My alcoholic ex

[Emilia]

So he asked me for a drink this evening but I said no because he had been in the pub for a while and I hate his drunk side. Other people are there too, it's not a date or anything. He doesn't get rowdy, he is just different, not the same person I like so much.

 

Of course he's gone quiet on me and I feel bad even though I know I did the right thing by saying that I disliked his drunk persona. I said sorry but I know I had to be honest because that was the reason for my not going. It's the reason for my not seeing him.

 

Saying so is the right thing, isn't it? I wouldn't have if he hadn't asked me. It's not like I go around bugging him, I only mention it when it comes up in conversation directly. However when his procrastination or the pub is mentioned, I do state directly that his booze is a problem and that I don't like it.

 

He knows he drinks too much. He knows he has a problem.

 

Is the best way making clear that you disapprove of it? Or do you skirt around the issue?

 

My cracking the whip kind of works because he has made big improvements to his life but I know alcoholism is a disease, I saw what it did to my father and I don't like that it affects my interpersonal relationships to this day. I guess I'm saying I'm not being naive about it, I know it's a lifelone fight.

[GorillaTheater]

I don't think there's any point in unnecessarily putting yourself in an uncomfortable situation, and I also think he knows you well enough to know that your declining to meet with him came from an honest place and was not a mere brush-off.

 

He didn't like it because he doesn't like what your conversation honestly said about him. One day he'll appreciate that more, IF he goes beyond recognizing the problem and actually chooses to do something about it.

 

My uncle was an alcoholic, and essentially pulled a "Leaving Las Vegas" and deliberately drank himself to death. Once I became aware that he was an alcoholic, I couldn't have a beer with him anymore. It was too painful and made me feel like an accomplice to his self-destruction.

[Emilia]

Your kindness always means a lot to me GT, especially so now.

 

You are absolutely right and you have written these words as if you had been reading my thoughts.

 

I cannot be an accomplice and I think honesty above all is extremely important. I think your real friends tell you what they think you should hear not what you want to hear.

 

I know he found my comment more hurtful than annoying but it is still the truth.

[Grumpybutfun]

Em, being honest with him may help him more than you know. When we accept destructive behaviors, we essentially are enabling them. From the pain you went through with your father, I can imagine his drunkenness is very triggering to you at times. You shouldn't be around someone who does something he knows makes you feel uncomfortable. You did the right thing.

In support,

Grumps

[Under The Radar]

You did the right thing: Both for him and yourself. Not skirting the issue shows more compassion and friendship than the latter. He knows he drinks too much and has a problem ...... and you declining his invitation to the pub further highlights that for him. He needs to know that the people who truly care for him will never encourage trips to the pub.

[Anela]

I can't be around my mother when she drinks. She kept demanding it, wanting it first thing in the morning.. until she became incontinent, and lost the use of her legs. Dad was spoon-feeding her (this was about two weeks ago, and last week). Even then, once something kicked in, and she was more alert, she wanted whiskey. She's stronger now, but only just walking a little bit. I was afraid we were going to lose her.

 

So I understand completely. I just get upset every time, and I poured a few bottles down the drain, when I was really upset.

[Emilia]

Thank you everyone. I sent him a text later just explaining better that I simply can't tolerate it after seeing what it did to my father and that I would have gone to catch up otherwise. He is such a cool guy, not some lazy no-hoper that I made him sound like.

 

He came to work yesterday after twisting his ankle at the weekend because I told him I felt odd being the only freak in the office (it's a sales floor, everyone else is an extrovert apart from him and I). Even though he wasn't healed yet he still came in for the day because I didn't like his not being around even though it wasn't the reason I said it. I was kind of horrified that he turned up limping

 

When someone is so awesome, it's hard to watch what they do to themselves. I think it's more that than the actual drinking that bothers me. He has ADHD and he doesn't have great coping skills to deal with all the conflict that it brings. His parents sent him here to the UK when he was still a kid to live with his cousins' family and I don't think he had that much support or a strong father figure. He is so smart, he knows exactly how bad this all has been to him and it's kind of why he picked me in the first place, I think.

 

Anyway, I know he listens to me and he knows I care, he told me so. I've decided to keep boycotting drinks out until one of us leaves this company. I won't bring any of this up unless he does. In which case will stick to my guns.

 

Thank you for the support everyone, I appreciate it more than you think.

[Emilia]

I can't be around my mother when she drinks. She kept demanding it, wanting it first thing in the morning.. until she became incontinent, and lost the use of her legs. Dad was spoon-feeding her (this was about two weeks ago, and last week). Even then, once something kicked in, and she was more alert, she wanted whiskey. She's stronger now, but only just walking a little bit. I was afraid we were going to lose her.

 

So I understand completely. I just get upset every time, and I poured a few bottles down the drain, when I was really upset.

Oh my lovely that's awful, I don't know what to say! Your father must be a saint. Seeing that day in, day out... That self-destruction. It must be so hard ((((((big hug)))))).

 

My dad stopped drinking when I was around 18, we weren't living with him anyway, only saw him at weekends but it was a miserable experience until he put an end to it when he started getting sick.

 

Booze brought depression and all sorts out of him, he was a different person. I remember the relief when he stopped drinking, my god was he a different person. Alcohol still killed him a few years later (liver) but he probably had a good 15 sunny years.

[Mondmellonw]

Emilia, I think I understand you.

I have been surrounded by alcoholism my whole life.

And my ex was also a person with drinking issues (not sure if he was an alcoholic).

He would always talk about wanting to go to drink with me. This never happened with some other guy, so, it was weird. He talked about it as if we were going to Disneyland or something (I mean, he was excited about the thought of going to drink together).

 

During our relationship I just saw him drunk once. But he will drink regularly with his friends (every friday or saturday night). And he would occasionally ask me to go to drink with him so I could see "he didn't had a problem".

I enabled him as much as I could by not accepting his requests of going to drink with him. But even after we broke up he still had his buddie with him. The drink.

 

 

If he is your ex... Why would you go out with him? Don't let his issues become yours, as I did with my ex.

[EverLastluv]

I totally understand how you feel. Its true they are totally different person when they drink. I'm seperated from my fiance at the moment because of him being an alcholic. I really think they dont like themself when they are sober. My fiance would not stay sober for a day he must endulge in a few beer before the day is up, that every single day!

 

I just cound not take it, If I do have any worlds with hime he would say "dont you miss me" I would say " whats there to be miss" If he was sober enough to benifit towards my relationship perhaps I would miss him.

 

All the best staying strong.

[SYLLPalmer]

I totally understand how you feel. Its true they are totally different person when they drink. I'm seperated from my fiance at the moment because of him being an alcholic. I really think they dont like themself when they are sober. My fiance would not stay sober for a day he must endulge in a few beer before the day is up, that every single day!

 

I just cound not take it, If I do have any worlds with hime he would say "dont you miss me" I would say " whats there to be miss" If he was sober enough to benifit towards my relationship perhaps I would miss him.

 

All the best staying strong.

 

I am both. I was ruled by alcohol and no longer am, yet have fallen under it"s influence again by permitting attachment to one who is. What you miss, or any of us who are attached to a person who prioritizes alcohol, is multifactorial but there is one common theme. We cannot accept them as they are for very obvious reasons and haven't found the willingness to change what we can. This leaves a void and as sense of purgatory. They give us half-assed attention which we accept as a surrogate for true intimacy. They have a choice and if they choose to change a long journey ahead but for us either way the only way is to walk away. You can do better. Let go.

[Emilia]

During our relationship I just saw him drunk once. But he will drink regularly with his friends (every friday or saturday night). And he would occasionally ask me to go to drink with him so I could see "he didn't had a problem".

I enabled him as much as I could by not accepting his requests of going to drink with him. But even after we broke up he still had his buddie with him. The drink.

He accepts it and he knows he has a problem. However - as someone else pointed out - that's not the same as doing something about it.

If he is your ex... Why would you go out with him? Don't let his issues become yours, as I did with my ex.

We work together so it's not so black and white. I have since cut contact with him though (separate issue) and only talk to him when it's work related and that's pretty scarce.

 

I was very conscious of making his issues mine, you are absolutely spot on. The thing with codependent relationships is that you involve yourself with another person on an unhealthy level. Thanks to this site and helpful posters such as yourself, I am very self-aware of that tendency.

 

What I did was linking all his emotional weakness and alcohol. I watched him every time he was going through something difficult at work turning to alcohol for support. That helped me rationalise why he would be the wrong choice.

I totally understand how you feel. Its true they are totally different person when they drink. I'm seperated from my fiance at the moment because of him being an alcholic. I really think they dont like themself when they are sober. My fiance would not stay sober for a day he must endulge in a few beer before the day is up, that every single day!

 

I just cound not take it, If I do have any worlds with hime he would say "dont you miss me" I would say " whats there to be miss" If he was sober enough to benifit towards my relationship perhaps I would miss him.

 

All the best staying strong.

Thank you and same to you, I hope you stay strong too!

I am both. I was ruled by alcohol and no longer am, yet have fallen under it"s influence again by permitting attachment to one who is. What you miss, or any of us who are attached to a person who prioritizes alcohol, is multifactorial but there is one common theme. We cannot accept them as they are for very obvious reasons and haven't found the willingness to change what we can. This leaves a void and as sense of purgatory. They give us half-assed attention which we accept as a surrogate for true intimacy. They have a choice and if they choose to change a long journey ahead but for us either way the only way is to walk away. You can do better. Let go.

I love this post, very well worded. Thank you very much.

[Medium.Lumo]

I'm sorry Emilia... you have helped me so much over the months, you are smart, level headed and kind, and don't deserve to be in such an awkward position.

 

I think you should actually confront him about it. If you still have feelings for him that might serve as motivation for him to change.

 

So he asked me for a drink this evening but I said no because he had been in the pub for a while and I hate his drunk side. Other people are there too, it's not a date or anything. He doesn't get rowdy, he is just different, not the same person I like so much.

 

Of course he's gone quiet on me and I feel bad even though I know I did the right thing by saying that I disliked his drunk persona. I said sorry but I know I had to be honest because that was the reason for my not going. It's the reason for my not seeing him.

 

Saying so is the right thing, isn't it? I wouldn't have if he hadn't asked me. It's not like I go around bugging him, I only mention it when it comes up in conversation directly. However when his procrastination or the pub is mentioned, I do state directly that his booze is a problem and that I don't like it.

 

He knows he drinks too much. He knows he has a problem.

 

Is the best way making clear that you disapprove of it? Or do you skirt around the issue?

 

My cracking the whip kind of works because he has made big improvements to his life but I know alcoholism is a disease, I saw what it did to my father and I don't like that it affects my interpersonal relationships to this day. I guess I'm saying I'm not being naive about it, I know it's a lifelone fight.

[Emilia]

I'm sorry Emilia... you have helped me so much over the months, you are smart, level headed and kind, and don't deserve to be in such an awkward position.

That's very sweet of you, thank you

I think you should actually confront him about it. If you still have feelings for him that might serve as motivation for him to change.

Oh he knows what I think and how I feel. There is a reason why we aren't on speaking terms at the moment. You know me, it's not like I am capable of hiding what I really think, haha

 

But as a serious point: the motivation of change has to come from within, a person has to change for themselves. Sometimes things have to go quite far before such a big decision is made. That is what alcoholics commonly refer to as 'hitting rock bottom'. Maybe he hasn't got there quite yet.

[Emilia]

Mine is definitely a cautionary tale when it comes to partner selection after a longish break from dating/relationship.

 

I had known my ex for almost 3 years before we started going out and although he hit on me (gently) a couple of times in the past, his moodiness always put me off because I know that that usually means. It is certainly something that I don't have a good way of handling.

 

Then we started socialising more and I got into my head that I wanted to experiment with something, we got talking and dating and my original instinct was proved to be right almost straight away.

 

That's no biggie - and it even reinforces good pre-dating screening - but it annoys me that I was caught up in it for so long. It's not really the working together part, it's more that childhood crap of abandonment issues, etc. Self-awareness and mindfulness are absolutely essential to untangle yourself from bad relationships!!!

 

He also helped me (indirectly) to tackle the BPDer ex issues. I've finally put that baby to sleep, haven't had contact with that guy for about 6 months and planning to keep it that way.

 

So just keep on trucking. I've learned a lot, mainly to trust my instincts.

[Mondmellonw]

We work together so it's not so black and white. I have since cut contact with him though (separate issue) and only talk to him when it's work related and that's pretty scarce.

 

I was very conscious of making his issues mine, you are absolutely spot on. The thing with codependent relationships is that you involve yourself with another person on an unhealthy level. Thanks to this site and helpful posters such as yourself, I am very self-aware of that tendency.

 

 

I see. I guess it has been a long journey for you...

But remember, once that we really accept that they have an issue, we can be more aware of our own stuff.

 

 

I have been learning a lot, too. I am 20, only had 3 relationships so far. But it wasn't til I was with my latest ex that I realized I had a pattern in the type of men I was choosing to be with... All of them loved alcohol.

 

 

 

I really, really will have this on the back of my mind from now on.

I guess I won't date any binge drinkers either. Haha.

 

 

Hope you are feeling better.

[Emilia]

I have been learning a lot, too. I am 20, only had 3 relationships so far. But it wasn't til I was with my latest ex that I realized I had a pattern in the type of men I was choosing to be with... All of them loved alcohol.

You sound very mature for a 20 year-old if you don't mind my saying so.

I really, really will have this on the back of my mind from now on.

I guess I won't date any binge drinkers either. Haha.

It's the weakness you need to look out for. Their inability to handle what life throws at them without a crutch. Their turning inwards each time there is a crisis. You don't want to be the one to prop them up, to 'help' them. It's a form of control.

Hope you are feeling better.

I am, thank you. I had conversation with my mother about this. How she has sought out similar men in her life despite trying very hard not to. We talked about the scariness of attraction to someone at a subconscious level. There is so little control.

 

Good luck with your journey. This place is very good for it.

[Missy0724]

Hi, Emilia - My opinion is, you have to decide what are your values and boundaries; what kinds of behaviors, choices are not OK for you, your life, what makes you happy, upset, feel uncomfortable. It's really about YOU, not him...

 

I dated a man for almost a year, and he was a moderate to heavy drinker. When he stressed or in uncomfortable social setting, he drank heavily. It made me very uncomfortable, as I'm just a social drinker. Two glasses of wine and I'm done, happy. I'm in my 40's, as was he. The days of drinking, getting drunk, looking like an idiot, are over. Sure, we've all been there. But there comes a time to grow up, mature, act like a responsible adult. Heavy drinking is very unbecoming on anyone.

 

Yes, drinking is a problem for some. I grew up with an alcoholic step father. He quit and was sober the rest of his life, active in AA. Yes, people can change and turn their lives around, only if THEY want to, THEY choose to.

 

Please remember that YOU cannot change anyone. Just YOURSELF and you can stay or walk. Depends on what you are willing to accept, tolerate, what makes you happy or unhappy. Do what is right for YOU! Always. If you love him and you see it affecting his life - yes, you need to talk openly with him. That is part of a healthy relationship! If he does not agree, gets mad at you, turns it around on you, etc. then you will have your answer! Addicts can have nasty personalities, be selfish, etc. Just part of their character... and until they quit that addiction, it usually accompanies them, their life, and anyone that chooses to be around them, with them. All we can do is offer our help, advice as a caring, loving friend. And their choice to receive that advice, or not. How he reacts to you trying to talk with him, bring it up, offer help - will give you your answer. If you are afraid to talk with him - then that's another issue re: your relationship and if it is healthy or not...

 

Good luck!

[Emilia]

Thanks Missy, I was planning to update my thread actually.

 

There is no relationship in any sense of the word, I'm not trying to change him - which is just a codeword for 'control' - or berate him, I'm trying my hardest not to be an enabler and I'm trying because I can't remove myself from his environment. I'm doing very well at work at the moment (touch wood), have just been promoted, I have a new boss who is pushing me onwards and I'm not going to throw that away.

 

He is sticking around because .... you know what alcoholics are like when they have gone beyond a certain point: his life is planned around the booze. He doesn't have the drive to change what he is unhappy with. If I had realised the extent of his problem I would have never got involved and equally, I would have cut contact with him back in November if it was that easy.

 

As it is, we have an uneasy compromise and it has worked for 2 months now. Very little contact and no socialising after work, when we end up in the same pub we stick with our own circle and there is no crossover. I made this very clear. Despite this, we have a good working relationship - which is down to his generous nature I have to say. He is a moody f***er to a degree but he completely controls himself around me. I know he is/was angry but he never lets it loose. He is actually very generous to those he likes.

 

So we have an uneasy truce going on and enough distance to keep it going for a while. There is no communication unless it's stricly work related.

[Emilia]

Still going strong on the 'not being an enabler' front I think. After that big row over his drinking, things have become more amicable but I'm finding it very easy not to socialise with him. As much as I enjoy his company and I like it when he comes over to talk, I've set up my exercise and after work activities in a way that basically stops me from going to work drinks when he is likely to be there. I always clarify when he is likely to be somewhere and I don't go when he is.

 

I know it doesn't sound much but anyone with experience of codependency knows how hard it is not to 'help' the other person, not to try to control them, how easy it is to use your empathy the wrong way and to project. He's been off for most of this week and I have fought my instinct to find out what was wrong or why or if anything happened (I know he is not on holiday and that he is working from home). It's more like 'he is an adult, treat him that way, he tells you if he wants you but really his problems are not your problems anymore' and I've been sticking to that.

 

I've also sorted out a few other interpersonal relationships that had been hanging around dysfunctionally for too long.

 

Might start a codependency thread.