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Policy on individual and group bashing/berating.


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Old 17th March 2016, 10:45 AM   #46
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I really do appreciate the work the mods do on this site (and find it disappointing, that the owner of the site has abandoned it.)


But I do find it quite strange how on a site intended for, and seemingly filled almost completely by adults is moderated so heavily for language. While other forums across the internet which are filled largely by youth, don't have anywhere near the restrictions.
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Old 17th March 2016, 11:39 AM   #47
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My personal belief is the site guidelines reflect the site owner's personal system for collaborative discussion and, when he founded the site and designed his 'house rules', the internet, in general, was a more collaborative and polite place. Support for that belief can be found both in the content of his guidelines, how he arranged them, and in his public and private (to the moderation staff) statements over the past 18 or so years. When he started the site, he was a relatively young person himself.

If a member or group of members wants to run the numbers, offer the site owner cash to buy him out, then fire us and rejigger LoveShack.org to bring into current compliance with the social times of today, that's definitely an option. Until then, as long as Paul is paying the bills, we do it his way.

I also, as an edit to the starting post here, posted a link to how all this came about. Reading that discussion, members can see how LoveShack was back when there were only one or two moderators and a lot of stuff got by us, stuff called 'abusive' in the discussion thread title. That and more private communications, and an increase in the moderation staff, fostered what became policy more closely adherent to the original guidelines of the site.

Currently, Loveshack has some 60-70,000 active members as defined by the site owner's parameters. In any given month, we may deal with a few dozen who violate the rules particular to this policy. Thousands of other members post, discuss their problems or successes without using such language, and move on in their lives. The rules impact only the few who, well, don't care about or care for rules, either incidentally or globally. I respect their choice. They are free to ignore the rules and do what they wish. When we catch them, or they are reported, then we make the choices we're empowered to make. That's how things go.
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Old 17th March 2016, 1:20 PM   #48
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Thanks William especially for volunteering on moderating the site and being most of the time in a good mood.

Regarding what the poster above and you just said.. Paul is still paying the bill yet is gone? I don't get this... the point being, when he stops paying the bill will he sell a lemon or LS will be gone ? This has happened to other sites before, usually in the best circumstances the Founder/owner leaves his legacy to the staff still around (mods, super mods) and they takeover legally...
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Old 18th March 2016, 8:01 AM   #49
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That is correct, Paul has not been active on LS in some time.

We do not know his intentions going forward, so we are doing our best with the resources we have and the guidelines that were left for us. ~T
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Old 20th March 2016, 7:06 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PegNosePete View Post
I sometimes use phrases such as "he doesn't give a carp", "she doesn't give 2 short ships about you", or similar. I've never regarded this as using intellect as a weapon or attempting to circumvent moderation, but rather as a family-friendly way of using a well-known phrase. Sure, I could say "he doesn't care about you" instead, but sometimes I feel the use of a more emphatic phrase is more helpful to the OP especially if they are in denial.
Another of our newer moderators answered this but I'll give you my perspective as the oldest moderator working here. I'll use some words from the site owner to assist, words commonly received by members who violate our language policies.

Language & decency: Use language that not only reflects proper terminology, but that is in no way vulgar, profane, obscene, pornographic, demeaning, or pejorative to the subject being described or those contributing to the discussion

Hence, if your original word would have been covered under this language 'reminder', which is right at the top of the points category under those which immediately moderate or ban, or the software would have 'bleeped' it, then the site owner evidently has decided this language is over the line and moderation should become involved.

Have you done this in the past? No doubt. I could easily search your account and check that. Did you get away with it? Yep, probably. I could search your reminder list and view what we've contacted you about. Past results are no guarantee of future performance and, as this new policy proves up, things can change at any time, this time for cause, but also possibly for no reason at all other than that's what the site owner wants.
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I've never been nudged or FR'd about this but reading this thread, it seems this kind of thing is not allowed? Should I desist from using this kind of phrase?
In my opinion, you cared enough about this to post in this thread so take in the discussion, the linked thread which, last year, impelled the policy, and make your own decisions regarding how you interact. Each member is empowered to interact how they choose. We only come into play after, mostly when other members alert us, though increasingly by review of random threads, generally those regarding subjects moderation has experience with violating our guidelines. If we actually read 1% of what is posted in any given day, that would be a very busy day for us. 99% of stuff, unless reported, matches up with your experience of 'never been nudged or FR'd'. I think I posted prior in this thread regarding this aspect and suggested that members, if they wish to hang their posting privileges on getting by us with stuff, OK, do that. We ask and prefer that members follow the rules but realize all that is is asking and hoping. The rest is up to you.
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Old 21st March 2016, 10:37 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocorico View Post
i can't really agree that there's no victim. The "victim" is *all* such people covered by the offensive term, who find it offensive. If a Jewish person calls themself (an offensive term used to insult Jewish people) in the presence of other Jewish people, who find the term offensive, is it a "victimless crime" just because the person using the term is themselves Jewish? Is the offence felt by the other Jewish people then irrelevant? I'd say no - same way I feel about any use of racist, sexist, homophobic etc insults used by anybody. They're offensive, don't use them.

If you (generalised you) want to beat up on yourself, get creative about how you do it. There is no need to mobilise millennia of structural violence and prejudice to make a point about your own shortcomings.
This posting brings up a good point, something I term self-flagellation inviting abuse. I occasionally see this in thread titles and starting posts, where members who post them clearly invite abusive postings or call themselves names otherwise covered under our berating guidelines.

What usually occurs in such cases is, upon detection or report, the invitations are edited out and the member sent a nudge to refrain from such making such requests or using such words in the future.

A common example is, generically, 'I've been a [prohibited word]; don't hold back, let me have it.' as preamble or post-script to an otherwise topical and conforming post.

I spent some time yesterday reading some old posts in this very forum, public posts by the site owner and former head moderator, accessible by any member, where they discuss, in the past, how they wanted the tone of the forum to be. I also read, later, when only the head moderator was here by himself moderating, how exasperated members had become with the tone of LoveShack and that effect on discussion.

In this discussion I've noted, a number of times, the mention of 'we're all adults here'. Indeed, we are all adults, socialized into a society, in most cases, of law and order and civility in interacting with our fellow society members. Watching the tone of current events, it appears adults soundly denounce the incivility, violence, and abuse currently being broadcast over the internet and airwaves and in our own lives and, yes, that denouncement includes foul language. Since the guy who founded this place is also an adult who felt the same way, apparently, his rules of discussion mirrored, and mirror, the general sentiments of society. Do they mirror all of society? Nope! This thread is a perfect example, as are the reports we deal with daily. Some segments of society vehemently disagree with his, and our, vision of how discussions should proceed. Currently, we're choosing this path of moderation of discussion and are always open to alternative viewpoints as long as they are offered in a conforming manner, meaning their tone and language meet forum guidelines.
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Old 21st March 2016, 8:42 PM   #52
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I think it is more than just "we are all adults here so the language shouldn't be an issue".

IME the language allowed tends to set the tone for what are acceptable interactions (not just language used, but overall) between members. If disrespecting language is allowed, that implies overall (right or wrong) that disrespecting interactions are allowed. It is just an overall tone to potentially be avoided for a forum, IMO. I don't know of course, but I wonder if that was Paul's goal.

Either way I think it is good that moderation didn't take the easy way out and just allow it, but instead decided to maintain that integrity.

I have done that on my own (much much smaller) internet forum (I am a tyrant about language allowed in posts) and have found that it results in a more respectful community overall - and have had many people say that to me.

It would have been much easier on moderation to just let it go. The reason this site is still here after 17 years is that no one took the easy way out.
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Old 1st May 2016, 8:41 PM   #53
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As there has been a bit of push back on this policy over the last couple of weeks, I wanted to try and clarify a few things about how it is being implemented.

* As has been stated before, this list is not all inclusive, anything that can be considered as berating is eligible for sanction at any time. We will not be compiling a mile long list of offensive terms here.

*With very few exceptions, context and intent are irrelevant to this policy. Quoting something you heard someone else say or was said to you will be dealt with the same way as if it had been said directly. If you type it, you own it.

*The above also applies if you are quoting another member. If someone uses a berating term and you use the same term in your reply, you will both be flagged. There is no he/she did it first.

I hope that clears up some of the questions we've been getting. ~T
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Old 22nd June 2016, 1:54 PM   #54
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Question re: unacceptable words

Is it possible to add the term "wifey" to the lit of derogatory terms that are eligible for sanction? It is quite offensive to a lot of people.
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Old 22nd June 2016, 2:01 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmacbride View Post
Is it possible to add the term "wifey" to the lit of derogatory terms that are eligible for sanction? It is quite offensive to a lot of people.
I completely agree and second this suggestion. This term is more offensive to me than most of the words already on the list.

Thank you!
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Old 23rd June 2016, 7:13 AM   #56
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While I am not sure that falls within the scope of our berating policy enough to ban the term completely, you are free to alert on things that are not on the list if you feel they warrant sanction so they can be reviewed under all of our guidelines.

I'll move this to our berating policy thread for further discussion and get the opinions of the other mods ~T
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Old 23rd June 2016, 1:07 PM   #57
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I reviewed the most recent usages of the term 'wifey' since our policy was enacted last year and can find none which were proffered in a neutral to endearing way and, in general, the word is defined broadly as derogatory so my opinion would be to include it.

Remember, whenever moderation includes language deemed to be berating, in this case to women, its use is uniformly prohibited, regardless of content or intent, so don't use it, even if in casual use or because someone else used it. You type it, you own it.

We have six moderators so my opinion as original William is one of six. If the others predominantly agree, then we'll send out notifications on future use as with other terms covered by the policy. The only people substantially affected will be repeat offenders.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention and, as ~T suggested, please do alert on any language suspected to be in violation of our policies.
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Old 22nd October 2016, 9:22 AM   #58
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As a reminder, although the list will be updated over time, the list at the beginning of this thread is not all inclusive but an example of what we are looking for. Similar terms not shown are still eligible for infraction.

Terms "hoe" and "skank" have been added. ~T
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Old 7th December 2016, 1:54 PM   #59
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How about adding calling betrayed spouses and their marriages "dingleberries" be added tot he list?

To me, referring to them as a piece of feces that sticks to someone's rear is berating, insulting, and incredibly rude.
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Old 7th December 2016, 9:30 PM   #60
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I think one of our moderators handled that issue and IMO such language falls among the terms I've already covered in this thread, e.g. POS (piece of shyte) related to OM/OW/MM/MW or in general. This goes back to my original assertion that some members enjoy using their intellect and education as a weapon to attack moderation and the site rules, as well as other members and, well, OK, I guess they can do that but we've been removing members lately for this kind of stuff so actions do have consequences.

We got a lot of reports today and from what I saw there were three other moderators processing a lot of posts besides the work I did shutting off the posting privileges of various members pending further review. Keep those reports coming and expect this to be an ongoing problem. I'd love for it to take a holiday during the holidays but doubt it will. Oh, well.
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