The hip hinge in a squat

[Emilia]

What's your view on it?

[Ninjainpajamas]

I'm just posting in your thread so it doesn't feel lonely...

 

I never tried it, seen a number of women doing it...I've only ever done power-clean, squat and deadlifts...also leg-press but I don't really count that into that group since it's on a machine.

 

I think you should just try it and see how you like it.

[Emilia]

Ha! Thanks. Yes I use the hip hinge already but I know some people prefer to break the squat with their knees first and prefer high bar over low bar (I'm the latter). Just curious what works for others.

 

Men use the hip hinge too.

[fitnessfan365]

1) A squat starts with the hips like you're sitting back in a chair and as you squat down your weight stays on your heels with your knees behind your toes. If your heels are coming off the ground or your knees are tracking in front of your toes, your form is off.

 

2) Always squat below parallel until your hamstrings and calves are fully touching. This squatting deep is bad for the knees crap is a common myth/misconception. When you squat low, you actually protect the knees by engaging more muscle groups to handle the weight. When you squat high, it is your knees that take the brunt of the pressure because they're stopping the full range of motion.

 

3) NEVER squat in the Smith Machine! Absolutely terrible for your lower back. Either do a traditional barbel squat in the squat rack, or do a DB goblet squat.

Edited June 3, 2015 by fitnessfan365

[Emilia]

1) A squat starts with the hips like you're sitting back in a chair and as you squat down your weight stays on your heels with your knees behind your toes. If your heels are coming off the ground or your knees are tracking in front of your toes, your form is off.

 

2) Always squat below parallel until your hamstrings and calves are fully touching. This squatting deep is bad for the knees crap is a common myth/misconception. When you squat low, you actually protect the knees by engaging more muscle groups to handle the weight. When you squat high, it is your knees that take the brunt of the pressure because they're stopping the full range of motion.

 

3) NEVER squat in the Smith Machine! Absolutely terrible for your lower back. Either do a traditional barbel squat in the squat rack, or do a DB goblet squat.

 

This thread isn't squat101. I'm specifically asking about the hip hinge.

[whirl3daway]

I am a hip-hinge, low-bar squatter myself. It seems like my body just naturally does this to feel comfortable. I had ACL reconstruction last year, using my hamstring, so maybe that's part of it. It just feels more comfortable to me than using my knees. Plus, yay more hammie and glute action!

[Emilia]

I am a hip-hinge, low-bar squatter myself. It seems like my body just naturally does this to feel comfortable. I had ACL reconstruction last year, using my hamstring, so maybe that's part of it. It just feels more comfortable to me than using my knees. Plus, yay more hammie and glute action!

 

Thanks!!! So you basically break your squat by leading with your lower back? This is how I can physically describe it. Also, low bar feels more natural. I push my elbows out to keep my upper back muscles tight and the bar in place. Do you have your wrists under the bar or do you keep your thumb on top and the wrist straight?

[whirl3daway]

Thanks!!! So you basically break your squat by leading with your lower back? This is how I can physically describe it. Also, low bar feels more natural. I push my elbows out to keep my upper back muscles tight and the bar in place. Do you have your wrists under the bar or do you keep your thumb on top and the wrist straight?

 

 

Actually, it's funny that you mention this. Right now I'm working on my wrist placement because sometimes the bar will roll around on my "shelf" and I end up placing more stress on my wrists. I keep my thumb on top and wrist straight. I find that the que to "try to bend the bar around your back" or whatever tends to keep my wrists in better placement, and stronger. What wrist placement do you use - do you have any wrist pain issues?

 

I do lead with my butt during the squat. I actually have a bit too much hyperextension in my back so I have to make sure I'm pressing hard against my belt and hinging with a purpose to ensure my back doesn't arch too much.

[Emilia]

I haven't had wrist pain issues at all yet, was watching a Mark Rippetoe clip and that's what made me conscious of it. I worry a bit about arching my back too much plus trying to avoid the butt wink as well.... Nothing is simple. Here is a very good clip. Long and not exciting but makes sense about bar grip. I'm trying to rebuild my squat completely.

 

[Imajerk17]

Hey Emilia, hinging at the hip isn't merely something that is nice to do or worth giving a try, it is something you are SUPPOSED to do when you squat. Whether you high-bar or low-bar. Its not just about helping you lift more weight, it is really about safety. Initiating properly--w a hip hinge--will help ensure that you don't put too much shearing forces on the knees (initiating w the knees instead of the hips will put too much shear on the knees), and whether you get into a good squat position at the bottom.

 

The hip-hinge at the initiation is more pronounced in a low-bar squat than it is in a high-bar due to the more slanted torso in the low-bar. The hip-hinge for a front-squat is *less* pronounced due to an almost vertical torso, but the principle is the same.

 

Yes, you also want your core braced as you are going down--spinal erectors firing, and you also want your knees to flare out to the sides i.e., hip abductors firing.

 

The "butt wink" btw is largely caused by short or tight hamstrings pulling on your pelvis. Lengthen those up and you will be able to keep your lumbar curve even at the bottom.

 

ETA: I am a bit confused by what you and whirldaway are saying about having "too much" back extension. Is there really such a problem? Most people, when they squat heavy, have the opposite problem; as in, they lose their back extension and their chest drops, and besides looking messy, it is a problem from a safety standpoint. A core that gives out also limits the amount of weight you can lift. So a core that stays so tight as it sounds that you both have, has to be a GOOD thing.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Imajerk17

[Phoe]

This is how I squat. I have the most garbage knees, plus I get waaaay more glute activation this way. I like to feel the stretching in my hip extensors. I also tend to take a wider than average stance to really get down deep.

[whirl3daway]

Hey Emilia, hinging at the hip isn't merely something that is nice to do or worth giving a try, it is something you are SUPPOSED to do when you squat. Whether you high-bar or low-bar. Its not just about helping you lift more weight, it is really about safety. Initiating properly--w a hip hinge--will help ensure that you don't put too much shearing forces on the knees (initiating w the knees instead of the hips will put too much shear on the knees), and whether you get into a good squat position at the bottom.

 

The hip-hinge at the initiation is more pronounced in a low-bar squat than it is in a high-bar due to the more slanted torso in the low-bar. The hip-hinge for a front-squat is *less* pronounced due to an almost vertical torso, but the principle is the same.

 

Yes, you also want your core braced as you are going down--spinal erectors firing, and you also want your knees to flare out to the sides i.e., hip abductors firing.

 

The "butt wink" btw is largely caused by short or tight hamstrings pulling on your pelvis. Lengthen those up and you will be able to keep your lumbar curve even at the bottom.

 

ETA: I am a bit confused by what you and whirldaway are saying about having "too much" back extension. Is there really such a problem? Most people, when they squat heavy, have the opposite problem; as in, they lose their back extension and their chest drops, and besides looking messy, it is a problem from a safety standpoint. A core that gives out also limits the amount of weight you can lift. So a core that stays so tight as it sounds that you both have, has to be a GOOD thing.

 

 

 

This is typically a female only problem, it's basically the opposite of having too much rounding in your lower back. The entire back is rounded inwards too much instead of outwards and it causes lower back pain. It's caused partly due to anterior pelvic tilt which is more common in the XX.

[whirl3daway]

I haven't had wrist pain issues at all yet, was watching a Mark Rippetoe clip and that's what made me conscious of it. I worry a bit about arching my back too much plus trying to avoid the butt wink as well.... Nothing is simple. Here is a very good clip. Long and not exciting but makes sense about bar grip. I'm trying to rebuild my squat completely.

 

 

 

 

I LOVE these clips by Rippetoe... that man is the best. Starting Strength is basically my bible.

[Emilia]

Hey Emilia, hinging at the hip isn't merely something that is nice to do or worth giving a try, it is something you are SUPPOSED to do when you squat. Whether you high-bar or low-bar. Its not just about helping you lift more weight, it is really about safety. Initiating properly--w a hip hinge--will help ensure that you don't put too much shearing forces on the knees (initiating w the knees instead of the hips will put too much shear on the knees), and whether you get into a good squat position at the bottom.

 

The hip-hinge at the initiation is more pronounced in a low-bar squat than it is in a high-bar due to the more slanted torso in the low-bar. The hip-hinge for a front-squat is *less* pronounced due to an almost vertical torso, but the principle is the same.

 

Yes, you also want your core braced as you are going down--spinal erectors firing, and you also want your knees to flare out to the sides i.e., hip abductors firing.

 

The "butt wink" btw is largely caused by short or tight hamstrings pulling on your pelvis. Lengthen those up and you will be able to keep your lumbar curve even at the bottom.

 

ETA: I am a bit confused by what you and whirldaway are saying about having "too much" back extension. Is there really such a problem? Most people, when they squat heavy, have the opposite problem; as in, they lose their back extension and their chest drops, and besides looking messy, it is a problem from a safety standpoint. A core that gives out also limits the amount of weight you can lift. So a core that stays so tight as it sounds that you both have, has to be a GOOD thing.

The thing is, a lot of people wouldn't agree with us on the hip hinge. Many break with their knees first because they focus on quad rather than glutes activation. Using the hip hinge also affects the depth you are able to squat to. I don't have a problem with butt wink because I don't go too low and because I don't pause at the bottom of the squat. In fact work on that explosive pushing up.

 

The problem with arching your back too much - and this is why many also don't do the hip hinge - is that over time it will lead to lower back problems and APT. You end up walking like Donald Duck basically. You see it in lifters all the time, occasionally really pronounced.

 

So as I don't want to end up looking like that but believe in the hip hinge and avoiding the butt wink (lower back rounding) I'm looking for the perfect controlled form. Hence the squat rebuild.

 

Interestingly not all lifters' gym follow the hip hinge route. I wasn't taught it originally.

[whirl3daway]

This thread has made me curious about what you guys squat? Today I just did 195lbs 5x5, which is a PR for me and socloseto200icantasteit

[Emilia]

That sounds very good! How long have you been squatting? Have you been considering something like the 531 program? Mine is nothing at the moment, have literally just started getting back to it and looking to nail form before start ramping it up. My 1RM was around 140lbs ages ago, about 5 lbs over my body weight.

[whirl3daway]

Thank you, Emilia! I started the Stronglifts 5x5 program last November as a way to rehab from ACL reconstruction, so I've been squatting for about 6 months. This program has been fantastic for me. My squats have gone from bar to 195, deads from bar to 205lbs, bench from bar to 110lbs, OHP from bar to 75lbs, and my butt has never looked better. I'm in the process of re-evaluating my program currently - I'm giving the 5/3/1 method serious consideration. Lifting has changed my life!

[Emilia]

I was doing deadlifts until Dec last year, made it up to 220 if I remember right and now back to squats. Don't really do the 4 lifts, I'm not organised enough to be consistent :/

[Emilia]

My 1RM on the squat is just over 400. Not sure exactly what it is at the moment since I haven't really been pushing my training as much in the gym lately.

 

I don't really like the 5x5 program. I usually do pyramid sets when I'm trying to get stronger. That worked better for me. I would just start with a lower weight on the squat, probably just 1 plate squats for a ton of reps. Then add weight each set until I can only do one rep.

 

The 5x5 is more a beginner's program.

 

400 is great. How long have you been squatting?

[Emilia]

Thanks. I've been working out maybe 3 years or so. I used to lift when I was younger too, but I stopped for about 10 years and picked it back up a few years ago. I slack off sometimes though, and take breaks for months at a time due to my work schedule. That sets me waaaay back each time. I pretty much only do strength workouts, focusing on compound exercises. I do a ton of squats, deadlifts, and benchpresses. I have a love/hate relationship with squats.

 

I think quite a lot of people have a love/hate relationship with squats. When you start going heavy relative to whatever level you are on, I think it triggers a flight or fight response. I think even Rippetoe mentioned that somewhere in an article and how people need support not only to monitor their form but also to help them through that time.

 

I take breaks from lifting to focus on mobility work or lighter weights, cable, farmers' walk, etc when I feel my muscles are getting too tight and too set in a certain way, not really sure whether I'll get back to working on 1RMs again. I think I'm happier in the middle ground somewhere, gaining strength but not bogged down in heavy sets and stress on the Central Nervous System all the time. It's quite tiring and I feel it restricts my life in a way.

[fitnessfan365]

This thread has made me curious about what you guys squat? Today I just did 195lbs 5x5, which is a PR for me and socloseto200icantasteit

 

Damn that is hot! But you'd better be going below parallel woman. Back when I was powerlifting, my PR was 505x5 below parallel. But I suffered a piriformis injury a few years ago. So haven't done any serious lifting since.

 

Now I do a lot of athletic performance training with a ton of INTENSE conditioning. Then for strength work I'll do compound exercises wearing a 50lb weight vest. However, with all the lunges and stair climbing I do in that thing, my legs/glutes have never looked better. Haha Do I miss intense lifting? Sure. But honestly, my joints and body in general feels much better since I stopped. I was at a point where I was out lifting the majority of people I was around, so I'm satisfied with what I accomplished back then. Have no desire to get back to it.

Edited June 9, 2015 by fitnessfan365

[Emilia]

Anyone else on the hip hinge? Those that break with the knees first and don't like the hinge?

[MrNate 2.0]

Anyone else on the hip hinge? Those that break with the knees first and don't like the hinge?

 

Honestly, throughout all the squats I've done competing through powerlifting and casual workout, I'm a big believer in the hinge. (I never knew there was a term for this lol)

 

The reason why is because of the simple fact it shifts the weight across your legs properly. However, because of the motion of the hinge, I'd make sure to have a belt when applicable, because holy god that lower back gets worked.

 

I'd never do it from the knees. Let them glutes get stimulated to the fullest.

 

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Side note: Whoever said squat that deep, please don't recommend that. Simply taking the weight slightly below parallel is effective enough to fully engage all the leg muscles, as well as create the necessary tension to come back up. To go any deeper is to actually put unnecessary stress on the knees, and is a waste of motion.

 

That energy can be saved for more reps.

[Emilia]

Thanks Mr Nate! Fully agree on the hinge. As for the depth, I stop just before I feel my lower back would round to avoid butt wink. Is that what you do as well?

[MrNate 2.0]

Thanks Mr Nate! Fully agree on the hinge. As for the depth, I stop just before I feel my lower back would round to avoid butt wink. Is that what you do as well?

 

Bingo, babe. That's perfect.

 

Yep. That's exactly where I stop. It keeps you from recruiting your back more than necessary.