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He is abusive but blames me for it


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Old 23rd October 2013, 3:11 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Babolat View Post
So I read the entire post. pteromom, no disrepect at all, your posts here are great, but there is nothing about this relationship that is solveable.
I know this relationship isn't solveable. I was speaking directly to the scheduling issue. THAT is solveable. It certainly doesn't fix all the other issues.
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Old 24th October 2013, 9:57 AM   #62
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Hey guys,

We visited the counselor last week (who had actually read this thread, because I gave her the link to explain what happened) and when we saw her, she wanted to schedule an individual appointment with him so they can work on the anger issue. He seemed perfectly willing, so that's good. We will then have another session together right after.

As time goes by, I feel like I'm detaching from him. I'm having a hard time getting past all that he's done. Sure, I made plenty of other mistakes, but that doesn't justify his actions.

I think he has noticed this. At first when he moved out, he seemed fine with it, but as of the last week, he's been wanting to stay over and he's been more loving. He also seems kind of depressed and unmotivated to do... well, anything, aside from spending time with me. This is really unlike him. On the plus side, there haven't been any more abusive episodes, but I think that's partly because I haven't given him reason.

I'm sick of arguing with him over petty stuff that doesn't matter though. And even more sick of him blowing everything out of proportion.

A couple of days ago, he was at my place and wanted to run an errand that would take two hours. However, there was a midnight deadline for his college homework, and I knew if he went on that errand, he wouldn't have time to complete it. I brought it up to him as gently as I could and suggested he run his errand on the weekend, since it wasn't time sensitive but his homework was.

Suddenly, he became upset and started swearing. I pointed out that there was no necessity to act like that, and he proceeded to tell me I was being controlling. Uhm, ok? I remained calm and tried to make my point, but he wasn't having it. So, instead of trying to make him understand, I just I told him I was done arguing and I went to watch TV. Shortly thereafter, he came to sit with me. He eventually "saw the light" and got his homework done... barely on time. Of course, I was right, and if he had gone, he would never have finished it.

He just can't ever look at the things I'm saying objectively and evaluate whether there's any merit in them. According to him, I'm always controlling, stand-offish or disrespectful. It doesn't matter how gentle my tone of voice is, and how measured my words are. Frankly, I'm sick of editing myself to prevent him from becoming upset. This is not who I am, and it never ends well anyway.

Honestly, I don't expect much anymore. It feels like we're just two very different people, and all the conflict and power struggle comes from those differences. I am not going to change for him. I don't want to change things that I perceive to be good things, just because he doesn't like them. Likewise, I'm sure there are women out there who would like him more than I do. I care about him still, but the man he's turned out to be is definitely not who I wanted.

So, that's how things stand right now.. I plan to continue going to counseling with him, but I'm skeptical at best.

Thank you all for the support.

-A
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Old 24th October 2013, 10:22 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Arabella View Post
Hey guys,

We visited the counselor last week (who had actually read this thread, because I gave her the link to explain what happened) and when we saw her, she wanted to schedule an individual appointment with him so they can work on the anger issue. He seemed perfectly willing, so that's good. We will then have another session together right after.

As time goes by, I feel like I'm detaching from him. I'm having a hard time getting past all that he's done. Sure, I made plenty of other mistakes, but that doesn't justify his actions.

I think he has noticed this. At first when he moved out, he seemed fine with it, but as of the last week, he's been wanting to stay over and he's been more loving. He also seems kind of depressed and unmotivated to do... well, anything, aside from spending time with me. This is really unlike him. On the plus side, there haven't been any more abusive episodes, but I think that's partly because I haven't given him reason.

I'm sick of arguing with him over petty stuff that doesn't matter though. And even more sick of him blowing everything out of proportion.

A couple of days ago, he was at my place and wanted to run an errand that would take two hours. However, there was a midnight deadline for his college homework, and I knew if he went on that errand, he wouldn't have time to complete it. I brought it up to him as gently as I could and suggested he run his errand on the weekend, since it wasn't time sensitive but his homework was.

Suddenly, he became upset and started swearing. I pointed out that there was no necessity to act like that, and he proceeded to tell me I was being controlling. Uhm, ok? I remained calm and tried to make my point, but he wasn't having it. So, instead of trying to make him understand, I just I told him I was done arguing and I went to watch TV. Shortly thereafter, he came to sit with me. He eventually "saw the light" and got his homework done... barely on time. Of course, I was right, and if he had gone, he would never have finished it.

He just can't ever look at the things I'm saying objectively and evaluate whether there's any merit in them. According to him, I'm always controlling, stand-offish or disrespectful. It doesn't matter how gentle my tone of voice is, and how measured my words are. Frankly, I'm sick of editing myself to prevent him from becoming upset. This is not who I am, and it never ends well anyway.

Honestly, I don't expect much anymore. It feels like we're just two very different people, and all the conflict and power struggle comes from those differences. I am not going to change for him. I don't want to change things that I perceive to be good things, just because he doesn't like them. Likewise, I'm sure there are women out there who would like him more than I do. I care about him still, but the man he's turned out to be is definitely not who I wanted.

So, that's how things stand right now.. I plan to continue going to counseling with him, but I'm skeptical at best.

Thank you all for the support.

-A
Last comment, then I will not be able to look at this post again as you are in the same cycle all woman in this position are.

Counseling with a therapist who does not specialzie in this type of male behavior is not going to help this man. READ THE BOOK. This is NOT just about anger...it is so much bigger than that. Anger Management will not help him. PERIOD.

Sorry for the rant, but it sickens me to see men like this, and a woman trying to justify it and look for signs of hope. There are none. And the very rare few who do change, it takes YEARS to change and you need to be out of the picture during that time.
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Old 24th October 2013, 10:26 AM   #64
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Hey guys,

We visited the counselor last week (who had actually read this thread, because I gave her the link to explain what happened) and when we saw her, she wanted to schedule an individual appointment with him so they can work on the anger issue. He seemed perfectly willing, so that's good. We will then have another session together right after.

As time goes by, I feel like I'm detaching from him. I'm having a hard time getting past all that he's done. Sure, I made plenty of other mistakes, but that doesn't justify his actions.

I think he has noticed this. At first when he moved out, he seemed fine with it, but as of the last week, he's been wanting to stay over and he's been more loving. He also seems kind of depressed and unmotivated to do... well, anything, aside from spending time with me. This is really unlike him. On the plus side, there haven't been any more abusive episodes, but I think that's partly because I haven't given him reason.

I'm sick of arguing with him over petty stuff that doesn't matter though. And even more sick of him blowing everything out of proportion.

A couple of days ago, he was at my place and wanted to run an errand that would take two hours. However, there was a midnight deadline for his college homework, and I knew if he went on that errand, he wouldn't have time to complete it. I brought it up to him as gently as I could and suggested he run his errand on the weekend, since it wasn't time sensitive but his homework was.

Suddenly, he became upset and started swearing. I pointed out that there was no necessity to act like that, and he proceeded to tell me I was being controlling. Uhm, ok? I remained calm and tried to make my point, but he wasn't having it. So, instead of trying to make him understand, I just I told him I was done arguing and I went to watch TV. Shortly thereafter, he came to sit with me. He eventually "saw the light" and got his homework done... barely on time. Of course, I was right, and if he had gone, he would never have finished it.

He just can't ever look at the things I'm saying objectively and evaluate whether there's any merit in them. According to him, I'm always controlling, stand-offish or disrespectful. It doesn't matter how gentle my tone of voice is, and how measured my words are. Frankly, I'm sick of editing myself to prevent him from becoming upset. This is not who I am, and it never ends well anyway.

Honestly, I don't expect much anymore. It feels like we're just two very different people, and all the conflict and power struggle comes from those differences. I am not going to change for him. I don't want to change things that I perceive to be good things, just because he doesn't like them. Likewise, I'm sure there are women out there who would like him more than I do. I care about him still, but the man he's turned out to be is definitely not who I wanted.

So, that's how things stand right now.. I plan to continue going to counseling with him, but I'm skeptical at best.

Thank you all for the support.

-A
Leave, now, do not see this man again. You too, are having some serious issues here, trying to "fix" him. You do not need to help this man, help him see the light. PLEASE read the book I suggested and also read "Codependency No More".

I wish you well.
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Old 24th October 2013, 11:18 AM   #65
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Leave, now, do not see this man again. You too, are having some serious issues here, trying to "fix" him. You do not need to help this man, help him see the light. PLEASE read the book I suggested and also read "Codependency No More".

I wish you well.
I do plan on reading the book you suggested. It'll do me good to get some perspective.

You know, I think you're right. I do have issues. I probably should've shut up and let him fail his class... but I can't just sit idly by when I see a clear issue in the near future that can be prevented. I guess it's actually one of the things that makes me good at my job (IT project manager)...

He apparently hates when I point out these time management issues to him, but he knows that I'm usually right. He just would never admit to it. Why react like that though? Why not just talk about it reasonably and then let it go? I don't understand why everything has to be a power struggle with him.

I've made progress in that regard. I'm a very strong-willed person, and I used to exhaust myself emotionally with things like this. I no longer do that, because I've realized that my standing my ground is pointless. He's incapable of seeing the merits in my arguments, and he will keep going until he wins it. He doesn't care about resolving the matter at hand... just about winning.

I don't understand so many things about him. His need to be in competition with me, his inability to take my suggestions (or even consider them), his abusive behavior despite claiming to love me, his lack of desire for sex with me (not that I care anymore), how he dislikes the best things about me.

None of this makes any sense to me. I'm SO disappointed in him
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Old 24th October 2013, 1:27 PM   #66
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I guess it's actually one of the things that makes me good at my job (IT project manager)...
Well, been there done that, now I am the IT Development Manager, so I hear ya!
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Old 25th October 2013, 3:15 AM   #67
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I worry for you.

This relationship is clearly abusive emotionally if not physically yet and you are pregnant, but you continue to see this man.

Do you know the problem with even continuing to see him? Do you know why everyone suggests you cut your losses now?

Emotional abuse leads to physical abuse. Trust me, I know.

How he's exploding now over essentially nothing and swearing, calling you names, and demeaning you? It's only a matter of time before he lays his hands on you.

Call me whatever you wish, but I don't believe any amount of counseling or reprogramming can help someone that is abusive.

I also wouldn't let this man alone with your child after she's born. People who are abusive (emotionally or physically) to their significant other are abusive to their children.
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Old 25th October 2013, 4:02 AM   #68
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Arabella,

He's the younger version of my husband.

If you find my threads over the last 3.5 years (regarding my marriage) to be particularly whimsical and fun, then have at it. But make sure your daughter goes into a soundproof box every time you ask him to pass the salt at dinner.

I am willing to bet $20 that his mother is overbearing and use(d/s) a harsh tone to shame him growing up.

He was saying and doing things that were practically verbatim to how my own husband would act and reason it out.

When your newborn comes along, you will find her much easier to deal with than living with HIS temper-tantrums. I guarantee it. And I believe in having a traditional family.

I will go against the grain though and say that I do believe in change and that he most likely can and actually probably will change. But often men like this don't change without some serious consequences to do so. Not talking to him about it, or trying to get him to understand. But simply by having the door to you welded shut and being a "weekend Dad."

Then that might wake him up. BUT don't expect that to mean that your relationship with him will repair. Most people with these abusive issues don't "get it" until it's too late to save their primary relationships.

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Originally Posted by Arabella View Post
I do plan on reading the book you suggested. It'll do me good to get some perspective.

You know, I think you're right. I do have issues. I probably should've shut up and let him fail his class... but I can't just sit idly by when I see a clear issue in the near future that can be prevented. I guess it's actually one of the things that makes me good at my job (IT project manager)...

He apparently hates when I point out these time management issues to him, but he knows that I'm usually right. He just would never admit to it. Why react like that though? Why not just talk about it reasonably and then let it go? I don't understand why everything has to be a power struggle with him.

I've made progress in that regard. I'm a very strong-willed person, and I used to exhaust myself emotionally with things like this. I no longer do that, because I've realized that my standing my ground is pointless. He's incapable of seeing the merits in my arguments, and he will keep going until he wins it. He doesn't care about resolving the matter at hand... just about winning.

I don't understand so many things about him. His need to be in competition with me, his inability to take my suggestions (or even consider them), his abusive behavior despite claiming to love me, his lack of desire for sex with me (not that I care anymore), how he dislikes the best things about me.

None of this makes any sense to me. I'm SO disappointed in him
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Old 25th October 2013, 4:34 AM   #69
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He apparently hates when I point out these time management issues to him, but he knows that I'm usually right. He just would never admit to it. Why react like that though? Why not just talk about it reasonably and then let it go? I don't understand why everything has to be a power struggle with him.

He's incapable of seeing the merits in my arguments, and he will keep going until he wins it. He doesn't care about resolving the matter at hand... just about winning.

I don't understand so many things about him. His need to be in competition with me, his inability to take my suggestions (or even consider them), his abusive behavior despite claiming to love me, his lack of desire for sex with me (not that I care anymore), how he dislikes the best things about me.

None of this makes any sense to me. I'm SO disappointed in him
Oh Arabella. I wish you didn't experience the bolded!

Isn't that the worst!? The things you feel you shine at, the things you hoped someone else would see about you and appreciate get crunched under his foot and made to be something detestable?

So awful. It's so awful to have someone think low of you at every turn. So exhausting to feel like they don't have faith in you either.

When my husband went to Crazy-La-La Land, I actually put A LOT of effort into salvaging things for him and accessing treatment for him etc. A LOT of effort. Insane-o effort. I viewed it as a mental illness and responsibility as a spouse.

He really crapped on me about it. Acted like I had "insulted" him or tried to "control" him. I honestly was disgusted. I had gone to some pretty extreme measures (well, that makes it sound like I was cooking Meth in an RV with Walt and Jesse or making homemade porn or something. I wasn't doing anything THAT extreme). And it helped him but he still just crapped on me about it.

For years. Then finally I had enough. I just honestly would rather have gone and lived in the streets being a bum than supporting this one for another 7 years. I started the separation/divorce talk after he got into one of those "have an explosive argument or dishes or shoes or some stupid trivial thing."

I waited until he chilled the eff out and just outlined that I really had enough. I just wanted out. I couldn't even talk about dishes with him anymore. He was ridiculous and I couldn't deal with the tantrums. And how he invalidated my efforts to help him and stay in the marrîage.

He told me that "he didn't even realize our marriage was in crisis and he thought I was just really emotional." I don't think I've ever facepalmed so hard in my life.

I just was totally shocked. Five years of cheating, arguing, him taking off, him getting into my prescription pills that I caught on two different occasions, his lack of effort sexually, my 7000+ posts on loveshack, us losing our daughter over his BS (which he dealt with at that time, he is an excellent Dad), marital counseling, him spending the night in the drunk tank during that same period, me taking his name off of the lease and separating our bank accounts, us regularly sleeping in separate rooms and separate floors, me taking anti-depressants that made me explosive........and he didn't think there was a crisis!?

Truly, honestly, I actually believe him. I know his mother pretty well and she's such a tornado that I think he thinks this is "normal."

It's only over since getting our daughter back that there's been more meaningful examination into the fact that I didn't go my own distance to "win" or to "not have to work on myself." I actually did it because I didn't want our family to go through all of that pain. I didn't want my daughter to miss her Dad and I didn't want him to feel worthless and vanish because of the toxic shame. I never thought it would've even come close to losing us our daughter for those five months.

But Arabella, despite all of the lunacy and instability, my husband is still an extremely rare case to actually have stuck with the work he's put in. To be completely, cruelly frank: his framework is so screwed from childhood I am not entirely sure how much CAN be done for him. He's done a lot. He really has and I give him credit. But he was a NIGHTMARE. I had over three years with my husband before he gave any signs of having deep-seated and co deeming issues like these. Your guy is already showing it full-blown. And they only get worse after exposure.

One last thing: he's lazy and sex-avoidant. (Your guy. Mine was very much so.) 90% of the time I've ever read that on loveshack, it's been one thing: porn.

I know everyone probably thinks I want us all to live like the Amish with no electricity and dresses down to the ankles. But I swear, virtually every time I've read: "we don't have sex that often and it's like he's doing it half-assed when we do it," it's freaking porn. They sit there, do nothing, get stimulated and call it a day. Sigh, what has humanity become.
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Old 25th October 2013, 2:31 PM   #70
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dreamingoftigers,

Your posts resonate with me.

What you said about his mother is actually very interesting to me... because it wasn't his mother, but his father. He was a typical Chinese authoritarian parent who overdid discipline. As he grew older, they engaged in some very serious conflict. He was physically abusive towards his father (who had been abusing him in childhood), and to a lesser extent, his mother. Although it eventually stopped, I think it caused some damage in him. The fights continued in school, where he was suspended several times. In the beginning, he actually described himself to me as a very angry person... but back then, he was really the most calm person I'd ever met. Seemed hard to believe.

The sex issue is irrelevant right now because we clearly have bigger problems to worry about, but you're right about that also. He lied to me about porn in the beginning of our relationship, but eventually came clean and stopped using it. Our sex life improved dramatically for a while. Then the relationship got bad, and our sex life completely tanked. I don't think he's back to watching porn though. We're both career technical people, and he would have a hard time using any of our devices for porn without me detecting it -- if I was looking for it... which I'm not.

I believe that the sex issue is, to him, a matter of control. Just like everything else. He knows I need sex three times a week to be satisfied. He can do with once a week. Result? He turned me down every single time outside of when HE wanted to have sex. Or, if he gave in, it was mediocre at best. In fact, except for a few months after he stopped using porn, our sex life has always sucked. I have a very high sex drive and I'm very adventurous. He's not, and he clearly doesn't care about what I need. I can't really remember a time during our relationship where I was truly satisfied.

And now he's surprised that I'm not feeling attraction towards him and have no desire for sex with him. Ha. That's somewhat ironic. When he could've had me anytime, he didn't care... but now that it's gone, I think it bothers him because he can't use it against me anymore. I don't make him feel desired anymore, and even if he never cared about having sex or satisfying me, he sure seemed to like knowing that I wanted him.

Anyway... enough about that.

I've been reading "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans. I have also purchased the book that Babolat suggested, and I plan on finishing both over the weekend.

It's been very enlightening so far. It tells all about how abusive people undermine their partners. There actually IS a method to their madness... it's all a very well documented pattern. I just couldn't see it because my mind doesn't work like his. So, I kept trying to understand what the hell was I doing wrong... and trust me, I know I've done a lot of wrong. But not as much as he would have me believe.

It's come to the point where he's told me it's basically all my fault. He can't stand my personality and expects me to change to make our relationship better.

I'm outspoken and good at communicating my feelings and opinions. I don't lie because I don't fear the consequences of my actions. I am always honest, and I express myself clearly and specifically. He never has to wonder what's on my mind, or whether I'm upset, because I tell him and I also tell him what I expect from him. Those are things that a lot of men complain about... yet he can't stand it.

He says I'm too blunt, and I'm disrespectful and abrasive. He says I have an attitude and I need to tone it down. He says THIS is why he behaves the way he does.

Well, guess what? Other men actually love that. They find it refreshing, to have a woman who has a mind of her own and isn't afraid to speak up. But to him, it's a threat. He's actually told me that he always feels like I'm attacking him, and that I try to impose my views on him. That has never been the case. What happens is that he perceives me standing MY ground as a slight to him. Because I didn't change my opinions to match his, I'm being disrespectful.

I'm so sick of walking on eggshells and feeling unappreciated. Sure, there are things about me that I could improve (like everyone else, right?), but I don't want to change the core of who I am. I LIKE ME. If he doesn't like me, that's his problem, not mine. To this, he tells me that he's not going to change either, then, because he likes himself too. Except I'm not abusive, and he is... but of course he doesn't see it that way. It's all just an innocent reaction to the things I do to him, and that horrible attitude I have. Yeah, ok.

We have counseling today. It's going to be a double session, one by himself with the counselor (to talk about his anger) and the second together. I'm going to be bringing the book I've been reading, and I may bring up the things I've learned from it. I don't know what his reaction will be, but I doubt it will be good. I'm feeling so angry and disappointed in him right now...

Tomorrow is my birthday. Last year, he completely ruined it for me. He was supposed to make it up to me this year. I can already see it coming. We will have a fight during counseling today (or after, as we often do) and tomorrow will be ruined. Am I a cynic for believing this, or just a realist? I can't tell the difference anymore.

Feeling in a "funny" mood today, but ever thankful of your feedback. Really, thank you.

-A
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Old 25th October 2013, 2:39 PM   #71
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You are a very intelligent and perceptive person, and you seem to know yourself well. I think you are 100% on the right track here, and now I just hope you find the strength to walk away.
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Old 25th October 2013, 2:42 PM   #72
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He apparently hates when I point out these time management issues to him, but he knows that I'm usually right. He just would never admit to it. Why react like that though? Why not just talk about it reasonably and then let it go? I don't understand why everything has to be a power struggle with him.
Because he has a "Reality One" mindset - if you haven't gotten to that part in the Verbally Abusive Relationship yet, you will. It resonated very strongly with me, and changed the way I think about interacting with Reality One people. In Reality One, every interaction has a winner and a loser, so what is important isn't solving the issue, but winning the interaction.

The part you wrote about him being physically abusive with his parents made me actually suck in my breath.... you know it's only a matter of time until things escalate with you, right? He's a ticking time bomb.
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Old 25th October 2013, 2:53 PM   #73
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Because he has a "Reality One" mindset - if you haven't gotten to that part in the Verbally Abusive Relationship yet, you will. It resonated very strongly with me, and changed the way I think about interacting with Reality One people. In Reality One, every interaction has a winner and a loser, so what is important isn't solving the issue, but winning the interaction.

The part you wrote about him being physically abusive with his parents made me actually suck in my breath.... you know it's only a matter of time until things escalate with you, right? He's a ticking time bomb.
Yes, exactly! The concept of two different "realities" in the book totally made sense to me. I'm only halfway through the book, but now it finally clicked in my head. We never perceived things the same way to begin with!

As far as the abuse... honestly, his father abused him first. As he grew older, he did what many young men in his situation do, and he reacted to defend himself. The conflict escalated as he and his father struggled for control. The situation with his mother was only because she tried to intercede and got caught in the "crossfire" so to speak.

Yeah, the situation would probably have escalated with me also, in time. I do believe that the fact that I'm pretty strong for a woman, outweigh him by a good bit, and have the ability to use weapons gives him pause. If he ever comes at me, I will not hesitate to defend myself. I'm anything but a helpless victim, and he knows that.

I think right now things are ok because I just can't be bothered to pursue any arguments so everything is peaceful. He still has small outbursts over trivial things, but I literally just ignore him... because what's the friggin' point of engaging him?

Kinda holding my breath about counseling today. I wonder if the counselor will be able to get through to him at all in their session.
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Old 25th October 2013, 3:26 PM   #74
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Still thinking of you, Arabella. It sounds like you are seeing him in a clearer light slowly.

He's spending nights at the house?
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Old 25th October 2013, 3:35 PM   #75
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Abusers always blame everyone except themselves. Classic behavior. It's part of the very problem of their abusiveness, and a major reason why they rarely change.
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