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He desires his mother sexually.


AMJ

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I've posted about this relationship in the Other Man/Woman forum because, he is married. We have a long-distance emotional relationship, which is also obviously a problem. Regardless of what happens between him and I, I do still care about him as a friend very much, and we have been friends for over a decade.

 

A few months ago he told me that he was sexually abused by his mother as a child. He's never told anyone, not a therapist, not his first wife, not his current wife, none of his siblings know. He doesn't think that any of his siblings were abused by her.

 

I've looked online for resources and information to help me have the right things to say to him, and I have encouraged him to talk to a therapist, but I don't think he will. The problem is that it's not like something horrible happened to him as a child, and it's just a bad distant memory. He still desires her, and then hates himself for it. He has sent her naked photos of himself, and she has sent him named photos of herself- recently. They don't have much of a relationship at all at this point, and live far away from each other. Actually I live closer to her than I do to him. But a few years ago he was visiting her, and he said that they kissed and fooled around, but didn't have sex. He says she was abused by her brothers and father when she was a child...so the cycle continues, right?

 

I'm not completely overwhelmed with this information, but being the only person in his life who knows does carry a certain responsibility. Other than suggesting he talk to a therapist, which feels like such a cold thing to say to a person. I'm a huge believer in therapy and personally know that it's the best way to heal from any type of abuse, if not the only way. But I also know how it feels to carry around a painful secret, to finally trust someone enough to tell them about it, and then have that person say- well I can't really help you, you should pay a stranger to listen to this weird ****.

 

I just don't really know how to respond to him still desiring her so much. The fantasies he has about her can get really twisted- and now sometimes involve me! Does anyone have advice about incest and its aftermath?

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SincereOnlineGuy

All I can add is that your understandings and conclusions sound as if they are right on target.

 

The abuse cycle continues, and it is perfectly normal that people who are abused in certain ways and from certain directions often develop a strong draw right toward that form of sexuality and often seek (adult sexual satisfaction) from the same directions (in relation to themselves).

 

 

But IF you are someone who honestly has any designs on being partnered with this guy and sharing kids with this guy, you know in advance that the abuse cycle is almost sure to continue.

 

 

The amount of therapy needed to offset such a concern is immense, and just think how many years it would take for him to be free of his marriage, and free of most of the effects of his abuse.

 

(and even that would be the best case scenario)

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I'm sorry AMJ, he really MUST be encouraged and convinced to see a therapist.

 

As SincereOnlineGuy correctly suggests, therapy for this kind of problem could stretch on for years, but two things are certain:

 

One - you really should not consider entering into a serious and intimate relationship with this guy, until and unless he does agree to serious therapy with a psychosexual Psychiatrist and

 

Two - you are not, can never be and never should agree to being his therapist, even if it's a role you're taking on, and not something he's asking you.

You are really not equipped to be able to deal with such a huge thing, and frankly? In your shoes?

I'd run a mile. Even 2.

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It's not cold to suggest therapy. You are not equipped to help him with this.

 

And no matter what you do, never never never have children with him. He was raised with some very strange boundaries which would be dangerous for children.

 

Personally, I would absolutely 100% not be in a relationship with him.

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AMJ, I don't mean to be harsh but consider the following:

 

1) He is married.

2) You are in a long distance emotional relationship.

3) He is sexually attracted to his mother, sends her naked photos and recently fooled around with her.

4) You are not asking yourself whether you should be with him but how you can help him.

 

I'm sorry but forget about his therapy. You need to seek help for yourself and dump him immediately. I think you are trying to fix him to avoid working on your own issues. I say this in the kindest way possible, and I truly hope you follow my advice.

Edited by tuxedo cat
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Michelle ma Belle
AMJ, I don't mean to be harsh but consider the following:

 

1) He is married.

2) You are in a long distance emotional relationship.

3) He is sexually attracted to his mother, sends her naked photos and recently fooled around with her.

4) You are not asking yourself whether you should be with him but how you can help him.

 

I'm sorry but forget about his therapy. You need to seek help for yourself and dump him immediately. I think you are trying to fix him to avoid working on your own issues. I say this in the kindest way possible, and I truly hope you follow my advice.

 

I'm sorry OP but I couldn't agree more with this post.

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Yes, he has children. I really was looking for advice about talking to survivors of incest, since this is a forum about abuse. It looks like this is the wrong place to get that type of advice. I found another resource online and will hopefully find information there.

 

I'm not an idiot, I don't think I can "save" or "fix" him. I don't think him and I will ever be in an actual relationship. We will probably never even get to touch each other. This is a person who has been a friend to me and more for over ten years. Now he has told me this really horrible, humiliating secret that he's never trusted anyone else in his life enough to tell, for fear of the judgement that is rampant in literally every single response to my post.

 

If one of your closest friends told you that they were raped by their mother or father, would you disown them? Run 2 miles in the opposite direction? Yes, I have all the same concerns that you each have mentioned. Like I said, I am not an idiot. I do care about him and just want to be supportive or helpful. I thought I could find people who have had common experiences here, since I don't have anyone else to talk to.

 

I've read an article that explains why men who are victims of incest as a child rarely get psychological help, as well as adult men who are victims of rape. I don't think he will get help, but I will encourage him to do so. I'm already in therapy myself but can't bring myself to talk to my therapist about any of this.

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Yes, he has children. I really was looking for advice about talking to survivors of incest, since this is a forum about abuse.

He is not a survivor of incest. He is still very much in the clutches of the abuse.

Perhaps it would have been better if you had titled your tread in the form of a request for assistance, and made it clearer within your post, rather than merely adding a generally-worded, single 9-word sentence right at the end of the post...

 

It looks like this is the wrong place to get that type of advice. I found another resource online and will hopefully find information there.

Actually, I would advise against it. Clearly, there is much you would love to do to support him, but you're never going to receive an ideal response, because he is still in the maelstrom of the situation, whereas you are seeking responses from those who have come through it and left such hindrances behind.

 

 

I'm not an idiot, I don't think I can "save" or "fix" him. I don't think him and I will ever be in an actual relationship. We will probably never even get to touch each other.

So - excuse the question, and please do not for one moment think I am belittling or trivialising this, but - why go to this trouble? You say you don't want to 'fix' or 'save' him. Really, why are you doing this? It's probably better for you to release this connection, and by the mere fact that you know about it - quit sharing this burden.

 

This is a person who has been a friend to me and more for over ten years. Now he has told me this really horrible, humiliating secret that he's never trusted anyone else in his life enough to tell, for fear of the judgement that is rampant in literally every single response to my post.

This is totally untrue and frankly, unfair.

I personally made no judgement whatsoever in my post. There was none intended or implied.

I merely pointed out the fact that this is a condition that requires attention from a professional.

 

If one of your closest friends told you that they were raped by their mother or father, would you disown them? Run 2 miles in the opposite direction?
I have not suggested you do that, but by revealing the situation, you are now implicated.

 

Not knowing, left you in one position Now knowing, changes the entire dynamic of your relationship with him.

 

Yes, I have all the same concerns that you each have mentioned. Like I said, I am not an idiot. I do care about him and just want to be supportive or helpful. I thought I could find people who have had common experiences here, since I don't have anyone else to talk to.
I'm sure everyone here has offered their opinions and counsel with the very best of intentions, however they might have worded it.

But plese don't start getting defensive simply because it hasn't worked out the way you intended. People are people.

 

I've read an article that explains why men who are victims of incest as a child rarely get psychological help, as well as adult men who are victims of rape.

'AN article'...? And the conclusion was....?

 

I don't think he will get help, but I will encourage him to do so. I'm already in therapy myself but can't bring myself to talk to my therapist about any of this.

I would seriously and fervently urge you to reconsider.

This is the kind of information that will eat away at you.

Client Confidentiality is a parmount guarantee, and as I opined, you are in no professional mindset or capability to deal with this issue on your own, and neither should you.

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Wow, well I apologize for my post not being clear. You are being extremely critical of ME, and I'm not sure why. Going so far as to count the number of words in a sentence I wrote...please explain what is the purpose of being my editor? Yes, I've only read ONE article about men who are victims of incest not wanting to get psychiatric help. Excuse me for not dedicating my entire day or week or month to researching this issue at length. If you're aware of more resources I can read, please let me know. Your advice is contradictory in that, you're telling me to run in the opposite direction but also to do more extensive research about this problem, which is really just digging myself in deeper.

 

I am defensive to this notion that he is a bad person and the only solution is just to cut him off and leave him hurt, feeling rejected by me because he was a victim of incest. Maybe I take this judgement personally because I'm also a victim of rape, and I've never felt brave enough to tell a man I've dated about what happened to me. I didn't want to feel the judgement that people here are giving to him. Would it change anyone's opinion if I mentioned that he served his country in the military and endured not one, but three tours in Iraq? That he's now a police officer who spends time after his shifts to buy and deliver pizza to homeless women and their children? Who goes out of his way to help homeless people that the rest of us walk right past and can't be bothered to give $2 to? He goes to church and takes his kids to boy scouts camps? He's not a bad person. Something really bad happened to him, and yes, he's got lots of issues because of it.

 

How lucky for anyone who hasn't experienced this type of pain personally, to be so far removed from it, that your only response is to run in the other direction.

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It's sweet that you want to help him. All you can do is encourage him to talk to someone. He needs serious amounts of therapy.

 

Try not to become too involved. It's not fair for you to take on too much.

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Fleur de cactus

You are here to find advice and you have a good heart to help your friend. I truly believe that the members here will give you more ideas and I hope you will find what you are looking for. It is good that you care about your friend. Since you have a good friendship relationship with him, I think he will be more willing to listen to you. Please encourage him to find professional help. You don't have to run away from him or stop talking to him. You are doing the right thing and you had a good intention when you came here for support. you are holding a big secret and if it was me, I would need help on how to help my friend since this not something you can discuss with anyone. Please don;t be discouraged. Good luck and be strong with your support to your friend.

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You are being way to defensive and twisting posters words and intentions.

 

All you can really do for this guy is encourage him to seek therapy and perhaps recommend some reading materials. You can't play therapist. You are not a professional and if you try to guide him you are likely to cause more harm than good. I know you say that you realize this and that you don't want to fix him which makes me wonder what exactly it is you are looking for regarding this issue. If you know you can't counsel him then why get so mad at everyone who is telling you not to counsel him?

 

Of course I would not tell you to dump a perfectly innocent and platonic friend simply for revealing this secret to you, but this friendship is not platonic. You are having an inappropriate emotional relationship with this married man. That in itself is unhealthy and the abuse element just adds another layer of toxicity to the situation. You are not just an objective friend so all the more reason why you need to step away. Sorry people are not telling you what you want to hear, but they are just being honest with you about their thoughts.

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I am defensive to this notion that he is a bad person and the only solution is just to cut him off and leave him hurt, feeling rejected by me because he was a victim of incest.

 

The problem here with what you are saying is that he 'was' a victim of incest however the reality is that he recently saw his mother and made out with her (he could have had sex with her).

 

The incest isn't in his past it's actually his current reality. It is still by his own admission continuing. He needs some serious therapy.

 

He is a victim and what happened to him as a child certainly wasn't his fault. Perhaps him telling you is a serious cry for help and the best advice you can give him is that he needs professional intervention and to stay away from his mother.

 

He is an adult now (a police officer no less) so the fact that he still continues to return to his mother regardless of the possible repercussions to his marriage and career instead of seeking help or professional counselling previously should tell you about his state of mind (well lack there of) and the issues internally that he has clearly been unsuccessful at dealing with on his own. He clearly has deep rooted issues that have continued into his adult life (for whatever reason he has been unable to break away or find help).

 

I don't think there is anything you can personally do for him unfortunately. You can only encourage him to free himself from the situation with therapy.

 

If he chooses to keep returning to his mother and confiding in you about it (instead of seeking professional help) this could cause some serious difficulties for you, morally (there is an ongoing crime being committed here) and friendship wise.

 

It would be a good idea for you to talk to your therapist so you can understand how you can effectively communicate with him in a firm but supportive manner in regard to seeking help. (I don't think at this point he would willing or able to report her for what she has done).

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The bottom line is this: no matter what relationship you have with him, how wrong it is, how dead-end it is, and how much you are going to be looked down upon from your family and friends for having an affair, the REAL issue to be addressed is that your 'man' is sick in the head. He needs professional help. It's not his fault that his mother and family did this to him. He's a victim.

 

But it's a fair bet that he has, or will, progress from being a victim to being a predator, if he doesn't get mental help. And if he has children, I fear for them. From him. The kind of mental illness he has can, often does, manifest in him needing to continue the cycle.

 

You CAN help him, by finding a way to get him to go for professional help.

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your 'man' is sick in the head. He needs professional help. It's not his fault that his mother and family did this to him. He's a victim.

 

But it's a fair bet that he has, or will, progress from being a victim to being a predator, if he doesn't get mental help. And if he has children, I fear for them. From him. The kind of mental illness he has can, often does, manifest in him needing to continue the cycle.

 

 

I'm going to say this not for myself, but on behalf of anyone else in your life whom you interact with- please be more sensitive when you talk about mental illness. Saying someone is "sick in the head" is EXTREMELY rude. For the umpteenth time, I realize that he needs to work out these issues with a psychologist. I cannot make someone go to therapy. That is not how therapy works.

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You are being way to defensive and twisting posters words and intentions.

 

I know you say that you realize this and that you don't want to fix him which makes me wonder what exactly it is you are looking for regarding this issue. If you know you can't counsel him then why get so mad at everyone who is telling you not to counsel him?

 

Sorry people are not telling you what you want to hear, but they are just being honest with you about their thoughts.

 

Anika, I am allowed to be defensive. I feel like people are unfairly judging someone I deeply care about, and I'm talking about an issue that affects me personally. I am not twisting anyone's words, and will not get into some childish he-said, she-said argument. I'm not here to debate people about things that don't matter.

 

Once again, for the third or fourth time, I came here to ask for advice from anyone who has had experience with incest. Either personally or through someone they know. I'm just asking for help and context to understand where he is coming from. If people want to JUDGE me for asking for this help, I'd rather you keep your comments to yourself. I just want advice that is constructive.

 

So yes, so far, no one has told me "what I want to hear", because not a single response has had anything to do with someone's personal experience with incest. Instead, I've just received a lot of judgement about my involvement with this situation altogether.

 

Finally, I did NOT say that I "Don't want to fix him". You're the second person to nitpick my posts and it's obnoxious. I meant that I know I cannot fix him. I understand that I cannot "play therapist".

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I've posted about this relationship in the Other Man/Woman forum because, he is married. We have a long-distance emotional relationship, which is also obviously a problem. Regardless of what happens between him and I, I do still care about him as a friend very much, and we have been friends for over a decade.

 

A few months ago he told me that he was sexually abused by his mother as a child. He's never told anyone, not a therapist, not his first wife, not his current wife, none of his siblings know. He doesn't think that any of his siblings were abused by her.

 

*He has told you and you are subsequently very concerned. He has informed you that no one else knows, which implies *your* personal responsibility.

For ex: anyone acquiring first aid/crisis training is taught to look someone directly in the eyes, point at them and say....call 911. It is far more effective than shouting it to the wind because shouting makes no one accountable. In this situation, see this for what it is and relax your sense of responsibility. You are distant and not able to effectly interfere. If you did, you could be easily dismissed and explained away. Contemplate why you were chosen and don't flatter yourself that it is because he is more intimate with you.

It is also highly unlikely that he has been so severely abused and his siblings have no knowledge of a toxic/abusive environment.*

 

I've looked online for resources and information to help me have the right things to say to him, and I have encouraged him to talk to a therapist, but I don't think he will. The problem is that it's not like something horrible happened to him as a child, and it's just a bad distant memory. He still desires her, and then hates himself for it. He has sent her naked photos of himself, and she has sent him named photos of herself- recently. They don't have much of a relationship at all at this point, and live far away from each other. Actually I live closer to her than I do to him. But a few years ago he was visiting her, and he said that they kissed and fooled around, but didn't have sex. He says she was abused by her brothers and father when she was a child...so the cycle continues, right?

 

*This is the point that becomes more rare and less relatable to the 'average' abuse victim. Continuing a sexual relationship with his mother into adulthood is not common. Most adult abuse victims are able to recognize the perversity and though affected...detach and seek counsel.*

 

I'm not completely overwhelmed with this information, but being the only person in his life who knows does carry a certain responsibility. Other than suggesting he talk to a therapist, which feels like such a cold thing to say to a person. I'm a huge believer in therapy and personally know that it's the best way to heal from any type of abuse, if not the only way. But I also know how it feels to carry around a painful secret, to finally trust someone enough to tell them about it, and then have that person say- well I can't really help you, you should pay a stranger to listen to this weird ****.

 

I just don't really know how to respond to him still desiring her so much. The fantasies he has about her can get really twisted- and now sometimes involve me! Does anyone have advice about incest and its aftermath?

 

*There is little that you can do for him other than insist he initiate and receive therapy. Please inform him that because you care for him as a human being and friend.....you will have no contact with him until after his third counseling session with a liscenced psychologist. That is what is required in order to maintain even the barest of friendship.

I will assert that you are in over your head in this situation and are being manipulated. You should absolutely discuss this situation with your therapist.*

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Timshel, thanks so much for a considerate response. I probably am being manipulated. I've put up boundaries about being involved in his fantasies with her- as in, telling him no way do I want to be part of them. He really does hate and punish himself for desiring her, I was hoping to hear if this problem has happened to other victims of incest. I do tell him to stop talking to her, block her out, etc. I do tell him that he should try not to fantasize about her. I've read that children who are abused by parents often still love the abuser because they seek their love. We always crave our mother's love, even as adults. If we didn't get enough love from our mothers, we crave it more as adults. I was thinking that his concept of love is skewed because of how she abused him, so maybe he still craves her sexually because that's how she showed her love?

 

Why did he chose to give me this information...well we were talking about low self esteem and I asked if his parents were abusive, and then out came all of this information. He feels guilty about what happened to him, like he deserved it. I said he shouldn't feel guilty...again, I'm a rape survivor so I understand where he's coming from in some ways. I suppose I'm a safe person for him to tell because, like you said, I can't really force him to deal with the problem. Anyway, thanks for your reply.

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Ok. Please reconsider speaking with your therapist about this. There is no harm in doing so and it will help you.

I am sorry for what he has been through and for you. There is only forward or stuck, AMJ, for both of you.

You have to decide, you can't save him. In good conscience, you can't.

Talk to your therapist. In my opinion, this relationship has been dysfunctional for you from the start and is escalating.

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Thanks again. I have a few conflicts of interest with my therapist, so I probably need to find a new one.

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This is a really difficult situation but I would recommend seeing a therapist and encouraging him seeing someone.

 

 

As others have said, he is still very much involved in an abusive relationship with his mother. It's cannot be healthy for him as you've pointed out. And it's not fair for you to be the only support for him through this. You can certainly be there for him but he and you need a bigger and stronger system.

 

 

There are situations in which - you as a friend - can't help. Like it's just not possible. You're either too involved or just not equipped and THAT is so upsetting and terrifying -- I've been there. I watched a friend completely get consumed by his schizophrenia. He stalked our other friend. Tried killing his grandmother - he became convinced she was drugging him. And he's deeply paranoid. He's not the same person. I only say this, because it got to a point where I realized that sitting down and merely being supportive was not enough and that was devastating -- I had never felt so powerless. He needed professional help and medication -- which he got and he's able to function more normally now.

 

 

There is no judgment here. This is a very sad situation all around. I hope your therapist gives you some good advice and you can help your friend get help.

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Maybe he's not looking for help. Maybe he just wanted to tell someone about what is going on in his life. I think he's probably smart enough to know that therapy is out there if he wants it. There's really very little you can do to help him. The truth is, if he's still taking things to the level he does with his mom, then it's doubtful anything will change anytime soon, if ever.

 

Are you attracted to this person? I mean, if a guy told me he was exchanging nude photos with his mother and making out with her, my attraction toward him wound drop into the negative numbers. I can't imagine a bigger turn-off.

 

You're very defensive about this guy but the truth is, this is some very sick stuff that's going on. And no matter what happened to him as a child, he has absolute control over what he does as an adult. He knows this is beyond wrong.

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Yes I know this is all very sick, very dysfunctional. No I am not more attracted to him because of his strange relationship with his mother. Of course I am repulsed by it. I'm distancing myself from him more every day, which is a little ridiculous anyway since there is already nothing but distance between us (he's married, lives really far away).

 

This isn't some guy I just met recently, who decides to tell me about this horribly dark, twisted, revolting secret. This is a man I've known for ten years. He and I have been good friends and supported each other through lots of difficult things, so I value his friendship. Recently he told me about his abuse as a child, and he hates himself for the ongoing issues he has with his mom. He says that he desires her, but then hates himself for it. He has a lot of remorse, confusion, and turmoil about the entire situation.

 

I am defensive because I care about him, and feel like some of this judgement here is unfair. How would you possibly know what it feels like to be molested by your parent, unless it's happened to you? What if the things he's experiencing now are really common? The research I've read all says that men who are sexually abused are very unlikely to get help, much less so than women. Which means that there is less research and information to even understand how this impacts them in the long-run. I've read that it's common for men to feel lots of shame about being abused by a woman as a child, because they sometimes feel physical pleasure and then hate themselves for it.

 

He has said that he wished he knew how to help himself, how to make himself stop desiring her sexually, but he doesn't know how. Yes, I've encouraged him to find help in therapy. But as someone who's been to therapy, it doesn't always work so easily. It's not like you go into a few sessions with the first psychologist you meet and get healed.

 

This problem has already made him feel like a complete lunatic, and I feel defensive because I think a victim of abuse needs compassion and acceptance, and a community of support that tells this person not to blame themselves. Victims of abuse almost ALWAYS blame themselves and end up with very low self-esteem. It's a very hard thing to overcome, and I think people in general need to learn to be more compassionate. It's surprising to find people in the "Abuse" section on this site posting things that couldn't be father from compassionate.

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