I really want to support feminism

[Bishop556]

I have always believed in equals right for everyone. Women have experienced hatred throughout history, and in this century many of the challenges they have suffered have been eradicated or diminished due to the progressive nature of feminism. Women deserve equal rights, and I do agree there are issues today that need to be addressed such as abortion, rape, and the such. There are also men's issues that are equally important: infant circumcision, divorce settlements, the fact that men are guilty before proven innocent in many instances. Sexism still exists towards both sexes. So, when I heard that feminism was acknowledging both men and women's rights and helping to fix these issues present in society today, I was completely on board.

 

One instance though changed my viewpoint slightly. I was on a camping trip with the LGBT community at my school and the topic of child custody came into question. My friend said it was sexist that men have less rights in this instance and that women usually can easily gain custody. By saying women are better caregivers, this supports sexism towards both men and women. However, this student who was majoring in Women's Studies told me that she was offended because my friend believed there was sexism towards men. She told me that it was sexist for me to believe that men could be victims and that women could never be the oppressors as men have been throughout history. I thought she was just radical and didn't think much about what she said.

 

So, I was watching videos on the Men's Rights movement because I beleive its best to understand both sides of an argument as many feminists are accusing them of being a sexist hate group. While I do not believe with all their views, they make a good point and I have not experienced the hate that feminists screamed about. I kept doing research and came upon a few videos:

 

 

 

 

Before you say that this is Men's Rights propaganda, I do agree that there is misogyny in the Men's Rights movement by radicals. However, the feminism shown equates to verbal attacks and a lack of respect for anyone who disagrees with them. In fact, through these videos I have come to the realization that feminism has become a hate group and surprisingly, the Men's Rights movement is a civil group that is looking for a honest discussion. Why can modern feminists not acknowledge and hear what someone who disagrees with them has to say? I would be very thankful for someone disagreeing with me as it would challenge my viewpoint which is important for growth. If this feminism, then I do not want anything to do with the movement. If you disagree, then you are a sexist and a rape apologist?This is not feminism, this is fascism. Now, I know you might say that not all feminists are like this which I completely agree, but if these views can be massed into a large protest with hundreds of college students, then these views must be widespread enough which greatly upsets me.

 

So, I want to support equality for both sexes without siding with the feminist movement. Somewhere down the line, the feminism movement has failed, so there needs to be a new movement that practices equality instead of what is shown in the links. I really want to support feminism though, but it seems that misandry is intrinsic to the movement. I really want to believe that what I am seeing is just a small, but vocal minority and this is not the basis. What can I do to support equal rights and not be subjected to this constant bickering between men and women about who is truly the victim because we all are? It serves no purpose to attack someone who has a different opinion.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Bishop556

[SillySilly]

I only have time for a quick response, but expecting equality between men and women is impossible. Women have been oppressed for millennia. Men are not oppressed, although they may occasionally be the victims of gender bias. The consequences of gender bias against men are extremely small when compared with the vast societal and psychological effects of oppression on women.

 

Most feminists I know are frustrated by people who enter the feminist discussion by advocating equal treatment of men and women. It is simply impossible, because of the way things have been throughout human history, to expect equality. It is also somewhat demeaning of the oppression that all women feel to compare it to the gender bias that some men may experience.

 

Feminism, to me (I'm a guy) is about understanding women's experience. This is difficult, because men never experience anything like it. You don't know what it is like to be sexually threatened, abused or assaulted. Some form of at least one of those will happen to every woman alive today. Think about that for a second, because you will never feel that as a Man. Then imagine what that does to the psychology of a person, who you would be if you lived (at times) in fear of sexual aggression. It is easier for most men to deny the suffering of women than it is for them to admit it, admit how they contribute, and to do something about it.

 

If you really want to support feminism, forget about men and focus on women. Talk to the women you know about these issues, and leave yourself out of the discussion. You are not talking to them about you, you are talking to them about them.

Edited June 20, 2014 by SillySilly

[Woggle]

I support the dictionary definition of feminism but much of the modern feminist movement has nothing to do with that. I just can't support people that hate me. No self respecting person would. Call me a sexist if you want but I have too much respect for myself to walk around apologizing for being born with a penis.

[pink_sugar]

I only have time for a quick response, but expecting equality between men and women is impossible. Women have been oppressed for millennia. Men are not oppressed, although they may occasionally be the victims of gender bias. The consequences of gender bias against men are extremely small when compared with the vast societal and psychological effects of oppression on women.

 

Most feminists I know are frustrated by people who enter the feminist discussion by advocating equal treatment of men and women. It is simply impossible, because of the way things have been throughout human history, to expect equality. It is also somewhat demeaning of the oppression that all women feel to compare it to the gender bias that some men may experience.

 

Feminism, to me (I'm a guy) is about understanding women's experience. This is difficult, because men never experience anything like it. You don't know what it is like to be sexually threatened, abused or assaulted. Some form of at least one of those will happen to every woman alive today. Think about that for a second, because you will never feel that as a Man. Then imagine what that does to the psychology of a person, who you would be if you lived (at times) in fear of sexual aggression. It is easier for most men to deny the suffering of women than it is for them to admit it, admit how they contribute, and to do something about it.

 

If you really want to support feminism, forget about men and focus on women. Talk to the women you know about these issues, and leave yourself out of the discussion. You are not talking to them about you, you are talking to them about them.

 

This. Feminism isn't about women hating men. Anyone can be a feminist. It just means you support equal rights and treatment for women. Of course there may be some haters out there, but the same goes for veganism. A couple bad apples seem to ruin the bunch. A lot of people perceive Vegans as stuck up and snotty and bash people who eat meat. There are quite a bit of vegans who do this...just like a lot of feminists who bash men. It's extremism at its best.

[littleplanet]

Personally, I don't believe a man can be a feminist. Wrong gender.

Supportive of......requires a little landmine strolling.......I've found.

 

My first dabbles happened back in the 1970's (a kinder, gentler time.)

 

There is egalitarian feminism (and that's all about equality.)

And then there is gender feminisim (which is an entirely different animal.)

 

But I'll stop right here for a moment, and suggest an interesting book:

 

Christine Hoff Sommers; "Who Stole feminism?"

 

Continuing:

I know an awful lot of progressive women who will have nothing to do with gender feminism. Many of them are good friends. There is absolutely nothing about me that they would define as "progressive."

(they just like me as a human)

 

But what they take great issue with, (among other things) is the culture of victimhood. I don't blame them.

If a man is guilty.....because he's a man (assumed) then how far have we moved along from the Salem witch trials?

 

If a male human infant is born intrinsically gender-challenged (by ideology) then what crimes may be practised upon him in the name of such ideology? Denial of his basic gender-specific nature, for example.

 

Now, it's an interesting thing. As far as we've moved along in our modernity, and as progressive as we've actually managed to be in our accomplishments toward a more egalitarian social construct.....certain realities still persist:

 

The vast majority of real (and not imagined) earth-shaking events that affect real people in their real lives all over the planet......

war / economic crises / religious oppression / and various and sundry crimes against humanity (including women and children)

are practised by men.

And the ones up there at the very top - who control it all...................

are almost entirely made up of one gender: men.

 

It is an admirable thing for progressive, intelligent, impassioned people to want to address this.

But the purveyors of that previously mentioned power have no problem at all with the masses far down the scale of power....endlessly dithering and bickering about the "little" details.

It's just simple divide and conquer.

 

A single man may be capable of being a beast within his own household.

But that is personal politics.

He is no more a representative of all men......than Lady Gaga is of all women.

 

Personally, I think I've always believed that gender wars invite endless backlash.

Perhaps understandable when dealing with narrow-minded people.

But when it climbs the stairs into academia and come back as intellectual bullying......well then.......

(I do recall Chairman Mao's bright idea for a cultural revolution, once upon a time.)

That didn't work out so well, either.

[learning_slowly]

But does the average western man cause women to feel insecure/harassed etc more than their male counterparts?. Maybe I have dated strong women, but they always seemed equal to all the men around them.

 

And as a strange observation, female bosses I have worked with, have usually been a lot harsher to their female employees, than their male ones!

 

You will still get the unequal situation caused by childbirth, but I think that is beyond human control at the moment.

[Taramere]

So, I was watching videos on the Men's Rights movement because I beleive its best to understand both sides of an argument as many feminists are accusing them of being a sexist hate group. While I do not believe with all their views, they make a good point and I have not experienced the hate that feminists screamed about. I kept doing research and came upon a few videos:

 

 

 

 

Before you say that this is Men's Rights propaganda, I do agree that there is misogyny in the Men's Rights movement by radicals.

 

Well, it is propaganda in terms of creating videos that show the enemy (feminists) in the worst light. I tend to think noisy activists always come across badly; like they just want to shut the other side down as opposed to having a reasoned debate. However, bear in mind that the founder one of the "leading" MRA organisations (A Voice For Men) was responsible for a site called "Registerher" which purported to expose personal details of female offenders - but actually included on the list any woman who said anything the MRA didn't like.

 

The site would list name, address, routes commonly taken to work etc. Very clearly encouragement to whatever nutter happened to read that site to stalk and harass women whose names were listed on it. For such crimes as, in the case of one blogger, suggesting discomfort with the idea of male nursery staff taking her little girl to the toilet.

 

That kind of thing isn't just simple misogyny, I think you'll agree. So against the background of behaviour like that, while the feminist protesters might sound like the unreasonable ones - from their perspective the university was hosting an organisation that has actively promoted harassment of individual women, has called for male jurors on rape cases to acquit in all circumstances (even where evidence is overwhelming) and that generally ridicules victims of sexual assault, advises them to STFU etc.

 

A leading voice in a movement can't just churn out that kind of hatred, hostility and irresponsible stirring up day in and day out, then expect to be provided with a cordial welcome from the subjects of its threats and harassment just because it feels like putting on a more reasoned voice for an afternoon and in front of the cameras. Personally I think those feminists rose to the bait - and perhaps many of them are of the aggressive disposition that positively enjoys rising to the bait (even if it harms their movement). That seems to be the case on both sides.

 

So, I want to support equality for both sexes without siding with the feminist movement. Somewhere down the line, the feminism movement has failed, so there needs to be a new movement that practices equality instead of what is shown in the links.

 

There already is, I think. It's called the sane majority. A lot of those activists seem to be either unemployed or supported by their partners. Sitting at home all day confirming their biases and whipping themselves up with the aid of the internet. I mean, how many people in real life do you know who act like either the feminists in that video or the MRA activists who run A Voice For Men?

[Buck Turgidson]

You don't know what it is like to be sexually threatened, abused or assaulted. Some form of at least one of those will happen to every woman alive today. Think about that for a second, because you will never feel that as a Man.

 

*clears throat* *raises hand*

Ahem. Excuse me, but no. I am a man and I absolutely do know what it is like to be sexually threatened, abused, assaulted, and raped, as I am the victim of female-on-male rape. According to the 2010 CDC National Violence Survey, some 5 million men report being "made to penetrate." So please kindly stop it with the hasty generalizations and don't tell me and 5 million other men like me what our experiences are. In other words, everyone is out there raping everyone else, and EVERYONE should cut it out.

 

I am proud to say that I am a male feminist.

 

But I am also a rape victim, disproving your claim that men can never be sexually victimized by counterexample. Your overgeneralizations of the male sexual experience is part of the gendered narrative in this culture that allows sex stereotyping and bias to continue.

[SillySilly]

*clears throat* *raises hand*

Ahem. Excuse me, but no. I am a man and I absolutely do know what it is like to be sexually threatened, abused, assaulted, and raped, as I am the victim of female-on-male rape. According to the 2010 CDC National Violence Survey, some 5 million men report being "made to penetrate."

My sincere apologies! I'm sorry that my ignorance has belittled your experience. I am researching male rape right now. Thank you for educating me.

[ChessPieceFace]

You can't change the world. Western women are now feminized by-and-large, and that simply will not change in your lifetime. You have observed correctly the terrible flaws in feminism. Your remaining questions would be answered by further research, helped by positive people in the men's rights movement (look for girlwriteswhat on youtube; I personally find the focus of most of her videos kind of boring at this point, but nevertheless she is generally right on the mark.)

 

The solution (for your life, again you can't change the world) is to look for women who haven't been corrupted by feminism. Women who aren't man-haters, who have realistic expectations of men, who are willing to give respect rather than only demand it. The easiest way to find that would be to look for Christian women. Not that Christian women are immune by any means, but it would be by far the best place. If you can't tolerate that / don't want to feel like a hypocrite then you could look outside Christian circles, but that will be exponentially more difficult. However, while finding a non-feminized non-Christian woman will be very difficult, weeding out the man-haters & feminists really won't be.

[Glinda.Good]

You can't change the world. Western women are now feminized by-and-large, and that simply will not change in your lifetime.

 

Correct! A human is "feminized" at the time of fertilization of the egg by a sperm, depending upon the chromosome carried by the sperm.

 

You smartypants!

 

I disagree with your second point, though. More change is possible in this era than ever before. Hormone therapy as well as sex reassignment surgery can reduce the feminization of women.

[SillySilly]

So please kindly stop it with the hasty generalizations and don't tell me and 5 million other men like me what our experiences are. In other words, everyone is out there raping everyone else, and EVERYONE should cut it out.

 

After reflecting some more, a few thoughts occurred to me. Again, I have only respect for you and your experience, and I in no way intend to minimize your pain, and I hope that you are able to process it and heal from it in your own time.

 

But I still think that discussions about rapes perpetrated against women and against men should be treated as separate discussions. Both are heinous crimes rooted in aggression, but they are not the same thing and in order to be the most fully respectful to the people who have been raped it is appropriate to consider the experience of a female victim from a different angle than the experience of a male victim.

 

And to clarify, when I said that men don't know what it's like to feel sexually threatened, I was referring to the following: It's very unlikely that a physically intimidating woman that you've never met will follow you on the street, harass you, chase you down, and physically force you to have sex with them. It is not impossible and I'm sure it has happened. But it is not something that most men live in fear of, or need to be wary of. But many women do experience the fear of having the same done to them by a physically intimidating man.

 

So to me, the largest difference is that the psychological effects of rape culture (especially fear) reach women before they are raped and even if they are never raped, whereas most men do not feel those psychological effects until after they have been raped. This is not to say that male victims of rape do not feel great suffering and need support and recognition from society, just that we need to look at male and female victims from different perspectives in order to be fully understanding, empathetic, and helpful.

Edited June 24, 2014 by SillySilly

[Targetlock]

I support feminism, gender equality and similar causes, but as with many causes I don't like the extremist view points that sour the whole discussion and why I don't like these kind of debates (they often just end up being nasty and leaving a sour taste in my mouth) I believe in gender equality and try and live by that ideal ( i work as a male care worker in a female dominated work place by the way.)

[jay1983]

Some feminist have turned MRA. They're not all crazy like the one's in the videos. Have you seen the latest from bane666? He reaches out to a feminist who claimed Elliott Rodger was an MRA. She actually responded to him and listen to what he had to say and found out that she was fed some misleading information about the Eliot Rodger case and about MRAs in general.

[serial muse]

If anything, Elliot Rodger had feminist ideals, not MRA or PUA ones.

 

I just had to quote this because it's so...so.

 

That popping sound you heard was the universe imploding.

[jay1983]

If anything, Elliot Rodger had feminist ideals, not MRA or PUA ones.

 

In any event, I try to stay away from these kinds of internet videos these days. It really doesn't do anything besides make me mad over the current state of affairs and how poorly men are treated. I think it's best just to know that these things happen and that this is how things are and go about your business. In other words, it's good to be red pill and have a deep understanding of how things work, but it's counterproductive to dwell on it.

 

That's easy for you to say, I have a 10 year old boy.

[jay1983]

Have you considered moving to a male-friendly country with your son?

 

My son lives with his mother, I get him on the weekends. Theoretically, let's say I was the only parent. Where would I go and what would I do for a living?

[Grumpybutfun]

Men who can support feminism and ignore manhaters who pose as feminists are mentally and emotionally well adjusted and are also are spiritually balanced. Might want to work on that. In other words, you can't support women's rights if you are mired in social and ideological quagmire due to inferiority, fear or insecurity.

Best,

Grumps

[Revolver]

Modern Feminism has basically become a caricature of itself

[Taramere]

I just had to quote this because it's so...so.

 

That popping sound you heard was the universe imploding.

 

The universe imploding maybe. Or it could have been a lizard shedding its scaly skin before shape-shifting into the form of a liberal marxist feminism embracing leader. Probably the reincarnation of Elliot Rodger himself. He said himself, while not (as it turned out) trolling a message board that he had exotic eyes. That was a giveaway. The sort of cunning hint lizard overlords drop while winking to their fellow shapeshifted reptilian friends.

 

And...oh hang on. I was going to say more but the red pill effects must have worn off. Hang on while I go to find another one and then I'll give you more info about reptolesbofemomarxotopamaxxology.

[todreaminblue]

i think it comes down to control and wanting to control either side ......and peopel gt puffed up with pushing it further and further down extremist lines..i will never cower down to a man.....and i follow a chain of command in the work place or wherever the chain fo command exists man or woman...i think people should respect people regardless of gender and there needs to be order to any system man run or woman run...........there should a be a respect people do un to others movement and i also have been raped doesnt mean all men are pigs who need to be controlled.....i reclaim my might(night) i joined that organisation when i needed it....now i reclaim my night by myself.....i stand alone ......i face what i have too by myself.....

 

 

 

 

i shy away from feminist movements because to me they go the other way ...more about respect and wanting control for a gender than people as a whole..do un to others makes it simple for me.....and if a man is at the head of a chain of command theres a reason for that....usurping men who lead and having less respect for men because they have earned their place wherever they are......not my cup of tea....but then i was a soldier....still am just not employed as one......i have discourse with my teen girls inserting their rebellion over my chain of command...so far we are about even thats what they think anyway...i have my own feminist movement at home there are four and a half females in my house..... and they suck frequently........deb

[Bishop556]

I honestly forgot I posted this thread. Thank you all for your responses. I want to ruminate for a bit before I post what I believe.

[Bishop556]

I only have time for a quick response, but expecting equality between men and women is impossible. Women have been oppressed for millennia. Men are not oppressed, although they may occasionally be the victims of gender bias. The consequences of gender bias against men are extremely small when compared with the vast societal and psychological effects of oppression on women.

 

Most feminists I know are frustrated by people who enter the feminist discussion by advocating equal treatment of men and women. It is simply impossible, because of the way things have been throughout human history, to expect equality. It is also somewhat demeaning of the oppression that all women feel to compare it to the gender bias that some men may experience.

 

Feminism, to me (I'm a guy) is about understanding women's experience. This is difficult, because men never experience anything like it. You don't know what it is like to be sexually threatened, abused or assaulted. Some form of at least one of those will happen to every woman alive today. Think about that for a second, because you will never feel that as a Man. Then imagine what that does to the psychology of a person, who you would be if you lived (at times) in fear of sexual aggression. It is easier for most men to deny the suffering of women than it is for them to admit it, admit how they contribute, and to do something about it.

 

If you really want to support feminism, forget about men and focus on women. Talk to the women you know about these issues, and leave yourself out of the discussion. You are not talking to them about you, you are talking to them about them.

 

I have to completely disagree with you on this. Unfortunately in our society, men and women are victims. I am a man and have been sexually assaulted by men and women and, yes, I have been cat called by women. Hell, I've gotten my ass grabbed on multiple accounts by women in grade school.

 

Now, I'm not implying one issue is more important than another, but how can you say men's issues are not equally important. For example, you would agree that female circumcision is wrong, right? Well, in the Unites States it is practiced for the majority of males. It is barbaric and is a human rights violation, and yet, you still believe men's issues are not equally as important? In terms of genital integrity women have more rights than men. That's just one example.

 

By only supporting women and forgetting men's issues, you are completely ignoring that men are affected by sexism as well and men have less rights than women in certain circumstances. The only way, I feel, that men and women both benefit from equality is by working together for women's rights and men's rights.

[Bishop556]

Well, it is propaganda in terms of creating videos that show the enemy (feminists) in the worst light. I tend to think noisy activists always come across badly; like they just want to shut the other side down as opposed to having a reasoned debate. However, bear in mind that the founder one of the "leading" MRA organisations (A Voice For Men) was responsible for a site called "Registerher" which purported to expose personal details of female offenders - but actually included on the list any woman who said anything the MRA didn't like.

 

The site would list name, address, routes commonly taken to work etc. Very clearly encouragement to whatever nutter happened to read that site to stalk and harass women whose names were listed on it. For such crimes as, in the case of one blogger, suggesting discomfort with the idea of male nursery staff taking her little girl to the toilet.

 

That kind of thing isn't just simple misogyny, I think you'll agree. So against the background of behaviour like that, while the feminist protesters might sound like the unreasonable ones - from their perspective the university was hosting an organisation that has actively promoted harassment of individual women, has called for male jurors on rape cases to acquit in all circumstances (even where evidence is overwhelming) and that generally ridicules victims of sexual assault, advises them to STFU etc.

 

A leading voice in a movement can't just churn out that kind of hatred, hostility and irresponsible stirring up day in and day out, then expect to be provided with a cordial welcome from the subjects of its threats and harassment just because it feels like putting on a more reasoned voice for an afternoon and in front of the cameras. Personally I think those feminists rose to the bait - and perhaps many of them are of the aggressive disposition that positively enjoys rising to the bait (even if it harms their movement). That seems to be the case on both sides.

 

 

 

There already is, I think. It's called the sane majority. A lot of those activists seem to be either unemployed or supported by their partners. Sitting at home all day confirming their biases and whipping themselves up with the aid of the internet. I mean, how many people in real life do you know who act like either the feminists in that video or the MRA activists who run A Voice For Men?

 

Actually, I know quite a bit. For example, I knew a feminist who thought men do not experience sexism. I know another feminist that called said I was sexist for holding a door open for her, which I do for men and women alike since it is good manners. I am not saying every feminist is an extremist, that's silly. I also do not believe most MRA activists are misogynists, that's not true. Many are fighting for very real issues such as the debate about infant circumcision. Both sides present reasoable arguments that need to be addressed.

 

But, I have a question for you, and I hope you do answer it. Warren Farrell, the man they were protesting against, was hosting a lecture on male suicide as the rate of male suicide is 4 to 1 in favor of men to women. The protesters were screaming that he was a misogynist, completely degrading women due to one quote from his book that could be interpreted as him supporting date rape. Now, he served on the NOW board and was a major male leader for second wave feminism. When asked if the majority of women read his book, they said no and assumed its main goal was to degrade women when they have no basis to say so as they did not read the book besides one quote that could be interpreted as sexist. I found that really frustrating and idiotic to assume something a book is about hatred for women without actually reading it first. Do you believe feminists and MRA's should be more literate and listen to the other side with an objective viewpoint before assuming the other side has a sexist agenda?

[Bishop556]

I only have time for a quick response, but expecting equality between men and women is impossible. Women have been oppressed for millennia. Men are not oppressed, although they may occasionally be the victims of gender bias. The consequences of gender bias against men are extremely small when compared with the vast societal and psychological effects of oppression on women.

 

Most feminists I know are frustrated by people who enter the feminist discussion by advocating equal treatment of men and women. It is simply impossible, because of the way things have been throughout human history, to expect equality. It is also somewhat demeaning of the oppression that all women feel to compare it to the gender bias that some men may experience.

 

Feminism, to me (I'm a guy) is about understanding women's experience. This is difficult, because men never experience anything like it. You don't know what it is like to be sexually threatened, abused or assaulted. Some form of at least one of those will happen to every woman alive today. Think about that for a second, because you will never feel that as a Man. Then imagine what that does to the psychology of a person, who you would be if you lived (at times) in fear of sexual aggression. It is easier for most men to deny the suffering of women than it is for them to admit it, admit how they contribute, and to do something about it.

 

If you really want to support feminism, forget about men and focus on women. Talk to the women you know about these issues, and leave yourself out of the discussion. You are not talking to them about you, you are talking to them about them.

 

I'm sorry for my previous post, I misread what you said. I thought you were saying that men were not the victims of gender bias and lack of rights in some regards. Sorry about that.

 

So you're argument is that you don't support men who advocate equal treatment to women? Well, by saying this, you are supporting the statement that feminism is not about equality at all. The definition of feminism is "the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men". So, if you are angry about men demanding the same equality women have for certain rights, which equality is the goal of feminism by definition, then what are you supporting? I do agree that it is impossible though for 100% equality, but why do you believe it is wrong for men to demand equal rights in circumstances such as circumcision and child custody? Because women have experienced oppression? Should white men not have the right to complain about current laws because blacks were enslaved in the past and suffered oppression? I, personally, believe not as that is a form of racism just as some, and I emphasize some, women who oppose men fighting for unjust laws that affect men are also promoting sexism.

 

Like I said previously, men and women both are experiencing inequality and sexism in different manners and I would not place one struggle above another as you do not know what that struggle has been like for someone. Like my previous circumcision example, after finding out what was done to me without my consent, I felt suicidal and fell into a major depression. I felt betrayed by my parents, and I was. Even today they don't agree with me no matter how much evidence I propose, their only argument is that everyone did it, so why not you? I have to deal with this, and trust me, in my mind it is on the same level of sexual abuse as I was taken away something from my own body without my consent. Does this mean women's issues are not nearly as important? Of course not. We need to focus on both men and women's issues as both are serious and deserve attention.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Bishop556