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Why Are People So Abusive? [update]


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Old 6th February 2014, 5:00 PM   #1
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Unhappy Why Are People So Abusive? [update]

<Link to 2017 content start>

I do not understand why people are so abusive in this forum. They personally attack others, without provocation. Look at what a mess my recent thread about deciphering 2 text messages became.

It was relentless.

How are attacks like these allowed within the forum rules?

Why are they allowed, then the victim gets banned or points for fighting back?

I am at a complete loss here.

I own a forum. I am on many other forums. In none of these places are personal attacks tolerated like they are here. In the other places, we point up, then ban people who attack others, personally and off topic.

My recent thread asked about two texts and what the girls might mean, to make sure i didn't misread (turns out i did). Yet, instead of answering the post, I endure an entire day of really mean, bitter old ladies berating me. Threatening physical violence. Calling me a liar.

This is not the way to run a forum. This behavior should either not be tolerated, or it should be a free for all, where i can defend myself.

Why are these people allowed to attack others without penalty?

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Old 6th February 2014, 5:12 PM   #2
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My best suggestion would be to start your own interpersonal relationship forum, hire moderators and manage it in the style you choose.

Currently, there are two daily moderators who oversee thousands of members and posts and have full-time lives elsewhere. I'm currently online because I'm eating lunch in the middle of my work day. My billing clock, the thing that pays my bills, stops when I stop working so volunteer work on LoveShack doesn't keep the power on here. LoveShack gets my attention when I have the time to give it, and that is generally daily.

The site owner currently has a slate of moderator candidates he's choosing amongst and any future help is dependent on *his* actions. As a site owner, I trust you understand what that means. Action starts at the pointy end of the stick.

As Robert and I can document that we've addressed every report which comes in to us, and also can document work far beyond that small part of what we do here, if you're seeing guideline violations everywhere, report them and we'll address them. If you think we're doing a bad job, here's two guys to tell your story to:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/members/5-tony/

That's the head moderator. Note that he's member number 5 out of over 300,000 members

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/members/2-paul/

That's the current site owner. He's member number 2.

Currently, the owner is here generally once a month. The head moderator checks in every few days and *does read* member PM's and does respond to them.

Thanks for your feedback!
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Old 6th February 2014, 6:37 PM   #3
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OP- I get what you're saying, although it's a fine line. I think at times all of us have had a bad day and could possible come of mean or rude. It usually isn't intentional. Also there are topics that are very emotional.

With that, I think the mod team does a really good job with those who are continuously rude.

Possibly the point moderation would like to make is, don't do as another does, but do as you know to be right. Allow that person to spout a bit- we all need to at times. I'm not wording this right concerning the point mods would possibly make, but don't know how to word it any different

Many have cut me a lot of slack, and eventually I changed most wording to sound a bit better. Many have had to call me out on certain things. It's hard, but for the most part it's been helpful in my learning journey.

I haven't read the thread you are speaking of, but am curious now I think I can safely say that there is a bit of experience, specifically on this site, and am learning to step away from the keyboard if there is even a thought of being uncool. I'm finding it much better to read a particular post and if there is anger attached (no matter where the anger is coming from), step away for some time and re-read that post and 9 times out of 10 it's my filter that is off (or emotions).

Hey OP hang in there….
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Old 6th February 2014, 6:47 PM   #4
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You want to see abusive? Go spend some time on a wedding planning website called TheKnot. Wow are [they] mean!


People here are passionate. Not all of them are tactful. If somebody physically threatened you, they should be banned.


That said, your posts struck a nerve for some people. I made some negative judgments about you based on what I read in that thread but since it's your life, I chose to not post. FWIW, I think both texts were hints & sort of open invitations. Your were given info about their activities & were welcome to shop up in various public places where they would probably be. Nothing more. What might happen once you got there was up in the air, the way most people prefer it . . .loose & non-committal.

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Old 6th February 2014, 6:53 PM   #5
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I wouldn't complain about the work of moderators in general. I do it elsewhere and it is thankless volunteer work. That you do it at all is a blessing for everyone here.

I definitely don't need another forum... ha ha ha

I suppose the trouble i am having, as an individual, is not being allowed to fight back when attacked ( this has been made very clear to me by the moderation team and I respect the rulrs).

Yet, at the same time, all these personal attacks are ok, or slipping under the radar.

I'm sure you keep up with the flagged posts, but in most instances across the web, it is the attacker that is penalized. To put it into loveshack terms, it would be like prosecuting a rape victim.

In each instance today, I did not start something with any of the attackers. They came into my thread and started fights. Several of them. See, these people usually have a pattern of behavior that is quite evident over time. Most forums deal with the attackers directly, nit the person responding to the attack.

In respect your culture, but am also pointing out common practices.

I will continue to attempt to walk this very fine line between defending myself from attacks and being a tattle tale, making work for you by reporting the attacks. I hate to do that.

Thank you for your response.



Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post
My best suggestion would be to start your own interpersonal relationship forum, hire moderators and manage it in the style you choose.

Currently, there are two daily moderators who oversee thousands of members and posts and have full-time lives elsewhere. I'm currently online because I'm eating lunch in the middle of my work day. My billing clock, the thing that pays my bills, stops when I stop working so volunteer work on LoveShack doesn't keep the power on here. LoveShack gets my attention when I have the time to give it, and that is generally daily.

The site owner currently has a slate of moderator candidates he's choosing amongst and any future help is dependent on *his* actions. As a site owner, I trust you understand what that means. Action starts at the pointy end of the stick.

As Robert and I can document that we've addressed every report which comes in to us, and also can document work far beyond that small part of what we do here, if you're seeing guideline violations everywhere, report them and we'll address them. If you think we're doing a bad job, here's two guys to tell your story to:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/members/5-tony/

That's the head moderator. Note that he's member number 5 out of over 300,000 members

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/members/2-paul/

That's the current site owner. He's member number 2.

Currently, the owner is here generally once a month. The head moderator checks in every few days and *does read* member PM's and does respond to them.

Thanks for your feedback!

Last edited by theothersully; 6th February 2014 at 6:56 PM..
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Old 6th February 2014, 10:18 PM   #6
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As an advisory to members, questions and comments here are exactly that, questions to and comments on the site, its administrators and general functionality. We don't allow threads in this forum to become pissing matches, either between members or between members and moderation.

If members do want the site more tightly moderated, we can do that. All we need is the directive from the site owner and I can wear out the ban button and feel pretty darned good about it. However, it's not a free for all for moderators. We have bosses and they tell us what they want and we do our best to put it into practice.

Members may not have noticed, but recently the site owner changed 'infractions' to 'friendly reminders' and 'warnings' to 'nudges'. He felt more friendly language would be better received and appear more positive. So, now, we 'remind' members of our rules rather than 'infract' them for disobeying them. That's a tone the site owner set. If a more punitive tone is desired, then the site owner is the one to set that tone. Complaining to us is like preaching to the choir.

I noticed this thread already received at least one 'friendly reminder' and we also have a few deleted postings. I just came on duty so our other moderator must have processed those earlier. Moderation has been at work here.

In closing, my experience as a moderator has found that people like it when others they don't particularly care for are moderated and high five the moderators for that but cuss the moderators when their behavior is moderated. Hence, my take-away is we can't please everyone so we'll please the site owner and ourselves. If you suddenly find the site moderated by completely new people and we're gone, then you can presume that we didn't work out. Not a problem for me. I've got other moderator jobs to fulfill and a forum of my own to run, in addition to real life. Hopefully, Robert and I have been helpful during our stay.

Have a nice evening.
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Old 7th February 2014, 3:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post
As an advisory to members, questions and comments here are exactly that, questions to and comments on the site, its administrators and general functionality. We don't allow threads in this forum to become pissing matches, either between members or between members and moderation.

If members do want the site more tightly moderated, we can do that. All we need is the directive from the site owner and I can wear out the ban button and feel pretty darned good about it. However, it's not a free for all for moderators. We have bosses and they tell us what they want and we do our best to put it into practice.

Members may not have noticed, but recently the site owner changed 'infractions' to 'friendly reminders' and 'warnings' to 'nudges'. He felt more friendly language would be better received and appear more positive. So, now, we 'remind' members of our rules rather than 'infract' them for disobeying them. That's a tone the site owner set. If a more punitive tone is desired, then the site owner is the one to set that tone. Complaining to us is like preaching to the choir.

I noticed this thread already received at least one 'friendly reminder' and we also have a few deleted postings. I just came on duty so our other moderator must have processed those earlier. Moderation has been at work here.

In closing, my experience as a moderator has found that people like it when others they don't particularly care for are moderated and high five the moderators for that but cuss the moderators when their behavior is moderated. Hence, my take-away is we can't please everyone so we'll please the site owner and ourselves. If you suddenly find the site moderated by completely new people and we're gone, then you can presume that we didn't work out. Not a problem for me. I've got other moderator jobs to fulfill and a forum of my own to run, in addition to real life. Hopefully, Robert and I have been helpful during our stay.

Have a nice evening.
William, it almost sounds like a done deal, meaning you and Robert are expecting to leave?
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Old 7th February 2014, 3:48 AM   #8
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This site has a lot of strong women who won't hesitate to mother you if they feel you're doing something unhealthy for yourself or for other people. I think it just comes with the territory and a lot of times they can be a very valuable asset.

I post some stuff in the political forum that a lot of them don't like and I've found pretending to care about their opinion and redirecting the flow of the conversation, in essence fathering them when they're trying to mother me, has a much better outcome than trying to fight back. I get what they're trying to do and I'm grateful they care enough to take the time to try and correct my behavior. So I don't really feel the need to punish them back per se. At the end of the day there's a million ways you could end up screwed sully doing what your doing with all these super young women who don't seem that invested so don't be so hard on the women here if they try to get you to stop through non-polite means. Trust me, I know what they say can burn but they're just caring about you in their own way.
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Old 7th February 2014, 9:00 AM   #9
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For general consumption, members might find the sticky thread at the top of this forum to be a great read, relevant to this subject of abusive postings:

Posting to engage rather than preach

This was published a decade ago when LoveShack was a mere fraction of its current size and had a magnitude greater amount, from my perusal of the site staff areas, of consistently working site staff. It was a young and energetic forum.

Now we have two moderators and our head moderator who work regularly and we face the same thing our administrator wrote about a decade ago, except with an internet that reaches nearly everyone on the planet and a site that handles thousands of visitors a day.

Like I said in my first posting in this thread, the person at the pointy end of the stick is responsible for how things go. We try to keep him updated on what we experience and what we hear from members, like this thread. The rest is up to him.

As I forgot to answer the thread starter's title question, I'll offer that now:

People are abusive because they can be and are attracted to forums such as this like wolves to the paddock of lambs for an easy meal. They do it for entertainment, they do it for retribution, they do it because they're in pain and for a million other reasons we'll never know. Many, even when banned, keep coming back and coming back, day after day, month after month, year after year, doing exactly the same thing. It's what they do. It's who they are. The internet, anonymity and a world-wide audience has given them a voice. Consequences are meaningless.

Pureinheart, to answer your question, Robert and I, as far as I know, are not going anywhere. However, I cannot speak for the site owner so I won't presume to. We'll continue here, hopefully helping LoveShack to be that place to engage rather than preach, for as long was we can.

Thanks for reading.
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Old 7th February 2014, 4:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post
For general consumption, members might find the sticky thread at the top of this forum to be a great read, relevant to this subject of abusive postings:

Posting to engage rather than preach

This was published a decade ago when LoveShack was a mere fraction of its current size and had a magnitude greater amount, from my perusal of the site staff areas, of consistently working site staff. It was a young and energetic forum.

Now we have two moderators and our head moderator who work regularly and we face the same thing our administrator wrote about a decade ago, except with an internet that reaches nearly everyone on the planet and a site that handles thousands of visitors a day.

Like I said in my first posting in this thread, the person at the pointy end of the stick is responsible for how things go. We try to keep him updated on what we experience and what we hear from members, like this thread. The rest is up to him.

As I forgot to answer the thread starter's title question, I'll offer that now:

People are abusive because they can be and are attracted to forums such as this like wolves to the paddock of lambs for an easy meal. They do it for entertainment, they do it for retribution, they do it because they're in pain and for a million other reasons we'll never know. Many, even when banned, keep coming back and coming back, day after day, month after month, year after year, doing exactly the same thing. It's what they do. It's who they are. The internet, anonymity and a world-wide audience has given them a voice. Consequences are meaningless.

Pureinheart, to answer your question, Robert and I, as far as I know, are not going anywhere. However, I cannot speak for the site owner so I won't presume to. We'll continue here, hopefully helping LoveShack to be that place to engage rather than preach, for as long was we can.

Thanks for reading.
Thanks William and that's great to hear

The bolded paragraph really communicates what I wanted to say to OP, but deleted it due to going off in too many directions. My wording was just all off.

At first this made me angry and caused a feeling of being "attacked", this goes for any forum. After receiving some very wise council I was able to overcome most of the feelings, they still pop up from time to time.

This thread has been very helpful, as it provokes healthy thought processes.

OP, speaking specifically of the paragraph bolded, I would say some of these people are hurting really bad. So much so that there is a need to take the control they lost back. I always wonder if they're like that in person and something says yes they are. Some may have been abused severely- we just don't know.

Possibly the worst thing we can do is respond to that particular behavior.

This brings to mind those who provoke and button pushers. I had an exbf who got off on this type of habitual behavior and I fed right into it. I didn't understand it, but learned real quick…it blew my mind. He loved to receive reactions and it didn't matter whether they were negative or positive. I tell you, it felt like my mind was being twisted into a pretzel and by the end I was so jacked up, forgetting what proper behavior was.

After stepping back, I see that he was hurting desperately and taking medications that made this worse. That's another aspect- how many of these online predators are on meds legal or illegal?

IMO most don't even understand what they're doing…I'm not saying they are not accountable, just unaware.
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Old 7th February 2014, 5:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaius View Post
This site has a lot of strong women who won't hesitate to mother you if they feel you're doing something unhealthy for yourself or for other people. I think it just comes with the territory and a lot of times they can be a very valuable asset.

I post some stuff in the political forum that a lot of them don't like and I've found pretending to care about their opinion and redirecting the flow of the conversation, in essence fathering them when they're trying to mother me, has a much better outcome than trying to fight back. I get what they're trying to do and I'm grateful they care enough to take the time to try and correct my behavior. So I don't really feel the need to punish them back per se. At the end of the day there's a million ways you could end up screwed sully doing what your doing with all these super young women who don't seem that invested so don't be so hard on the women here if they try to get you to stop through non-polite means. Trust me, I know what they say can burn but they're just caring about you in their own way.
This is the key Gaius. This is what I had to overcome- it's hard because human nature seeks justice. I haven't perfected what you are speaking of, but it's getting better.

The "mother" part…yup that's me all the way! I get myself into sooooo much trouble because of that with people I know and my kids. Sometimnes it just can't be helped- it's like the words are coming out and I'm thinking, "ok you can shut the hell up anytime now", and the mouth just keeps going
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Old 7th February 2014, 5:15 PM   #12
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Read this from Reader Digest, "Quotable Quotes" when I was a kid:

The kindest word in all the world is an unkind word unsaid (can't remember the author)
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Old 7th February 2014, 5:46 PM   #13
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I suppose the trouble i am having, as an individual, is not being allowed to fight back when attacked ( this has been made very clear to me by the moderation team and I respect the rulrs).
As hard as it is sometimes, best way to deal with it is to use the alert us key and ask for the rude or mean comment to be removed. or, (this can be hard too) completely IGNORE rude and mean posters, focus only on the advice you find helpful and supportive.
Anela and Emilia like this.
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Old 8th February 2014, 6:10 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by pureinheart View Post
This is the key Gaius. This is what I had to overcome- it's hard because human nature seeks justice. I haven't perfected what you are speaking of, but it's getting better.

The "mother" part…yup that's me all the way! I get myself into sooooo much trouble because of that with people I know and my kids. Sometimnes it just can't be helped- it's like the words are coming out and I'm thinking, "ok you can shut the hell up anytime now", and the mouth just keeps going
I hear that pure. And I actually still do punish the men but the women I mostly forgive. Unless it's blatantly obvious they're just being disrespectful for no reason. Which doesn't happen all that often around here to be honest. At least to my face.

As far as the alert us button, I know it's a suggestion the moderators often give but when you're like sully, dealing with the same people over multiple threads that have a problem with what you're doing it might be more beneficial to try to charm them in some way. Involving moderation might just make them like you even less and find new and more passive aggressive ways to attack you. I think I'm pretty well aquainted with the main person he's complaining about and reporting her to moderation will in no way blunt her strong opinion on the topic.
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Old 8th February 2014, 6:22 AM   #15
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Two 'blunt' responses which violate our guidelines of civility and respect earn the member at least a week's worth of suspension, so reporting postings does have benefits. Further, each member has a tab called 'Friendly reminders' that we can quickly scan and, if they have a history of such sanctions and/or suspensions, they can be processed to be permanently banned. In addition, should the member be reported and a quick scan of their posts show obviously non-compliant behavior, whether reported/sanctioned or not, they can be immediately suspended or banned. This happens most often with previously banned members.

However, if members don't report such postings and presume moderation actually reads every one of thousands of postings each day, then such posters rarely or never come to our attention.

As an example, a member posted in public yesterday about another member 'whimpering to moderation' and was immediately suspended and subject to ban. We just don't tolerate that kind of behavior. However, if it hadn't been caught while I was scanning a thread due to another report, it would have gone unnoticed as one of those thousands of posts per day we never read. That one thread took nearly 30 minutes to clean up, unwinding quotes and editing posts and issuing sanctions and making deletions. That's *one* thread; a thread we'd never have read if not for a report.
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