Why is becoming a man so hard?

[Swan89]

I'm 26 and my previous short term relationships have shown me that I still have a long way to go in terms of maturity.

I never had a strong male role model growing up and I witnessed a traumatic divorce at age 11. My mother always over-pampered me and I try to keep her at arms length so I can learn to be independent.

I've noticed with each failed relationship, I've learned something substantial. I've had my heart broken 3 times because it was my fault for hurting/turning off the girl.

I have flaws that STILL effect my life that I notice have effected my last relationship.

1) My integrity wavers in situations/am not honest

2) My emotions or insecurities heavily affect my decisions

3) I don't always weigh up think about consequences of actions

4) I hold onto unhealthy/unsatisfying relationships

 

I've been heavily immersing myself in self improvement, but becoming a GROUNDED, self assured alpha male is proving to be a phenomenally hard goal to achieve.

I'm not getting any younger and changing my ways is so hard. You have to consciously take on board the lessons you've learned and actively be aware of the issues in order to apply different behaviour. But even then, you can act a different way and still FEEL the same as before. Can how you FEEl ever truly change?

[Mumbles]

I was thinking a thought on this post right up until you said this:

 

self assured alpha male is proving to be a phenomenally hard goal to achieve.

 

What can this even mean?

 

I've got to say, this simple collection of words might be the source of your issues.

 

What makes you think you are an alpha male? Or want to be one?

 

I have to admit, throughout my life I've never yet met an 'alpha' male who would describe himself using that term who wasn't a complete ass-hat.

 

I've met a number of natural leaders over time, though there are less of these than you might immediately surmise, they don't think in these terms.

 

The ones beating their chests, being loud and trying to bully others (by words or deeds) are almost by definition -not- alphas, but desperately want to be.

 

Lets explore this and maybe some other things will surface.

[Swan89]

I was thinking a thought on this post right up until you said this:

 

 

 

What can this even mean?

 

I've got to say, this simple collection of words might be the source of your issues.

 

What makes you think you are an alpha male? Or want to be one?

 

I have to admit, throughout my life I've never yet met an 'alpha' male who would describe himself using that term who wasn't a complete ass-hat.

 

I've met a number of natural leaders over time, though there are less of these than you might immediately surmise, they don't think in these terms.

 

The ones beating their chests, being loud and trying to bully others (by words or deeds) are almost by definition -not- alphas, but desperately want to be.

 

Lets explore this and maybe some other things will surface.

 

Don't let this term put you off the point I'm trying to make. I simply used this term to summarise what is thought to be a strong man that can handle his mind and emotions.

[Tayla]

Its challenging indeed! So what is the motivation in being labeled an alpha male?

What do you define a man to be? Not what a text book says, because that is primarily genetic and biological.

 

A true gent need be of good manners with healthy attitudes in life. If you have that, welcome to being an adult. All else is open to interpretations.

[Swan89]

Its challenging indeed! So what is the motivation in being labeled an alpha male?

What do you define a man to be? Not what a text book says, because that is primarily genetic and biological.

 

A true gent need be of good manners with healthy attitudes in life. If you have that, welcome to being an adult. All else is open to interpretations.

 

I think it applies to being able to act accordingly in the most appropriate manner. In other words, using logic over emotion. Also, being upfront about things rather than hiding your thoughts because of fear of being judged or condemned. Sometimes keeping things to yourself and bottling it up is bad. We get taught to 'play the game' but in my experience, it breeds distrust and makes things worse than if you had voiced your unmet needs.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

It's like a woman just needs a vaginw in order to be feminine or to just be a Woman, it doesn't matter what kind of parental role model a woman has growing up, but it matters for a guy, its very hard to put this into words, but they always talk about guys need to be taught and learn how to be a Man, but never vice-versa

[Swan89]

It's like a woman just needs a vaginw in order to be feminine or to just be a Woman, it doesn't matter what kind of parental role model a woman has growing up, but it matters for a guy, its very hard to put this into words, but they always talk about guys need to be taught and learn how to be a Man, but never vice-versa

 

I totally and bitterly agree with that. They say 'this is a man's world' but its really not in this day and age. Its not fair.

[basil67]

Aside from the rare, super-analytical soul, people generally don't use logic over emotion. Most people use a bit of both. And to be honest, those fore mentioned super-analytical people often struggle to find dates because they lack a certain element of passion and emotion.

 

There's no point in worrying about people condemning us and judging us. No matter what we do, there are always a few people who have different outlooks on life and who will look down on our choices. Ever heard the expression "you can't please everyone?" It exists for a reason.

 

What we can do is surround ourselves with the people who don't judge. People who share our outlook. Be brave enough to dump those who aren't nice people.

 

I'm not sure what type of game you are referring to, but yes, keeping things to ourselves can be bad. But it can also be wise. It's about judging which issues are important enough to be addressed. Some things in life really must be addressed, some aren't worth worrying about and some are red flags which tell us to run away from that person and not look back!

 

Forget this Alpha Male thing. What you need to work on is nothing more than courage to trust yourself. And courage to walk away from a bad situation knowing that you will survive.

 

Lastly, only the most obtuse DON'T learn something from each failed relationship. Sometimes it's how treat another person and sometimes it's about how to treat (protect) ourselves.

[Tayla]

never? Pretty sure the positive role models I had ,influenced and allowed thru trial and error ,just what my feminine gender is accountable to maintain.

 

Maybe another question would be , what mannerisms do you define as manly? What behaviors would you be less inclined to participate in?

 

I've met men who by day are quite the intellectual and by evening are dressed in drag. Yet all the while are men enjoying life... Because really ... no one thing makes a gender definitive.

[OpenBook]

I'm not getting any younger and changing my ways is so hard. You have to consciously take on board the lessons you've learned and actively be aware of the issues in order to apply different behaviour. But even then, you can act a different way and still FEEL the same as before. Can how you FEEl ever truly change?

 

Yes, it gets better. You don't worry about all that anymore. You're comfortable in your own skin, already keenly aware of your limitations AND your strengths, and you're at peace with it all - and (extra bonus) no longer concerned about other people's opinions of you. It's the result of aging, and life experience achieves it for you. Try not to agonize over this too much (that's just a waste of energy, is all). It will all work out. It's ok - and completely normal - to be unsure of your convictions at 26. You don't have to have everything figured out, in order to go out and conquer the world!

 

(This is what I dearly wish someone had told me when I was young. Assuming, of course, that I would have listened to them. Which is doubtful. )

[truthtripper]

I think it applies to being able to act accordingly in the most appropriate manner. In other words, using logic over emotion. Also, being upfront about things rather than hiding your thoughts because of fear of being judged or condemned. Sometimes keeping things to yourself and bottling it up is bad. We get taught to 'play the game' but in my experience, it breeds distrust and makes things worse than if you had voiced your unmet needs.

Everyone gets taught to 'play the game' in society, not just men. Look up 'consensus trance'(Charles Tart/George Gurdjieff), a term used to describe the the general constant altered state of people, which renders them unable to see reality for what it really is. We are all victims.

[truthtripper]

I have flaws that STILL effect my life that I notice have effected my last relationship.

1) My integrity wavers in situations/am not honest

2) My emotions or insecurities heavily affect my decisions

3) I don't always weigh up think about consequences of actions

4) I hold onto unhealthy/unsatisfying relationships

You have much more self-awareness than the average 26yo. This is healthy and keep it up, but as other posters have mentioned, don't use it against yourself and bash yourself up. We live and learn. It's an endless process.

[mightycpa]

Can how you feel about doing the difficult and right thing change? Sure, as soon as you feel the strength it gives you.

 

1) My integrity wavers in situations/am not honest

2) My emotions or insecurities heavily affect my decisions

3) I don't always weigh up think about consequences of actions (this is almost always about deferred gratification)

4) I hold onto unhealthy/unsatisfying relationships

So

 

1) be honest with the girls

2) don't let fear, sympathy or pity sway you from your course

3) accept that you'll be happier without her, and unhappy if you stay

4) cut her loose when it suits you

 

Rinse, lather, repeat until you find a good one. That's what they're doing to you anyway. Might as well get a jump on things.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

I totally and bitterly agree with that. They say 'this is a man's world' but its really not in this day and age. Its not fair.

 

Spelled "Vagina" wrong, lol, but ya, when I stumbled upon this quote on a forum a few months ago, it changed my view on the dating/mating game, and I agree with it, love the quote, it is "Women are Born, Men are Made"

[Buddhist]

Well, a good start would be to stop blaming your state on the lack of a father and the fact you were raised by a mother only. Your entire post reeks of blame and a subconscious hatred of women. Maybe that's why you lack integrity in your relationships and sabotage them.

 

Boo hoo you didn't grow up with a dad. Not everyone who grows up fatherless becomes an arse. But no in your head it's all because you were raised by your mother. Good grief.

[GorillaTheater]

I grew up with a very high-strung, abusive mom and a dad who was gone every chance he got and hardly said a word when he was home. Predictably, I was a fairly f*cked up kid. My turning point came when I escaped into the Navy and it was immediately apparent that no one gave a sh*t about my upbringing and were going to hold me accountable for my actions or inactions regardless. By doing so, they did me a HUGE favor.

 

 

So while it's helpful to see where certain behaviors spring from, making it perhaps easier to change those behaviors, a big part of being a man in my book is entirely owning your behaviors, regardless of where those behaviors may spring from, and taking the initiative to make positive changes.

[serial muse]

I totally and bitterly agree with that. They say 'this is a man's world' but its really not in this day and age. Its not fair.

 

Hahaha. Or, another way to look at it might be that all the pervasive talk about "what makes a man" just reveals the lesser importance society in general places upon women's internal struggles (as in, those aren't general societal issues, they're sidelined as "women's issues"). Just a way to turn the mirror around.

 

Anyhoo. GorillaTheater said it beautifully: You're 26 now, so perhaps what will help you most is not focusing on the things in your past that have challenged you, but how you can move forward. And moving forward is less about fulfilling a role to please/impress society (that of an "alpha male", for example) and more about focusing on who you want to be.

 

And, side note, if you're focusing on "it's not fair", then you're doing the opposite of this. Those kinds of thoughts do nothing for you but drag you down. If you want to be truly independent, I strongly advise you to eschew the echo chamber that encourages them.

Edited February 19, 2016 by serial muse

[thefooloftheyear]

Good luck getting a legitimate answer on a site like this....You might as well ask for a good burger recipe on a vegan forum....

 

 

 

 

TFY

[Snaggletooth]

Well, a good start would be to stop blaming your state on the lack of a father and the fact you were raised by a mother only. Your entire post reeks of blame and a subconscious hatred of women. Maybe that's why you lack integrity in your relationships and sabotage them.

 

Boo hoo you didn't grow up with a dad. Not everyone who grows up fatherless becomes an arse. But no in your head it's all because you were raised by your mother. Good grief.

 

I grew up dirt poor but was lucky enough to have a good, strong, honest, honourable, hardworking man as a father. His guidance, and more so his example, gave me a knowledge, self assurance, stability, balance and head start to life that I wouldn't swap for anything. Even now, in my mid forties, I can look back on my rock solid roots and 18 years of his teachings for guidance. Thanks to him, life has never really seemed like hard work, no matter how hard it has actually been.

 

Much of what GT learnt in the navy, I was lucky enough to be taught before I was a teenager. Life ain't fair. You are no more special, or less special, than the man stood next to you. Work hard. Work harder. Head down, mouth shut, nose clean. Don't whinge, because I ain't listening boy. You broke it, you fix it. You want it, you earn it. Own your sh*t. Take no sh*t. A bully took your mate's lunch money? and you didn't fight? don't come running to me, don't go sneaking to the teacher, go back to school, put one on the end of his nose and either take the money back or take a hiding. Stand tall. Look after those around you. Contribute. Don't lie. Don't cheat. No excuses. Bust arm? you can still chop firewood, man up and use the other one. See that bit of blue sky? ignore the rain, ignore the snow, ignore the cold, ignore the pain, focus on that blue sky. It's all a state of mind. This game. Life. It's all a state of mind. Etc, etc, etc.

 

I can't imagine what it must be like for a lad to enter the adult world without that constant role model. To have to do the learning I did as a kid, as a man. To have to look elsewhere for that role model, example, wisdom, knowledge. To have to write to strangers on the net for advice that a good father would have given when a kid.

 

Nothing wrong with OP acknowledging some his troubles stem from not having those 18 years of male guidance. Recognising that missing balance does not make him a woman hater, nor an arse. Just a confused, uncertain young man who has missed out on the greatest gift and start to life a boy can have, a good father. He knows the root of his problems, smart lad, now it's up to him to cope with his disadvantage and learn for himself. Sadly, the hard way, as an adult.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Snaggletooth

[spmh1017]

I'm 26 and my previous short term relationships have shown me that I still have a long way to go in terms of maturity.

I never had a strong male role model growing up and I witnessed a traumatic divorce at age 11. My mother always over-pampered me and I try to keep her at arms length so I can learn to be independent.

I've noticed with each failed relationship, I've learned something substantial. I've had my heart broken 3 times because it was my fault for hurting/turning off the girl.

I have flaws that STILL effect my life that I notice have effected my last relationship.

1) My integrity wavers in situations/am not honest

2) My emotions or insecurities heavily affect my decisions

3) I don't always weigh up think about consequences of actions

4) I hold onto unhealthy/unsatisfying relationships

 

I've been heavily immersing myself in self improvement, but becoming a GROUNDED, self assured alpha male is proving to be a phenomenally hard goal to achieve.

I'm not getting any younger and changing my ways is so hard. You have to consciously take on board the lessons you've learned and actively be aware of the issues in order to apply different behaviour. But even then, you can act a different way and still FEEL the same as before. Can how you FEEl ever truly change?

 

I'm 37 and identify with EVERYTHING you said.

 

I wish I had noticed it at your age but by then I was already a father in a bad relationship (I would on to for another 10 years)

 

Now I'm 37 and I'm single and having terrible relationships and wavering between self-improving one moment then self-destruction the next.

 

Usually Ill grasp on to improving after a failure then go back to self-destruction once I get a sense of comfort again.

[dichotomy]

Better to be gentleman then an alpha man.

 

There are many areas in life - that in order to succeed, require different skill sets. Work, health, relationships, etc.

 

What exactly are you doing to improve yourself ?

[thefooloftheyear]

I think one reason why a lot of younger guys struggle with this is that there really isn't that much of a "definition" of a man anymore....I think that society has moved towards the center, and there is a lot of ambiguity......

 

Much less than when I grew up, that's for sure...Is it a good thing? I dunno...*shrug*

 

TFY

[carhill]

Yeah, the rigid role modeling and social reinforcement is largely gone. Heh, my father only became my friend *after* I became an adult. Before, fuggetabout it. His leadership hit hard on the listed issues and, after a long life as an adult, I've found some interesting results

 

1) My integrity wavers in situations/am not honest

 

In a society which focuses on winning and power and pragmatism as paradigms of social and monetary success, steadfast integrity and unwavering honesty are no match for the social powers that be. Sure, one can have integrity and be honest as the day is long but don't expect any candy canes for that. One can die with a smile on their face, sure, but that's pretty much it.

2) My emotions or insecurities heavily affect my decisions

 

Heh, you didn't have the emotions beaten out of you? Yeah, neither did I. Big handicap in a male hierarchical society, at least in my generation. My role model got them shot out of him in the war. He was a good example of quiet stoic confidence but never taught it nor beat emotions out of me. Others tried their best but it wasn't the same.

3) I don't always weigh up think about consequences of actions

 

Spend too much time thinking things to death and someone else has already won the race. Again, no rewards for careful consideration of all angles of any issue except perhaps a smile on your face when you die. Sure, it might feel good to weigh all aspects and look out for everyone else but, heh, who loses? You do. You think they give a hoot whether you live or die? Think again. Watch it in action and see. Take your time. No rush. I've been watching for nearly 40 years as a legal adult.

4) I hold onto unhealthy/unsatisfying relationships

 

Yeah, that sucks, huh? Again, goes back to overthinking and considering all aspects and putting other people before yourself. Those tendencies may come from a healthy place but have no standing in modern society, especially as a man. Caretaker tendencies in a man are weak. Break the habit. Get tough. Be a man. You know, you've heard all that stuff.

 

Oh, don't go to counseling either. Real men don't need that hooie. It's weak. Heh.

 

Sincerely, find a path, as quickly as possible, that doesn't render you a cynical old fart like this poster is. Save yourself.

[Buddhist]

Nothing wrong with OP acknowledging some his troubles stem from not having those 18 years of male guidance. Recognising that missing balance does not make him a woman hater, nor an arse. Just a confused, uncertain young man who has missed out on the greatest gift and start to life a boy can have, a good father. He knows the root of his problems, smart lad, now it's up to him to cope with his disadvantage and learn for himself. Sadly, the hard way, as an adult.

 

Nothing wrong with acknowledgement no, bleeting 'unfair and I'm ruined' though is whole other matter. I was raised by a mother who is psychotic. And by that I mean violent, alcoholic with no grip on reality except revelling in her own selfishness and expecting 7 children to basically raise themselves or face a beating. It's no different to the OP actually, yet somehow I don't feel the need to ask the question.....how do I be a woman? I'm so disadvantaged because my mother wasn't a good role model, I simply can't even now.

 

The world does not care about your upbringing, childhood abuse or whatever. I've never been cut the slightest bit of slack in my life because of the above. I've still been expected to perform in all the ways the world wants you to in order to get by, fit in and make something of yourself. It's a big cup of concrete and harden up princess. But there's no prizes for snivelling into a tissue over things you can't change.

 

I can't think of a single man anywhere I've met who wanted to have anything to do with my issues. It was be the perfect girlfriend and don't put a foot wrong or we're breaking up. The truth is, no-one really needs to learn how to be their gender from having a same gendered parent who is healthy. That's such a rarity it's actually laughable to expect it. From my own experience the vast majority of people are unhealthy and model that for their kids. The OP thinks he's special and unique for not having another man to model himself after, when in fact he's probably in the majority.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Buddhist

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

And a man is not supposed to hate or detest being manly, masculine, dominant, which infuriates me more