Trane Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I was raised to be first when you see a senior, pregnant lady, disabled or anyone who is in relative need of support on the subway. Well, the reality of giving it up for a holocaust survivor reminded me that this old guy was near to my grandpa's age. When you see the tattoo you almost hope that it's a dream. It's not. That's the scary part because nothing used by modern imagery can tell exactly what they went through. His are the true stories. Anyone on LS with me about being first to give a helping hand no matter what? I think it is lacking in kids today. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Do_The_Herp Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Hmm.. To be honest, I thought this was going to be truly in-the-moment scary. Surely what you're alluding to is horrific, but your thread title gave me the wrong idea. Thought you were giving up the seat to a total weirdo or a mugger or something. Yes, as a young man, I've always offered my bus seat, even to middle aged men as opposed to the elderly. Compassion is lacking in human beings in general, especially when they're total strangers. The "scariest" experience for me, relating to extending polite gestures, was.. Sitting on the inner end of a two-person seat on the bus with an older man, and then asking him very politely "oh, sir, are you getting off at the next stop?" and then him looking at me angrily and saying something like "oh, what is it to you? you in a rush? got a problem punk?" or something like that.. I was just asking so I'd know I had to get up, I couldn't see how he'd possibly misinterpreted that, so I just got up and sat behind him, I believe, as he muttered and cursed under his breath like the angry old lunatic that he turned out to be.. Jesus christ, try to be polite and that's what you get in return.. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
pink_sugar Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Same here! Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Of course I give my seat up. Move when people turn up with kids, swap seats when people can't sit next to each other, etc. Urban courtesy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tbisb74 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I always give up my seat to anyone who obviously looks as if they need it more than I. As much for them, as for making the inconsiderate and ill-mannered men around me, squirm with embarrassment.... And I say so, too. "Shame the term 'Gentleman' is so difficult to apply, nowadays..." out loud, never brings a retort or riposte from the male travellers. At least, it never has to date, and I've been doing it for a while now. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 As much for them, as for making the inconsiderate and ill-mannered men around me, squirm with embarrassment.... And I say so, too. "Shame the term 'Gentleman' is so difficult to apply, nowadays..." out loud, never brings a retort or riposte from the male travellers. At least, it never has to date, and I've been doing it for a while now. Why should men be expected more to give up their seat than women? If you shame the men, you should shame the women too, no? Link to post Share on other sites
Tbisb74 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 No. It's a question of manners and chivalry, an old-fashioned concept which very few uphold nowadays. Men are supposed to be the stronger more resilient sex. I'm all for equality, but on social situations I am of the opinion that there are certain.... 'standards'. And those standards have slipped, dreadfully, sadly, tragically. When you consider that young boys in America were once expected to call their father ';Sir' it is a tragic indictment that manners have fallen so far down the list of priorities, that people now sometimes don't even know who their father is. Standards. Morals. Manners. All shot to pot. Why? Because it's easier to not give a damn. Just laziness. Rant over. Thank you. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Tbisb74 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 And tell me, is it easier for a woman to stand for a given period of time, in high heels, than it is for a man to stand for an equal period of time, in flat shoes? Exactly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 No. It's a question of manners and chivalry, an old-fashioned concept which very few uphold nowadays. Men are supposed to be the stronger more resilient sex. I'm all for equality, but on social situations I am of the opinion that there are certain.... 'standards'. And those standards have slipped, dreadfully, sadly, tragically. When you consider that young boys in America were once expected to call their father ';Sir' it is a tragic indictment that manners have fallen so far down the list of priorities, that people now sometimes don't even know who their father is. Standards. Morals. Manners. All shot to pot. Why? Because it's easier to not give a damn. Just laziness. Rant over. Thank you. Completely disagree. Equality means equal responsibility as well. Not to be the 'weaker sex' when it suits you. I find women who slip and slide according to what works for them do a lot of disservice to their own sex. They make the rest of us work harder to get respect. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Tbisb74 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 You shouldn't have to work hard for respect. it should already be there. The fact that you have to 'work hard for it' denotes an existent inequality. QED. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SuperGeek Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) I'm glad to have a nice gas guzzling SUV all to myself. Nice peaceful drive, no drunk guy puking on me, or some lunatic looking at me funny. Edited July 30, 2014 by SuperGeek 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SuperGeek Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 No. It's a question of manners and chivalry, an old-fashioned concept which very few uphold nowadays. Men are supposed to be the stronger more resilient sex. I'm all for equality, but on social situations I am of the opinion that there are certain.... 'standards'. Sorry but chivalry from men towards women is dead. It died just after the feminist movement came on the scene and provided equality for all. I stopped too because most women I've met in public simply don't want that kind of attention anymore. I've even been told 'I can get the door myself, thankyou'.many times. Or have been given the evil eye when I've helped a girl pick up something she dropped. It's not even worth it anymore. Not going to hijack this thread, but I just wanted to explain WHY chivalry is dead. Feminism destroyed it. Link to post Share on other sites
veggirl Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Ever since I saw a guy pee in his seat, I stand on the subway. Always. So my seat is free to anyone I guess! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tbisb74 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 You see, Emilia, it's all our fault. Of course it is. Men gave up making the effort, because we sought equality in the first place. Silly us. If we'd just agreed to remain tied to the kitchen sink with children clamouring at our petticoats, we'd be all right.... (talk about patronising....) Link to post Share on other sites
Do_The_Herp Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Sorry but chivalry from men towards women is dead. It died just after the feminist movement came on the scene and provided equality for all. I stopped too because most women I've met in public simply don't want that kind of attention anymore. I've even been told 'I can get the door myself, thankyou'.many times. Or have been given the evil eye when I've helped a girl pick up something she dropped. It's not even worth it anymore. Not going to hijack this thread, but I just wanted to explain WHY chivalry is dead. Feminism destroyed it. Personally, I just do that sort of stuff for everyone when I can, regardless of the "moral climate" or the majority etiquette where I'm at. I've never been given the evil eye or felt like my kindness was un welcomed as far as I can recall, but if they acted in such a way as you describe, I'd probably look at them like and say something like "are you alright?".. What are they going to say to me? "How DARE you do something nice for me! ARE YOU TRYING TO JUST GET INTO MY PANTS?!?!" Link to post Share on other sites
Author Trane Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 You shouldn't have to work hard for respect. it should already be there. The fact that you have to 'work hard for it' denotes an existent inequality. QED. Hate to say it but most people I know believe respect is not given, it's earned by treating others the way you like to be treated. Then you get it back in return. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Trane Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 No. It's a question of manners and chivalry, an old-fashioned concept which very few uphold nowadays. Men are supposed to be the stronger more resilient sex. I'm all for equality, but on social situations I am of the opinion that there are certain.... 'standards'. And those standards have slipped, dreadfully, sadly, tragically. When you consider that young boys in America were once expected to call their father ';Sir' it is a tragic indictment that manners have fallen so far down the list of priorities, that people now sometimes don't even know who their father is. Standards. Morals. Manners. All shot to pot. Why? Because it's easier to not give a damn. Just laziness. Rant over. Thank you. In todays world, men are the weaker sex by force and legislative change to suit the needs of the feminists. Men are only the stronger sex by excuse, when the damsels in distress bite off more than they can chew and change. As a result, lots of modern women have no shame in telling a man to "grow some balls," and use it as an excuse when their eggs can't cut it. Link to post Share on other sites
Tbisb74 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 What is it with guys who complain that feminism is a dirty word? Should we go back to the pre-days when we had unequal status on so many different levels? Men always complain women became worse post-feminism, rarely stopping to think what it was like for them pre-"feminist" days. And still today we fight for equal salaries and the rights many men naturally take for granted. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
iiiii Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I think men and women have equal responsibility to give up seats (and otherwise help) people who are weaker or otherwise less able than they are. However, I do think a chivalrous man is damn sexy. I am a feminist (and I like men too), and when my man holds the door open for me, or puts out a hand to help me up, it's still mmmmm. I don't know if he'd feel the same way about chivalry from me... I suspect not. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I don't know if he'd feel the same way about chivalry from me... I suspect not. Actually, men love it when a woman is as courteous towards them as they are towards her. I hold the door for everyone and don't expect men to get out of my way. They are very appreciative of that. Link to post Share on other sites
iiiii Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 But turned on by it? I'm not sure. I'll need to ask him. Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 But turned on by it? I'm not sure. I'll need to ask him. it could be a new little game 1 Link to post Share on other sites
littleplanet Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Chivalry isn't dead at all. Feminism didn't destroy nothin'. Seats get given, doors get held open, things get offered - all the time. I get smiles and thankyous from females 80 down to 8. Link to post Share on other sites
PegNosePete Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Everyone always claims they would give up their seat. I have a friend who was heavily pregnant, as in 8 months, who got on a train home from London. It was a very hot day and she was quite obviously tired and struggling. Not one single person offered her their seat. She had to ask in a loud voice "would anyone mind giving up their seat for a pregnant woman please?" and one guy grudgingly gave her his seat with a roll of his eyes and a look of disdain. So while in theory everyone says they would... in practice it's not so common. Link to post Share on other sites
Tbisb74 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Hate to say it but most people I know believe respect is not given, it's earned by treating others the way you like to be treated. Then you get it back in return. You're a man, aren't you? Ever tried being a woman and getting respect in the workplace because you have to earn it? Have you any idea how hard women have to work to achieve the same respect that men get - for doing the same job? Please, until you have been there, (and I have been in both situations - that is, I have been respected for my work, but also DIS-Respected, purely on Gender grounds) don't tell me 'respect is earned. That's just utter bull. Link to post Share on other sites
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