16 Shots of Whiskey.

[faux]

There is a desire for alcohol in my blood. My father until just a few years ago was a rather horrid alcoholic. His parents were both alcoholics, almost to such an extent that they were a few steps beyond alcoholic. I had to grow up with my father, and I fear that genetics and nature Vs. nurture have played their part...

 

Since I turned 21, I developed a taste for alcohol. I started out with soft, malt drinks, but over the past year have developed a greater love for higher proof liquor (50 and higher).

 

Yesterday, I purchased a pint of Whiskey. Tonight, it is gone. I believe I had five shots last night, which I do not feel is a lot. Tonight I had... sixteen (16) shots (the entire rest of the bottle). I took a nap, woke up, and I feel perfectly fine. I begin to worry, but at the same time want MORE. 80 proof whiskey, 16 shots. Bad I think, yes?

 

I know what the answers will be. Anyone who I have lately spoken to about drinking has come out the same way in conversation.

 

Them: Well, when you drink, what do you drink and how much?

Me: I like vodka, or whiskey. I usually only have five or six shots. Ten at most at once.

Them: Five? TEN!?!?! That's a LOT!!!!

Me: It is? Well, I have a gulp of water between every shot though.

Them: [stare in disbelief] Wow. That's not good.

 

As I said, I begin to worry. However, I really, really, REALLY like it. This can't be good. Whenever I go drinking, five shots of 80 proof or higher is my standard. I'm expecting the typical results in responses, but I think that coming out with this, even "anonymously" is a start for me.

[magda]

It doesn't matter how much it takes you to get drunk. It matters why and how you drink. An alcoholic is a person who drinks with the intention of getting drunk.

[moimeme]

You're right in thinking this is not a good thing, Faux. Booze kills brain cells and does bad stuff to other important organs. It's a poison of sorts and the fact that you have trouble passing it up is really, really not good.

 

If this were a woman who was mistreating you, you'd realize that you were in harm's way and do something to get away from her. You know you need to do the same with the bottle.

 

Congratulations on taking the first step!

[faux]

Originally posted by magda

It doesn't matter how much it takes you to get drunk. It matters why and how you drink. An alcoholic is a person who drinks with the intention of getting drunk.

 

I drink because I love how it feels. I love how it stings in my throat, and how it stays on my breath. I love how it tears my eyes, and serpentines through my veins. It takes me away from things, and the taste of even 80 proof and higher is just... great. The bite... the hard taste...

 

Originally posted by moimeme

You're right in thinking this is not a good thing, Faux. Booze kills brain cells and does bad stuff to other important organs. It's a poison of sorts and the fact that you have trouble passing it up is really, really not good.

 

I hate how this is like smoking. When I was a smoker, I didn't care what was going on within my body. I knew! I was taught in school! Every smoker knows what smoking does to his or her body, but the smoker continues. Now it happens with booze. Why can't I listen? I KNOW BETTER.

 

If this were a woman who was mistreating you, you'd realize that you were in harm's way and do something to get away from her. You know you need to do the same with the bottle.

 

I would definitely do that. I find, for some reason, that the bottle is hard to walk away from. This bothers me. I do not want to be like my father. I know well what I went through as a child, from a baby until age 19. I know what my mother went through. My mothers knows how much I drink. She cried when I told her. She left my father.

 

I don't want my mother to disassociate herself from me. I couldn't take that. She's the only one who was ever there for me.

 

Congratulations on taking the first step!

 

I thank you. But still, I fear.

[moimeme]

Don't buy it, Faux. Banish it from your home. The reason you have trouble ending it with your friend is that it actually becomes craved by you. And, you may not want to hear this, but a LOT of people with conditions such as yours end up self-medicating with alcohol or other substances. Their bodies know they need something and they put the wrong things into themselves in hope of quelling the craving.

[magda]

The longer you habitually drink, the harder it is to break those habits. How hard are you willing to struggle? It's harder to be an alcoholic than it is to be sober.

[pav186]

I can kinda relate to you faux, there are several alcoholics in my family tree and my current drinking patters are not very healthy. While I don't really get the cravings for alcohol like you do, I find that once I start drinking its hard for me to stop. Like you when I tell people the number of drinks i've had in a night people are generally shocked. When I was 18 over the course of about 7 hours I exceeded 20 shots of Jim Beam, prob 22 or 23. The next day when I went to an online b.a.c. calculator it told me "Error, quantity too high" not to mention the fact that many people I told that to flat out didnt believe me. But like she said its not really quantity its when and how and ive only used it to "self-medicate" a few times...but i mean, who hasnt had a few drinks because of a bad day??

 

But if you notice the things that you do, like literally craving alcohol you should talk to someone. That would be the very responsible thing to do, it could literally save your life. Alch Anon or any of the other resources out there, you're better off starting sooner rather than later because little by little it will consume your life. First its you'll havea few drinks at night, then its you have a few with dinner, then youll be stopping at a bar on your way home from work, then youll be drinking on your lunch hour.

 

 

I'm very happy that you are confronting this early on because most people are in denial for a while and have to hit rock bottom before they even make the first attempt to change. You seem like the introspective type so you can use that to your advantage by being open and honest about yourself and your alcohol use.

[CurlyIam]

I personally do not believe in the genetic predisposition to drink. Because that's all it is, a predisposition, not a trait of caracter. Every person is grealy influenced by the environment they live in, by those with whom he interracts. Thus his caracter is formed, based on his prior experiences.

 

I just think it depends a lot on personal choice. For insance: My father's mother used to have a drinking problem. My father's sister had a severe drinking problem.

When I was a child, my father had a few encounters with this demon himself. He said he did it because he was weak.

 

I feel no need to drink. Neither does my sister.I did feel tempted by it, I had the "friends" and many many ocasions to drink - Europe is less strict about age and alcohol consumption, so I had alcoholic drinks at less than an arm's length for as long as I remember.

 

I have a problem with men who like drinking because I saw where it could lead - my parents almost divorced,emotionally scarved children etc. I like to drink at dinner, at parties and I do permenantly have a bottle of Porto Rozé at home as my galfriends love it!

 

Actually, now that I think of it ever since I arrived here I've tried on many types of wine. Some are exquisite, others make you shiver, the taste can be incredible, getting dizzy is a fact of life. This I can relate to.

 

But drinking because you love the way it makes you feel inside... This I cannot understand. You love it compared to what? From my father's experience, this temptation always rises when something else is going on in your life. Back than he got this job far beyond his expectation and it was a mixture of thrill and stress.

 

LOOK at the context. You are a very well articulated young man, smart enough not to hide behind "I love how it feels". Unprotected sex feels great also, but that's how you can get aids!!!!

 

Don't play with it, THIS is serious. I tend to believe it's just a momentary "infatuation"- again, why now? - came to your senses and grow out of it! I'm repeating myself, but you're too smart to fall for this, so stop fooling around!

[ladyangel]

Great post, Pav. There is research that indicates that alcoholism has a genetic link. But my family is also an example that just because your parent was an alcoholic doesn't mean you have to be. I think people use that as an excuse too often. (I'm not talking about you, Faux).

 

My father was an alcoholic -- he's deceased now -- but out of four children, none of us has ever had a drinking problem. I do believe that alcoholism is more of a possibility, perhaps, the more you are exposed to it and raised with it as a way of life. My father and mother divorced when I was nine and we were not around him much at all during the rest of our growing up. Maybe that has something to do with why we didn't start drinking...???

 

I definitely think that people who drink too much (or do ANYTHING to excess) are trying to fill a void of some kind. The secret is to figure out what the void is and try to fill it in a positive way.

[scottskerik1973]

first of all congrats on talking about the drinking. That in its self says you think drinking the way you do might be a problem. I am an alcoholic. Although I drank for 13 years everyday I can honestly say I hardly ever drank to "GET DRUNK". This is not whats puts you into the alcoholic family. You are an alcoholic when (usually without you knowing) you drink because (fill in the blank). Alcoholics drink for thousands of reasons and situations. You dont even have to drink yourself under the table everyday to be an alcoholic. I myself was a cat. 1 alc. which in redneck terms means functioning alcoholic. I had a great job, three homes and all the money I needed. At the same time I was drinking (what I called social) everyday. This went on for 12 years. I was proud of my accomplishments and couldnt even begin to understand people who would talk to me about my beer drinking.

 

Until one day my life went upside down. Why? I cant even tell you what hit me but I woke up from this everlasting fantasy and realized where did my houses go. Why was my boss about to fire me. And most importantly why is my family in turmoil. It took me about a half a second to realize my social drinking was more like my drinking is killing me and my life. I went to a recovery program and learned some tools on living life without alcohol. Just to let you know I went to rehab because I tried to quit myself but my social drinking wouldnt allow me to go one day without a beer. I always found a reason to drink and feed my disease.

 

I wouldnt call you an alcoholic. I will always allow the individual to call themselves one. Try and not drink 1,5,10 shots for 90 days. See what happens. If nothing else you will save some money. Just do yourself the biggest favor in the world and be honest with yourself. good luck

[moimeme]

I personally do not believe in the genetic predisposition to drink. Because that's all it is, a predisposition, not a trait of caracter. Every person is grealy influenced by the environment they live in, by those with whom he interracts. Thus his caracter is formed, based on his prior experiences.

 

You are welcome to believe in whatever fiction you like, but if you are interested in fact and truth, you'll find it in science, and science has proven genetic links to alcoholism as well as to many mental ailments. We are not anywhere near 100% nurture; nature plays a more important role than we thought for a while.

[amerikajin]

I don't buy the genetic link to alcohol. I think it's junk science and another excuse to explain why people abuse susbtances.

 

The real reasons for substance abuse have more to do with one's state of mind. Many people go through a phase in their lives, particularly when they're young, when they think that getting drunk is a kind of cheap thrill or something fun to do in the presence of others.

 

For some, though, that cheap thrill turns into a kind of compelling pyschological and physiological want or need, which leads to the habitual abuse of the substance. Alcohol, unlike some narcotics, is physiologically addictive, meaning that once your body gets used to certain levels in the bloodstream, it has a hard time remembering the body's normal pre-alcohol state. The body becomes so dependent on it that it's impossible to stop without medically supervised withdrawal.

 

You're playing a dangerous game, kid.

 

Stop.

 

Now.

 

Completely.

 

If you can't stop, get help.

[befuddled11]

Originally posted by faux

80 proof whiskey, 16 shots

 

Hmmm. 16 shots of 80 proof whiskey consumed in an evening would likely cause you to have sustained alcohol poisoning.......yet you say you felt fine? No offense, but I get the sense you exaggerated the amount and/or strength of booze you consumed. I've seen your pictures in your avatar, and you're definitely not a huge guy. So what gives?

[moimeme]

think it's junk science and another excuse to explain why people abuse susbtances.

 

I don't know why people must get their knickers in a twist over this stuff. To me, any scientific explanation for things like this means that the next discovery will be improved treatment or a cure. I celebrate any and all (reputable, of course) studies that promise hope for some of life's thornier problems.

 

Yes, some people will always use that information as an 'excuse', but more often, people are then encouraged to go about getting help a different, and potentially more successful way.

 

And there is not thing one wrong with that.

[faux]

Originally posted by befuddled11

Hmmm. 16 shots of 80 proof whiskey consumed in an evening would likely cause you to have sustained alcohol poisoning.......yet you say you felt fine? No offense, but I get the sense you exaggerated the amount and/or strength of booze you consumed. I've seen your pictures in your avatar, and you're definitely not a huge guy. So what gives?

 

This is no exaggeration. I went by the size of the shot glass that I had at the time. 80 proof alcohol is 40% alcohol by volume, and that night I downed sixteen of those shot glasses, not necessarily one after the other, right in a row. That night I did consume as much as I stated. Perhaps that shot glass is not the same size that you are accustomed to.

 

The only person I know who suffered from a case of alcohol poisoning consumed far, far more than what I had that night.

 

Either way, it's a problem, and this past Friday I did get very, very sick, and consumed more than the supposed sixteen shots. I was aching, unable to eat or move much, until Saturday evening. I was still woozy and unable to really do much of anything until Sunday.

 

I am simply going to try not to buy any more alcohol, and try not to be around it. If there is alcohol near me I will drink it. This Friday I hope to be one week sober.

[Thinkalot]

Good for you faux! That is a great first step forward. I'm sure you'll get through the week sober. Believe it yourself too. And don't give into the temptation to buy any alcohol. Do something else instead if the desire starts burning away inside you.

 

It's great you had the courage to post about this.

[amerikajin]

am simply going to try not to buy any more alcohol, and try not to be around it. If there is alcohol near me I will drink it. This Friday I hope to be one week sober.

 

Faux,

 

I'm about to be a little blunt with you but before I get into that, don't think of me as a mean s.o.b, think of me as the drill sergeant you see in my avatar picture. Call it tough love.

 

Okay, now, wake the f_ck up!!!

 

Don't say you're going to "try" not to do something; just don't do it! Try is another way of saying "I probably will ______"

 

Don't hope to be sober; be sober.

 

The first thing I'd do is tell someone you can share this with in confidence, like a good friend or family member. It'll keep you honest and it will ensure that someone's watching over your shoulder, which is honestly what an alcoholic needs. Alcoholics don't need pious nags, but they do need a support system. Find one. Use it.

[Papillon]

This puts your previous avatar of you sitting at the bar taking a shot into stark perspective. My father was an alcoholic, until diabetes, the loss of a leg, and cancer, put him on the straight and narrow. I normally NEVER advise counselling, but maybe in your case it would be a good idea. And stay away from bars and pubs.

 

Think about how alcoholism will affect your artist's eye....

 

Read the book "The Testament" by John Grisham.

[CurlyIam]

Ok, I've finally found it! I have "the argument". You're 21, right? Imagine becaming an alcoholic, as temptation is great etc etc (the reasons people start this). You start thinking one day you'll stop right (unless you're into death at the end of the road - very bad joke, I know), eventually seek medical care. Meaning you'll have to avoid bars and parties, as people drink when gathering. And notfor just a while.

 

I don't know what this does to you, but I love going out. I love parties, I adore having a glass of wine with my friends. Imagine you'd have to stop doing it. They'll drink fancy cocktails and you'll be sipping "Sherley Temple"! Choosing to drink now actually is choosing not to drink for the rest of your life! I'd hate to have this happen to me!!!

[amerikajin]

I meant to reply to this earlier.

 

>>>I don't know why people must get their knickers in a twist over this stuff. To me, any scientific explanation for things like this means that the next discovery will be improved treatment or a cure. I celebrate any and all (reputable, of course) studies that promise hope for some of life's thornier problems. <<<

 

Relax Moimeme, I wasn't jumping on your case or anything; I was just saying that I don't buy the genetic link that scientists have supposedly found. For one thing every study I've read about has never been entirely conclusive, and for another, I have enough experience in dealing with alcohol to know for myself what is and isn't true about the disease. My own father battled with it at times in his life, and when I was in high school and college I drank a little too frequently myself (under certain loopholes, errrr, circumstances, drinking was legal at age 18 in Louisiana when I was growing up). I simply made a series of decisions that forever changed the outcome in my case. I decided that it was potentially destructive and that it was time to take steps to regulate myself. I set up ground rules with respect to my possession and consumption of alcohol. As a matter of policy, with a handful of exceptions over the years, I have not kept alcohol in my refrigerator. I still drink, and once in a long while, I drink a little too much, though it's been quite a while since I've done that as while.

 

Do I believe some people are more predisposed than others to become alcoholics? Yes, I do, but I think the reasons are still elusive and are probably more pyschosocial than genetic. People are not victims of alcoholism the way they are victims of the flu. It's a disease, but to some extent it's a disease of choice. The quality of Faux's decisions now will determine whether or not he has to go through the hell of alcoholism later.

[moimeme]

To some extent, you're right, but I think that people need to understand that genetics might bite them in the butt. My granddad was an alcoholic and an uncle and aunt on that side also drank quite a bit. Mind you, my dad got sick rather than drunk so I never saw him drink and maybe I take after him. All I know is that because of my family history, I never have been drunk and I expect to never get drunk on the off chance that I like it too much or that some little switch shuts on in my brain. Mind you, I probably am my daddy's girl because at a certain point, I find the sensations of having had alcohol very unpleasant so I doubt I could get past that to drink enough to get to drunkenness.

 

I wouldn't discount the genetic link for that reason! It's a great warning, IMHO.

[amerikajin]

I hear ya, and I guess one can't rule it out entirely.

 

My own theory is that the link between generations has much to do with the personalities of the people who raise the next generation. How much is genetic? How much is environmental? Who knows??? I don't think that people are automatic alcoholics from the first sip. I think, though, that behavioral patterns induced by conditioning and circumstances make it more likely in some people that they will drink to excess and do it again until it becomes a problem they can no longer control.

 

I think the difference between an alcoholic and everyone else is that somewhere along the way, non-alcoholics face up to reality and understand that they are headed down the wrong road. This apparently happened in George W. Bush's case when he was dancing atop barstools drunk and naked, and he swears never to have had a drop since. In this case, I actually believe him. It echoes similar stories I've heard, and it somewhat mirrors my own.

[moimeme]

But some people make the same attempt with the same good intentions and disastrous results. These dopamine receptors are kinda suspect. I think people like you who can walk away are the lucky ones. But some people are sucked back again and again, even despite their own aspirations and this is where biology comes into play, I do believe.

[amerikajin]

I think that might be case in a select percentage of alcoholics, but my guess is that most people can walk away before they become chemically addicted. Of course, once someone is addicted, it's almost impossible to do without a forced withdrawal, which can be a dangerous process. I think it's the same with nicotine, which is probably even more addictive than alcohol. I went through a similar experience with smoking. I tried it a few times, and perhaps a few times too many - to the point of realizing that I was starting to get into some choppy waters. Again, I made the decision to stop. Many people do. The ones who don't become addicted, and once addicted, it's quite difficult to stop.

[pav186]

Its really not as easy as saying just dont drink, although i do believe that a person ultimately has control over what they put into their body but I can tell you first hand that its a little more complicated than that. And I certainly wasnt trying to use genetics as an excuse and just so you guys know they have isolated a single gene that is very highly correlated with alcoholics. And not everyone who has a predisposition to something eventually comes down with it but psychologists call this the vulnerability-stress model. You have a certain vulnerability to certain traits based on your genes and your stress/environment have a lot to do with whether the trait is triggered or expressed. That is why things like depression often run in families. Since they have similar genes and live in similar envirionments they are more likely to be triggered. Also, substance use like alcohol affect the brains dopamine reward system and like everything else this affects different people to varying degrees. So jsut because one person has 2 parents who are alcoholics but didnt become one doesnt men that someone who has an alcoholic uncle didnt inherit the trait.

 

Basically i see a lot of the nature vs. nurture debate but its not black and white like that. Its a very complex interaction between your individual set of genes and your cumulative life experiences. There's different fields of psychology (behaviorism, biological, cognitive, psychoanalytic) who still debate this whole thing to no end so if decades of scientific research have not yet discovered the answer I dont think any of us know it either.