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how can I win her back?


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Old 27th September 2011, 5:09 PM   #61
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But above all, stop the groveling. Women HATE weak men. They despise them. They cheat on them. They kick them out. Women are biologically presdisposed to seek out the stronger men, goes back to cave man days. When you start groveling, and apologizing, and looking like a hangdog who doesn't deserve his bone, you start to look pathetic in her eyes.
It was all a good post, but I agree with this paragraph in spades! It's a better worded version of what I was trying to say before - BE YOU. Don't be some sniveling weakling. You made mistakes - lot's of them. Now be a man and pick yourself up and show her how strong you can be - that you allowed yourself to be weak and abuse drugs. That you took the cowards way out - instead of coping with your emotions you turned them outward and abused those you loved. Now you're more a man than you ever were - you're coping with your emotions head on and and you're proving to her that whatever good she saw in you is truly there and will come be at the fore from here on out.

You're doing great...concentrate on the positive right now more and less on the negative.
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Old 27th September 2011, 8:15 PM   #62
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you gals are awesome...<internet hug> I appreciate your feedback because I know you don't have to do this; I wait every day to read a reply from you; if this works out in the end, I have you 2 to thank for keeping me afloat in the middle of my ocean of emotions; it hasn't been easy but you 2 take a little off the edge of my pain

thank you for giving me hope; I am definitely staying focused; trying to stay collected as much as I can but I find it tough at times

she just called and asked how the kids are doing; was in the middle of giving them their baths; fed them and now they're watching a movie while enjoying popcorn while I clean up around the house; when they are around I don't feel weak; it's when SHE's around; it's like I am scared of her....ok, I am scared of her lol; afraid to say the wrong thing

it's the feeling of losing it all that scares me...my marriage, my kids (seeing them every morning and night), and her...don't care about the assets (that's all material shtuff)....being essentially alone

I never knew how little drugs meant to me until all this happened; and I never thought that the drugs turned me into such a monster; still sober to this day (it's easy) and still haven't cursed/yelled since she broke the news

I do grovel a lot and she has noticed it too; dang, I keep thinking I can hide but my emotions, I wear them on my face it seems
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Old 27th September 2011, 10:40 PM   #63
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It's time for some perspective. You weren't born joined at the hip. You haven't been with her every single day of your life. In fact, most of the most important moments of your life (walking, sitting, talking, learning in school, graduating, first job, first date, first 'time') likely had nothing to do with her.

You CAN survive without her. Obviously you don't want to, but you can. So step back off that ledge, my friend, and see her for what she is: someone who CAN make your life better, but is not essential for continued survival.

Now, start treating her with this in mind.
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Old 27th September 2011, 11:51 PM   #64
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It's time for some perspective. You weren't born joined at the hip. You haven't been with her every single day of your life. In fact, most of the most important moments of your life (walking, sitting, talking, learning in school, graduating, first job, first date, first 'time') likely had nothing to do with her.

You CAN survive without her. Obviously you don't want to, but you can. So step back off that ledge, my friend, and see her for what she is: someone who CAN make your life better, but is not essential for continued survival.

Now, start treating her with this in mind.
I know this but it's just so hard to believe and live it. When and if the D happens, I will have no choice but to face this. But for now, I want to hang on. I don't want my kids to grow up in a D. I just can't allow it. She will have to make that decision. And when and if she does, she will have to make it based on everything that has transpired. In other words, she gave up on a marriage where she was abused, but she also gave up on a marriage where she saw change. She always says that I brought this upon us, but ultimately she will be the one putting the nail in the coffin. All because she was unable to look at the positive that came out in the end and most importantly because she was unable to forgive. I strongly believe that in a marriage there should always be room to forgive, especially when the changes are evident. She says she forgave me so many times, which may be true although I was not aware of it, but this the first time I am asking her directly....and she hasn't up to now. If time is what she needs, as hard as it is for me, I can wait years. I heard a good line recently:

What are our vows worth, if they don't cost us anything?

I may not have been religious then, but I still believe in every word I said at the altar. Whatever happened to "for better or for worse"? Now, if she was still being abused and I was still doing dope, I would understand her desire to get out. But in this case, what is her reasoning?

Maybe that is why the D hasn't happened yet. She wants to make sure that her decision is the right one. That I will go back to my old ways, if given enough time. But she is wrong. There is no turning back. I am more determined than I've ever been about anything in my life, to stay the course and treat her right. As far as my ability to re-integrate myself into the family, there is no denying my actions. It is she that is trying her best to alienate me, to keep me out of the family picture. It's almost as if she is trying to destroy the family, not fix it. For so many years she wanted to see these changes, and now that they are happening, it's too late??? why give up now?
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Old 28th September 2011, 2:15 AM   #65
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I will say this - if she chooses to leave now it will be more out of fear than anything else. I was so afraid that staying with my H would be giving more of myself than I could afford to lose...but I eventually did it anyway. I took a risk...not all women will take that risk. Tbh - I have been told by some women that I am stupid for taking such a risk. Many people who abuse drugs or people revert back to these things - we hear about it all the time. It just means you're going to have to be all the more patient with her fears.

Stay the course!!! Live in the basement...create a friendship...learn who YOU ARE (without drugs). Become the man you WANT to be and the one you NEED to be. Do this first for your children - be the man who they will need and love and want to be with if your marriage doesn't work out. Then - become the man she needs. But only in as much as you're able to become - don't become someone you're not.

This is a long and somewhat painful journey you're on Confused...but you know what? We all have the long painful journeys in our lives. I like to try to stay positive about things...there will be something positive that comes of this - even if you can't save your marriage. There already is lot's of positive coming from this! You're sober and clean! You're finally getting to enjoy your children!

I'm glad we can be there to help you out - just glad my random ramblings help at least a little
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Old 28th September 2011, 9:25 AM   #66
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I will say this - if she chooses to leave now it will be more out of fear than anything else. I was so afraid that staying with my H would be giving more of myself than I could afford to lose...but I eventually did it anyway. I took a risk...not all women will take that risk. Tbh - I have been told by some women that I am stupid for taking such a risk. Many people who abuse drugs or people revert back to these things - we hear about it all the time. It just means you're going to have to be all the more patient with her fears.

Stay the course!!! Live in the basement...create a friendship...learn who YOU ARE (without drugs). Become the man you WANT to be and the one you NEED to be. Do this first for your children - be the man who they will need and love and want to be with if your marriage doesn't work out. Then - become the man she needs. But only in as much as you're able to become - don't become someone you're not.

This is a long and somewhat painful journey you're on Confused...but you know what? We all have the long painful journeys in our lives. I like to try to stay positive about things...there will be something positive that comes of this - even if you can't save your marriage. There already is lot's of positive coming from this! You're sober and clean! You're finally getting to enjoy your children!

I'm glad we can be there to help you out - just glad my random ramblings help at least a little
sometimes I lose focus....I get down on myself and the negative thoughts take over; I feel like the monster that I was, unable to comprehend my past actions and stuck in that vacuum of time; it is then that I re-read yours and turnera's posts....and they lift me back up

it's a long journey alright....but what better one to be on than one where you re-discover yourself...I am happy to be on it; it's never too late for me to do this
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Old 28th September 2011, 10:12 AM   #67
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so how do I stop the groveling? how do I get over the fear of losing it all? or being alone? is there a pill that I can pop? lol....I understand this but part of me does not; don't know why I cannot consistently stay positive in my mind; such an imbalance

I wonder if the drugs are part of the reason; it's not even been 5 months since I cleaned up so my guess is there is residue still in my system that is affecting my emotional stability and coherence; I can still recall the roller coaster of emotions I was on during all these years; I would have maybe a few good days and then something would trigger my depressive state; it's like I am bipolar; one high followed by one low constantly; never been tested for it because I believe I am in control of myself and don't want prescription pills for it; it's been like a tug-of-war...back and forth, back and forth...all these years; maybe I am not in control but I don't want to submit to a lithany of pills to address this

nowadays, although I am sober, I have incredibly positive days where our future makes perfect sense and I feel the family's radiance; the goal and purpose of my actions is in perfect symbiosis; then, there are the unbelievably negative days where I could sink into the ground with my thoughts alone; I get dragged down by my past and I feel like I am chained and doomed, unable to break free; the guilt just tears me apart and keep thinking that I will live with this for the rest of my life; I rationalize that I cannot change the past, and only affect the present, yet I persist in those thoughts continually; I can still see myself lashing out at the kids and my wife; every detail of those moments is magnified tenfold, like under the microscope with a 100% zoom lens; it brings tears to my eyes; how could I do such things to those that I love?
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Old 28th September 2011, 11:36 AM   #68
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she gave up on a marriage where she was abused, but she also gave up on a marriage where she saw change.
That's why I've been trying to get you to understand how a woman thinks, operates. Look up walkaway wives. It's a well-established phenomenom, been going on forever, has something to do with how a woman 'puts up' with things and, psychologically, slowly starts falling out of love, one abuse moment, one neglect at a time. Until, there simply is no love left, and she leaves. The fact that she's not gone yet tells me she's not quite there yet.

Did I explain the love bucket yet?
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Old 28th September 2011, 11:41 AM   #69
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so how do I stop the groveling? how do I get over the fear of losing it all? or being alone? is there a pill that I can pop? lol
Have you tried yoga and meditation yet? That's your best bet for achieving balance. You've got time on your hands. Find some classes or tv shows and start practicing.

The groveling you stop by writing down what you will and won't accept in life (not talking about her, but more deepdown things, like you won't lie to please someone; stuff like that). Whenever you feel like you're being asked to compromise on a core belief, stop yourself and say no. On the more surface things, think back to when you were dating. After all, that's what you're doing - trying to date her all over again. If you want to compliment her, compliment her; don't shove it through your 'will I tick her off' filter first; start being honest.
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Old 28th September 2011, 12:05 PM   #70
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Have you tried yoga and meditation yet? That's your best bet for achieving balance. You've got time on your hands. Find some classes or tv shows and start practicing.

The groveling you stop by writing down what you will and won't accept in life (not talking about her, but more deepdown things, like you won't lie to please someone; stuff like that). Whenever you feel like you're being asked to compromise on a core belief, stop yourself and say no. On the more surface things, think back to when you were dating. After all, that's what you're doing - trying to date her all over again. If you want to compliment her, compliment her; don't shove it through your 'will I tick her off' filter first; start being honest.
never heard the term walkaway wife but it fits her to a tee...and from what I am reading on it, this can be reversed...if she is willing to accept help for it; well, I am doing my part which is the only thing I can control

and you're right, she's not gone yet so clearly there is hope

can't seem to find much info on love bucket; something about a woman's 7 desires? would appreciate a synopsis on it

ok, now I go write down the list of what I accept and won't accept in life; this will require some deep introspection
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Old 28th September 2011, 2:22 PM   #71
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Sorry, love bucket is what my DH calls it, from the analogy. It's 'love bank' from Willard Harley, and the His Needs Her Needs line of thinking. I think I've described it to you before. It works like this:

You have a bucket when you first meet. She has a bucket. You date and you start filling love points into her bucket. If you 'get' her precisely and know exactly how to meet her top Emotional Needs (ENs), you fill her bucket with love. She feels love for you. (doing the EN questionnaire from marriagebuilders.com tells you what her top ENs are)

On the other hand, no one's perfect. There are going to be things you do that annoy her: your Love Busters. Like doing drugs. Each time you do an LB, you poke a hole in that bucket. A little of the love she's stored in there for you leaks out the hole. If you make a bunch of LBs, you get a bunch of holes. Pretty soon it looks like swiss cheese.

In most cases when the walkaway wife waits and waits and waits for the husband to wake up and stop LBing her and start meeting her ENs, that bucket has been poked so full of holes that no matter WHAT you do to meet an EN, she won't care. There is no love left. Everything you do just slips right out all those holes. She has moved from love to hate to apathy; once she reaches apathy, it's almost always too late. You will NEVER be someone she could be attracted to again because she's seen it all - all your warts, your LBs, your lack of caring, your selfishness...and she has NO faith that you could ever change.

However, if she's not at that point, the very first thing you would do is STOP the LBs. You're doing that, but you have to be more specific. If she would fill out the LB questionnaire, you would hit a goldmine of information on what NOT to do - what to STOP doing. It could be huge, it could be tiny. Like the Qtips my husband leaves around after he uses them, expecting me to clean them up - HUGE LB for me. Such a tiny thing.

So, you stop the LBs so that if you fill any ENs in the bucket, the holes start disappearing so the love stays. The next step is to get more info on who she is, what she wants out of life, what her dreams are, what her top ENs are. The EN questionnaire is big for that; different for each person and any EN (or LB) is valid. Learn them and start being the ONE person in her life who meets those ENs for her. That's why it's so important to stay in the house - you can't meet these ENs if you're not living there (at least not easily).

If you continue on this path, the holes in the bucket disappear, the love starts filling up again, the trust returns, and she MAY reach a point where you start looking attractive to her again.
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Old 28th September 2011, 2:24 PM   #72
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Speaking of attractive, are you making sure you look good, smell good, dress great every day?
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Old 28th September 2011, 4:44 PM   #73
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ok, I get the love bucket; but I still feel it too premature to get her to fill out any LB questionnaire; I have looked it over; I need a hint from her that she is willing to give me a chance; so far I haven't got any; I don't want to bug her with this because she will say once again that there is no chance for us and that it's futile; this will only frustrate her; it would be akin to bringing up our relationship; she has asked for space and this is what I want to give her at this time

the reason I am still at home is because of the surgery; she wants to wait for me to recover before proceeding...at least that's what she said a few months ago; remains to be seen if she has it in her to throw me out then, as soon as I am fully functional again and especially after all the changes she is seeing

and yes, my personal hygiene has improved; I used to shave once a week, if that; now, it's every second day for the last few months; I brushed my teeth sparingly because it affected my dope high; now I brush once before bed (even though we don't share it anymore) and once in the morning; she is aware of my hygiene since we share the bathroom

as she said a while back, she sees all these changes but they do nothing for her; I am hoping time will make her see otherwise
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Old 28th September 2011, 7:02 PM   #74
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she used to always txt me be4 getting on the plane and when she landed; now she doesn't even bother anymore; she used to call from her destination just to make small talk or say goodnight; that don't happen either no more

it's just so hard to see any positive signs coming from her

anyways, just fed the kids and now we are about to play; gotta keep busy and what better way
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Old 29th September 2011, 1:22 PM   #75
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she came home last night and didn't even make eye contact when I said hi to her; it's like I am invisible; but when the kids came downstairs to greet her, she just couldn't take her eyes off them; it hurts so much when she does this; she was full of kisses and hugs for them but nothing for me; so I didn't even try to give her a hug, as much as I wanted to; just leave her alone; I figure when she's ready for it, she will make a more concerted effort of showing some kind of hint that she is more receptive to me

we played briefly with the kids just before putting them to bed and then she got upset that the little one kept asking for her instead of going to sleep; I tried to soothe the child but when they barely see their mother all week long, can you blame the child for wanting an extra few minutes with her? they miss her and she can't understand it; she is tired, exhausted from the traveling, from the chaos at work, and she wants to wrap up her day; but the kids don't see it that way; so I told her to just give them another 5 minutes together and forego the official bedtime; bend the rules a little, it's ok; I also spent another few minutes with them to ease the transition to sleep; it worked and all ended well; I am still amazed how calm I am nowadays in any given situation; I wonder if she notices her level of frustration around the kids, compared to mine; I find it so easy to take care of them; sometimes I think that if I were to keep the kids, it would be easier for me to walk away from the marriage; how would she feel being alone and divorced?

before going to bed, she started talking about work again and I listened, offering little but more presence support; the politics and red tape only add to her workload; such is the nature when you are no longer just the average worker in the company; she says she doesn't know why she puts in so much effort in the face of all this turmoil; and I tell her that it's in her nature to be a hard worker and that is how she got to where she is; she lay there on the bed, laptop open and running late at night, and looking tired and I still find her so gorgeous; she had one leg on top of the bed cover and I so wanted to give her a foot rub but I didn't dare; I know I am chicken but it is too early; she is too wrapped up in her problems with work for me to shift her attention to us; I still feel honored that she is able to initiate conversation and just vent her frustrations
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