world and how I am actually feeling.

I'm also in the process of stepping away from some friendships that haven't felt authentic for me. This is very difficult for me to do, and always has been, because I worry about being left alone. I just need some breathing room.

"meaning that there is a forfeit of any effort to control/placate others emotions"--yes. very important.
Having to wear the mask has always been a struggle for me. If I just let go all the time and let everyone know what my real feelings were, I wouldn't have a job and I wouldn't have many, if any friends. It sucks, but unfortunately, that's life. Instead we have to wait for our next therapist appointment.

I'm also in the process of cutting off certain toxic people from my life. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company.
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Old 1st March 2017, 11:02 AM   #29
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Yes, I'm the only child of two very forceful and independent adults. "Academic achievement, social intellectualism and physical endurance" sound very familiar to me. I was definitely taught to keep it together and keep it in check. The most telling thing perhaps is that I probably missed like three days of school my entire school career. That said, my parents were always puzzled by why I was so hard on myself and don't seem to understand my emotions and thought I pressured myself. Not sure if this was true.

So, did you feel it was a step forward to tell the woman to "suck it up"?
The woman was becoming hysterical and 'kumbaya' only had a blank expression on her face. She couldn't leave, as the rest of us, not without putting herself and unborn child at risk. Hysteria served no purpose. It was the first time that I was in a situation that I usurped 'leadership' and that felt weird. There was once prior a graduate advisor who cried about her family life at check in but I listened quietly and didn't tell her to suck it up, haha.

Quote:
I love Eckhart Tolle. I've signed up for yoga and am trying to be present with my emotions more. It's incredibly hard but rewarding to feel I can be there for myself. I have some seriously stressful events going on in my life right now. Therapy is helping. It also highlights for me painfully sometimes that vast difference between what I present to the world and how I am actually feeling.
I hope you enjoy yoga! Presence is difficult, it requires fairly constant resetting at first. The end result is less emotional fluctuation, the moment is entirely more manageable than the past/future.
Therapy (and your proactive awareness) will assist you to merge inner being into your external relationships. It seems that you are fearful of revealing your true self to others for fear of rejection and struggling to not offload all that is withheld except for a chosen few.
When there is balance, every person will have their equal share and no one will have too much.
Also, boundaries are healthy, some things need space/introspection and no person I know will let loose everything; their sum of all fears. This is where meditation, prayer, yoga and physical exercise are helpful.

Quote:
I'm also in the process of stepping away from some friendships that haven't felt authentic for me. This is very difficult for me to do, and always has been, because I worry about being left alone. I just need some breathing room.

"meaning that there is a forfeit of any effort to control/placate others emotions"--yes. very important.
You seem to be making all the right efforts to get where you want to be and have a good understanding of where you currently are.

I my own experience, breathing room while I am hammering out internal struggles has been beneficial. Imo, quiet provides clarity. Whatever works for you, whichever way allows you the most peace/focus is the right way for you.
It's not unusual that a soul cleaning will help a person recognize incompatible/unproductive relationships. Let it happen.

Good luck to you lovely, Best.
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Old 1st March 2017, 8:27 PM   #30
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Thanks, Timshel. I really enjoyed your post. And your anecdote--wow. I feel I would have been paralyzed in such a situation, torn between disdain, panic, and pity.

I like the idea of merging your inner being into external relationships.

I wanted to add something else I noticed. I think by creating this facade (and this is an idea I got from Byron Katie and might have mentioned earlier), what has happened is that I am in friendships or romantic relationships where I secretly don't trust people's affection or like of me, because I'm not acting like my real self. Like I said, the odd thing is I think a lot of people see me as very strong and opinionated. IDK, it kind of reminds me of how a male friend of mine, a real player, once told me that he never tried for the girls he really wanted, he went for (he didn't put it this way) what one could call "the low-hanging fruit." I feel like that's what it all feels like when you're doing these things for approval or for society or whatever, things that aren't really speaking your truth. I don't think these people are actually "low-hanging fruit." It's really your motivations that make it feel that way.

@TruthTripper I'd just say my experience of losing friends has worked out better than I thought--the new experiences and relationships I've accumulated have been far better than the facade friendships. That said, it has been like pulling teeth. I turn down a lot of invitations (they seem to want you more when you are genuinely fleeing...so indicative of how unhealthy these friendships were to begin with.)

@SpiralOut, your "literally shaking with fear" struck me, because part of this journey for me has been about recognizing how much these waves of emotions that sweep over my body are something that are not going away. I think in the past, I have tried to solve them by getting externals into place, but it's almost like this is a chronic disease, a reaction to life that I have. Byron Katie has been VERY helpful with this. Also, I became a somewhat successful writer only after I was failing at the job I'd chosen. I thought that was very telling--I was pursuing something I was completely unsuited for and only writing as a hobby. Without any of the usual pressure, it was much easier for me to just have fun with writing, and I think that's why I got as far as I did.
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