Returning To a Baseline Existence

[Wave Rider]

I've read a whole lot of self-help books and I've been through a lot of self-improvement programs. Something that I've noticed is that most of these self-help programs do provide some kind of temporary improvement in my life that may last weeks, months, even years. But eventually, over time, I find myself sliding back into old habits, and returning to my "baseline" way of living.

 

This baseline way of living has stayed remarkably unchanged throughout my entire life. In spite of all the changes and improvements I've tried to make, I find that feel I am almost exactly the same person I was 15 years ago, and I feel that nothing fundamental about me has changed, in spite of all my efforts to improve.

 

A quantitiative example is my GPA. I've attended five colleges/universities, and regardless of the subject I study or the university I go to, my GPA at any one university has never varied more than +/- 0.24 grade points from my cumulative average.

 

It's the same thing with the relationships I form, both friendship and romantic relationships. My best friend my final year of undergrad was remarkably similar in temperament and personality to my best friend in the 4th grade. The women I've dated have been strikingly similar to each other, and the relationships have all ended in similar ways.

 

I often times feel a burst of exhilaration when I feel I have some kind of personal breakthrough. But over time, usually within a matter of weeks, I find myself returning to my baseline level of thoughts, feelings, and actions. And within a month or two, I find that the "breakthrough" has had no net effect on my life, and my life has returned to the level it was before the breakthrough.

 

I recently started swing dancing in hopes of meeting women and making real changes. But I am finding, to my horror, that I am only re-creating the same set of problems that I have had in my previous social groups.

 

I'm investigating the idea that this baseline level of existence that is difficult to change is caused by "lifetraps" which are repetition compulsions, as explained in the book Reinventing Your Life. I feel very stuck.

 

Can anyone relate to the idea of always reverting back to a baseline level of existence regardless of the changes you try to make, and does anyone have experience with making permanent changes?

Edited July 23, 2016 by Wave Rider

[losangelena]

Interesting topic. I'm curious to know what kind of things about yourself you're trying to change, and what kind of "self-help" programs you've tried.

 

For me, I think my baseline personality has stayed the same (outgoing introvert), but my temperament and how I interact with people have changed considerably over the years. Change for me always comes when a pain point becomes so uncomfortable that I can't help but adjust.

 

For instance, I have codependent tendencies. They used to be WAY WORSE than they are now. About a decade ago, I was in a messy, complicated relationship with a guy and it was extremely, unpleasantly codependent. It took over a year of being with him to even realize there was a name for our dynamic, another six months to actually detach from him, and almost another year to get over him. The whole experience was so overwhelmingly negative, I knew I never wanted to be in a situation where I'd let someone treat me that way again. So, the codependent tendencies are still there, but I've learned to override them, because I know how destructive they can be.

 

A former therapist of mine said that we perpetuate habits because they give us something; even the bad ones do something for us. I really believe that. Changes in thoughts and behaviors require a rewiring of the brain and a change in core beliefs. Lasting change does not come in a burst of insight, it comes by way of making incremental changes in attitude and action over the course of months or years. Self improvement for the sake of self improvement is probably not a very successful strategy. What's worked for me is therapy and an increase of self-awareness.

[NTV]

I know you've posted a lot here man but I forgot if you said so before.... do you volunteer?

[Wave Rider]

Interesting topic. I'm curious to know what kind of things about yourself you're trying to change, and what kind of "self-help" programs you've tried.

 

I've read all or part of probably 50 self-help books, and I've spent countless hours reading internet articles about psychology and other stuff by various self-help gurus. I've been to 17 therapists, and I've been prescribed various medications, but none one them seemed to work. I'm not on any medications now, and I think that some of those medications were probably harmful. It seems like nothing in my life ever changes in any significant way.

 

I used to be into PUA, but that didn't work, other than helping me to learn to attract a bunch of flaky women to make out with, so I don't read that stuff anymore.

 

I tried AA-style "recovery" even though I've never drank or used drugs, but that didn't work. I've tried a hypnotherapist for self-sabotage, and I've tried DNMS therapy to try to develop a secure attachment style, and I've tried EMDR to try to alleviate trauma from the past, but I got only a minimal improvement from all of those. I've tried CBT for anxiety, depression, and mood problems.

 

I've read a lot about manhood and the meaning of being a man, particularly within the mythopoetic men's movement, but that didn't do much to change me.

 

As you can see, I frustrated because I've put a tremendous amount of work into improving myself, but it feel like Nothing. Ever. Changes.

 

The only thing that has changed my life significantly in the last 10 years is leaving Mormonism. That has definitely improved my life. And also quitting music and going back into science by getting a physics degree.

 

At some point I realized that I have some kind of internal resistance to positive change. I'm willing to do the work to change, but some part of me fights hard to prevent positive changes in my life.

 

Lasting change does not come in a burst of insight, it comes by way of making incremental changes in attitude and action over the course of months or years. Self improvement for the sake of self improvement is probably not a very successful strategy. What's worked for me is therapy and an increase of self-awareness.

 

I agree that incremental changes in thoughts, feelings, and actions is the way to go, but I'm not sure what exactly needs to change, and I still often have the problem where I can make temporary changes, but then I find myself sliding back to that baseline existence, and there ends up being no net change in my life. Self-awareness has only limited value for me, because I am often fully aware of my problems, and yet feel powerless to change them, as I continue to slide back to that baseline existence after making positive changes.

 

I know you've posted a lot here man but I forgot if you said so before.... do you volunteer?

 

No, I don't. I've done that before and it doesn't do anything.

 

At this point I'm going to try the program in Reinventing Your Life, because it's specifically geared towards people who have tried to change but have found something within themselves that fights hard to prevent change.

 

I'm a little surprised that so few people here seem to have found themselves in this situation.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Wave Rider

[NTV]

Have you looked into the research on how long it takes to firm a habit?

[Wave Rider]

Have you looked into the research on how long it takes to firm a habit?

 

I've heard 30 days, and there are probably various estimates. There's a difference between a habit and a repetition compulsion of traumatic origin. I believe that my chronic singleness is a result of repetition compulsion. That's one of the reasons why I've spent so much time trying to right the wrongs committed against me in the past. That's what repetition compulsion is all about. So far it's helped a little to accept that those wrongs will never be made right, and so I have to live for the present and the future, rather than to vindicate the past. Here's an interesting article about it.

[JuanDelToro]

What is exactly the problem that you're trying to fix? Can you describe it in just one sentence?

[NTV]

Yeah, I read the article, and found it kinda depressing. But that aside, when I spoke about habits, I was more thinking along the lines of your statement of your baseline way of living hasn't changed.

 

 

I don't see the connection between your baseline way of living and finding a romantic partner. Is it possible that you have constructed an artificial connection?

 

 

For example, if you daily eat...idk... popcorn every day, and then end up only dating women that like popcorn, it may not have anything to do with each other. Correlation vs causation and all that.

 

 

TBH, and this is just my opinion based on what little I've read from you over my time here, really, I think that you're just afraid of getting things wrong. So you overpsychoanalyze the crap outta yourself.

 

 

Here's the thing man.... life is often messy, chaotic, disorganized. And if you don't get things wrong you don't get a chance to learn from your mistakes.

 

 

An example is when I was working fast food in early college, I went out to a bar to meet chicks with a guy I worked with cause... well I didn't really have much else to do. Ended up that dude was a douche, but his friend that showed up at the bar ended up being one of my closest friends in life. If I had been worried about being seen with him or that night sucking or any of a million other things that could have gone wrong I never would have met my later roommate and best man at my wedding.

 

 

You can't be afraid to screw up in relationships, and you can't always think that something is wrong with you if there is a screw up tossed into a relationship. You mentioned your traumatic childhood, and yeah a lot of trauma never ever ever leaves you. But at some point it changes from baggage you carry in your head to a trial you have passed through and overcome.

 

 

Are you you because of what happened or despite it? That's the real question, right?

 

 

Baseline levels of living, standards of living, living conditions, cost of living, level of life happiness, quality of life... I could go on and one with different measures like those and the pros and cons of each measure. Nothing will get you a perfect answer because you aren't perfect. No one is. That's just life bro.

[Wave Rider]

What is exactly the problem that you're trying to fix? Can you describe it in just one sentence?

 

I have persistent self-sabotage habits; I consistently act in self-defeating ways, and even when I am aware of these self-defeating habits, I have felt powerless to make real long-term changes.

 

There's the one-sentence explanation.

 

NTV, I do appreciate the thoughts, but I'm talking about something far beyond a temporary slump or a refusal to accept that there are rough times in life. I'm talking about a persistent pattern of self-defeating behavior that persists in spite of my awareness of it and in spite of my efforts to change it. I'm talking about spending months or years in therapy with almost zero improvement in symptoms. There is something to be said about perfectionism and the refusal to accept failure or the fear of making a mistake, and maybe I have a little of that, but I don't think that's what's going on here.

 

For relationships, there is a baseline for me, and that baseline is that I'm single and alone. Or I go through brief relationships with women who are cold, distant, and emotionally unavailable. It always makes me feel alone again. That's the repetition compulsion.

[NTV]

. I'm talking about a persistent pattern of self-defeating behavior that persists in spite of my awareness of it and in spite of my efforts to change it. I'm talking about spending months or years in therapy with almost zero improvement in symptoms. There is something to be said about perfectionism and the refusal to accept failure or the fear of making a mistake, and maybe I have a little of that, but I don't think that's what's going on here.

 

 

Right, I get what your talking about here. So... investigative questioning:

 

 

Why are you correlating this piece of it to your pursuit of romantic partner?

 

 

(expanded version of same question) I mean, I could understand if you knew you were untreated bipolar, and as an adult sought professional treatment of this condition prior to seeking out romantic relationships. In your description of your ailment, you not only say that current and past professional treatment has made little or no impact, but then you connect the relationship difficulties you experience results directly attributable to your ailment. I question the validity of that assumption.

 

 

-------------------------

 

 

Habits? The reason I asked about researching habits, and your personal adherence or effectiveness at establishing habits wasn't to suggest that a change in a habit (like eating healthy breakfast or working out) would necessarily impact your ailment, but rather for two reasons:

 

 

1) that mental path you use to access inner discipline needed to form a habit, once strengthened gives many additional benefits across a wide range of lifestyle interactions. Obsessive/compulsive disorder research clearly indicates the benefits of establishing positive habits in fighting outbreaks of obsession and compulsion (provided the habit didn't originate from either).

 

 

2) even if you dismiss the first reason as inapplicable, there is no arguing that it can serve as a stepping stone to both counteract the impact of negative psychological pathologies. Meaning even if it doesn't help you directly, it will likely lead you to what can.

 

 

----------------------------

 

 

With regards to my last post, it wasn't my intention to say that what you're working against is a temporary slump in life. Rather you asked questions regarding changing the baseline existence features you dislike in your currently lifestyle.

 

 

For me personally in my life, there are only two types of conditions that caused me to change that:

 

 

1) Internal outlook/perspective on life

 

 

2) External traumatic event/shock

 

 

The second one of course is like playing Russian roulette and getting the mystery prize if you survive.

 

 

The first one.... IDK is a lot harder to describe. The two times I've used it or had to use it both took it my internalizing a specific mental mantra, and then deliberately forming habits built up to either strengthen and support that mantra or to bar against failure to comply with that mantra.

 

 

So that's why I got up on a soapbox describing the mess that life was. To stir your ideals on life up so that you might come up with a fresh perspective... resulting in a mantra... supported by habits... habits becoming the normal... new base level...

 

 

kinda make sense?

 

 

 

 

man, I promise I didn't mean to type out so much here, lol. I hope it helps.

[Lovelorn00]

I know this is sort of an old-ish thread, but OP’s story really resonated with me, and I can definitely relate.

 

I never thought to call it a “baseline” existence, but that is definitely what it feels like. After years and years of self-help books, therapy, a medication or two, I feel like I am the exact same person I was before I started all of it. There are times when it feels like I might be on the verge of a breakthrough, but I always seem to end up back where I started.

 

This is particularly frustrating in my dating life (which is why I’ve been posting for years in the “dating” sub-forum). These patterns have become so frequent that I can almost set a timer to it.

 

For me, it’s a familiar sinking feeling. It’s the feeling I get when I come to the (incorrect) conclusion that all of my efforts were for naught. The words you’ve used – “sliding” back into the baseline – remind me of this feeling. My baseline consists of living under a blanket of loneliness, self-hatred, depression, anxiety. It sounds horrible, but I often refer to this “baseline” as “home”, because it feels familiar. Most of my life has been lived in this familiar state of sadness. One of the many therapists I’ve had even diagnosed me with dysthymia, which is a chronic, low-grade depression. No, it’s not all-out despair. Not all the time anyway. It’s just a constant, nagging feeling that something is painfully off. Like someone repeatedly poking a bad bruise. I wonder if you’re dealing with the same thing.

 

Unfortunately, I’m not able to offer any words of advice at this point, as I am also “sliding” back into my baseline as I type this (triggered by a breakup). I would, however, like to share a few thoughts that tend to help me when I’m feeling the way you do:

 

 

• · As I age, I notice that the time spent at my “baseline” has decreased. I’m not sure if I should credit my therapists for that or just the fact that I’m getting older, but there were times in the past when I would wallow in my baseline for long periods of time. My ability to bounce back after spending has grown over the years. It’s been an extremely slow growth, but a noticeable one.
  
• · Consider the possibility that there are indeed changes occurring within you, but they’re very subtle. For me, I think piling on the self-help books and therapy sessions caused me to expect something to happen sooner - that I’d wake up after a couple of years of intense self-work and be okay. I now realize that the change I require will take much more time, so patience is key.
  
• · Also consider the possibility that being at a baseline is okay sometimes. It’s the ebb and flow of life. For me, I must be mindful of how much time I’m spending at my baseline. Too much time, and it begins to become extremely difficult to crawl out of the hole. The cool thing about you is that you seem to have something within you that wants to fight against this. Embrace that little part of you that continues to fight and refuses to wave the white flag. That little part of you will become your best friend even on the loneliest of days.
  

 

Anyway, I might be completely off base with how I interpreted your post, but I can definitely relate to what you’ve described.

[Wave Rider]

I know this is sort of an old-ish thread, but OP’s story really resonated with me, and I can definitely relate.

 

I never thought to call it a “baseline” existence, but that is definitely what it feels like. After years and years of self-help books, therapy, a medication or two, I feel like I am the exact same person I was before I started all of it. There are times when it feels like I might be on the verge of a breakthrough, but I always seem to end up back where I started.

 

This is particularly frustrating in my dating life (which is why I’ve been posting for years in the “dating” sub-forum). These patterns have become so frequent that I can almost set a timer to it.

 

For me, it’s a familiar sinking feeling. It’s the feeling I get when I come to the (incorrect) conclusion that all of my efforts were for naught. The words you’ve used – “sliding” back into the baseline – remind me of this feeling. My baseline consists of living under a blanket of loneliness, self-hatred, depression, anxiety. It sounds horrible, but I often refer to this “baseline” as “home”, because it feels familiar. Most of my life has been lived in this familiar state of sadness. One of the many therapists I’ve had even diagnosed me with dysthymia, which is a chronic, low-grade depression. No, it’s not all-out despair. Not all the time anyway. It’s just a constant, nagging feeling that something is painfully off. Like someone repeatedly poking a bad bruise. I wonder if you’re dealing with the same thing.

 

Unfortunately, I’m not able to offer any words of advice at this point, as I am also “sliding” back into my baseline as I type this (triggered by a breakup). I would, however, like to share a few thoughts that tend to help me when I’m feeling the way you do:

 

 

• · As I age, I notice that the time spent at my “baseline” has decreased. I’m not sure if I should credit my therapists for that or just the fact that I’m getting older, but there were times in the past when I would wallow in my baseline for long periods of time. My ability to bounce back after spending has grown over the years. It’s been an extremely slow growth, but a noticeable one.
  
• · Consider the possibility that there are indeed changes occurring within you, but they’re very subtle. For me, I think piling on the self-help books and therapy sessions caused me to expect something to happen sooner - that I’d wake up after a couple of years of intense self-work and be okay. I now realize that the change I require will take much more time, so patience is key.
  
• · Also consider the possibility that being at a baseline is okay sometimes. It’s the ebb and flow of life. For me, I must be mindful of how much time I’m spending at my baseline. Too much time, and it begins to become extremely difficult to crawl out of the hole. The cool thing about you is that you seem to have something within you that wants to fight against this. Embrace that little part of you that continues to fight and refuses to wave the white flag. That little part of you will become your best friend even on the loneliest of days.
  

 

Anyway, I might be completely off base with how I interpreted your post, but I can definitely relate to what you’ve described.

 

Thanks Lovelorn00. And I feel like you understand me, and it seems that you understand the problem. For me, the baseline I return to is mostly about a life situation that I keep returning to rather than an internal psychological state, though the internal state is part of it. There may indeed be small changes happening slowly in me, but at the rate change is happening, my life will be over by the time I get life "figured out" if such a thing exists.

 

Lately I've been looking into ACT, which is kind of an "I give up" therapy where you give up on solving your problems, and instead you try to learn to live with them. I've been trough so many therapists and self-help programs that I'm ready to give that a try.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Wave Rider